orthodox christians until the amounts conquered. because of the nobility in 4053 and their converted into a mosque now under other turkey in the early 20th century they made it into i'm you see it was part of that secular sation to make it into well as i should put it positioning it urges a secular state and also along with and or sr to be a good bridge between the east and west so in meetings it's not history but also being more european so again i can understand why turkish muslims then would like to we will not care for the fact that our most cus been clear to me see him for almost a century and it would like kept returning to a place of worship however they shouldn't also recognize that for christians they have similar concerns a serious affair was not billed as a most ill that's a cathedral. and this kind of this is the national sovereignty of course of turkey to decide what it should do and how everything indicates what

kind of country turkey will be obviously things like pluralism and respect for other faiths this doesn't really signal that this is our skipper to use a rather specific that in itself. will essentially history now represents one of conquests and subjugation of christians so it's is that i mean this major between east and west the seems turkey a suspect or worse as setting itself on the front line and that clash of civilization by session it s. that being all over a christian landmark. by solely converting it to mosques now run the think that if you're not going to hurt us and you see i'm going to police i was a place of worship for christians us well so far the turks i simply argued that out so you know it will be you know buddhists and hindus increases their ok come and visit the tourist destination but it's not a buddhist it source this nation is like christian landmarks are you confident. so

going to miss the whole point about clear is. you know it's a bit i think what glenn said isn't as well said because this is a obviously historically important to christianity however the nominal christian west was kind of ho hum about the whole day i mean that there's very little. reaction to a unilateral decision to critically sense turkey is under international obligations they will be sensitive to the religious artifacts of other religions and now that seems to been abrogated and and this cost was go ahead alan wasn't it i mean i think this is punch of the fact that christianity is not as important in the west as it wants woese in fact you see in the west increasingly not just a secular i say she trends but perhaps tear i say it in some places and anti christian trends we she's been gaining force and i think that this events

does not have the significance in the west that he does over there even once at in the east and east and also doxie it's different i mean also doxie to a great extent actually develops in its present full as pawns hope the system of worship looks to place in this church and it is as important tool as the talks christians as say since peter's basilica in rugby is to catholics said he isn't radical events and the other concern that i think many orthodox christians would have is that of course he's full of precious leftover from the time when he was a church their existence is inconsistent with it being a mosque there may come a day when he more millicent full of this lump decides that the. christian symbols

and christian artwork and simply inconsistent with these present. there is another factor which i think is not me given the attention that it deserves which is that when adults are made the decision to confess the church in the last back into the museum he was doing to say things firstly he was secular icing and westernizing tacky now that he's being rude 1st he was also doing something else which is that he was signaling to the neighboring countries the neighboring christian and former christian countries greece so union and all the rest of the turkey was intent on being a good name is very much part of kemo letter to extol assiut that's on a major route across soviet union which people tend to forget very major red cross more with greece now values facing this decision at the same time the

gun is a joking a much more as city foreign policy that signals to many people in the in the area around tacky that policy that adds it so cannot it so it had is being abandoned is be pushed aside so it has a major resonance in the east it is not absent such great interest in the west glen is there no one making a statement to the muslim world i mean obviously he's made this decision because he can do it i mean if the sovereignty issue in a modern sense but this is and he certainly doesn't care what they think the nominal christian countries of the west have to say and and of course it's of the french to to greece being of the most important orthodox country neighboring it but this is a message to the muslim world that is a kind of an a neo ottoman ism issue. well it could be because several of us

authorities. express this the cyrus a take a bit of a leadership position in the role and again as you mentioned it's a neo modern and. their position is how it was to some extent to social influence this all takes in syria i think it's been very gone and now i think this ability to essentially stand up to the international community and also stand up to the west and say listen or we will do as we want us to please. you with it are we to chase you know islam and in this fight against the western christianity i think you know that has some. cultural. value if you want and obviously this could have your negative cases for the wider region because if they really want to be kind of a role model and a leader of the wider region now is to be noted out across the middle east christians are treated as you know sir court record and it's

a lot of oppression of christians so therefore turkey. has a special abound in. this protection of this. courtroom as the trial and for christians it does stand out as being a very negative development also dangerous for the rest of the region so but again it's not quite clear if it's meant i mean for the mystical audience or international. well i mean irrespective it is and it is making a an impact in the muslim world i mean you know i visited. it is a stupendous architectural achievement considering when it was founded and built but right across from it is the blue mosque which is an absolutely exquisite piece of architecture as well it seems to me that this is being made for political and even religious reasons because there's no shortage of mosques in turkey obviously and the blue mosque itself was built and designed as

a mosque itself in the huggett sophia. it was designed for very completely different purposes and i truly regret that the international community secular or otherwise doesn't want to step in and and exert some kind of pressure to preserve the essence and the origins and the meaning of this church and i think not and that's what's most regrettable in my book this is actually region because of course he's in fact age of caution from traditional muslim practice to convert a church into a mosque if you get back to the 7th century when the muslims captions jerusalem the patriarch of jerusalem christian patriarch invited the colleagues. to pray in the church of the only seppuku and he refused because he did know a long stick to convert the church of the whom he sent into a mosque he was consent of the interests of christians and also establishing

a new religion we had sent places of worship this is a departure from the tradition of his mom think it is also an assertion by. all the new policy of tacky which is to try to become the elite are all a form of this long since it's a signal all sex is that of a country which has been asserting its own. recently as the leader of this which is sound you rate the same turkey is now to really turn and it's very interesting to see the country search our lines saudi arabia in the muslim world like egypt egypt has a major role eastland. scholarship see all of the the islamic leadership we need chip has opposed this because they see it 1st isn't. but they also see it as

a challenge to these stoutish leadership all places like mecca and connor as a center is all these let me well so it's actually a very assertive step that guns done it puts you back in the tradition of the ultimates couper of cosc also claims leadership of islam when they were in that in the primary when they were the primary and at least leadership a sunni islam says it is a necessity step one which i didn't think is fully recognized in the west as it was a major challenges us and ken you're going to say you're absolutely right when you mention it's huge on tissue significance this is this church as an extraordinary. example of arts and again that is perhaps discounted and maybe.

being a little i don't get it about this but i mean if a major cost outside of the muslim world were converted into a church or secular i see be a huge outcry again i think this is a more of a comment on the. lack of faith in the west than is their dobson about their ideologies like secularism communism postmodernism criterium i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and out about short break we'll continue our discussion of state park .

we go to work so straight home. elderly forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the 1st law show your identification for should be very careful about artificial intelligence at that point obesity is too great and i trust every other than shia. currently taking on various child playing with artificial intelligence will summon the demon. a robot must protect its own existence as a excuse for the. class

kind of financial farang guy today was all about money laundering 1st to posit this confession to 3 different things. oh good this is a good start well we have our 3 banks all set up here maybe something in europe something in america something overseas in the cayman islands and a room full of these banks are complicit in the kleptocracy to decide to give mccomas a camera to do some serious money laundering ok let's see how we did while we've got a nice luxury watch for max and for stacey oh beautiful jewelry and how about the puck calogero a bill again from that you know what money laundering is highly illegal. watch has a record. welcome back to cross up were all things are considered i'm peter lavelle remind

you we're discussing some real. ok let's go back to alex in london we have this major diplomatic brouhaha are heating up over the north stream pipeline the gas line gas line from russia to germany but germans are still are updating in their heels here give us the background of the story mites and or well i don't know what stream is the latest pint lowing that's being built between russia which used to generate near the all the supply of natural gas to central europe it's the east built on loans to germany north stream long now there's an old stream to the understood street which is the sultan bought lonny partly these are intended clearly this is

a far away from the pipelines that went through ukraine but they're also a economic the economic construction which makes sense but as we hear it and for russia russia has lots of gas which he wants to sell central europe specially has need of gas which he wants to vote like what is now happening is that the united states is increasingly. against these economic developments and he's trying to block in the street just as he says trying to gloss why way in britain because he's trying to impose the law just. all the members of the western alliance he doesn't quote straight china doesn't want to thank the russia it wants to shake only with the united states all with each other and to separate themselves from the launching world and that exists in full

is openness lee provoking a very strong reaction in just me because it is going to be a blow to those germany's economic independence from the united states but he's also. going against germany's interests as a country that he's feeding more moral self-confidence and wants to such itself independently since it is obsessing about this ok look let me i know it's didn't mention probably the most important word and it mean i'm not and i'm not downplaying his wonderful answered my question here but the word sovereignty comes to mind here i mean the germans are expressing their right to sovereignty and they're all in energy security and not just germany's energy security but for central europe is this these 2 pipelines will essentially be a hub but this is something the united states of course i mean they want their european allies to buy liquefied natural gas from the united states ship sent by

ship that is far more expensive ok and i would like to point out to our viewers during the worst times of the cold war. europe important russian soviet and natural gas but that conflict is over let's let's what's in play here let's go ahead well it is interesting because several since the 2nd world war this set is huge and the presence and influence of the united states over a year as opposed to the day and to protect europe and indeed this recent. by the united states was to ensure p. and energy security so again it's america will be our protector however this kind of this ng to david a little bit from the latera because they're not going sanctioning the russians only another sanctioning state sanctioned europeans so it's like america is now the guarding of europe however. exactly what does it or read about souls or captive nations on the us or we merely in our children of the us must an issue if we're

unable to take care of ourselves so sanctioning european companies in order to keep european energy security it does seem a bit absurd and obviously ad and this is where you know the may conflict comes in between the u.s. and germany now as well so of course there are many contradictions therefore on the europeans i've been saying european security it's our energy security as a concept where they would have greater ownership over the infrastructure of their you know course insurance if your current form or forms however now that european companies are fearful of american sanctions a lot of this is not ending up with russia so it is unclear exactly what they're doing in denmark now so you know it's reasonable to speculate that they've been loosening restrictions lately only under german pressure and it is only because they want to finish it sooner now because it's either american sanctions are coming in so let's not drag this out let's finish it all so there is this very weird

dynamic at the moment and again the u.s. is very mush reacting to losing this economic levers of power salis on. i know that they have similarities with roy no of course the you know they haue taken the streets they're losing a bit over it so how different the dysfunction is their allies as well the russian energy section their allies your new transportation corridors well you're also threatening their european allies new investment banks their payment system you also threaten your own most of the more the u.s. loses its leverage you see the more it will use economic coercion not just against other serious are also allies and as alex put out puts a critically i guess that outcome is. dog sit up to come to the german to do more incentive not to not completely couple about least the 1st either ties and that is an interesting outcome the germans are now taking a stand against americas this is very unusual this is very much american

a result of their policies well alex it's some it's something that the u.s. has initiated i mean it's not germany looking for bad relations with the united states apart from it ok but i mean it's forcing the issue i mean germany is not a country that you trifle with ok i mean it's it's making sovereign decisions about its economy and it's thinking about the well being of the european union is well it's trading neighbors i mean the most amazing thing for me historically at least is that the last time we have this kind of blot discipline is when the when the comic con countries that the countries are in the soviet orbit they were forced to trade with got countries they know it was mandated from moscow ok and now and now you have the same kind of behavior being mimicked by washington because the more they do this the more they're pushing their trading partners away this is exactly the point and in fact what they gain she says it is that they can to encourage more

will come to this to find ways around the use the american dollar system biggest that she's been used to enforce the sanctions ultimately. asia is a self defeating exercise the whole country's you sanction and sanctions now almost out of control the united states sanctioning left right and center as glenn correctly said they're not sanctioning their allies the sanctioning companies oh they're not honest it is completely out of control more you do that the greater the incentive for more people to get together and find ways around the united states and that will ultimately undermine it all the system which is not in america's interest however the europeans have to some extent it's been very clear about his own selves because they joined. previous american sanctions exercises against him run against russia rings you sound it is way lower venezuela

exactly now to the hora they find it this way they hate to some extent helps to construct east mean used against them and this i think shams how misconceived some of those early of policy decisions actually europe which is a much more open in terms of trade defense germany is a country that's tense heavily on trade so does the netherlands so do other countries a year they should be extremely wary of going down sanctions routes the united states is a much more self-sufficient so content economy it can be seen geo political objectives of the europeans went along with it and now they're paying cross you know glad to have the argument that the administration the u.s. administration is making we've had it from donald trump and from like

a oh is it we can't detach all this from nato because it's much their own bridge you know you have a country like germany that wants to connect its energy fortunes with russia but russia is supposed to be the enemy and you need to be things putting more money and nato in for them you know you know for the germans to say you want to spend what money on nato but russia is our trading partner here and this is what drives trump and pompei or crazy because how can you be become a trading partner with an enemy why aren't you spending more money on nato and i'll tell you why the germans and most of the europeans say but there is no threat there that's why they don't want to spend the money on it we want to have trading relations because you know what russia is the largest consumer market in europe. and that's been one of the key challenges of the united states in the past there were you know leading military power and economic power but now they see it out there that their ability to convert their role as

a security product into this you don't do your economic loyalty to you know use their technologies their companies their you know that's not back there their course is actually weakening so so what did they do to try to make this link that if you if you depend on the store security this us to be are also expressed in your economic policies again not a very unreasonable proposition to make however as you point out that this idea that you know russia is waiting you know russian tanks waiting to roll into berlin like that no one really thinks that it's this great after it so you can hope they're rushing through it in order to create further security dependence and try to convert that into economical it is really it is it seems to be failing and making it worse it's not just it was just russia will be one thing but to do the same with with with the chinese and across the board so it's a it's becoming is and the americans are the mounding more and more and they're

capable of delivering less. you would think that some point they were going to change their ways because this is obviously pushing europeans away and if you get some actions are best when you use moderately and. and this excessive amount of sanctions the essential just teaching the rest of world to live without the united states and that's i think the lesson that you know the europeans are also picking up presidential candidate joe biden outflank trump and have a new buy america thing or strong as make america great again but you know i guess no other country can make themselves great again because they want to protect their sovereignty is only a one way street ok only one country can have sovereignty everyone else has to do with less well these are the 5 seconds go right this is exactly what the united states needs from last. as he has me for the last 30 years i mean ever since the so-called unity only moments happen the united states sees the world very much as

being the united states leadership and that most agents economic leadership and it doesn't want to see that challenge of course the question is whether other countries are prepared now to sacrifice their interests in order to keep the united states british position primaries every relationship has 2 parties at the very least ok and i think people in washington have to realize that the other party has an opinion too gentlemen that's all the time we have i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are the see you next time remember.

you cannot be involved with yeah you are. i 1st heard about we you know. from the helicopter trip in iraq. i think that down actually pulled in a minute i'm going to miss military who have never forgiven or. forgotten freighters the truth of the book and it will be it we saw he was really starting to have. independent journalists and that he's too dark to see a lot of crimes to outnumber the audience. the idea of developing an anonymous digital trumps and of clients to the media and since. that was

a friend's. going to get control interest and it would be for a short walk from the room one of the world's most powerful news a woman's very serious illness and a silver founder to the song good song knowing. that there was a great deal of jealousy in the minds for the song the fit why won't it be more like all they have hugh seems all. since me. since my. records. for. me have giuliani sides in solitary confinement in the prison for terrorists await you know how it's a live person. i don't see him dying. and i. know what he's saying.

the world is driven by a dream shaped by one person who goes but. no jerry thinks. we dare to ask. join me every thursday on the all excitement chill and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then.

and. more and more times than ever. the american city of portland turns into a war zone the still trump sends in federal agents to quash the unrest we look at this time 6 ok that used by previous presidents overseas to improve their reelection chances also paying for historical damages to cities in the u.s. 528 reparations for minority community and some leave that has been question myself . who's going to pay for it are you going to pay for a reason at all tax money probably out of all tax money but really end of dollars to come up with a payment for people who like you and they couldn't come up with a man.