you're in chief of politics 1st magazine and we crossed to alexander me curious teaser writer on legal affairs as well as editor in chief of the brand originally prospect was in fact that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was ok let's go to marcus in london mark as i read the russia report and i couldn't help but get the feeling that it was kind of a cross section of a buzz feed story and a madison avenue market see proposal really kind of short on facts high on accusations and evidence free that's my conclusion go ahead mark. i have troops shot allegations paid in a judicial way and in no way could the law with the courage allegations in that i accept demands in fact evidence to sir who actually accusations and if the evidence is not bad if the evidence is not forthcoming then the case should be dismissed now or as

a matter of the parliamentary press gallery i made sure that i create clear quiets a color your world has become known embrace and as the last records and i will say this piece after us glance i was extremely dubious because allegations of the name sure which were being made by this committee of tolerance against russia should legally manifest itself in at least $100.00 pages but the rules was only 20 pages and that is a very strange strange events sandra lee those who is full of traditional language of british official language such as the u.k. is committed to the rule of law the u.k. is committed to up hold in the international law based system the language of

british officials are paid to has for centuries deceived a great many people brinson and oppose now returning to the cons hands there was no evidence whatsoever forward to support the accusations against russia indeed intrudes paragraphs it clearly states if there is a no evidence to support a bass and russia interferes in the swedish housing and food chain source independence referendum and in the sand paragraph it clearly states it there is no evidence. russia's interference in the us who files the 19 general election in britain on that basis there is no case to be heard because there is no evidence corroborates in these assertions against russia what we have seen in this report is possum parcel. very well orchestrated

and i was very loose less media p.r. and political campaign against russia because russia is not russia of the 99 seas russia is a russia resurrections much of it so yes iran's superpower status is and that is what is high in this report that is what is behind the fear of britain and america well it's an immature think my very curious about it is that it's essentially is demanding people like ourselves and our viewers to prove a negative because they make a claim and they tried to build a case to satisfy that claim but they obviously don't and they turn around and say you have to prove to us that they didn't meddle this is inverting the entire inverted and logically end and actually how you approach the law in any kind of meaningful honest investigation go ahead oh well this is exactly the point because instead of saying you know we have all this evidence that there is russian meddling

you know politics and you know setting out what the evidence isn't coming to conclusions all this saying is there is no evidence of russian meddling in our politics that must mean that the intelligence services are not doing their job properly because even though there is no right. now we. do find it and then i see absolutely right in saying that very aggressively people like us . dare i say the russian government as a well you know no evidence at. that you actually did metal should prove to us that you decent it's it's not marcus was talking about how do you know judicial approach is if you're judicial approach it's the world turned on its head it says you know you know we make this search and we bring all these extraordinary genius witnesses people at william browder christmas to steal the you know who have their own well

known views about russia we don't look beyond books we don't call it academics or insults from miss universe is people who you know we know we've got them and all programs look look so that we're just me can see notion we make an assertion it's not a saturday session not an assertion of facts but his assertion all beliefs and then jamal means that the other person the other saw its premise is wrong i think heats it's it's it's alice in wonderland stuff and you know what you are mentions i want to kind of go deeper and. marcus here and be the expert external witnesses here i'm reading from the report here and william browder christopher donley lucas christopher. think it's gone to the point of being ludicrous i

mean all these people have a right to their opinion but this is the external witnesses they're experts here of one side of this debate if it's even to make this one and the accusation here i mean shouldn't the writers of this report be embarrassed by this i mean anyone who watches russia fares in air irrespective of how you feel about it with everyone going to the conclusion this is really one sided go ahead mark. well if britain has a free and independent media then it is journalists exposure to cost and prince fans want to highlight it to the british public and that these excerpts and i use the words in a very loose way in inverted commas these acts on russia are not all jacksie of individuals when it comes to some boston masses wife because for many years now

after they have demonstrated his or seriously so who lost they have demonstrated his hostility towards the russian government hostility towards russian foreign policy so they are not objects if it and they are certainly not impartial but once again what we see in britain is another example another manifestation where british politicians fear were game bolton's so many accusations of any kind whatsoever against lusha know and they do not have to put forward evidence to support those assertions. mainstream asia will not question they will certainly not ask penetrating questions they will last groups and i see why because it may just sounded in britain and also in america piece how collapse as that is why british politicians feel they can make any claim against

russia because they know british mainstream media is not going to scrutinize what they are saying their money there's no downside of being wrong here ever ok i'm going to be here i'm going to make a supposition here of course this is this is hostility towards russia and this as the do to bolster nato i to bolster defense spending in the u.k. and in united states i mean in the team then in. so city of an enemy but there's a kohler area to all of this and i think it's even more insidious because these these the agenda i just mentioned that's going to go on anyway ok we'll talk about china later in the program here but this is really a pitch for censorship and it's ok for the security forces to control free speech to decide what is excess acceptable speech and of course the other point here this is directed right at us here at r.t. you know what absolutely i mean the 1st of those experts i mean this is a tiny group of experts an impartial investigation would call for many many more

experts learn and then this and expose little diverse backgrounds and diverse views these people were chosen because they are known to have the views about russia that lead you to your quite right the only. evidence and i think only evidence i mean i use the word in evidence in inverted commas the any actual quotes all made on made about russian will cost us about our city and about scrutiny and of course will do we see we see a campaign against these broadcasters afterwards and who pursues these increasingly enough the leader of the british labor party coming back to marcus's point who is of course a lawyer he must know when he reads this your absurd it is so charitable i would call him a tool this is your north but he he has

a legal training he has a legal training he must see when he reads this report that he's fact free that it's the experts behind it are not you know from a representative pool of russian experts not remotely and yet he's campaigning now for r.t. for those actions and yet taken against oxy. i don't absolutely what is just russian book but his voice is dissident voices and we place and it's really interesting because there is such a thing as off coming in supposed to be it's not supposed to be partisan here now what we're hearing now from the labor party is that it should be. partisan the government should get involved and decide what is a good speech. safe speech security speech for. the public sphere in britain i mean this is going over the line i mean i have my issues with off coming in and now

they're going to be shelved aside in the government's going to decide what you can say when you can hear what broadcast mark is that you. well pisa for many years now common has been the british on unsolder british test status in an. unofficial sense censorship asian save so there is not a muscle from all soft consol says that in regards to the labor party it let me tell you this because certain policy is the establishment it is the past year the british establishment the labor party has a long way baby an opposition party controlled by the british establishment indeed soviet diplomats in the 1940 s. in the 1950 s. you saw reports that some also of the labor party is also genuine socialist it is our policy control ideas sound now and again the pasties led by socialists

i dos socialists have to be right freeze on who might who 1st and in recent times very cool but as far as the british sound issuances concerned now that she is sama is head in the labor party the labor party in barrow eyes is back in safe hands ok well you know i mean there's that report will have delved into the oligarchs russian oligarchs living in the u.k. and how they use their money for political influence but i suppose that will come out in a long deal right gentlemen we're going to go to a short break and after that break we'll continue when it's real nice to. bring.

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you can't be both with the yeah you want. to. welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered i'm people about to remind you we're discussing some humans.

ok let's go back to london i'm going to be here is my pompei always been very young bombastic i would say in the last few days here he's taking. a swing at north. north stream me and also he's come out very loudly about china here in let me quote you something he said here it's really quite interesting to me china ripped off our intellectual property and trade secrets cause the. millions of jobs across america really tiny did i thought i thought american corporations did that maybe i got this wrong well you know 1st of all you're right about this i mean it was american corporations who decided shouldn't send their fax a receipt china just to china by the way to mexico indonesia talk cause of places that's supposed to be you know their business decisions america is the land of free enterprise all through all that's the idea anyway but seriously i found

a species extremely troubling and very very concerning i mean it's. unbelievably aggressive in its language 8 paints a picture of china which is so dark i mean i'm not going to say that there are just the mail you're. well quite but i mean it's clean eating into not just us all to do full spectrum chandran to us it's clearly more than just jobs issues of that kind that's a demagogue a half specs of this speech intended to rally american public opinion is clearly looking for a long confrontation with china which is now being represented just basically the new soviet union so we're back into all of that all over again its cold war suit with a vengeance and i have to say i think a lot of people in europe especially would be looking at this and they would be you

know shaking their heads. and sighing and say to themselves oh no not get because this is one of his biggest trading partner is china it was remember that in italy as a general his journeys biggest trading partner is china and this is what it's all about that and of course you have the demagogues statements about china stealing our jobs. china stealing. technology the chinese can't come up with their antic knowledge that's why they're a head who is ahead on flights because the chinese ambassador. point out that in many cases when it will end western companies want to do business in china is the day they sign a waiver to a lot of their technologies i mean it's not as if it does doesn't just show espionage happened of course it happens now is it me always and my company or thinks it's only one country in the world that doesn't everybody does that are you

a part of doing business here let me go to marcus here is one of the things that we also he said is that the world must change china or china will change us well that's kind of interesting there that's kind of a form of orientalism if i had ever heard any go ahead. and i know that. that is a form of passive aggression and that is something of that of course the worship be very very alarmed by it but i suspect peter that i have a dissenting voice in all of this yes on the one hand there is clearly growing tension between washington and beijing that manifests itself partly in american military minutely this in the south china sea and also the trade war but on the other hand i submit that it is not sit in the interests for either america or china

for there to be a further and major serious deterioration in the relationship between the 2 countries because if they was if the economic relationship between the americans and the chinese was to collapse if it was to be settled and then both countries almost overnight would go into recession the chinas projects the one yes and that has a very very large ambitions and i have no doubt it will prove a great amount of money for the chinese but it will not compare to the trading and investment relationship the chinese have we are america and i would also say this there are a lot of commentators who are us who can talk about chinese military minds and how the chinese could as americans in the south china sea where yes the chinese military would certainly fight anyone in the world to defend chinese national

security but the people's liberation army laments the largest armed forces museum in the well as this chinese i have progressed when it comes to tender logical masses and they have done exceedingly well they are still dependent on luster for high-tech cannot. for a lot of. different systems and also financially of generation x. is china was the congo who are going to who retire harsh you will see the difficulties the chinese will encounter in fighting to a very advanced military that is high around the house so you cannot compare the chinese military to the american military i don't think we're there yet and i think go back to the point you made a minute ago that out of that i mean there's i mean it's the united states it's threatening trade it's not really the beijing doing it i mean. you know it you know the way it's being played out now it's either or it's the china world or it's the

west you know whom i'm watching and sense as me and it's being pushed to look that direction and at this point it's a very dangerous game of chicken but i don't think anyone wants real confrontation here or what's happening here and it's go back to my point they are he's concerned with nas or them that's where we are in this struggle right now i'm going to be careful this is exactly because i take all the points that monkey says and you're absolutely right peter if you read the chinese media or does the chinese english language media they are afforded by these events they don't looking for a fight with the united states they're not looking to sever the economic relationship with the united states all points that marcus is making about this being interim mendus gul full both the united states and china if they move to an adversarial you know hostile well the chinese themselves and making them am quite ill but the fact is you are discussing this in

a rational way and there is not much rationality in my own case each there's not much rationality in u.s. policy about china at the moment and other countries there are not these things in. a more rational way the europeans the southeast asians countries like taiwan countries like thing that means they're looking at all of this and they're being asked to take sides in exactly the way that you say and they don't think it they don't want to be told but that is the world that people like mike. and it must be set a lot of people in the united states ought to getting it didn't act out on this list all but you know i remember there isn't much push back to it's very messy and they can apocalyptic behind me which which is completely counterproductive because

a pumpkin also is a chain has taken so if bandage us in western generosity what world is he living it. well this is the same individual case i do want to say it's only the cia has overthrown foreign governments now or when have i have come here or indeed other western politicians talk about generosity well i suppose generosity has been defined in there are no terms i don't trade could be chinese would find it generous how the americans and the british or the special services or america and britain have interfered in hong kong and have all this traces and are provided assistance to the militants princesses in hong kong i don't think the chinese or indeed any other country in the well us will find it generous that the american society this leader cloying elements or lysis to these ngs i'm told and

where she is a restless muslim province in the well in the west in most parts of china so how on earth can my computer make the assertion the bat's america west in general has been generous but then he takes me back to my points which i raise. earlier on in this episode my own piers is simply one west some politician who knows there is not going to be scrutiny with his comments when it comes to oh it comes to china because american mainstream and major simply the american assertions and sadly for they are not go into question here when it comes to china because american mainstream age is not a free no independent they all use as a weapon and i would say most potent weapon the west has in its arsenal so attack countries in the road which for sure independence foreign policies you know

you know i was in a meter is meeting is a very interesting confluence of events right now we have the upcoming american presidential election donald trump is way down in the polls. if appears i think that there's a growing consensus that is greatest weakness is the reaction to the corona virus plague of course his administration is pointing all of the blame at china the the recovery is not in the cards or news for the majority of people here china just isn't it is a very convenient card to play right now i would say and it can be it is convenient because there's no pushback as marcus was saying but is extremely dangerous because the interconnection the coupling of the american economy to the asia china's economy is so very very deep and intense nothing like if ever was with russia for example go ahead well you're quite right i mean they receive the atmosphere in the

united states at the moment is extremely feeds it and obviously there is a political dynamic there isn't domestic political dynamic you make china skate all americas fadia to deal with the virus outbreak in fact is part of the. oh home to his speech actually touches all this is all showing us all you know things are happened in the way that they have happened the fact that china dealt with a virus outbreak much more mistake to me that the us to stop is another issue but we mustn't statens 2 things about this firstly the drift towards confrontation with china has been happening the songs on actually salty don't do barack obama's administration always he's hugely excited or at least in the last few months but the drift was already pointing that way on the 2nd days though there is no real

discussion all just use of facts that we see in the united states is a very very strange on the in the financial times main exactly that point i'm worrying about satirist you know going to make a last observation here and i remember the quote the 1st cold war with the soviet union and there was a real debate today there is no real debate when it comes to china that's all the time we have i want to thank my guests london i want to thank our viewers for watching as the iraqis see a mix of the. best because there's a viable. they say there's a war going to start. at all these are. there are you going to. have to. know good this is

a repatriation scheme we're get arrested 7 years. military organizer for. the sudden fullest and illegal takeover of a government by a small group. so rather than revolutionaries or soldiers could that small group the corporations when you have a tiny group of people who have all the power you have to have some means to make sure the rest of us don't get together and take it back. please or sacrifice some. places that capitalism exploited and destroyed for profit and left behind misery poverty environmental devastation and so you see things like voter suppression building more prisons you seem gerrymandering all sorts of undemocratic practices the wealthy use of that world for well for this world and

there's no question that the. same wrong. roll. call. any new world that is yet to shape out disdain to come to educate and gain from it equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart. just to look for common ground. i don't know. no shots. actually felt. very strong

no 1st. point ch your thirst for action. in the headlines this monday the 27th of july now less than $100.00 days than until americans choose their next president of the country already played by more than 2 months of round see racism unrest we assess the impact it's having. a government recommended news website british schoolchildren writes a damning article on russia and tells its teenage audience to the verge of putin is the most dangerous man in the world. and space slapped with fresh travel restrictions by several nations including britain and france after surging coronavirus case.