payer the man who defamed war crimes publisher wiki leaks flies into london to meet boris johnson is the usa meddling with the u.k. justice system accused of torturing julian assange we speak to vivienne westwood doctor she suspended a self in a giant bird cage above the old bailey. we actually see that there was in the run up to the referendum a preponderance of until you pull brags pieces on to inspect make what the report does not do is make any criticism of any individual program make of commentator present or that's not what this is a by no mention of going underground in britain's finally released no redacted russia report oliseh more coming up in today's going underground 1st as more and more people go back to a life precocious 19 our hopes for a vaccine obscuring the imminent threat posed by a so-called winter spike that could cause another 120000 coronavirus deaths in the

u.k. one of the world's most respected virologist dr robert gallo who is pivotal in discovering the link that hiv has to aids suggests that a much cheaper option a polio vaccine could be used as a stopgap until a grown a virus vaccine is found he joins me now via skype from baltimore in the united states thanks so much robert for coming on before we even get to the perils of seeking meds in the go ahead 19 and a vaccine for hiv both of which we hope will come just tell me about dr fauci one shall we died a few days ago yes sure she was really. really curse of their infant in tough problems and resilient resilient to the ups and downs that go in basic experimental medical science she came to me as a coast guard rufo in the early ninety's certainly certainly through a believe it was in the in a very short time it was clear that she would be a very important cog in the of her permanent position. there are many many good

post-doc of those who agree on a great group and a significant sized group a group into that i think she was at the top of the list well that i think i think of it have you with her when she says that when she began working on this have people didn't believe in the human retrovirus as an industry is it i thought i had a very tough time in the 19 seventies and you know she came right in the middle of that kind of whirlwind controversy yes there were just a couple laps of the world that continued this kind of search we had to do some research that was standard you know that we were interested in but that would not be. controversial all around the relevant finance courses and that shows how science changes because evidence suggested antibodies for covert die out that's what the evidence seems to be suggesting right now does that mean the scientists changed since we were talking about herd immunity on this program and in fact

top government scientists here in britain were talking about herd immunity and a pointless strategy against coronavirus yes no yes i really think that could have been a and there was early warnings about that let me say this number one the structure of the coronavirus spike is very similar in some respects to hiv kind of by protein the heavy sugar coating of the protein itself in men outside change suggested to us that this could only be a short lived antibody response to it we had learned a lot about this in focus our research on it in the last 567 years actually maybe longer a why these antibodies don't last long and we kind of i don't want to say we were up there yelling and making predictions but among ourselves we really said these antibodies pleaded have been yelling arguably all you have 1000 people hearing about it can't be sure but one thing that added to that is that the seasonal coronaviruses that cause the common cold which are related to sars to this pandemic virus they were shown by i think was a dutch group. so ago did not less than

a chinese evidence without yelling it was also indicated that these were not going to last so you know i used to make some killing jokes you know lived by this by the by by the by but on the other hand you know because i didn't think it would last they won't give durable immunity the paper really which i consider one of the strongest paper i've seen and that and that actually is very well done and very thoughtful and they they had the sense to also look at t. cells which we know most people have not been thinking of in terms of the spike in these kind of proteins usually you don't think of so much for getting a big piece so he's unhappy you have to describe the difference between the life of sites and i should just add of course most vaccine research is apparently targeting the antibodies that the has you say die out so this our 2nd paper is news that ted talks about as he says particular that is that they really hit hard also on the t. cells and i'll say what the t. cells are but keep in mind when we make of that scene candidate and that's what we have to make keep in mind all the time when you hear news these are candidates you

don't know you have a vaccine anti average very often we are protect the vaccines they protect the we don't know why we thought maybe it would be at the body so called literal izing at the bodies then i'm glad we demonstrated at the virus but when the end comes it often is we have no correlate all the most common correlation is we don't know and so the but there's 2 types of what we call the adaptive immune response which classical back seems involved one of of the lymphocyte called a piece of a mic antibodies and then t. cells a different kind of lymphocyte as you know they help by doing a variety of things including releasing molecules there are regulatory in nature that do things that can inhibit the virus but they also have in in the group of t. cells are killer t. cells and they will kill virus infected cells and if you have enough of them and if they can hit the variation of the virus as the viruses mutate then you can have a very. effect of that scene because they likely will be more durable and the after

group showed that those t. cells are more durable of course those in oxford and those working on other vaccines including the big multinational big pharma companies all saying. we're some way off yet until we get that vaccine you've suggested something so cheap so ubiquitous not perhaps in some developing countries despite their ubiquity yes yes i have the oral polio vaccine not limited to that in theory because there are others that have been shown that have been shown effective in preventing other viral diseases michigan of the polish or the q the that's right now it's a tablet without sugar so it is they don't want to get obesity read. but the but an a vaccine doesn't have to be oral but it has to be live like an attenuated so as not to cause disease has been shown to protect across the board when it was 1st

described in singapore and in russia it was referred to as interference virus interfering with another virus in really right at that time came the discovery of interference which is i assume got its name from that interference part of this immune response it's called in native unity it's what invertebrate 7 the only thing they have is an immediate response it's within hours not days weeks or months and it's highly effective at hitting the a wide variety of infectious agents with measles with b c g p c d's not i don't think it's effective and cost too much and you have to inject it. in it's not as available but the oral polio vaccine look at prevented flu in russia and in singapore better than the flu vaccines did in the 1970 s. discovered by that human family then and look this is as safe as anything and anybody who why do you think i mean is it a i mean there's obviously. i need to be made out of

a much more complex molecular analysis of how to a comeback or devices in a money thing because this is not something you can make money out of because you really said that something like that could at least enable people to get back to work i have said and then on that hasn't yet because of the edward infection risk i really don't know we've received a lot of enthusiasm when i presented my readers edited for the committee that in age organize the so-called work speed committee in the scientific advisory group you know i can only tell you very positive when we were site visit by a group from an age 14 people are very excited when i talk to barbara feel the c.d.c. very very positive enthusiastic doctor a few days ago still is the one to get funding from an agency ended didn't get funded for clinical trial so we turned to the u.s. army and a collaboration with a group in actually in london for delivered infection not with the sars to but with the the seasonal grind of arse's which would not cause any harm they would cause

the common cold and the flu once again and deliberately show upon infection that we could prevent that to get the noise built up again i amy everybody agrees it with enthusiasm it's cheap $0.15 it's a pill it's a vailable it's so feasible it's safe and when people have brought up all worlds it is that the other we've been able to easily counter there is no problem with safety the government here came under criticism for confusing the coronavirus in the 1st place with seasonal flu in terms of its reaction to it you're sure you're not confusing polio with corona virus. no course not i mean come on it has people will be surprised when some experience you know any of the 75 viruses where you are from a sense you know you are actually 5 if you offices are said to achieve so i think offices have a temp you might just have to explain perhaps if you see how it actually had

actually more it calio virus protects against polio of course that's by your classic vaccines of adaptive immune response which takes some weeks you get antibodies some you know you get the maybe longer to get the right and the body's your t. cell response and it's specific for the virus in question what happens is we have sensors in our cells for any foreign r.n.a. or d.n.a. when you see the foreigner in a you react immediately and you set up cytokines like interferon and other cells that are called in k. t. cells other killer t. cells that don't require the depth of immune response that gives the sophists and they just say react now protect the enemies at the gate we've got to swallow it it is said right now that the bats who live with coronaviruses do so mainly if not solely through the innate immune system it is known that interferon is really hits hard this particular virus it is known that viruses have you know minimal genetic

information they don't like to give any of that up but the corona viruses in this case are astute this pandemic virus has given up some of this genetic information just to avoid d.n.a. to me in system so the innate immune system is an emergency response that crosses various viruses we're pretty confident it would get a 6 months ok well yes i do think it might get us out closer to a year i can't promise that but what you're struck the data strongly suggest you can get several months out of this and being available for the 4 are where with the flu vaccine it could also be greatly helpful for influenza well we can devote a whole program to your work on h i've even i think i hear when you're on the show i. no i ask you just one quick question i mean 14000000 according to the un aids and g.a.o. saying 40000000 have h i.v. and 2019. why is it that there are 40000000 people far more than with coronavirus currently living with hiv because we don't have enough education that's convincing

enough people that are hard to reach whether it be african-american or hispanic community for example in the united states or whether it be some other parts of the world obviously and especially parts of africa. it's the it requires an enormous amount of medical health education we in our institute in baltimore and it's the majority a part of the university of maryland school of medicine are in 8 different african countries we would be in none if it wasn't for the former president bush creating the president's emergency program for its relief so it's a function of inequality not medical science. that's right yes of course we have this group in baltimore that we can never reach and it goes on and on the matter what we do even with clinics in the outlying areas so it's of trouble with education it's a problem of reaching families it's a problem oh good at station to these causes and having more people. to help in

this medically. dr agalloch like you ok you're very welcome after the break what actually was in the long delayed russia report now released by the intelligence and security committee of the british parliament we often the daily mail's consulted editor at jupiter and the canary in the coal mine for the future of free speech ahead of the anniversary of the publishing of the afghan war logs which revealed evidence of u.s. war crimes we'll ask fashion icon vivienne westwood if there's any hope for the world's most famous publish on june the n.s.a. all this of all coming up about to have going underground.

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welcome back in the past 24 hours the so-called russia report has been released by the british intelligence and security committee and while the biggest target of the report appears to be the u.k. government and intelligence services some journalists still don't see any smoking gun that implicates u.k. prime minister bars johnson one of those is the daily mail consultant as a 100 piers he joins me now via skype from london or thanks so much for coming back on so less of there being no smoking gun as they're not looking for smoking guns probably well i mean this was this was and if you just talked to some labor m.p.'s before the election when this report was apparently suppressed 5 or johnson they thought there was obviously enough in there that could potentially bring it down it was. do you and glue it was going to show that russian intelligence conspired with him yet breaks it down as you know i voted for greg tell you i wasn't persuaded by

anybody in russia you know he moscow just said my great british and stay do whatever i tell you surely know but i won't force johnson did suppress the report and he said clearly when he presumably read it that there is no evidence of meddling for any elections whatsoever so well is this just there is a one way did he want to suppress it that there's a whole series. to be up to to go back to the report the intelligence report it suggests that there was russian attempts to interfere in the scottish referendum that's when scotland voted to remain part of united kingdom something i was very pleased about and they said i asked for the referendum committee said there wasn't enough effort. boris johnson's reason may to try and establish the pair was any ins of brits from russia so it's not a completely in good health but if sense there was a lot of frustration in the intelligence community that they couldn't find anything more substantial than that one reason one theory why they wouldn't publish the

report soon enough for 10 they hated with a vengeance the chairman and the man who dominate agree he was the attorney general last september he was one of those trains you on the orient gays were kicked out of by bars johnson because they kept rocking the boat and they didn't want to give you news day in giving that give him his 15 minutes of fame as borehole might say not least because it planned to run as an independent against the tory cancer in the december general election that's just one siri another there is he just couldn't recall that the president had julian lewis and the way they're all talking about the report afterwards of the press coverage exonerated presenters on this channel didn't mention our actual name but they in the report they seem to be saying m i 5 initially provided just 6 lines of text why this antagonism between the intelligence services and intelligence and security committee and m i 5 that is after all service we're protecting as the job of that committee is to give an

independent oversight into the activities of the intelligence services m i 5 and m i 6 you had sees when and so there's often an uncomfortable relationship between them because they don't always agree with what's going on we don't know a lot what's going on because as you would have seen that box i'm sure you read it from a part of the rest of it was a lot of it was redacted so and they are privy to lots of intelligence secrets that we will never know about so has always been and of course you know this is coming as the new gemini's not the chairman number one downs or do they want it chris grayling the former transport so we're just. sector a known university is failing great he was a minister when aside from the internal politics i thought that i was going to read about. if you believe the manichean the evil russian oligarch theory then names in this report the only political party donor i could see was aaron banks since you

mention breck said we're going on with that why the russian names why just aren't banks well it wasn't just that the report also criticizes the house of lords where they point out is a number of members of got extensive business interests in russia with russian businessmen and women but it doesn't name them and i could name one or 2 of them i'm so i think i would see my thought they were talking about and as you said any person name is aaron banks who was accused by his many enemies of being perhaps even in receipt of money from russia russian his systems he was a footnote in the report and they found absolutely no evidence whatsoever he colluded with organised by russian intelligence so he is rather quits well and there were rumors that he was trying to get it stopped again i don't know why people wanted to suppress the report i shared a stage of chris grayling and severe storm or actually and in the run up to the

report labor seemed to be fretting over the accusations that the n.h.s. dossier that was a use of the $21000.00 election they were worried about that because it appeared that that could have come from russia it's been denied it came from russia where is that all gone and all of that missing from the record well that was a quite clever piece of spin by the tories so if you recall in the election jeremy cog in a very the most hard left wing labor lead to that we've had in decades roundish these bits of paper which he said show us that you tories were involved in a dusted you've got the just if you president jumped a lot of parts of the n.h.s. which would mean we. at a more of a more expensive drug spell now that report had been on the internet where cohen got it wrong the suggestion was that the russians promoted get your attention to it and that they used and that jerry called an activist the kremlin's useful idiots

well he wasn't particularly useful if you're just a bit of an idiot. but that didn't appear in the report anyway because it was no. suggestion of the day on tween america and trump. the british government was all over the internet corbin refuses to come on this program he denied being in idiot i presume but isn't that what but it isn't isn't the problem with what you just said the only in the in the eve of the release of this report tories were voting to save the united states could effectively destroy our national health service during a pandemic the united states and up and get balance on the n.h.s. the price i mean even the man i'm not explicitly related to that i was voted out it's not going to happen telling it the tories and under this prime minister after what's happened with an demick of what happened impersonate you know jesse's is going to be awash with cash and has to these members of this committee why do you

think they would proudly put christopher steele's name as the expert witness the famous golden shower man over against trump who. in english court has just ordered him to pay damages to rich russian bankers for defaming them in libeling them yet and of course he's the author he's seen as the ultimate conspiracy as i think it was very unusual of a op that they did that in a report that was conspicuous in having very few names in it and if it were insurmountable now just ignore the rest of the report i mean there are supposedly. things in it saying yeah now there's going to be another full review on russian interference in civics i say look this is giving the government a clean bill. it's given me a clean bill of health in the referendum now he won't allow on that i said and i don't really know that there's that much material in that the leader of the opposition but much from what the best you can say is agent the heart of the russian and parents well why didn't the labor party well the report came out just

as mike pompei o touchdown. in london and then went right timing dominic i'm not sure what bombay i would say about the report but around the world people are obviously thinking why post breck's it is britain went to antagonize the greatest economic superpower of the century china it's trying to attack russia and why is worth trying to sending an aircraft carrier to china what exactly is the post directed vision of a government that wants to antagonize these huge countries i don't think we're antagonizing china i think we're just sticking up for the interests of the british past desert area in hong kong but this and again aircraft carrier to china's maritime border as well what's the point of that it's to look tough and to talk tough and the fact is you can't deny the fact china has passed a law that goes completely against the spirit of the 1980 or agreement which fact just signed with china about the hondo law the national law they passed is

repressive its totality and it's undemocratic which is why we sense up to 3000000 people non-colored suppose you could potentially come and live in britain i think it's quite reassuring to see a british foreign secretary saying up yours to china we know you are important trading partners but we are not going to be pushed around we don't particularly like the way they conducted themselves i mean could it be anybody believes the official death toll in china and there's still that's still a suspicion wretched thing started in a bar or 2 in china anyway because china was also bullying the world health organization in january to suggest that there was no link no suggestion that the infection at the trouble tween animals and humans not true china would refute all of that we invited trainers ambassador to london and your peers thank you chris talk to you. well one issue britain's my child and russia report mentions by name is wiki leaks revelations of the us democratic national committee's attempts to destroy bernie sanders 2016 presidential campaign it has been widely reported in

asian nation media that it was somehow evidence that wiki leaks founder julian assange is a russian assets currently being tortured by u.k. authorities in belmarsh prison in london according to the un is expected to be back in the u.k. courts in september he's not been forgotten by pioneering fashion designer vivienne westwood going underground fine ahmed's went down to the old bailey to ask what she thinks of accusations that a sandwich is a russian asset well everything's a spin everything i've ever heard the press ever says about judean is a love i and when if the lattes lied to about him all ready with regard to russia and so i'm assuming that this is just another you know the bit of rubbish added to the back to the last time that i spoke to you of course are very different circumstances jeremy called and lost boris johnson in the us now joe biden has called joining us on a digital terrorist so is there really any hope now for joining us on how to be

liberated from extradition to our state what the e.u. while they american say doing is they are trying to fake the victim to the crime and they're inventing crimes in order to fit them to the victim and so they're making these toll all rubbish crimes as is the example you've just given me it's not a crime to be digital estate you know i mean and it's not a crime at a federal judge payloads we kill leaks right to publish. information illegally acquired information whistle blowing is late go. it is the truth and that's what it's all a part in america's trying to stop this procedure if america is allowed to take

a person who's not american he's all strayed ian and and and say we need him because we need to put him in jail because he told the truth about america what's to stop that he may approach in saying the suppression just come to visit us in moscow arrest him because hey ok not a russian citizen case a frenchman but he told the truth about russia and so we're going to put him in jail for life but what's to stop people doing this this is insane it's absolutely insane all symbolism between the canary in the cage and genocide well it is that a necklace cost to trapped chilean when he formed wiki leaks right from the beginning and they've set him up on stage. and it has been a collusion of governments doing this possibly worldwide you know i'm

not saying china necessarily but america. even europe they've they've colluded in this because corruption is institutional and endemic throughout the whole whoa and so we've got to break this corruption. setting a truth teller free say it didn't rest with us reading the social media produce a fine homage down at the old bailey and that's it for the show we'll be back on saturday 10 years to the day with the leaks publish the afghan war diary which revealed evidence of u.s. war crimes until then wash your hands join the underground on you tube twitter sometimes it's a lot of facebook. according to even fox news truong is lagging in the polls is this because joe biden is such

a brilliant and it or because the heartbeat consensus but tend to make has been badly handled by the president still another theory trump ran as a populist in 2006 feet as he governed as one. syria has been engulfed in civil war through almost 10 years it's cost hundreds of thousands of lives and displaced millions more no one foresaw the peaceful protests of 20 of them is collating into a complex conflict between various armies geopolitical interests rebel groups and just. how they are in the book on this. but if you tell us if you say you hate because it. was your.

best to look cool and. you know deep down to look. at them on. an ordinary i sat down i. never statham as the mother and then as she did what i did i'm a step a gun a shot then you. get. the british prime minister faces think winning a pot of a type of report which could adapt the government britain's lack of action again. and that's it and so. the people of these treaties countries didn't vote to leave the e.u. because of pressure from russia.