in order to justify all the money printing the fed has to claim that they're fighting deflation. if wages go up that would be inflation and therefore they'd have to stop printing money which means i'd have to stop yelling out back and solve the zombie banks so by claiming that they're fighting deflation gives them cover to keep this continuous rolling bail out of the zombie. the u.k. suspends its extradition treaty with hong kong either face suspects would later be sent to mainland china aging is branded the move. in its internal. number of her. former. president don't translate his troops into the city of portland to quash on residents protest surrounding discrimination or police turn

takes continue in the view where. i. protest of the loss of where there was a colony in israel and the boils are that the government's handling of the pandemic and the alleged corruption of the prime minister. goes all the top headlines for this hour crosstalk is next on c.n.n. to national in the u.k. and ireland it's time for when a gaping. hole in the well. things are considered. one of the greatest if not the greatest church in the history. appreciator he will soon be converted into

a mosque what is the importance of the hobby of sophia and for whom and europe's energy security is not independence thanks in the balance. to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest like these and in oslo he's an associate professor at the university of southeastern norway as well as author of russia's geo economic strategy for greater eurasia and in london we're joined by how this enemy curacy is a writer on legal affairs as well as editor in chief of the duran dot com all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was appreciated ok let's go to glenn 1st there we have president erewhon of turkey announcing that one of the most important if not the most important church in the history of christianity will be converted into what's going on here what is

the importance of that church to. the political ambitions of say of the president of turkey what does it mean to christians all around the world in 2020 now go ahead bill. well it's one of the key religious buildings and christianity so but he did it or how did history and christianity but also for the muslims again it was it built into 6 centuries it was a cathedral and this lasted for almost a 1000 years he believed in eastern christianity zone for the orthodox christians until the amounts conquered. because of the nobility in 4053 and the convert it into a mosque now under other turkey in the early 20th century they made it into i'm you see it's part of that secular sation to make it into well as i should put it positioning it urges a secular state and also along with and or sister to be a good bridge between the east and west so imitating some of history but also being

more european so again i can understand why turkish muslims then would like to we will not care for the fact that our most casts been clear to me seem for almost a century and it would like to return to a place of worship however they shouldn't also recognize that for christians to have similar concerns a serious affair was not billed as a most ill that's a cathedral. and this kind of this is the national sovereignty of course of turkey to decide what it should do and how everything indicates what kind of country turkey will be obviously things like pluralism and respect for other faiths this doesn't really signal that this is our skipper to use a rather specific itself. well essentially history now represents one of conquests and subjugation of christians so it's it's i mean this bridge between east and west the seams turkey

a suspect or worse sitting itself on the front line and that clash of civilization by session it is stepping all over a christian landmark. by solely converting it to mosques now run the thing that. if you're not going to put us in we see if you can at least i was placed for christian scientists who are so far the turks i simply are you know it will be you know buddhists hindus increases their ok coming this is a tourist destination. but it's not of this sort of this nation it's our christian landmarks a country of the so going to miss the whole point about nearest central role as our cathedral you know it's a bit i think what glenn said it is and is well said because this is a obviously historically important to christianity however the nominal christian west was kind of coho about the whole thing i mean that there's very little.

reaction to a unilateral decision that critically sense turkey is under international obligations to be sensitive to the religious artifacts of other religions and now that seems been abrogated and and this tossed to a side go ahead i'll wait i mean i think this is pumped at the fact that christianity is not as important in the west as it once was in fact you see in the west increasingly not just the secular i say she's friends but perhaps tear i say it in some places and anti christian trends we she's been gaining full size and i think that these events does not have the significance in the west that he does over there he wants to act in the east and east and also doxie it's different i mean also doxie to a great extent actually develops in its present full as pawns hope the system of worship lets to place in this chip and it is as important tools of jokes christians

as say peter's basilica in rugby is to catholics say he's easy radek. full of events and the other concern that i think many orthodox christians would have is that of course he's full of treasures leftover from the time when he was a church their existence is inconsistent with it being a mosque there may come a day when he more militant form of this law decides that these christian symbols and christian art work and simply inconsistent with the present. there is another factor which i think is not be given the attention that he deserves which is that when adults made the decision to confess the church in the last back into the museum he was doing to say things firstly he was secular icing and

westernizing tacky now that he's being ruthless he was also doing something else which is that he was signaling to the neighboring countries the neighboring christian and former christian countries greece soviet union and all the rest of the turkey was intent on being a good name is very much part of kemo letter to extol assiut that's on the major red cross not with soviet union people tend to forget very major red cross more with greece now by who's facing this decision at the same time the gun is adopting a much more as security foreign policy that signals to many people in the in the area around that policy that adds it's cannot assert had is being abandoned is be pushed aside so it has the major resonance in the

east is not absent such great interest in the west glenn if there dylan making a statement to the muslim world i mean obviously he's made this decision because he can do it i mean if the sovereignty issue. in a modern sense but this is and he certainly doesn't care what the nominal christian countries of the west now say and and of course it's of an affront to to greece being the most important or the ducks country neighboring it and this is a message to the muslim world it is a kind of been a neo ottoman ism issue headline well and it becomes so a lot of us authorities. express this the cyrus take a bit of a leadership position in the role and again as you mentioned it's a neo modern and. their position is how it was to some extent this also influenced this all takes in syria i think it's been very gone and now i think this ability to essentially stand up to the international community and also stand up to the west

and say listen we will do as we want us to please. you with that are we to this case you know islam and in this fight against the western christianity i think you know that has some. cultural. value if you want and obviously this could have your negative cases for the wider region because if they really want to be kind of a role model and a leader of the wider region now is to be noted out across the middle east christians are treated as you know sir court record and it's a lot of question of christians so therefore target and. especially abound in. this protection of this. courtroom at the trial and for christians it does stand out as being a very negative development also dangerous for the rest of the region so but again it's not quite clear if it's meant i mean for the mystical audience or

international. well let's i mean irrespective it is and it is making a an impact in the muslim world i mean you know i visited. it is a stupendous architectural achievement considering when it was founded and built but right across from it is the blue mosque which is an absolutely exquisite piece of architecture as well it seems to me that this is being made for political and even religious reasons because there's no shortage of mosques in turkey obviously and the blue mosque itself was built and designed as a mosque itself in the huggett sophia. it was designed for very completely different purposes and i truly regret that the international community secular or otherwise doesn't want to step in and and exert some kind of pressure to preserve the essence and the origins and the meaning of this church and i think not and

that's what's most regrettable in my mother this is actually region because of course he's in fact age of caution from traditional muslim practice to convert it shouldn't she into a mosque if you get back to the 7th century when the muslims captions jerusalem the patriarch of jerusalem christian patriarch invited the colleagues. to pray in the church of the only settle and he refused because he didn't know a long stick to convert the church of the whom he sent into a mosque he was consent of the interests of christians and also establishing a new religion we had sent places of worship this is a departure from the tradition of his mom but he's also an assertion by. all the new policy of tacky which is to try to become the leader all the form of this long since it's a signal all sex is that of

a country which has been asserting its own. recently as the leader of this which is sound you arabia it's a turkey is now the real eternities and it's very interesting to see the countries the char lines saudi arabia in the muslim world like egypt egypt has a major role in eastland. scholarship see all of the the islamic leadership we need chip has opposed this because they see it 1st it isn't. but they also see it as a challenge to these stoutish leadership all places like mecca and connor as a center is all these let me well so it's actually a very assertive step that guns done it puts you back in the tradition of the ultimates couper of close close it claims leadership of islam when they

were in that in the primary when they were the primary and at least leadership is sunni islam says it is a necessity step one which i don't think is fully recognized in the west as well as a major challenge its use and ken you're going to say you're absolutely right when you mention it's huge on tuesday significance this is this church as an extraordinary. example of what's and again that is perhaps discounted and maybe. being a little i don't get it about this but i mean if a major cost outside of the muslim world were converted into a church or secularize to be a huge outcry again i think this is a more of a comment on the. lack of faith in the west than is their dobson about their ideologies like secularism communism postmodernism right gentlemen going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion of state

park. you cannot be vulgar with me yet you like. i 1st heard about we you know. from the helicopter of the tree in iraq. i think the town actually pulled in and i'm going to

its military who have never forgiven or. forgotten freighters the truth of the book and it will be giving you something he was really starting to have. in the pen journalese that he's too dark to see a lot of crimes to outnumber the audience. the idea of developing an anonymous digital phone and applying it to the media consensus makes sense that was affronts. going to do the torrent just right it would be for a short while from. one of the world's most powerful news a womanizer material sanderson and a silver founder to the song given some knowing. and there was a great deal of jealousy in the minds for the song the fit why won't it be more like oh they have q. seen all. since me. since my.

records. for. me have giuliani sides in solitary confinement in the prison for terrorists a way to keep the house alive for so. i don't see him dying. and i. know what he's going. welcome back to cross up where all things are considered i'm purell about to remind you we're discussing some real. ok let's go back to alex in london we have this major diplomatic brouhaha

are heating up over the north stream pipeline they gots line gas line from russia to germany but germans are still are updating in their heels here give us the background of the story mites and or can not stream suit is the latest pipeline that's been built between russia which used to be very clear the albeit supply of natural gas to central europe it's the east built pipelines to germany north stream one now there's no one to stream to them this type stream which is sultan bought lawdy partly these are intended clearly to john to this and far away from the pipelines that went through ukraine but they're also a economic the economic construction which makes sense but as we hear it and for russia russia has lots of gas which is wants to sell central years bestially has need of gas which it wants to vote like what is

now happening is that the united states is increasingly. against these economic developments and if he's trying to block in the street just as he has tried to block why way in britain because he's trying to impose the law to say all the members of the western alliance he doesn't trade china it doesn't want to try to russia it wants to trade only with the united states. all with each other and to separate insults from the launch will that exists in full is openness lee provoking a very strong reaction in just me because it is going to be a big load boost to germany's economic independence from the united states but he's also. going against germany's interests as

a country that he's feeling more moral self-confidence and wants to such itself independently since it is obsessing about this ok look let me i know it's didn't mention probably the most important word and it mean i'm not and i'm not downplaying his wonderful answered my question here but the word sovereignty comes to mind here i mean the germans are expressing their right to sovereignty and they're all in energy security and not just germany's energy security but for central europe is this these 2 pipelines will essentially be a hub but this is something the united states of course i mean they want their european allies to buy liquefied natural gas from the united states ship sent by ship that is far more expensive ok and i would like to point out to our viewers during the worst times of the cold war. europe imported russian soviet and natural gas but that conflict is over let's let's what's in play here let's go ahead oh it

is interesting because several since the 2nd world war this set is huge and the presence and influence of the united states over a year as opposed to the day to protect europe and indeed this recent. by the united states was to ensure p. and energy security so again it's america will then be our protector however this kind of this ng to david a little bit from the plot here because they're not going sanctioning the russians all in other sanctioning sanctioned europeans so it's like america is now the guardian the bureau however. exactly what does it all read about souls or captive nations of the us or we merely in our children of the us must an issue if we're unable to take care of ourselves so sanctioning european companies in order to keep european energy security it does seem a bit absurd and obviously ad and this is where you know the make conflict comes in between the u.s. and germany now as well so of course in many contradictions there are on the

european side been saying european security. energy security as a concept where they would have greater ownership over the infrastructure that you know course insurance if your current form or forms however now that european companies are fearful of american sanctions a lot of this is not ending up with russia so it is unclear exactly what they're doing in denmark now so you know it's reasonable to speculate that they've been loosening restrictions lately only under german pressure and it is only because they want to finish it sooner ringback now because this either american sanctions are coming in so let's not drag this out let's finish it off so there is this very weird dynamic at the moment and again the u.s. is very much for reacting to losing this economic levers of power salis on. i know that they have similarities with roy no of course the you know they haue taken the streets they're losing 'd a bit over it so how different the dysfunction is their allies as well the russian

energy section their allies your new transportation corridors well you're also threatening their european allies new investment banks their payment system you also threaten your own most of the more the u.s. loses its leverage you see the more it will use economic coercion not just against other serious are also allies and as alex put out puts a critically i guess that outcome is. dog sit up to countries like germany more incentive not to not completely the couple about at least the 1st fighter types. and that is an interesting outcome the germans are now taking a stand against americas this is very unusual this is very much the american result they're also this well alex it's some it's something that the u.s. has initiated i mean it's not germany looking for bad relations with the united states apart from it ok but i mean it's forcing the issue i mean germany is not

a country that you trifle with ok i mean it's it's making sovereign decisions about its economy and it's thinking about the well being of the european union is well it's trading neighbors i mean the most amazing thing for me historically at least is that the last time we have this kind of blot discipline is when the when the comic-con countries that they countries are in the soviet orbit they were forced to trade with got countries they know it was mandated from moscow now ok and that and now you have the same kind of behavior being mimicked by washington because the more they do this the more they're pushing their trading partners away this is exactly the point and in fact what they gain she says it is that they can to encourage more will come to this to find ways around the use the american dollar system because that she's multi-speed used to enforce the sanctions ultimately. asia is a self-defeating exercise the whole country's you sanction and sanctions now almost out of control of the united states sanctioning left right and center as glenn

correctly said they're not sanctioning their allies the sanctioning companies oh they're not honest it is completely out of control more you do that the greater the incentive for more people to get together and find ways around the united states and that will ultimately undermines all the system which is not in america's interest however the europeans have to some extent it's been very clear about this own selves because they joined. previous american sanctions exercises against didn't run against russia rings you sound it is way lower venezuela exactly nothing to that hora they find it this way they hate to some extent helps to construct east mean used against them and this i think shows how misconceived some of those early of policy

decisions actually europe which is a much more open in terms of trade it depends german it is a country that's tense heavily on trite so does the netherlands so do other countries a year they should be extremely wary of going down sanctions routes the united states is a much more self-sufficient so consent economy it can be seen geo political objectives of the europeans went along with it and now they're paying cross you know glad to have the argument that the administration the us administration is making we've had it from donald trump now and from like a oh is it we can't detach all this from nato because it's much their own bridge you know you have a country like germany that wants to connect its energy fortunes with russia but russia's supposed to be the enemy and you need to be things spending more money and nato in for them you know you know that for the germans you say you want to spend

what money on nato but russia is our trading partner here and this is what drives trump and pompei or crazy because how can you be become a trading partner with an enemy why aren't you spending more money on nato and i'll tell you why the germans and most of the europeans like but there is no threat there that's why they don't want to spend the money on it we want to have trading relations because you know what russia is the largest consumer market in europe. and that's been one of the key challenges of the united states in the past they were you know leaving military power and economic power but now they see it out there that their ability to convert their role as a security product into this you don't geoeconomic loyalty to you know use their technologies their companies their you know that's in the back there their course is actually weakening so so what did they do to try to make this link that if you if you depend on the source security this has to be also expressed in your economic

policies again not a very unreasonable proposition to make however as you point out that this idea that you know russia is waiting you know russian tanks waiting to roll into berlin no one really thinks that it's disparate so you can hide their russian threat in order to create further security dependence and try to convert that into economic loyalties but really it is it seems to be failing and making it worse not just it was just russia will be one thing but they're doing the same with with with the chinese and across the board so it's a it's becoming is and the americans are the mounting more and more and they're capable of delivering less. you would think that at some point they were going to change their ways because this is obviously pushing europeans away and if you get sanctions are best when you use moderately and. and this excessive amount of sanctions the essential just teaching rest of the world to live without the united

states and that's i think the lesson that you know the europeans aren't speaking up to us though the interesting thing is real tradition appropriately alex is that you know we had presidential candidate joe biden outflank trump and have a new buy america thing or strong has make america great again but you know i guess no other country can make themselves great again because they want to protect their sovereignty is only a one way street ok only one country can have sovereignty everyone else has to do with less. well this is 35 seconds go right this is exactly what the united states has for loss of free speech for the last 30 years and ever since the so-called unity only moments happened the united states sees the world very much as the united states leadership and that most agents economic leadership and it doesn't want to see that challenge of course the question is whether other countries are prepared now to sacrifice interests in order to keep the united states

british position primaries every relationship has 2 parties at the very least ok and i think people in washington have to realize that the other party has an opinion gentlemen that's all the time we have i want to thank our viewers for watching us here see an xterm remember. join me every thursday on the alex salmond's show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics or business i'm showbusiness i'll see of them.