the headlines on arch international new research shows delays to cancer treatment in the u.k. due to the corona virus could cause an extra 6000 deaths we speak to a man who only discovered he had advanced cancer when he finally got a much delayed scan. it. was not the nose i knew words to put or a few. words to describe. serbia sees a 5th day of violent protests over the government's decision to impose a curfew after a surge in cases. in

france and the appointment of 2 new ministers sparked outrage from women's rights groups one of the men has been accused of rape while the other used to be the lawyer of controversial clients. you can find those full stories and lots more over on our website r.t. dot com will be back with a full round of up to the minute news in about 2 hours time right now though it's going underground stay with us. time after time so we're going underground as a united nations report reveals the global hunger has been rising steadily for the past 5 years amidst a nature nation soaring wealth gap a pandemic and the 2 weapons continue to be used in conflict despite calls from the secretary general for. global ceasefire coming up in the show has covered 19

continues to dominate the news we remember a time when it wasn't a coronavirus vaccine that the u.s. government was paying big pharma for but l.s.d. we investigate the usa so-called poizner in chief city gottlieb around the cia's top secret mind control program m.k. ultra which arguably sowed the seeds of today's clandestine operations or around the world and they're all overseas students in the usa about to be deported because of coronavirus through no fault of their own we reveal a loophole that could save students from the violence of the united states immigration and customs enforcement agency accused of multiple abuses at the u.n. claims made violates international law all the civil war coming up in today's going underground but 1st this pharmaceutical giants in a race to be the 1st to peyton de corona virus vaccine subsidized by the taxpayers of superpowers back in the so-called cold war the united states was paying big drug companies for a very different reason to manufacture l.s.d.

for the cia mind control project known as m.k. ultra the new book boys are in chief by former new york times foreign correspondent stephen kinzer sheds light on m.k. ultra and the man behind it sidney gottlieb he joins me now from cape cod in massachusetts stephen welcome to going underground before we even get to this amazing book your reaction to this $40000000000.00 pentagon money appearing to go into the next coronavirus relief package apparently your country needs you have $35.00 b.'s of a junior class attack submarine whatever that is and some kind of directed energy weaponry to target china there seems to be no aspect of public policy including how care in the united. doesn't become somehow the property are. it's true that in the bill or so. you were corona virus we find all these military programs the horrors. talked about you know they were justified. i

i this concept that everybody seem to share you know that the world the freedom loving people that everywhere they see an imminent threat there was so dangerous how horrific in its scope that we must temporarily put a fi some of our priorities and some of our ethical and moral principle but we'll certainly get back to those very soon as the price of the crisis never seems to end although communism is over as a book even though there's always terrorism there's china. the search for enemies in the united states is real let us just tell me who sydney gottlieb is given the directive of the cia maybe your current secretary of state pompeo that alone as jeanne aspel now running the cia may not even even heard of sydney going to leave before this book emma. was running one of the most important secret project in the history of the united states is identity was totally unknown to the outside world even inside the i.a.e.a.

there are only a vague idea of what i'm doing actually this guy had a license to kill issued by the us government i concluded after doing all the research their way into this book that he not only was the poisoner in chief as i have but he really was the most powerful under the legal america of the 20. now you make a lot of allegations against him i'm going to say although we can't defame the dead . he said in a court case he couldn't remember things couldn't remember any of kinds of things you talk about in the book back in 83 died in 1909. over here the statue of churchill is being attacked by black lives matter protest has just take us back to when churchill one to bio weapons so during the 2nd world war they knew what it for sure job you can convince by intelligence

reports which were later proven to been false the nazi government was planning to arm some of it the missiles or raiding london with biological warfare weapons therefore churchill not having the facility to radiate out their weapons that frankly ron paul. for him tens of thousands of interact. he would hold in readiness to counterattack against germany so russia's not agreed to do that and he ordered the us army to begin a secret project to create the anthrax and they were being built in a factory in indiana when the war ended so it was sure urgent request to roosevelt based on what turned out to be false information put the united states and really the western world on the path for biological weapons

and i'm going to get to the cia's recruitment of nazis nazi doctors in a 2nd but again the context here we're talking about is. korea of britain the united states maybe have killed a 5th of korea's population in the korean war you say in the book that the cia thought. release us soldier is this supposed to communism their apparent support could only be explained by mind altering drugs so what i was working through is of this project m.k. ultra of the cia mind control project at the center of my book one of the questions they kept emerging in my mind was what led reese people in the early cia to believe that mind control was real why did they spend 10 years destroying so many lies in the effort to try to find a way to destroy human minds online place it there is play

i think there are 2 reasons one of them has to do with cultural conditioning they have all the books in the movie sherlock holmes story the end around post story about mind control and note that i think subconsciously a lot of these people that generation the generation that ran the early cia were affected by the other and began to lose the order between fiction and reality but then there were a couple of specific episode. that felt sort of as not at all ready for allies so i was the one you mention in which. american prisoners of war returning from korea after the end of the war or in many cases to assign statements criticizing aspects of life in the and i ate some has confessed to going to many more primes in korea a few have said they had dropped by a logical bob the north koreans of the united states is always never happened how

could they have said these things the only explanation that the cia come up with was somehow their minds and then. by a hostile communist forces and therefore you see we're not speaking for the valves somebody was the root and therefore since we now have. evidence later proved to be on true that the communists have a mind control capacity or are developing it is absolutely urgent that we as a defensive project become involved in the search or mind control and it was simply gottlieb's and i said before you can find a way to insert a new mind into somebody's brain you 1st have to find a way to destroy the mind that is in there he spent 10 years experimenting on most important addictive trying to find ways roy's

a human mind the human spirit the human body you mention the cultural context i mean these ivy league white middle class people there's a class dimension to it but even they out on earth did they agreed to hiring nazis people implicated people who were involved in experimentation and the death camps i mean specially sidney gottlieb himself what his grandparents were balik oh so i was really this is a fascinating part of this story so during at the very end of the 2nd world war. head of our u.s. secret service the o.s.f. . wrote a memo to president roosevelt saying that as the nazi regime was collapsing it would be important for the u.s. government to try to hire nazi spy and bring them into working for the u.s. government rather than rejected this you know we're not going to hire any of those

. but after a few months roosevelt was that true that was in power and that process went ahead after the very end mediately after the 2nd world war american intelligence officials were arresting many people in germany and they had files if you had a scientific background they would put a paper on your file so therefore operation paperclip became the name of the project by which nazis were brought to the united states and this was a process that involves something called shape because the records of these people had to be placed all references to membership in the net after the gestapo had to be. there would be little entries made into what a good family band was. so the 1st group that came were by then the 2nd group was the rocket scientist that was very blunt then came the 30 bio warfare

people the people who wanted to know how to control human smuggling thought to themselves who's out there that has information that we don't have who's been experimenting people and that played out exactly what portions of our kind that work on the human mind and human by well if they're not because interation doctors and the bio warfare experts will work for the 3rd reich the part about godly is particularly intriguing as you say godly jewish his parents emigrated from central europe at the beginning of the 20th century if they had not emigrated and you know sydney might well wild up being the victim of one of those horrific so called medical experiment in a nazi concentration camp but in the event that didn't happen to grow up in the united states any didn't seem to have any problem working shoulder to shoulder with the nazi doctors who carried out those various maybe the senators. worked on that

committee on torture about guantanamo about abu ghraib maybe they should definitely read this was because ironically i suppose predictable that they then these nazi doctors this stuff engage in a pulling torture and injecting l.s.d. into african-americans and the tricity drugs you talk about mass poisonings in san francisco you're absolutely right that project went completely off the rails largely due to gottlieb himself so does the san francisco bay it was just one example you're right it involves our respect experiments on human subjects and the numbers of people die but god we also had all sorts of other interests one of them was l.s.d. making 53 in a godly persuasions and the i a 2 by the entire world supply of l.s.d. and use that for 2 purposes one was these horrific lee course an experiment into

trying to destroy human minds but the other were for less course of experiments including this bizarre program that he set up in san francisco he wanted to see if there was a connection between drugs like l.s.d. and other one and that so we got a guy in san francisco to work for him in a hire a ring of prostitutes job was to go out to the guys bring them back to a specially equipped apartment they were there be said l.s.d. and their reactions would be monitored by some fat drug agent who had no scientific background it was just sitting on a portable toilet drinking martinis out of a pitcher. this was called operation midnight oh i bet. so there's a national security whorehouse we're part of america ever to send itself against communism in the $1850.00 this is how crazy m.k.

ultra. seemed kids are all stop you there more about m.k. ultra in the boys or in chief after this break was on thin ice despite black lives matter protests over alleged murders by us security forces of the next to feel the force of us will enforce meant a 1000000 overseas students we tell you how you might escape the clutches of the immigration and customs enforcement agency as plans for mass deportations begin only civil coming up in part 2 of going underground. time after time corporations repeat the same mantra sustainability it's very important to accelerate the transition to sustainable transport sustainability remand more equitable and sustainable while. they claim their production is

completely harmless. because. companies want us to feel good about buying their products while the damage is being done far away this is something this must be done to anyone and i need money. in this and we didn't dream and then we understood superman. welcome back i'm still here with stephen kinzer discussing the cia's so-called mind control program m.k. ultra tell me about the unintended consequences the cultural consequences and does the 60. counter-culture well the irony of this has to do with the experiments that gottlieb wanted to carry out on ordinary people so in addition to these uses of l.s.d.

is there on prisoners or on people who are unaware not leave also wanted to see how an ordinary person would react to l.s.d. in a clinical setting knowing exactly what was happening so almost overnight a whole new market for l.s.d. research grew up people who'd come in and volunteer one of them one can key the author of what went on to become the great counterculture classic one who over the cuckoo's nest actually he took it in a hospital and loved it so much that he got a job in the hospital in the veterans administration not the middle of our california that's what gave them the material purpose fantastic book allen ginsberg or the radical poet was another of the very 1st volunteers to use the method of understood that the l.s.d. they were using came from the new gottlieb and the i clearly also then go on to do a quote john lennon who said thank the cia if not to got me i understand the

assassination program was pretty lifing tell me about the press there better known the castro fidel castro raul castro che guevara's assassination attempts by both labor and also patrice lumumba so the title of my book poisoner in chief refer to the us doesn't you're talking about that is the campaign by the united in the late . foreign leader that me. was the head of the chemical branch of the cia there was a logical that when the cia needed poison or any purpose including killing a foreign leader he would be the person they were turned in it was sydney got the. poison that was supposed to have been used to poison the chinese leader joe and why that plot was thwarted later on fidel castro became the target and it was godly who created all those elaborate devices you read about not only the elbe pill

that the phrase i learned while reading the file i wish dealt ill else that for lethal or help it was a little kill you he made those for castro but he also made things like a poison fountain and with an ultra fine so he wouldn't feel it went into your leg he made a poison wetsuit so that if castro put another and we need a way to get him the obviously none of the plots were successful then when the cia decided at the order of president eisenhower to assassinate patrice lumumba of the prime minister of the congo not only did godly make the boy carried from washington to the congo which i think makes them the only person in history at its best ever of kerry government may poison to another country intended for the use in the fascinating the leader of that country you know we don't know if you believe

these assassinations go on in your book you quote richard helms as saying the principle driving force was attorney general robert kennedy and you say there's an irony that actually the cia acid in paris was receiving a poison pen on the same day as as malcolm x. said the chickens came home to roost and j.f.k. robots brother was killed whatever you believe about the kennedy assassination all of the or even in some way didactic you. if it was oswald alone it was because he was angry we know it go back to us making again that it was castro it was revenge that was the end after it was because they didn't like him to giving up on the baby . yet it was because if you missed it with the i am right out rogue elements of the national hero it was because they were angry we're going to be over here about that shield the 2nd has never left the us government actually died when i see the intensity with which we were the persian action q but you know it or think we're

still angry don't castro but we don't know how many hundreds of millions of lives may be affected by all these foreign policy decisions just finally what's happened to camp dietrich which reaches so much in this book is associated with palm island because of course there is a conspiracy in fact law some of us representative from the republicans because of a smith said lyme disease could have been created by camp dietrich it's a disease 300000 americans a diagnosis annually off what would his cab dietrick now well 48 you're going to now call was the center for development of u.s. biological weapons and biological agents in general it's now used for example purpose as a storage facility for. anti dotes to possible with global disease. it was rare that sidney gottlieb maintained a secret will sell in which cia scientists concocted there or the area out there

other work. now it's not clear what kind of research is done on behind some of the closed doors at fort dietrich but it's certain to say that although we don't know how deep the u.s. government is going into research for biological warfare sub which is limited by us or whatever the u.s. government doing in this area. it's happening behind closed door on maryland same base that was the center m.k. ultra the place where the forces were abrogated. where there is the most. research anywhere in the world waiting weapon right here your ground against record weaponization so. vital and there reduce your role in this our army of bio warfare and the investigation and

biological tools if it be used a little. simkins i thank you. well away from the cia now to another arguably in from his us government agency ice or immigration and customs enforcement has grown a virus in black lives matter protests continue to rage it is threatening to deport maybe every overseas student from the usa but the leading immigration lawyer and former international student is fighting back fiona mcentee joins me now via skype from chicago thanks unified and coming on more than a 1000000 international students given the u.s. student visas nast year what on earth is being threatened against them. thanks for having the apps and i were kind of messed up height by by this and so it's actually earlier on this week at i changed course with regard. for foreign students that were made kind of hands and essentially they said that if foreign students were go

in to be studying online and morris had an online only course that's the false master and they would not be able to do that while maintaining their their student visa status here in the u.s. now i know harvard and mit have already said they're going to sue the trumpet ministration i mean this could really mean the mass deportation of say all u.k. students from the united states. well i mean that was certainly what i had put in there they're interactive that they issued a essentially last foreign students that we're going to be attending online only courses with a few options and i don't think any of the options are grace and the 1st is leave the last 2nd to try to scramble to transfer schools and a few weeks notice assuming they can find a course in a school that is not online only and force the schools to to go on to kind of change from online only to in person or face deportation so they're the options

that they were left with into law it is to say that harvard and mit have already northwestern university in chicago and recently just joined in in support of harvard and mit position as well and i know you tweeted out a loophole a possible loophole i don't know whether you're being humorous about it i'll get to that in a 2nd 1st of all do you think this seriously is a recognition by those in power in the u.s. that students they consume is but they don't contribute anything to united states society when the i mean it's certainly a slap in the face to the foreign students who come over and i just don't understand it from an economic point of view all the economic data goes to show how much foreign students contributes just like even living here you know $41000000000.00 and they've put into the u.s. economy in the $2829000.00 academic here and just by being here their presence alone created over 450000 jobs here in the you asked so in the middle of

a pontiac when the economy is suffering on so many ways i don't know why it makes sense to try to ecstatic huge population of emmer and thought are clearly contributing so much now let's get to this loophole that could save students watching this program around the world they could be something like a one credit course that could save them from deep. you know their ability to return to the u.s. to resume studies well i know that the colleges and universities are looking into the office and there was provision for am type model where it's not online only potentially codes foreign students and to stay but i think if that administration trump administration ice were trying to force schools to open i think their plan hasn't really worked because instead of doing that they've actually seen the administration so i would advise foreign students to terry and communicate with

your university and sit and watch this space to see what happens with this lawsuit but technically if the university has gone to online because of coronavirus and they have just one tiny little course maybe half an hour long that is face to face that that would mean that they would not be deported by ice well they're trying to figure out those details so there was provision for it you know that the directive spoke about online only so i think they're trying to figure out exactly what that means and kind of what are the promises of costs and so still being investigated by the colleges and the universities but i know that i had rather. i think you know almost every professor from some of these big universities had volunteered to coleman to teach at n.p.r.'s lynn class because they know how important the foreign students are both economically but also these are these are people's lives and i used to be a foreign student myself so advocating for current foreign student something that

i'm really passionate about you can just tell that the professors you know they care a lot about these students are from all over the world and it's just not right and the possession that ice is taken given that the grown a virus is you know absolutely not under control in this country and aside from the nearly half a 1000000 jobs lost perhaps 41000000000 down to the u.s. economy hundreds of thousands. maybe affected in terms of a student accommodation in the us yeah actually that was one of the things. i had done eventually then almost immediately multiple landlords got in touch with me directly to say that they were rantings that they releasing their places to foreign students and that if they were deported as you know they're asking me what's going to happen to their their apartment so i actually recommended that they consider writing a letter to the added or their local newspaper just from their point of view because you know it's not just it's bad enough that it's directly on the foreign students but there's a huge ripple effect from this on some of that includes the end pacts that it would

have on landlords that are really saying to foreign students at the time of this interview joe biden has an issued anything from delaware about what he'll do if he wins the white house in november obama and biden deported many more than trump more than any other president in history or all the presidents put together obama was known as the deporter in chief maybe more than 2 and a half 1000000 i mean any sign that actually could be worse than trump on these overseas students issues you know i don't think that there's any there's absolutely no way the biden is going to you know implement these types of policies. and i think that i've actually looks at with online but i brad's through. vice president biden's plan for immigration he's made a commitment to immigration reform to put it on the agenda in the 1st $100.00 days his plan is very comprehensive addresses that the humanitarian aspects of immigration like the asylum seekers you know in addition to looking so reform in

the business immigration and so addressing you know just the fact that the system is a dated and doesn't necessarily match up with the needs so there is no doubt in my mind there's no way we would see something like this from for your magazine thank you. thank you for having me that's it for the show will be back on wednesday the mafia a g.'s 1st democratically elected leader but you are a state overthrown by u.s. backed death squads and then wash your hands join the underground and you twits out that instagram the facebook. the silence here you see here.