there were going on the ground 75 years to the day joseph stalin winston churchill clement attlee and harry truman met in potsdam germany to establish a new post world war 2 world coming up in the show the longest war after $945.00 could the stalling of interrupt and talks of a prisoner transfer as threaten a resurgence of the us is longest war which followed u.s. u.k. support for it is the mists they are now fighting we asked the taliban if their prioritizing prisoners of the peace and if the 2020 u.s. presidential election could make a historic agreement

a thing of the past in the wake of major nation media stories about russian bounties damned is fake news by joel trump and his nato nations gently causing socialism to recover from coronavirus we investigate the people's republic of b. and other corporations arguably using the tools of socialism to benefit from covert $19.00 a ball coming up in today's going underground 1st today 75 years ago the world was carved up in a bombed out germany it's estimated that $27000000.00 russians sacrificed their lives for a victory against nazi germany here is how you case a mandated media cover the story yet is the place for truman will decide the future of your stomach if adopted by the western allies as one of the russians was in evidence. from enough time on his arrival in meeting president truman this. it was the 1st

occasion on which they'd met since truman became president of the united states and the portsdown conference would precede truman's detonation of the world's 1st atomic bomb over hiroshima forever leaving the human race in fear of nuclear annihilation historians across the global south believed the use of w m d's to kill untold hundreds of thousands of civilians was not to defeat fascism but to affirm us supremacies in a post war world except the usa would be defeated time and time again since i did 45 from cuba to vietnam and today in afghanistan where the us is longest war continues with u.k. boots on the ground like every war there has been propaganda we don't hear much now about how nature created the circumstances for $911.00 we had this brilliant idea that we were going to come to pakistan and create a force of mujahideen equip them with stinger missiles and everything else to go after the soviets in afghanistan and we were successful the soviets left afghanistan and then we said great good by leaving these trained people who were

fanatical in afghanistan and pakistan leaving them well armed creating a mess frankly that at the time we didn't really recognize we were just so happy to see the soviet union fall and we thought ok fine we're ok now everything's going to be so much better now you look back the people we're fighting today we were supporting in the fight against the soviets. one of potsdam 75 years ago today carved out a post world war 2 order our next guest is linked to the post 911 order joining me

via skype from doha is the taliban spokesperson so he'll show him thank you so much as i have a coming on the back of the scores of our taliban attacks going on at the moment but the u.s. army finally announcing that it is retreating it is leaving your country nato has not been counting the numbers of afghan dead since the usa began its longest war and in fact the news in nato nations is that your people your taliban people are taking russian money to kill nato soldiers what do you make of the allegations. won't do that actually is it is not true it is baseless allegations we are not providing for anyone part many. our people are. not there. and they are providing part that had a 2nd fighting in power limbs up and $100.00. 1000.

people there have been laid down do you have allowed to see and it may 2nd crisis water or liberation of the country and what establishing going to semi would mean according to very near as please a minimal drum set it wasn't real information pompei i didn't mention it with mahler. on a recent video conference but the new york times said that they had an anonymous official the told them the taliban had received large amounts of money from russian intelligence the g.r.u. the story picked up on the state mandated b.b.c. air how can you say it's not true and is this just fake news or if it is fake news secretly i think it has to do with the internal politics and hey thank. you it has to do with the. violators of the peace process and peace agreement signed it here and i'll have so that is why after the signing of their equipment

they have made weariest kind up against him and made a trip back and accompanied him and that ultimately. subject him is it to damage in harm this peace process well i know the taliban is famous for taking down statues but do you think high different ever statues m.b.m. black lives matter or do you think it's racism and the western media that seem to think the taliban need money to to kill an american soldier our struggle for liberation is not to fight of many we are not to mend misandry of any country and that isn't really a sleaze. thinking perception and i think it is not true we have a per i've heard our lives for the liberation of our country and for our

border $54.00 countries afterwards. there was about 150000 american in now 2 soldiers 500002 cover living with this issue soldiers and also 50000 of one institution militias need for that after water almost 20 years and are we near our houses are destroyed and our our child destroyed is our cultivation a failure story that we have given our country destruction of 1000000 abra millions of dollars and that's what the cost of we knew because of the reason we live edition is really. an issue for us those who say that at this critical time why we have signed the agreement the year for cause is to create confusion and to dampen

the peace process but it is politically motivated it is not true well major countries are france millions perhaps billions of dollars too and say that all of a sudden democracy in afghanistan you imagine doha where where does the taliban get its money from because though our has been an under blockade from saudi arabia you probably were there and i thought the taliban gets its money from saudi donors all these things what they see these are claims and not true where does the taliban get its money yes we have come true or she went to percent of the territory afghanistan we have access system inside the country we have. one payment from the utility bills and also from. the billionaires in trade that is all the communities and

merchandise entering afghanistan we have access of them because without our per our permission no we hate or of any kind will go from one province to another province those are the times our drive is so high it's not drug dealing because as the taliban is expanded and i understand it's in a very strong position now so is the opium and the heroin on the streets of european capitals of heroin any poppy cultivation they give you any increase after the. installation of the pyramid the bottom in of the government was headed by me because i wasn't imposing on the people on the people of afghanistan sure that started. the puck cultivation increases and over time it forces and xenical to it or the country how bad the pockets of mission and also when we are in power we

are committed to put time into poppy cultivation to end the drug trafficking so no taliban made any money out of drug cultivation you know no one is really proud of what that is saving at this taps penny in. from the people and the people and they've got a child there the people are giving as many because we are in control and all bill was booze it is he was the person of money some of the all the will really is yes we are in control of that all the way or the carbon emitting station is the besiege in the main cities they have no control. who is doing it i mean how many cars i've been on this program he denied being involved in the drug trade and it's not the taliban are you accusing a british of american soldiers of growing the opium it is a i hacked maybe many elements with that there are external or internal they all of them are involved in this drug trafficking and pop

cultivation because new to this 20 year you are. losing i did you install by. america america you and other western powers i do think that time the fact because you usually move and with that proportionally the drive to picking to do so of course is there will be some who are claiming that we were full time and in fact maybe in war and. in increasing. pockets addition you see some would say they're rich taliban and they're a poet alabama now how would you look into the eyes of a poor taliban community person and say to them maybe their family had been killed by. u.s. drone strike and tell them to accept the doha agreement and to trust the united states we are a people of our understand of sympathy that the people that we generate the people

that masses understand all of us we are living. according to the means that they have their own and not a rich people that are in agreement with each other we have signed with america and i think it is in interest of the afghan people and also of the american people because the american people they got an edible exhibit come up by this time and we got to enter a vision of the country and the independence of the country that is a book for us in after that focus a little construction of afghanistan and development of understanding to do something part or own people from the past but i spirity and well being of our people so that is i think i'll work for both sides he may be seen as honorable bipartisan the door grima devry what would you say to the 10s of thousands of british relatives of those who've been killed or wounded. was there any point of

britain and its soldiers going to afghanistan in the 1st place and 2003 i think there was no it isn't to go to another country and in an age that people feel that people destroy the religious our church the country if you go from above is the enemy that you can and destroyed the religious and their houses in kill the other people the children what would the response the common people in u.k. the same is our p.d. because it is our country we are all have any other country we have to to defend our country it is i want to legitimate right there are people in kashmir who say their legitimate right is to live with sovereignty why why is it over between the taliban between the taliban and pakistan just the taliban not support pakistan and china are over indian. annexation of kashmir is it over relations

between pakistan and the taliban. we have a doctor said anything with that we do a lot a lot about. you is in position are india in position are you pollution of any every country not really have. supported that much we have discussed because we are focused on ending occupation in our own country but anywhere the people they have the right to go in the enter the country and the free india the country and can live according to the it is but as a nation so how saying thank you. after the break from a coronavirus vaccine to world hunger could wal-mart's business model save the world we are the older the people's republic of wal-mart the for all the some more

coming up in part 2 of going underground. well look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. i robot must obey the orders given by human beings except when such orders to conflict with the 1st law. or should be very careful about artificial intelligence and the point is to trust our government here. playing with artificial intelligence will summoning the demon. of the obama's protect its own existence and.

welcome back as coronavirus continues to disproportionately ravaged the worst off in society why is it that multinational companies like wal-mart and amazon have been able to weather the storm one in some cases profiting massively could there arguably socialist model be the blueprint for a new era of post pandemic human equality joining me now via skype from victorian counted on this new phillips's book coauthored by michelle reward ski the people's republic of wal-mart is out now lisa thanks so much for coming on your your book the people's republic of wal-mart explains how the monopoly companies like supermarkets where essentially soviet style planned to go on to me is within galba lism i don't know whether you'd agree with that witnessing how and von scott. as economies lay capitalist economies are reacted to coronavirus doing they read your book and they've understood the when there's an emergency you go to do things the walmart way you know that is not quite interesting what we've seen is that. for all

of the discourse of the last 40 years certainly a liberal argument that markets are the optimum mechanism of allocation of goods and services when when a crisis comes markets just are insufficient they are too slow too too laggard late or in many cases simply aren't up to producing the the items that are needed and certainly the state is back in vogue to plant that and that's why it's not just it's certainly not left wing governments it's right wing governments of reducing flavor just as in the case of the war certainly during the 2nd world war in the west united states all sorts of investment decision making planning. and decision making was planned by the state because the market was just too. it's too slow and it's the last you know 20 years since the sars virus came out

emerged. at the knee ologists and viral or just particularly those nationalizing but in coronavirus or search where or arguing that there was a necessity to increase not just funding for research for for that sector but for that field it also to begin to develop therapeutics and and and potentially vaccines but of course pharmaceutical companies have been out of the business developing vaccines for about 40 years because back scenes are just insufficiently profitable compared to drugs that for for chronic diseases say where everybody where the patient has to take that drug every day for the rest of their lives so in the edge of the eye really about a lot of service and you've actually nation discourses where there you go is cared about the corporations need irony is that corporations the pharmaceutical corporations are very reluctant to engage in and far they very high on their taxes

. i'm sure they'd all deny that if you case anyone hasn't read the book i better just quickly ask you to remind us about why i might have equated fundamental capitalist companies like wal-mart your mother national supermarket down the road or your multinational tech company and ole to the u.s.s.r. . well starting in around the 1920 s. there was a debate between left wing economists and right wing columnists. which is has since been known as the economic calculation debate or the social scale collation debate as to whether it's actually even mathematically possible to. your plan. today to gauge an economic planning and the conservative argument from figures like hyatt and mrs. historically was that simply once you get the on for a particular scale. there are simply too many that are there evils within within an

economy of whatever size. a certain size simply too many variables to calculate too many inputs and efforts. and that it begins to be unmanageable and so there are going to with the unmanageability is what led to the authoritarian in some of the soviet union when we argue in the book is that actually status if that's true then organizations like walmart and amazon really shouldn't work because in the case of wal-mart being wal-mart is a vast organization which is in part like all firms all companies is internally planned there's no markets an internal market that you know where people decide how to stock shelves on the basis of marketing on your internal market like the internal market that was introduced to do that for health services to drawing great efficiency and as i've critics. yes no absolute that's a very good point the national health service in the u.k.

is an example again an example of planning on a vast scale and weigh in internal market mechanisms where to use it only certain. expand it if the political leaders of nato nations new liberal governments they'll be saying of course they probably haven't read your book maybe but they might then say you know this is an emergency it's like wartime communism. but you would say no this is actually something that spans peace time well i'll go beyond that and say it is if their argument is correct that markets are the most efficient and mechanism of allocation and why isn't it working in the emergency. and then we can flip that around on its head and say well if it works if we decided now that. that economic planning is just so far so critically superior to the markets in the emergency as well why are we not looking at planning as a mechanism for allocation and other times. if we now accept that actually this

secure mechanism of allocation there's a recognition that plan planning can be efficient and what does that mean for the hundreds of millions of people who've been affected by i.m.f. and world bank free market models which themselves are based on actually emergency conditions if there was a time of famine that we must have contract competition we must have internal markets because only then can humanity benefit well again i think the response from so many governments in the in the way that i need to engage in economic planning is proves that thesis and so why is it that. most people in the world would think it is the free market that is innovative is efficient and creates the best outcomes for human beings. well it's to have 2 fold one is a lot of myth making around that the idea is that entrepreneurs are incredibly.

innovative and coming up with great ideas but the reality is that the vast majority of. innovation let's say for example i mean marion mascot is the accounting american ought to be. i mean she makes the argument directly that you know pretty much about the dozen or so technologies that are found in your in your smartphone. were in fact built by the by the pentagon we in fact and most you know can. be most by technology and again the. the innovations there are. funded and developed within the public sector either at university laboratories or government laboratories and for technology after technology to technology clean technology nanotechnology all of these the vast majority of the innovation of the last 56 years has been found in the public sector the reason for that is that.

market actors are actually incredibly risky alerts they are. great risk takers at all if they cannot see the possibility of. return on investment these are profit they will be reluctant to invest in that whereas the state has no profit incentive the state can decide well we don't know whether this is going to work or not but it's probably good for society so we're going to try it out and that's why you know basic research for example the private sector doesn't 0 basic research almost all basic research is performed by universities well obviously that has implications for the multi-billionaire as hoover made lots of money during coronavirus and you make money when it's not coronavirus and say that it's their risks they take that mean they should learn so much how dangerous is coronavirus to

the entire model of capitalism then because do you think the walmart's of this world the amazons of this world are going to understand that people may have caught on to the fact that actually the most efficient methods for organizing humanity are planned ones and remarkable and well the crucial thing in distinction that we make in the book is that. planning is just a necessary thing that condition for an egalitarian society for a just society it is not a sufficient condition i mean the other parent is ancient egypt where class there wasn't a market economy there that was largely a slave society planning can be used or carrying fashion as well i mean the the chinese find this party engages and serve a mixture of markets. market mechanisms within their society and their real storage area in economic planning but we want to see is in the limitation of the authority of authoritarianism of the chinese communist party of the air the ones in

turkey or black americans of the world we want to be democratically that the economic planning has to be generally democratic side. and that's that's the next step and so when donald trump in the initial stages of the pandemic stood there flanked by c.e.o.'s of big multinational companies. is that a mixed message because we don't really understand whether those multinationals are in fact internally planned they don't know and dialogues with in their companies all one has as much of the democrat left said a sign of corruption and private privateering. very much latter i mean a response to the corona virus has been another disaster partially. a lot of it does come down to corruption and incompetence but part of that is that we simply haven't learned the lesson that even his conservative colleague across the

atlantic boris johnson. suggested is not a free marketeer and yet his response to the coronavirus from the very 1st base as being much more server space center. than donald trump. do you think the stigma of u.s.s.r. style planning will slowly deteriorate and. finally go away as environmental catastrophe becomes more and more apparent i think that the the crucial lesson that we need to take from the soviet union was not the planning led to authoritarianism but if you actually look at the economic history of the soviet union that it was the authoritarian isn't it was that the author karen is my undermines the planning. and we have many examples of planning that you know wal-mart is an example of planning

task and it worked amazon is an example of planning in fact that works. the n.h.s. private it was the introduction of the internal market and even still to this day despite that those unfortunate development. remains a an enormous entity that the engagement planning of the myriad different. elements on today's air bases also works. i think perhaps the pandemic that might break it bring an end to their certainly a liberal discourse as the free market is the only possible efficient mechanism of allocation. thank you. thank you that's over the show will be back on monday if you don't capitalism grown a virus and carlito's way with iconic character actor luis was until then washed to join the underground of you through twitter facebook instagram and.

join me every thursday on the alex simon sure and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you there. during the vietnam war u.s. forces are also bomb to neighboring laos there was a secret war. and for years the american people did not know. until now so much that is officially the most heavily bombed country per capita. human history millions of unexploded bombs still in danger lives in this small agricultural country jordyn wieber. even today kids in laos full victims of bombs dropped decades ago is the u.s.

making amends for the tragedy and what help do the people need in that little land of mines. the top stories this hour london police officer is suspended after physio emerges of him kneeling on the neck of a black man he was arresting or so to come. pressure mounts on the israeli prime minister over his pandemic performance amid ongoing corruption claims and donald trump demands children should be sent back to school despite kobita infections surging to new highs is called have triggered debate about safety. every other country has her kids and schools except in i did states kids are spreading the disease their virus is. all over the country.