time after time they were going underground amid the publication of the much anticipated u.k. intelligence and security committees russia report into alleged russian meddling in the 2016 directed referendum and 2017 general election coming up in the show as nato nations pour money into big pharma to secure a vaccine for covert 1000 is the real answer for now something much cheaper less sophisticated and easier to prevent perhaps 120000 dying in britain this winter the discoverer of hiv one of the world's most important biomedical plan is dr robert gallo tells us one answer to coronavirus plus as u.s. secretary of state pompei or the man who defamed war crimes publisher wiki leaks flies into london to meet boris johnson is the usa meddling with the u.k. justice system accused of torturing julian assange we speak to vivienne westwood after she suspended a cell phone

a giant bird cage above the old bailey can actually see that there was in the run up to the referendum a preponderance of until you pull breaks it pieces on to and sputnik what the report does not do is make any criticism of any individual program a cold commentator present or that's not what this is of no mention of going underground in britain's finally released no redacted russia reports oliseh more coming up in today's going underground but 1st as more and more people go back to a life pre-code with 19 or hopes for a vaccine obscuring the imminent threat posed by a so-called winter spike that could cause another 120000 coronavirus deaths in the u.k. where the world's most respected virologist dr robert gallo who is pivotal in discovering the link that hiv has to aids suggests that a much cheaper option a polio vaccine could be used as a stopgap until a grown a virus vaccine. found he joins me now via skype from baltimore in the united

states thanks so much robert coming on before we even get to the perils of seeking medicine become a death 19 and a vaccine for hiv both of which we hope will come just tell me about dr fauci one died a few days ago yes sure she was brilliant and. curse of earring in tough problems and resilient resilient to the ups and downs that go in basic experimental medical science she came to me as a postcard gruffalo in the early ninety's certainly salute your believe it was in the in a very short time it was clear that she would be a very important cog in offered or permitted to zisha here there are many many good cause doctor of those who agree that kind of a great group and a significant sized group a group into that i think she was at the top of the list well that i think i think of it if you with her when she says that when she began working on this have people

didn't believe in the human retrovirus as an industry is it i thought i had a very tough time in the 1970 s. when you know she came right in the middle of that kind of whirlwind controversy yes there were just a couple laps of the world that continued this kind of search we had to do some research that was standard you know that we were interested in but that would not be. controversial or there were other elements finance courses that shows how science changes because the evidence suggested antibodies for covert die out that's what the evidence seems to be suggesting right now does that mean the scientists changed since we were talking about herd immunity on this program and in fact top government scientists here in britain were talking about herd immunity and a pointless strategy against coronavirus yes no yes i really think that could have been there. was early warnings about that let me say this number one the structure

of the coronavirus spike is very similar in some respects to hiv kind of spike protein the heavy sugar coating of the protein itself in men outside chain suggested to us that this could only be a short lived antibody response to it we had learned a lot about this and focused our research on it in the last 567 years actually maybe longer a why these antibodies don't last long and we kind of i don't want to say we were up there yelling and making predictions but among ourselves we really said these antibodies pleaded have been yelling arguably nothing in the whole people hearing about it can't be sure but one thing that added to that is that the seasonal coronaviruses that cause the common cold which are related to sars to this pandemic virus they were shown by i think was a dutch group months ago did not less than the chinese evidence without yelling it was also indicated that these were not going to last so you know i used to make some killing jokes you know live by this bite you die by this bite but on the other

hand you know because i didn't think it would last they won't give durable immunity the paper really which i consider one of the strongest paper i've seen and the action is very well done and very thoughtful and they they had the sense to also look at t. cells which would know most people have not been thinking of in terms of this by these kind of proteins usually you don't think of so much for getting a big piece of his and i have to you have to describe the difference between the life of sites and i should just add of course most vaccine research is apparently targeting the antibodies that the has you say die out of this i'll check a there is news that ted talks about if he has particular that is that they really hit hard also on the t. cells and i'll say what the t. cells are but keep in mind when we make of that seen candidate and that's what we have to make keep in mind all the time when you hear news these are candidates you don't know you have a vaccine and the avalon very often we have protect the vaccines they protect but we don't know why we thought maybe it would be at the body so called neutralizing antibodies then i'm glad we. they didn't give it the virus but when the end comes

that often is we have no correlate all the most common correlation is we don't know and so the but there's 2 types of what we call the adaptive immune response which classical back scenes involve one of of the lymphocyte called the piece of they make antibodies and then t. cells a different kind of lymphocyte as you know they help by doing a variety of things including releasing molecules there are regulatory in nature that do things that can inhibit the virus but they also have in in the group of t. cells are killer t. cells and they will kill virus infected cells and if you have enough of them and if they can hit the variation of the virus as the viruses mutate then you can have a very effective that scene because they likely will be more durable and the outer group showed that those t. cells are more durable of course those in oxford and those working on other vaccines are going the big multinational big pharma companies all saying. we are

some way off yet until we get that vaccine you've suggested something so cheap so ubiquitous not perhaps in some developing countries despite there or you may quickly yes yes i have the oral polio vaccine not limited to that in theory because there are others that have been shown that have been shown effective in preventing other viral diseases michigan of the polish or the q the that's right now it's a tablet without sugar so it is they don't want to get obesity right. but the but an 80 vaccine doesn't have to be oral but it has to be lived like an attenuated so as not to cause disease has been shown to protect across the board when it was 1st described in singapore and in russia it was referred to as interference virus interfering with another virus in really right at that time came the discovery of interference with. i think so got its name from that and interfering is part of

this immune response it's called in native unity it's what invertebrates have and the only thing they have is an immediate response it's within hours not days weeks or months and it's highly effective at hitting them a wide variety of infectious agents with measles with b c g p c d's not i don't think it's effective and cost too much and you have to inject it. in is not as available but the oral polio vaccine look at prevented flu in russia and in singapore better than the flu vaccines did in the 1970 s. discovered by that human core family then and look this is as safe as anything and anybody who or why do you think i mean isn't there i mean there's obviously money to be made out of a much more complex molecular and alice s a how to a combat coronavirus is it a money thing because this is not something you can make money out of because you've really said that something like that could at least enable people to get

back to work or has that ended the on that hasn't because of the edward infection risk i really don't know we've received a lot of enthusiasm when i presented my readers edited for the committee that n h organize the so-called work speed committee and the scientific advisory group you know i can only tell you very positive when we were site visit by a group from an age 14 people who are very excited when i talk to barbara feel the c.d.c. very very positive enthusiastic doctor a few days ago still is the one to get funding from an agency ended didn't get funded for clinical trial so we turned to the u.s. army and a collaboration with a group in actually in london for delivered infection not with the sars to but with the the seasonal coronaviruses which should not cause any harm they would cause the common cold and the flu once again and deliberately show upon infection that we could prevent that to get the noise built up again i a mean everybody agrees that we. enthusiasm it's cheap $0.15 it's

a pill it's available it's so feasible it's safe and when people are brought up we'll see it is that the other we've been able to easily counter it there is no problem with safety the government here came on a criticism for confusing the coronavirus in the 1st place with seasonal flu in terms of its reaction to it you're sure you're not confusing polio with corona virus no of course not well i mean come on it has people will be surprised when some experience you know any of the 75 viruses where you are from such you know you are actually fighting for your offices are said to achieve so i think offices have a temper that you might just have to explain perhaps if you see how it actually happened actually where it calio virus protects against polio of course that's by your classic vaccines of adaptive immune response which takes some weeks you get antibodies some you know you get the maybe longer to get the right antibodies your

t. cell response and it's the civic for the virus in question what happens is we have sensors in our cells for any form r.n.a. or d.n.a. when you see the foreigner in a you react immediately and you set up cytokines like interferon and other cells that are called in k. t. cells other killer t. cells that don't require the depth of immune response that gives the sophists and they just say react now protect the enemies at the gate we've got to swallow it it is said right now that the vets who live with coronaviruses do so mainly if not solely through the innate immune system it is known that interferon is really hits hard this particular virus it is known that viruses have you know minimal genetic information they don't like to give any of it up but the coronaviruses in this case are astute this pandemic virus has given up some of this genetic information just to avoid d.n.a. to me in system so the innate immune system is an. regency response that crosses

various viruses we are pretty confident it would get a 6 months of emissions i do think it might get us out closer to a year i can't promise that but what you're struck the data strongly suggest you can get several months out of this and be available for the 4 are where with the flu vaccine it could also be greatly helpful for influenza well we can devote a whole program to your work on h i've even i think i can hear on the show i got to ask you just one quick question i mean 14000000 according to the un aids and geo saying 40000000 have a chevy and 2019. why is it that there are 40000000 people far more than with coronavirus currently living with a shiny because they don't have enough education that's convincing enough people that are hard to reach whether it be african-american or hispanic community for example in the united states or whether it be some other parts of the world

obviously and especially parts of africa. it's the it requires an enormous amount of medical health education we in our institute in baltimore and it's the majority a part of the university of maryland school of medicine are in 8 different african countries we would be in none if it wasn't for the former president bush creating the president's emergency program for its relief so it's a function of inequality not medical science. that's right yes of course we have this group in baltimore that we can never reach and it goes on and on the matter what we do even with clinics in the outlying areas so it's a trouble of education it's a problem of reaching families it's a problem that at stations of these causes and having more people. to help in this medically. dr alex thank you ok you're very welcome after the break what actually was in the long delayed russia report now released by the intelligence and security committee of the british parliament we often the daily mail's consultant

editor at jupiter and vic an area in the coal mine for the future of free speech ahead of the anniversary of the publishing of the afghan war logs which revealed evidence of us war crimes we'll ask a question i go on vivienne westwood if there's any hope for the world's most famous publisher julian assange only a small coming over but 2 off going underground. ah no team no crowd. no shots. actually well to be. dragged no 1st. point should your thirst for action.

according to even fox news trying is like going to the polls is this because joe biden is such a brilliant candidate or because the harmony consensus that tend to make has been badly handled by the president still another the trump brand is a populist in 2016 is he governed as one. welcome back in the past 24 hours the so-called russia report has been released by the british intelligence and security committee and while the biggest target of the report appears to be the u.k. government and intelligence services some journalists children see any smoking gun that implicates u.k. prime minister bars johnson one of those the daily mail consultant as a 100 piers he joins me now via skype from london or thanks so much for coming back on so less of there being no smoking gun as they're not looking for smoking guns

probably well i mean this was this was and if you just talked to some labor m.p.'s at all the election when this report was actually suppressed 5 or johnson they thought there was obviously enough in there that could potentially bring him down it was in a pretty do and glue it was going to show that russian intelligence conspired with him to get grex it done as you know i voted for greg i have to tell you i wasn't persuaded by anybody in russia it would be moscow just have my great british in stay do whatever i tell you surely know but it's forrest johnson did suppress the report and he said clearly when he presumably read it that there is no evidence of meddling for any elections whatsoever so well is this just criticism of one why did he want to suppress it that there's another series to be up to go back to the report the intelligence report that suggests that there was russian attempts to interfere in the scottish referendum that when scotland voted to remain in parts of

the united kingdom something i was very pleased about and they said as for the referendum committee said there wasn't enough effort by boris johnson's reason may to try and establish the pair was any and spits rusty so it's not a completely invalid help if sense that there was a lot of frustration in the intelligence community that they couldn't find anything more substantial than that one reason one theory why they wouldn't publish the report soon enough for 10. they hated it with a vengeance the chairman and the man who dominic greet was the attorney general last september he was one of those trends you were on the orient gays were kicked out of by bars johnson because they kept rocking the boat and they didn't want to give you news day in giving that give him his 15 minutes of fame as borehole might say not least because equal and to run as an independent against the tory cancer in the december general election that's just one siri another theory is he just

couldn't recall that the president had his julian lewis and the way they're all talking about the report afterwards at the press conference they exaggerated presenters on this channel didn't mention our actual name but they in the report they seem to be saying m i 5 initially provided just 6 lines of text why this antagonism between the intelligence services intelligence and security committee and m i 5 that is after all of us we're protecting as the job of that committee is to give an independent oversight in some of the activities of the intelligence services m i 5 and m i 6 c's way and so there's also an uncomfortable relationship between them because they don't always agree with what's going on we don't know a lot what's going on because as you would have seen that box i'm sure you read it from up the other kind of the rest of it was a lot of it was redacted so they are privy to lots of intelligence secrets that we will never know about so has always been and of course you know this is coming

as the new germany is not the chairman numbered sundowns or do they want it chris grayling the former tribes who were just the secretary known universe against failing grade as he was a minister in the internal politics i thought that i was going to read about. if you believe the manichean the evil russian oligarch riri their names in this report the only political party donor i could see was aaron banks in. you mention breck said we're going on with that why no russian names wages are in banks it wasn't just that the report also criticizes the house of lords where they point out is a number of members of the suit got extensive business interests in russia with russian businessmen and women but it doesn't name them and i could name them one or 2 of them i'm so i think i would sooner i thought they were talking about and as you say any person name is out banks who was accused by his many enemies of being

perhaps even in receipt of money from russia questionis systems he was a footnote in the report and they found absolutely no evidence whatsoever he colluded with organised by russian intelligence so he is rather cleats well and there were rumors that he was trying to get in trouble again i don't know why people wanted to suppress the report i shared a stage of chris grayling and disappears dumber actually and in the run up to the report labor seem to be fretting over the accusations of the n.h.s. dossier that was a use of the $29000.00 election they were worried about that because it appeared that that could have come from russia it's been denied it came from russia where is that all gone all of that missing from the record well that was a clever piece of spin by the tories so if you recall in the election jeremy cog in a very the most hard left left wing labor lead to that we've had in decades roundish these bits of paper which he said showed that dastardly tories were

involved in a dusty block that just a few president jumped to flog off parts of the n.h.s. which would mean we have to pay more of a more expensive drug spell now that report had been on the internet that's why colin got it wrong the suggestion was russians promoted it to attention to it and that they used and that gerry called an activist the kremlin's useful idiots well east wasn't particularly useful it yet. just a bit. but that didn't appear in the report anyway because it was no that that suggestion of the day on tween america and trump. the british government was all over the internet corbin refuses to come on this program he denies being in idiot i presume but isn't that what that isn't is the problem with what you just said the only in the in the eve of the release of this report tories were

voting to save the united states could effectively destroy our national health service during a pandemic the united states and up and get ads on the n.h.s. the price i mean even the man i'm not explicitly related to that i was voted out it's not going to happen telling it the tories and under this prime minister after what's happened with an demick up what happened impersonate you know jesse is going to be awash with cash and has to these members of this i s c committee why do you think they would proudly put christopher steele's name as the expert witness the famous golden shower man ever against trump who. an english court has just ordered him to pay damages to rich russian bankers for defaming them and libeling them you know and of course he's the author he's seen is the ultimate conspiracy as i think it was very unusual a very odd that they did that in a report that was conspicuous in having very few names in it and you they were trying to well now just ignore the rest of the report i mean there are supposedly

things in it saying yeah now there's going to be another full review on russian interference in civics or you know say look this is giving the government a clean bill of health it's given me a clean bill of health in the referendum now he won't allow on that night and i don't really know that there's that much material in that the leader of the opposition much trouble what the best you can say is aging heart and russian and parents well why didn't the labor party well the report came out just. mike pompeo touchdown. in london and then went right timing dominic i'm not sure what bombay 0 would say about the report but around the world people are obviously thinking why breck's it is britain went to antagonize the greatest economic superpower of the century china it's trying to attack russia and was worth trying to sending an aircraft carrier to china what exactly is the post directed vision of a government that wants to antagonize these huge countries i don't think we're

antagonizing china i think we're just sticking up for the interests of british past desert area in hong kong but this and again aircraft carrier to china's maritime border as well what's the point of that it's to look tough and to talk tough and the fact is you can't deny the fact china has passed a law that goes completely against the spirit of the 1984 agreement which fact just signed with china about the hondo law the national though they asked is repressive its totality and it's undemocratic which is why we say it's up to 3000000 people non-colored suppose you could potentially come and live in britain i think it's quite reassuring to see a british foreign secretary saying yours to china we know you are important trading partners but we are not going to be pushed there on we don't particularly like the way they conducted themselves and it couldn't be anybody believes the official death toll in china and there's still that speech can still that suspicion wretched thing started in a bar or 2 in china anyway because china was also bullying the world health

organization in january to suggest that there was no link no suggestion that infection could at the trouble tween animals and humans not true china would refute all of that we invited trainers ambassador to london and your peers thank you great to talk to you. well one issue britain's much erald in russia report mentions my name is wiki leaks revelations of the us democratic national committee's attempts to destroy bernie sanders 2016 presidential campaign it has been widely reported in nader nation media that it was somehow evidence that wiki leaks founder julian assange is a russian assets currently being tortured by u.k. authorities in belmarsh prison in london according to the un is expected to be back in the u.k. courts in september he's not been forgotten by pioneering fashion designer vivienne westwood going underground fine ahmed's went down to the old bailey to ask what she thinks of accusations it is a russian asset well everything spain everything i've ever heard the press ever says about coogan is

a love i and when if the lattes lied to about him already with regard to russia and so i'm assuming that this is just another you know. bit of rubbish added to the back to the last time that i spoke to you of course are very different circumstances jeremy called and last boris johnson in the u.s. now joe biden has called for joining us on a digital terrorist so is there really any hope now for joining us on how to be liberated from extradition to our state what the e.u. while they american so doing is they are trying to fake the victim to the crime and they're inventing crimes in order to fit them to the victim and so they're making these toll all rubbish crimes as is the example you've just given me it's not a crime to be digital estate you know i mean and it's not a crime at a federal judge payloads we kill leaks right to

publish. information illegally acquired information whistle blowing is late go. it is the truth and that's what it's all a part in america's trying to stop this procedure if america is allowed to take a person who's not american he's all strayed ian and and and say we need him because we need to put him in jail because he told the truth about america what's to stop that he may approach in saying the suppression just come to visit us in moscow arrest him because hey ok not a russian citizen case a frenchman but he told the truth about russia and so we're going to put him in

jail for life but what's to stop people doing this this is insane it's absolutely insane all symbolism between the canary in the cage during assad well it is that a net was cast to trap truly and when he formed wiki leaks right from the beginning and they've set him up on stage. and it has been a collusion of governments doing this possibly worldwide you know i'm not saying china necessarily but america. even europe they've they've colluded in this because corruption is institutional and endemic throughout the whole whoa and so we've got to break this corruption. setting a truth teller free say it live in west with us reading the social media produce a fine homage down at the old bailey and that's it for the show we'll be back on

saturday 10 years to the day wiki leaks published the afghan war diary which revealed evidence of u.s. war crimes until then wash your hands join the underground on you tube twitter sometimes it's got a facebook. god no team no crowd. no shots. back she. was dry note the 1st. point she your thirst for action. problem drugs don't always come from unscrupulous dealers but from pharmacies to in every state in the united states we see me very sharp increase in the number of

people seeking treatment for addiction to prescription opioids oids invented america under the banner of medicine persisted with the pain but instead of trying to wean him off though she just goes after dose after dose after dose and really became his drug dealer so who's to blame patients doctors manufacturers all the governments of. the headlines an aussie you can insist russia is a top security priority after its intelligence committee accuses london of activity ignoring russia's meddling in british politics we get reaction from people in london. i can't take the package to date so why should the yes. it's going to continue with that photo a shot of bush was.