who were fanatical in afghanistan and pakistan leaving them well armed creating a mess frankly that at the time we didn't really recognize we were just so happy to see the soviet union fall and we thought ok fine we're we're ok now everything's going to be so much better now you look back the people we're fighting today we were supporting in the fight against the soviets. one of potsdam 75 years ago today carved out a post world war 2 order our next guest is linked to the post 911 order joining me via skype from doha is the taliban spokesperson so he'll show him thank you so much

as sam for coming on the back of the scores of our taliban attacks going on at the moment but the u.s. army finally announcing that it is retreating it is leaving your country nato has not been counting the numbers of afghan dead since the usa began its longest war and in fact the news in nato nations is that your people your taliban people are taking russian money to kill nato soldiers what do you make of the allegations 12 that actually is it is not true it is baseless allegation we are not providing for anyone part many. our people are. not there. and they are providing part that had a 2nd fighting in columns up and 100. 1001 people there have been laid down the other loud say and it may 2nd crisis

are liberation of the country and what establishing an exam it would mean according to very near as please a minimal drum set it wasn't real information pompei i didn't mention it with mahler. on a recent video conference but the new york times said that they had an anonymous official the told them the taliban had received large amounts of money from russian intelligence the g.r.u. the story picked up on the state mandated b.b.c. air how can you say it's not true and is this just fake news or if it is fake news it secretly i think it has to do with the internal politics and say thank. you it has to do with the. violators of the peace process and peace agreement signed it here and i'll have so that is why after the signing of their equipment they have made weariest kind up against him and made

a trip back and accompanied him and that ultimately. subject him is it to damage in harm this peace process well i know the taliban is famous for taking down flat shoes but do you think high different driver statues m b m black lives matter or do you think it's racism in the western media that seem to think the taliban need money to to kill an american soldier our straggle for liberation is not a fight of many we are not to mend missing of any country and that is really a sleaze. thinking perception and i think it is not true we have our per i've heard our lives for the liberation of our country and followed our buchalter $54.00 countries afterwards. there was

about 150000 american in and now 2 soldiers 500002 cover living with this issue soldiers and also 50000 of one institution militias reported that the water almost 20 years and are we near our houses are destroyed and our our child destroyed is our cultivation a failure story that we have given our country destruction of 1000000 abra millions of dollars that was the cost of we knew because the reason we live edition is really. initial for us those who say that at this critical time why we have signed the agreement the year for cause is to create confusion and to dampen the peace

process but it is politically motivated it is not true while major countries are france millions perhaps billions of dollars too and say that all of a sudden democracy in afghanistan you mentioned doha where does the taliban get its money from because though our has been an under blockade from saudi arabia you probably were there and i thought the taliban gets its money from saudi donors all these things what they see is the these are claims and not true where does the taliban get its money yes we have the true order she went to percent of the territory afghanistan we have access system inside the country we have. one payment from the utilities bills and also from. the billionaires in trade that is all the communities in

merchandise entering afghanistan we have access of them because without our per our permission no we hate or of any kind will go from one province to another province those are the times on the draw it is so it's not drug dealing because as the taliban is expanded and i understand it's in a very strong position now so is the opium and the heroin on the streets of european capitals of heroin any poppy cultivation they give you any increase after the. installation of the pyramid the bottom in of the government is headed by me because i wasn't imposed on the people on the people of afghanistan sure after starter. the pop culture vision increases and over time it was the unseen a capitalist or the country we have bad enough pocketing vision and also when we are in power we are committed to put time into poppy cultivation to dragstrip the

thing so no taliban is made any money out of drug cultivation you know no $1.00 is really proud of what that is saving it is a tax penny in. from the people and the people and they got a child there the people are giving as many because we are in control and all bill was booze it is he was the person above rather somber on the whole roll it yes we are in control of god or the war the common immunization is the besiege in the main cities they have no control. who is doing it i mean how mad cause i've been on this program he denied being involved in the drug trade he was not the taliban are you accusing a british and american soldiers of growing the opium is there i hacked maybe many elements with that there are external or internal they all of them are involved in this drug trafficking and pop culture mission because new to this 20 year you are.

losing i did you install by year. america america you and other western powers i do think that time the puck because you usually move and with that proportionally the drive to pickings are real so of course is there will be some who are claiming that we were full time and in fact maybe in war and. in increasing. pockets edition you see some would say there are rich taliban and there are poet alabama now how would you look into the eyes of a poor taliban community person and say to them maybe their family had been killed by. u.s. drone strike and tell them to accept the doha agreement and to trust the united states we are a people of our understand of simplicity that the people that we generate the

people that masses of understand all of us we are living. according to the means that they have their own and not a rich people that. we have signed with america and i think it is in interest of the afghan people and also of the american people because the american people they got an edible exhibit come up by this time and we got to enter a vision of the country and the independence of the country that is a book for us in after that focus a little construction of afghanistan and development of understanding to do something part or own people from the past but i spirity and will being of our people so there is i think i'll work for both sides he may be seen as on arrival bipartisan the door agreement then what would you say to the 10s of thousands of british relatives of those who've been killed or wounded. was there any point of

britain and its soldiers going to afghanistan in the 1st place and 2003 i think there was no it isn't to go to another country and in an age that people feel that people destroy the religious our church their country if you go from above is done in a way that you can take and destroyed the religious and their houses in kill the other people the children what would the response the common people in u.k. the same is our feeling because it is our country we are all have any other country we have to to defend our country it is i want to legitimate right there are people in kashmir who say their legitimate right is to live with sovereignty why why is it over between the taliban between the taliban and pakistan just the taliban not support pakistan and china are over indian. annexation of kashmir is it

over relations between pakistan and the taliban. doc said anything with we do a lot about. your position are india in position are you pollution as a country not really have. supported that mass we have discussed because we are focused on ending occupation in our own country but anywhere the people. have a right to go in the enter the country and the pretty india the country and can live according to the is but as the nation so how saying thank you. and after the break from a coronavirus vaccine to world hunger could wal-mart's business model save the world we ought to be all over the people's republic of wal-mart leaflets all the support coming up in 5 to up going underground.

during the vietnam war u.s. forces also bomb to neighboring laos it was a secret war. and for years the american people did not know. lassalle my son is officially the mousepad rebound country per capita all human history millions of unexploded bombs still in danger lives in this small agricultural country jordyn wieber going to continue to happen. even today kids in laos full victims of bombs dropped decades ago is the us making amends for that tragedy and what help to the people need in that little land of mines. seemed wrong. just don't call. me. yet to stamp

out this day to come as a whole and engagement equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart when chance to look for common ground. oh no no crow. no shots no. actually use the belt. strap no one. points your thirst for action. the world is full of day traders now of that stock trading is free and got all that free money from the government because lot of people speculate.

welcome back as corona virus continues to disproportionately ravage the worst off in society why is it the multinational companies like wal-mart and amazon have been able to weather the storm well in some cases profiting massively and could their

arguably socialist model be the blueprint for a new era of post by endemic human equality joining me now via skype from victorian calendar is author and journalist lee phillips whose book coauthored by michel roux was he the people's republic of wal-mart is out now leave thanks so much for coming on your your book the people's republic of wal-mart explains how kweisi monopoly companies like supermarkets were essentially soviet style blandly connolly's within galba lism i don't know where the you'd agree with that witnessing howell advance cabalist economies lead capitalist economies are reacted to coronavirus doing they read your book and they've understood that when there's an emergency you've got to do things the wal-mart way yet and that's that's quite interesting what we've seen is that. for all of the discourse over last 40 years certainly a liberal argument that markets are at the. mechanism of allocation of goods and services when the crisis comes markets just are insufficient they are

too slow too too laggard late or in many cases simply aren't producing the items that they're needed and certainly state it's back in boat to plant that and that so it's not just it's certainly not left wing governments it's right wing and governments are very single flavor just as in case of a war certainly during the 2nd world war in the west united states all sorts of investment decision making planning and investment decision making was planned by the state because the market was just too. it's too slow and it's the last you know 20 years since the sars virus came out emerged. at the neologism and viral a just particularly those nationalizing but in corona virus or search were already arguing that there was a necessity to increase not just funding for research for for that sector but

for that field it also to begin to develop therapeutics and and and potentially vaccines but of course pharmaceutical companies have been out of the business developing vaccines for about 40 years because back scenes are just insufficiently profitable compared to drugs that for for chronic diseases say where everybody where the patient has to take that drug every day for the rest of their lives so in the end it's or the irony about a lot of sirte and you've actually nation discourses where there is cared about the corporations need irony is that corporations the pharmaceutical corporations are very reluctant to engage in and far they very high on their taxes. i'm sure they'd all deny that if you case anyone hasn't read the book i better just quickly ask you to remind us about why i might have equated fundamental capitalist companies like wal-mart your mother national supermarket down the road or your

multinational tech company and ole to the u.s.s.r. . well starting in around the 1920 s. there was a debate between left wing economists and right wing columnists. which is has since been known as the economic calculation debate or the social scale collation debate as to whether it's actually even mathematically possible to. do plan. to gauge an economic planning and the conservative argument from figures like high end mieses. historically was that simply once you get the on for a particular scale. there are simply too many that are there evils within within an economy of whatever size. a certain size simply too many variables to calculate too many inputs and efforts. and that it begins to be unmanageable and

so there are going to unmanageability is what led to the authoritarian in some of the soviet union we argue in the book is that actually status if that's true then organizations like walmart and amazon really shouldn't work because in the case of wal-mart being wal-mart is a vast organization which is in part like all firms all companies is internally planned there's no markets internal market where people decide how to stock shelves on the basis of a market exchange for internal market like the internal market that was introduced to do that for health services to drawing great efficiency and as i've critics. yes no absolute that's a very good point the national health service in the u.k. is an example again an example of planning on a vast scale and way and internal market mechanisms where to use it only certain. expand it if the political leaders of nato nations new liberal governments they'll

be saying of course they probably haven't read your book maybe but they might then say you know this is an emergency it's like wartime communism. but you would say no this is actually something that spans peace time well i'll go beyond that and say it is if their argument is correct that markets are the most efficient and mechanism of allocation and why isn't it working in the emergency. and then we can flip that around on its head and say well if it works if you decided now that. that economic planning is just so far so critically superior to the markets in the emergency as well why are we not looking at planning as a mechanism for allocation and other times if we now accept that actually this secure mechanism of allocation there's a recognition that plan planning can be efficient and what does that mean for the hundreds of millions of people who've been affected by i.m.f. and world bank free market models which themselves are based on actually emergency

conditions if there is a time of famine that we must have contract competition we must have internal markets because only then can humanity benefit well again i think the the response from from so many governments and in the way that i need to engage in economic planning is proves that the sense and so why is it that. most people in the world would think it is the free market that is innovative is efficient and creates the best outcomes for human beings. well it's true twofold one has a lot of myth making around that the idea is that that entrepreneurs are incredibly . innovative and coming up with great ideas but the reality is that the vast majority of of innovation let's say for example i mean marion mascot is the

accounting american ought to be. i mean she makes the argument directly that you know pretty much about the dozen or so technologies that are found in your in your smartphone. were in fact built by the by the pentagon we in fact and most you know can. be most by technology and again the. innovations there are. funded and developed within the public sector either university laboratories or government laboratories and for technology after technology to technology clean technology nanotechnology all of these the vast majority of the innovation of the last 56 years has been found in the public sector the reason for that is that. market actors are actually incredibly risky alerts they are. great risk takers at all if they cannot see the possibility of. a return on investment these are profit they will be reluctant to invest in that

whereas the state has no profit incentive the state can decide well we don't know whether this is going to work or not but it's probably good for society so we're going to try it out and that's why you know basic research for example the private sector doesn't 0 basic research almost all basic research is performed by universities well obviously that has implications for the multi-billionaire as hoover made lots of money during coronavirus and you make money when it's not coronavirus and say that it's their risks they take that mean they should learn so much how dangerous is coronavirus to the entire model of capitalism then because do you think the walmart's of this world the amazons of this world are going to understand that people may have caught on to the fact that actually the most efficient to methods for organizing humanity are planned ones and remarkable and

well the crucial thing in distinction that we make in the book is that. planning is just a necessary can this condition for an egalitarian society for a just society it is not a sufficient condition i mean the other parent is ancient egypt where class that was in the market economy there that was largely a slave society planning can be used or carrying fashion as well i mean the chinese find this party engages and serve a mixture of markets. market mechanisms within their society and their real storage area in economic planning but we want to see is in the limitation of the authorities and authoritarianism of the chinese communist party of the air the ones in turkey or black americans of the world we want to be democratically that the economic planning has to be generally democratic side. and that's that's the next step and so when donald trump in the initial stages of the pandemic stood there

flanked by c.e.o.'s of big multinational companies. is that a mixed message because we don't really understand whether those multinationals are in fact internally planned they don't have a dialogue with in their companies all one has as much of the democrat left said a sign of corruption and private privateering. very much the latter i mean a response to the coronavirus has been another disaster partially. a lot of it does come down to corruption and incompetence but part of that is the simply haven't learned the lesson that even you know his conservative colleagues across the atlantic boris johnson. you know nobody suggested it's not a free market here and yet his response to the coronavirus from the very 1st base as being much more server space center.

than donald trump. do you think the stigma of u.s.s.r. style planning will slowly deteriorate and. finally go away as environmental catastrophe becomes more and more apparent i think that the the crucial lesson that we need to take from the soviet union was not the planning led to authoritarianism but if you actually look at the economic history of the soviet union that it was the authoritarian isn't that the author karen is my undermines the vietnamese planning. and we have many examples of planning that you know wal-mart is an example of planning task and that worked amazon is an example plans ask how that works. the n.h.s. privately with the introduction of the internal market and even still to this day

despite that those unfortunate developments it remains a an enormous entities that these engage in planning of the myriad different. elements on today's air bases also work. i think perhaps the pandemic that might break it bring an end to their certainly a liberal discourse as the free market is the only possible efficient mechanism the power station. phillips thank you. that's over the show will be back on monday don't capitalism coronavirus and carlito's way with iconic character actor luis was until then wash to join the underground and you through twitter facebook instagram without.

my social class. people poverty 1st. if you're born into a poor family if you're born into a minority family if you're born into a family that only has a single parent that really constrains your life chances people die on average 15 years younger than your born into generational poverty. it's a fight the fight every day so you meet your needs and the needs of your family. during the vietnam war u.s. forces are also neighbor unless there was a secret war. and for years the american people did not know. until our so much that is officially the most heavily bombed country per capita in the ball of human history millions of unexploded bombs still in danger lives in this small

agricultural country jordan i really don't think it's happening there even today kids in laos full victims of bombs dropped decades ago is the us making amends for the tragedy in laos won't help to the people need in that little land on. this politically impossible in the united states to advise eating was anything that has the industry. morning did that makes a lot of money. i'm going to say over and over again we know what it. means not much for one for one. is very very good for this is it doesn't make anybody rich people eat less.

the london police officer is suspended off to video images of him meeting on the back of a black man who was a rustic also ahead. of the. pressure mounts on me as radio prime minister for his pandemic before one summit ongoing corruption claims. on the united states clocks up $77000.00 new coronavirus cases in just a single day shuttering its previous record what it comes as donald trump's rating seems to be plummeting in response to his handling of.