hello and welcome to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm really about as russia been meddling in u.k. politics according to an initial report the answer is maybe kind of and the usual highly likely report is that also secretary of state mike pompei o is on

a crusade against china does anyone outside the beltway really care. to. cross knocking this and more i'm joined by my guest in london marcus papadopoulos he's editor in chief of politics 1st magazine and we crossed to alexander make your wrists he's a writer on legal affairs as well as editor in chief of the duran regiment also cause and effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was ok let's go to marcus in london mark as i read the russia report and i couldn't help but get the feeling that it was kind of a cross section of a buzz feed story and a madison avenue market proposal really kind of short on facts high on accusations and evidence free that's my conclusion go ahead mark.

i have troops shot allegations paid in a judicial way and in a way. over law with the courage allegations in that i expect demands in fact evidence to serve who actually accusations and if the evidence is not bad if the evidence is not forthcoming then the case should be dismissed now or as a matter of the parliamentary press gallery i made sure that i quickly are quiet our culture your words has become not only immigrants and as the last records and i will say this piece after us glance i was extremely dubious because allegations of the name sure which are being made by this committee of tolerance against russia should legally manifest itself in at least $100.00 pages but the rules was only 20 pages and that is

a very strange strange events sandra lee those who is full of traditional language of british official language such as the u.k. is committed to the rule of law the u.k. is committed to up hold the international law based system of the language or british officials are paid to has for centuries deceived a great many people who are feeling brinson and oppose now turning to the cons hands there was no evidence whatsoever forward to support the accusations against russia indeed intrudes paragraphs it clearly stated there is a no evidence to support a bass and russia interferes in the swedish $1014.00 source independence referendum and in the sand paragraph it clearly states is that there is no evidence. russia's

interference in the us who files the 19 general election in prison on that basis there is no case to be heard because there is no evidence corroborates in these assertions against russia what we have seen in this report is possum parcel. very well orchestrated and i was very loose less media p.r. and political campaign against russia because russia is not russia will the $99.00 seas and russia is a russia resurrections much of it so yes iran's superpower status is and that is what is high in this report that is what is behind the fear of britain and america well it's an immature think my very curious about it is that it's essentially is demanding people like ourselves and our viewers to prove a negative because they make a claim and they trying to build

a case to satisfy that claim but they obviously don't and they turn around and say you have to prove to us that they didn't meddle this is in reverting the entire inverted and logically end and actually how you approach the law in any kind of meaningful honest investigation go ahead oh well this is exactly the point because instead of saying you know we have all this evidence that there is russian meddling you know politics and you know setting out what the evidence isn't coming to conclusions all this saying is there is no evidence of russian meddling in all politics that must mean that the intelligence services are not doing their job properly because even though there is no right. now we. do find it and then i see absolutely right in saying that very aggressively people like us . dare i say the russian dolphins as a well you know no evidence at. that you actually did metal should prove to us that

you decent it's it's not marcus was talking about how do you know judicial approach is if you're judicial approach it's the world turned on its head it says you know you know we make certain we bring all these extraordinary deniece witnesses people at william browder at christmas to steal people you know who have their own well known views about russia we don't look beyond that we don't call it academics or insults from miss universe is people who you know we know we've got them and all programs look look so that we're just me conceit notion we make an assertion it's not a saturday session not an assertion of facts but and assertion all beliefs and then jamal means that the other person the other saw its premise is wrong i think heats

it's it's it's alice in wonderland stuff and you know what you are mentions i want to kind of go deeper and. marcus here and be the expert external witnesses here i'm reading from the report here and william browder christopher donley ed lucas christopher. think it's gone to the point of being ludicrous i mean all these people have a right to their opinion but this is the external witnesses they're experts here of one side of this debate if it's even to make this one empty accusation here i mean shouldn't the writers of this report be embarrassed by this i mean anyone who watches russian fairs in every respect of how you feel about it with everyone going to the conclusion this is really one sided go ahead mark. well if britain has a free and independent media then it is journalists both for the cost and

prince fans want to highlight it to the british public and that these excerpts and i use the words in a very loose way in inverted commas these acts on russia are not all jacksie of individuals when it comes to some boston masses wife because for many years now after they have demonstrated his or seriously so who lost they have demonstrated his hostility towards the russian government hostility towards russian foreign policy so they are not objects if it and they are certainly not impartial but once again what we see in britain is another example another manifestation where british politicians appear were game bolton's so many accusations of any kind whatsoever against lusha know it and they do not

have to put forward evidence to support those assertions. mainstream asia will not question they will certainly not ask penetrating questions they will last scrutinise why because it may just sounded in britain and also in america piece how collapse as that is why british politicians feel they can make any claim against russia because they know british mainstream media is not going to scrutinize what they are saying their money there's no downside of being wrong here ever ok i'm going to be here i'm going to make a supposition here of course this is this is hostility towards russia and this as the do to bolster nato i do bolster defense spending in the u.k. and in united states i mean in the team then in. so city of an enemy but there's a kohler area to all of this and i think it's even more insidious because these the

the agenda i just mentioned that's going to go on anyway ok we'll talk about china later in the program here but this is really a pitch for censorship and it's ok for the security forces to control free speech to decide what is except except the will speech and of course the other point here this is directed right at us here at r.t. you know what absolutely i mean the 1st of those experts i mean this is a tiny group of experts an impartial investigation would call for many many more acts sloan and and then this and expose little diverse backgrounds and diverse views these people who are chosen because they are known to have the views about russia that they do but your quite right the only. evidence and i didn't call it and so i used the word in evidence in inverted commas the any actual quotes all made on made about russian will cost us about our city and about scrutiny and of course hope we see we see

a campaign against these broadcasters afterwards and who pursues these increasingly enough the leader of the british labor party coming back to marcus's point who is of course a lawyer he must know when he reads this your absurd it is so charitable i would call him a tool is a very minor but he he has a legal training he has a legal training he must see when he reads this report that his factory that it's the experts behind it are not you know from a representative pool of russian experts not remotely and yet he's campaigning now for r.t. for its actions and yet taken against oxy. thank you absolutely what is just russian book but his voice is dissident voices and we place and it's really

interesting because there is such a thing as off coming in supposed to be it's not supposed to be partisan here now what we're hearing now from the labor party is that it should be. partisan the government should get involved and decide what is a good speech. safe speech security speech for for the public sphere in britain i mean this is going over the line i mean i have my issues with off coming in and now they're going to be shelved aside in the government's going to decide what you can say what you can hear what broadcast mark is that i mean that you. well pisa for many years now our own has been the british on unsolder british as stylish and unofficial says censorship asian save so there is not muscle from all soft console it says that in regards to the labor party it let me tell you this because certain policy is the establishment it is the past year the british establishment

the labor party has a long way baby an opposition party controlled by the british establishment indeed soviet diplomats in the 1940 s. in the 1950 s. you saw reports that some moscow the labor party is also genuine socialist it is our policy control idea sounds now only again the pasties led by socialists and ost socialists have to be the right phrase on who might who 1st and in recent times very cool but as far as the british assassination is concerned now that she is sama is head in the labor party the labor party in barrow eyes is back in safe hands ok well you know i mean there's that report will have delved into the oligarchs russian oligarchs living in the u.k. and how they use their money for political influence but i suppose that will come out in a long deal right gentlemen we're going to go to a short break and after that break we'll continue when it's real nice to.

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welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered i'm people about to remind you we're discussing some religions. ok let's go back to one in oh i'm going to be here as my comp aoe has been very on bombastic i would say in the last few days here he's taken a take it was a swing at north north stream me and also he's come out very loudly about china here in let me quote you something he said here it's really quite interesting to me china ripped off our prized intellectual property and trade secrets costing millions of jobs across america really tiny did i thought i thought american

corporations did that maybe i got this wrong or had our well you're 1st of all you're right about this i mean it was american corporations who decided student send their fax to restate china not just to china by the way to make. indonesia talk ons of places that's supposed to be you know their business decisions america is the latter free enterprise all through all that's the idea anyway but seriously i found pay as speech extraordinary troubling and very very concerning i mean it's . unbelievably aggressive in its language. paints a picture of china which is so dark i mean i'll not going to say i didn't read just mail your. earlier though oh i don't well quite without its 8th clear and eating into not just us all to do polls between china and the u.s. it's clearly more than just jobs a lease of that kind that's a demagogue

a hat specs of this speech intended to rally american public opinion is clearly looking for a long term confrontation with china which is now being represents you just basically do you. so you get so we're back into more of that all over again it's cold war suit with a vengeance and i have to say i think a lot of people in europe especially will be looking at this and they will be you know shaking their heads. and sighing and say to themselves oh no nazi get because this is one of his biggest trading partner is china it was remember that in italy as gemini's journeys biggest trading partner is china and this is what it's all about and of course you have the demagogue statements about china stealing our jobs. china stealing all technology the chinese can come up with their own dick knowledge that's what america. who is ahead on flights because the chinese

ambassador. or i know that in many cases when it will in western companies want to do business in china is the day they sign a waiver to a lot of their technologies i mean it's not as if it does it doesn't know still espionage happened of course it happens now is it me always in my company or thinks it's only one country in the world it doesn't everybody does it are you a part of doing business here let me go to marcus here is one of the things that we also he said is that the world must change china or china will change us well that's kind of interesting there that's kind of a form of orientalism if i had ever heard any go ahead. and i know that. that is a form of passive aggression and that is something of that sort of groups the worship be very very alarmed by it but i suspect peter that i have

a dissenting voice in all of this yes on the one hand there is clearly growing tension between washington and beijing that manifest itself hardly in american military mini this in the south china sea and also the trade war but on the other hand i submit that it is not sit in the interests for either america or china for there to be a further and major serious deterioration in the relationship between the 2 countries because if they was if the economic relationship between the americans and the chinese was to collapse if it was to be settled and then both countries almost overnight would go into recession the chinas projects the one yes and that has a very very large ambitions and i have no doubt it will prove a great amount of money for the chinese but it will not compare to the trading and

investment relationship the chinese have with america and i would also say this there are a lot of commentators who are us who can talk about chinese military minds and how the chinese could as americans in the south china sea where yes the chinese military would certainly fight anyone in the world to defend chinese national security but the people's liberation army laments the largest armed forces museum in the well as this chinese i have progressed when it comes to tender logical masses and they have done exceedingly well they are still dependent on luster for high-tech cannot. for a lot of. different systems and also from ash if generation x. is china has the congo who are going to who retire harsh you will see the

difficulties the chinese will encounter in fighting to a very advanced military that is high around the house so you cannot compare the chinese military to the american military i don't think we're there yet and i think go back to the point you made a minute ago that i'm going to make yours i mean it's the united states that's threatening trade it's not really the beijing doing it i mean. you know it you know the way it's being played out now it's either or it's the china world or it's the west you know whom i'm watching and sense as me and it's being pushed to look that direction at this point it's a very dangerous game of chicken but i don't think anyone wants a real confrontation here but what's happening here and it's go back to my point they are he's concerned with now us or them that's where we are in this struggle right now i'm going to be careful this is exactly because i take all the points that monkey says and you're absolutely right peter if you read the chinese meat yet

or does the chinese english language media they are afforded by these events they don't looking for a fight with the united states they're not looking to sever the economic relationship with the united states all the points that marcus is making about this being interim mendus own goal full both the united states and china and they move to an adversarial you know hostile well the chinese themselves and making them am quite but the fact is you are discussing this in a rational way and there is not much rationality in my own case reach there's not much rationality in u.s. policy about china at the moment and other countries that look to these things in. a more rational way the europeans the southeast asians countries like taiwan countries like thing that means they're looking at all of this and they're being asked to take sides in exactly the way that you say and they don't

like it they don't want to be told but that is the world that people like might have and it must be set a lot of people in the united states are drug learning incidents and act out and this least all but you know i remember there is much push back to it's very messy amik an apocalyptic byzantine reign which was just completely counterproductive because a puppet you also say a team has taken so if a bandage of us in western generosity what world is he living it. well this is the same individual case i do want to say openly the cia has or for our own foreign governments now when had i have come here or indeed other western politicians talk about generosity well i suppose generosity has been defined in there are no terms i don't trade could be chinese would find it generous how the

americans and the british or the special services or america and britain have interfered in hong kong and have all this traces and are provided assistance to the militants princesses in hong kong i don't think the chinese or indeed any other country in the well us will find it generous that the american society this leader cloying elements or lysis to these ngs i'm told and where she is a restless muslim province in the well in the west in most parts of china so you know how on earth can my own peer make the assertion that bats america the west in general has been generous but then he takes me back to my points which i raise. earlier on in this episode my own piers is simply one west some politician who knows there is not going to be scrutiny with his comments when it comes to oh it

comes to china because american mainstream and major simply the american assassinations and sat for they are not go into question here when it comes to china because american mainstream age is not a free no independent they all use as a weapon and i would say most potent weapon the west has and it's also so it's hack countries in the road which for sure independence foreign policies you know you know i was in a meter is meeting is a very interesting confluence of events right now we have the upcoming american presidential election donald trump is way down in the polls. if appears i think that there's a growing consensus that his greatest weakness was the reaction to the corona virus plague of course his administration is pointing all of the blame at china the the recovery is not in the cards are nice but the majority of people here china just

isn't it is a very convenient card to play right now i would say and it can be it is convenient because there's no pushback as marcus was saying but is extremely dangerous because the interconnection the coupling of the american economy to the asia china's economy is so very very deep and intense nothing like if ever was with russia for example go ahead well you're quite right i mean they receive the atmosphere in the united states at the moment he's extremely feeds it and obviously there is a political dynamic there's an domestic political dynamic you make china skate all americas fadia to deal with the virus outbreak in fact is part of the. home to his speech actually touches on this is all showing us all you know things are happened in the way that they have happened the fact that china dealt with a virus outbreak much more mistake to me that the u.s.

is stuck is another issue but we mustn't statens 2 things about this firstly the drift towards confrontation with china has been happening as the songs on actually salty don't do barack obama's administration always he's hugely center at least in the last few months but the drift was already pointing that way on the 2nd days though there is no real discussion all just use of backseat we see in the united states is a very very strange uncle in the financial times main exactly that point i'm worrying about saturday you know when to make a last observation here i remember the cold the 1st cold war of the soviet union and there was a real debate today there is no real debate when it comes to china that's all the time we have i want to thank my guests london i want to thank our viewers for watching as the iraqis see a mix of the. the

sudden and illegal takeover of a government by a small group. rather than revolution result. that small group alteration when you have a tiny group of people who have all the power you have to have some means to make sure the rest of us don't get together and take it back led police are sacrificing . places that capitalism exploited and destroyed for profit and left behind misery. environmental devastation and so you see things like voter suppression building more prisons you see gerrymandering all sorts of undemocratic practices. use of the world we're well into this

world there's no question that the. hello there i'm a know it's man you're watching question broadcasting from the americas national news headquarters in washington d.c. here today's top stories 1st china seizes the u.s. consulate consulate in chengdu and retaliation for the closure of its consulate in texas but as tensions continue to rise between the world's largest economies what does the future hold for u.s. china trade deals plus as $1000.00 cases a surge in some parts of this country president trump is said to visit a biotech company in north carolina working on a possible back clean this while his national security adviser has tested positive for the virus and over in spain their national corps.