hello and welcome across the uk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle u.s. secretary of state my comp a.o. is on a mission he claims the world must change china or china will change us how should we interpret this a cold war to be waged against beijing there's also imply or regime change china is certainly a major global competitor but is it now our enemy. to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest beguile in beijing he is chair professor and so chalo university and in stand where we cross to daniel wagner he is c.e.o.

of country risk as well as author of china vision the america china dubai and his new book on the belt and wrote initiative in chinese or texas right gentlemen crossed out rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok let's go to beijing richard the words that you know the world must change turning over china will change just how do you interpret that because so many commentators and warm policy in the one hall if you will allow his speech at the nixon library a big bewildering because it's taking today's circumstances in the post cold war in kind of reverting back to when using the same kind of language and i want to talk about the ideological. i mean china will is changing as. well 1st of all i see in my poem pale speech at the richard nixon presidential library was an insult to those nixon political legacy and it's an insult to china u.s.

relations for more than 4 to one yes now talking about change i would say no other country has changed for more then china has over the past 40 years and if the changes are good for chinese people's interest of course i will work up whatever changes we can bring along if the changes are to stop china's economic rise i think all the chances people will unite behind the chinese government to oppose and fight against those changes i think what panto is talking about is that china should no longer develop and shallow should give up the rights of peaceful rise and this is what the townspeople can never accept china neat changes the more the better if the changes will change china for the better and will improve the living standards of the chinese people and these changes are what china are pursuing but these changes are exactly the opposite of what people at home pale and wishing for so we are at

a very important crossroad ng in world history and china's economic development is a major trend no one can stop china's economic development. ok daniel how do you how did you react to my poem pay as speech at the nixon library because a lot of people in a surprising number and said it is the this isn't a drawing a line in the sand is that is that what we need right now and it is that is his message. i think 1st of all the reason that he chose that venue is because back in the 1970 s. when kissinger and nixon opened up the door to us china relations i think there was an acknowledgment at the time or at least a hope that what might happen is that there would not only be a peaceful rise which of course everyone wants and everyone agrees with generally but they also were presuming that if there was enough exposure to the west if there

was a good relationship between the u.s. and china and the west more generally that you know china would gradually liberalized politically and it would change into something other than what it was of course that didn't happen and i think the reason that it shows that venue is because if he had known that maybe that wasn't going to happen that maybe he would have thought twice about exactly how he did what he did but that all said i think the u.s. government the u.s. people they certainly acknowledge that china is a very important and significant country it's not going anywhere i don't think the american the american government know what no matter what it's come a composition would dream of suggesting that china is not going to continue its rawest i think it's clearly an unstoppable trend no one even if there was a desire no one would be capable of doing it so i think it's it's really an

acknowledgment of where we are in sinar u.s. relations at the present time you know really make sure you know that we ate i thought my home paon misinterpreted richard nixon's opening because he is if you look at the historical record we have to remember this was in the middle. cold war week and it was a nickname finally acknowledgment and in the washington elites that it was a rift between the soviet union and china and the nixon's damned it was to get to triangulate to get in there and do work all have characters work players working simultaneously and it actually works to the benefit of all 3 but i mean my campaign was interpreted as the china that nixon's intent was to change the internal order china and i think that's a misrepresentation of the historical record this is about foreign policy go ahead . absolutely i actually had the great honor and privilege of working for richard nixon when he visited china in 1985 as

a private citizen and we travel together to several cities in china in addition to beijing nixon impressed me a great deal with his vision with his historical perspective and also with his kerry or china u.s. relations so i see what my own pail did in the nixon presidential library is a sekret it is a really an insight of the nixon historical legacy now i think what the united states needs to do is to figure out a way to get along with china whether us is bigger than china or whether china is bigger than us it doesn't matter that much the key is for china the united states the 2 largest economies in the world they need to get in there are with each other and you knew to figure out a way to deal with each other's differences for example with respect rather than go into each other's juggler rather than trying to wrestle the other side down to the ground because that's not possible the more pressure people i promptly help along

china the more resilient china becomes and the more the chinese people are rally behind the chinese communist party in our culture are the channels communist party is the largest the political party in the world with more than 93000000 members so i don't think pompei really knows what he's talking about the chinese people are really very much united will accomplish plenty of china why because they eat improve the living standards of the chinese people they fight off the coronavirus they save people in the middle of the current matters even those people in that mine tips for example this is why the come his idea of china in china earns on ball of credentials and also respect and support from the chinese people song i. whatever it wishes my popeil may have is mission is alicia's all futility.

daniel one of the things they find very curious and it kind of you don't tales in with the rise of this pandemic is that for some reason the united states with this current political order in the political order in china run by the communist party as we've just heard here all the sudden they can't co-exist it's really quite remarkable maybe they co-existed 1st 70 years but alas for months all i hear is communist china the communist party of china is thrown into the media here i mean is it something new it's not new how do you explain that well apart that's new as everybody understands at least here in america is that the trump administration really is no longer taking china at its word that it's going to do certain things we know for example that in the obama administration there was an effort to stop cyber intrusions and sarah back into any team she and obama had agreed to and then you know a month or 2 later they were back at it so i think there's an acknowledgement that

the gloves are off that something fundamental has to change in the relationship and that china is no longer going to quote have its way with america whether it is these of the trade or in terms of cyber traditions or the theft of intellectual property the difference is now that the trumpet administration has basically said this will not stand in here longer we don't care if it has an impact on the bilateral relationship something fundamental has to change now i don't agree with strong about very much at all but i do agree that it's important to tackle you know very fundamental aspects of international relations and this is one of the i mean clearly the nature of that relationship could not continue going on the way that it was and is trying to credit not accustomed to credit him for much i think that it ultimately will prove to. useful that the gloves are off and that there will be something fundamental that will change in this relationship that hastert pm daniel

having said that the gloves are off the gloves are off to both sides because yes i mean you know bigger and you know i am not in the intelligence community and i cannot speak with authority here but. i think it is a default that countries buy on each other in the with the more more powerful and richer and more resources you have the more you're going to apply it in the way the american media is always spinning it is it only china is doing this only in china and there's no it's not never mentioned that this is part of ok i'm not going to vouch for the chinese government any more than i'm going to bow to the u.s. government considering the weapons of mass destruction in iraq that means they are ever destroying their reputation with lots of people like me so the bigger the gloves are off for both sides that's fair. well tell him our cyber espionage has just read the bulk of the information coming out of edward snowden and i think we will have a very comprehensive and complete picture of what the u.s. government has been doing in terms of espionage all cyber espionage not to accuse

china of duty that's while whitewashing what the u.s. government has been doing is really in in fantasy and i don't think people in germany for example or in other parts of europe will believe what washington is talking about and i would say the u.s. way of manhandling great leading tech company like chua way really reveals to the fullest extent that the u.s. cannot tolerate a company which is better than its own which is more out sending lead its own wishes or lead up in the 5 g. and it's not only trying to kill far away from his rallying all its allies tried to kill our way well it forgets that i killing for our way the americas are not going to benefit because this will drag down the you as roll out of the 5 g. network as well as the applications to be built on top of the 5 g.

network it will be a net loss to the united states and eventually it may force china to really become completely self reliance in terms of said we cannot so it's may actually. reading the death toll for the u. s. semiconductor industry so i don't think people at home pale or abandoned for example on the morrow they know what they are talking about they want to do one thing they don't care about the consequences for the consequences will catch up with them this is how china u.s. relations are played out right now and anything washington will do with its covers are without his gloves are now with the. it will be consequences and if i don't just exist i knew i had wrestled on channel to the radio news on t.v. before we go to the break go ahead and you know if i could just jump in on this actually 2017 i wrote a book on cyber espionage virtual terror so i do know

a thing or 2 about this peter you're absolutely right all states and gauge in this type of behavior i think the objection here is the scale and the scope and the absence of consequences as a result of the actions that are often taken on the chinese side obviously the u.s. is very active in this space as well if you want to jump in here we have to go to a hard break and after that heart rate will continue our discussion on u.s. chinese relations they are.

we go to work so you straight home. in the end by north korea it's funny people because they copy him he's so bored that even such a bad puppy sending. i'm not hilton anybody until god didn't want him to find the next guy. who looked up live on. the end of the that she won done plenty of them. that deflect some. of the deflection of what is happening say. that is it got to that that i got out from idiots

a. lot about that and the. fact that he can bank on you get nothing back up. on the bottom line principle cannot. handle a new person and they have to name what did gandhi the new normal gandhi. on the face class they are going to ignore you then go to mock you then david join you. welcome back to cross top where all things are considered i'm here a little to remind you we're discussing whether china is now be enemy.

ok let's go back to daniel talking about cyber space before we went to the break. so i just wanted to pick up on one point and victor had made regarding the injunction the us government has to walk away this because of the linkages between wall wage and chinese government if we're always was strictly a commercial entity i don't think there would be much to object about and i also believe that having taken the actions that it's taken on wall way it's going to encourage american companies to actually do more in the space and by m. 16 and i do think that ultimately that will be the net result ok with it it's very interesting that because i think victor is already kind of alluded to it is that the way we're going. we're going to have to internet we're going to have you know one country is going to choose to be on one platform and the other is a truce on another and it doesn't look very good for the u.s. because in in europe i mean for example the germans are really pushing really hard they want to make their own decision on this. way and we have the u.k.

already come i want to switch gears a little bit here i want to go back to something the pump they all said i'm going to write this to you victor china ripped off our priced intellectual property and trade secrets costing millions of jobs across america i find i'm really getting tired of this argument here it was among the captains of american industry that decided where they were going to make do their manufacturing and they get a lot of it went to china went to mexico went to other countries it would be a lot of different countries here but to blame china for stealing jobs i find that really galling and it's not in words with. with verifiable facts i would also say missed a lot american productivity actually increased amazingly and it was allowed to cut jobs i mean we have a productivity issue and then moving assets into foreign markets here i don't see how that is china's all china. and shareholders of american companies immensely

benefited from it go ahead nick. absolutely as of now china is already the largest patent producer in the world larger than the united states and china has a greater vested interest in protecting our rights or china itself or its companies as well as for companies throughout the world and the chinese economic transformation over the past 40 yes is really achieved by the great contribution and hard work and hard labor of the chinese people internally meet we really. take arrestor for weekends we really take holidays off for example we keep working and this is there really is a fundamental reason for the high economic productivity interest and i think if you compare the disciplining or the work. ethics of the chinese people versus many

other countries you will see why china's economic development has been so rapid over the last 40 years and i hope really it will continue to accuse china of archaeology rights set is really the wrong tree as a matter of fact there are more litigations between and among american companies i guess american companies or american companies or as korean company has french companies et cetera in terms of intellectual rights in sri shouldn't internet your rights problems i'm not unique to china and the chinese government has never had any state policy to encourage sassed of our p.r. rights for example saw i think this is purely fabrication for the us government try to focus on china's problem as if for example china abate the great economic transformation over the past 40 years because of the threat of our

young nothing could be further from the truth as this. you know danny one of the things i mean you know you and i but i didn't you know it iraq americans here in and you know and i think it's fair to say we remember the cold war pretty well ok we betray our age. but it began that conflict was ideological and largely military of course there were the periphery. flare ups there were confrontation but the 2 countries never and that was a rule we never go after each other here but china is a very different country than the soviet union because the soviet union was never an economic powerhouse it's retinue west i mean militarily it had some pretty good stuff but economically had our target didn't have much trade i mean china is a very different. animal i can say than the soviet union was the united states is simply isn't used a having appear and i think that's one of the things that's kind of been naing at

the the inner core of the elites because you know this is a different country it's very powerful it's very rich and it is on a trajectory communism ended because it was in the soviet union big for a variety of reasons ok and you know just pointing at you know the communist party of china that to me doesn't say anything ok it said something to me about the soviet union so the question is what's different here is the u.s. is not is not accustomed to having a real great power rival go ahead. i think there's some truth in that let me address that in a 2nd is want to go back to something that victor said you said earlier i frankly don't understand why american companies are still operating in china and i do agree they have largely themselves to blame for making china the manufacturing epicenter of the world and along with other lots of other western companies they didn't have to do that but they chose to do it and then they stay there and even though there are draconian operating environments operating in china they still choose to stay

there which they wouldn't do probably for any other country so i do. wonder why that is still texts now it is your to your other question i do agree with you and us accustomed to having a global peer if you will and i think you know frankly a lot of people here might be a little bit concerned that china has risen so quickly continue to rise so quickly that you know it's not far behind us and a lot of reynosa that said i think they would like to believe the americans would like to believe that there's going to be some sort of a level playing field in terms of how we embrace and how we operate by the same set of global. and i don't know that china is necessarily so accustomed to operating on that basis china is much more accustomed custom to creating its own environment creating its own alternative reality in terms of the way it sees the world and operating as it would like to operate at home abroad that's going to be very

difficult for him to to continue to do there's already a backlash from from the belgium road initiatives for having done so and a lot of people are saying i'm not sure i want this to continue for a final point on that in 28 team q had the pew center had a very excellent survey where they surveyed 26000 people from $25.00 countries and basically 63 percent say they would like the u.s. to continue to lead only 19 percent envisioned a world in which anna was the leader victor i mean when we heard the words norms in rules and when as in terms of the international order and i have to push back against daniel a little bit here i mean illegal invasion of iraq the illegal presence of american troops in syria the illegal overthrow the government of libya the illegal overthrowing the democratically elected government in ukraine how in the world can people in the west palm about norms and rules. noisy washing that probably is

accustomed to violating all kinds of laws or rules if it suits their purposes and it use countries like china of wiley to international law means if america feels now coming back to daniel's point why multinational companies want to come to china refused to believe for example because china now is the biggest it has in the market in the world larger than that of the united states so if you are a company if you run the company you cannot commit corporate suicide by disregarding the law just a consumer market in the world you need to producing china to get close to the markets to know the preferences of agendas consumers and you also need to leverage off on the highest quality infrastructure and connectivity in china so that your production can be at lower cost and faster rate of solar out so that you

can sell to opossum of the world including selling back to the united states this is the extraction of china i don't think in the immediate future any other country can replace china as the biggest attraction for corporates if they pursue corporate profitability as their own line i think a lot of people are if i could just say pleased i think a lot of kids of american companies are asking themselves if they can actually afford to stay in china and over the last 2 decades i've spoken with many companies who have told me about the difficulty they've had operating there they originally went there of course for exactly the reason you say that they wanted to be able to tap into that 1.2 at the time maybe 1400000 people now christian is you know is a cost you're worth the potential benefit a lot of companies are having 2nd thoughts about well and then well you know i think that you know i want to make i want to make sure my viewers don't miss.

understand here. i like the idea of bringing supply chains back to the united states this pandemic shows the necessity of doing that but i don't understand it i don't see that it is a lose lose i think it's a win win with it all countries safeguard supply chains when it comes to certain elements of their economy i think that's what that's called that's self defense and protecting your sovereignty my gripe is that you know constantly criticizing china for stealing our jobs when the when the us itself allowed itself to be open to thrown in billets and i think you know i would like to see an inkling and a congressional investigation into that why do you sell your country out ok because that's the other side of the coin here in western media doesn't like to touch here because well the media is controlled by very powerful people that are involved in this kind of activity here so i mean we have to be much more transparent in what's going on here not just blaming china major or how is the relationship how should it

move forward or and how do you think it will move forward and then i will ask any question go ahead now i think it's on the u.s. relations goal for the doll between now and the web at the service and between the certs. gender is trying to it's 25 i love freight that america will be down from resist the marco of the damned if he waits so there will be great chaos in the united states i mean here we were presented as you elect there you know the same question go ahead right i don't know that the foundation that has been laid over the last 3 plus years is likely to change regardless of who's in the white house come january 20th i think the stakes are going to continue to be higher and i do agree with victor that we can expect things to get a little a little worse in the next several months that all said i do think there will ultimately become an equilibrium. between these 2 powers with the recognition that

they have to find a way to get along the stakes are simply and i wouldn't be surprised actually if the chinese government actually prefers a 2nd trump presidency because that will continue in just a ray of the fragmentation on the part of the west a biden presidency would probably result in some sort of healing regard us and its many allies those are very thoughtful dons from both of you that's all the time we have i want to thank our viewers for watching us here r.t. and i want to thank our guest in beijing and in stamford and see you next time and remember. seemed wrong. to me to get to see

a pal of this day. and engagement to trail. once i find themselves worlds apart. just in the common ground. is your media a reflection of reality. in a world transformed. what will make you feel safe from. tyson nation or community. are you going the right way or are you being lead somewhere. direct. what is true what is faith. in the world corrupted you need to descend. to join us

in the depths. or a maid in the shallows. welcome to our viewers from around the world live from central london this is our 2 u.k. . with those numbers creeping up our assessment is that we should not squeeze the brake pedal squeeze the brake pedal in order to keep the progress under control. the u.k. prime minister postponed as the further lifting of lookdown restrictions the system urges the infection rate is rising. meanwhile the u.k. government changes restrictions overnight for much of northern england with separate households found for meeting in private homes and gardens critics say the festival of eat has been unfairly targeted i'll be talking to the c.e.o.

of the christian charities forum. the world health organization one of the coronavirus pandemic could be one big wave rather than seasonal returns of the virus the care from the w.h.o. spokesperson. people thought you know lockdowns over that it was so. outgo way they had this idea that it might come back later in the year but they had this seem to be this fixed idea that now with so much time to conti and unfortunately that's not the case. u.k. firms get the power to watch those working from home to return to the office even the most vulnerable shielding we'll hear from a workplace strategist. and the english council launches its own contacts tracing system amid frustrations with the national screen as northern ireland launches its own apps the 1st of the whole nations to do so. log on to the road to approach right from the word go where also the rest of the u.k. decided to do a slight g.

to evolve beyond of what's a good approach that was far more going to be on. the u.k. government has rolled back on a planned easing of lockdown restrictions amid a steady run is the new corona virus infections as large portions of northern england woke up to stricter measures which came into force overnight without much warning well for more on this i'm not sure but. it was just a shot here it was supposed to ease the restrictions for this saturday wasn't it but that's not the case now is it no it certainly is not the case as you mentioned we were hoping to enter the next phase of the lockdown easing the lockdown measures as of tomorrow about boris johnson felt he simply had no other choice but to push it back until it by 2 weeks so that means indoor activities like bowling alleys casinos wedding receptions will not be able to reopen as always the government has

maintained that all policy and decision making processes have been based on the medical and science experts and the data on infections at this point in time is rising and that's the reason behind bars johnson's decision. with those numbers creeping up our assessment is that we should now squeeze that brake pedal squeeze that brake pedal in order to keep the virus under control on saturday the 1st of august you remember we had hoped to reopen in england a number of the higher risk citizens that had remained closed and today i'm afraid we're perspiring those changes for at least a fortnight the idea that we can open up everything and keep the virus under control is clearly wrong and what we're seeing as is that we are at the outer edge of what we can do and therefore choices will need to be made well face coverings will also be made land tree and other indoor spaces like cinemas art galleries

museums and places of worship all of which will now be enforceable by law on top of all of this then i have a night boris johnson has made changes to localize lockdowns putting to some degree and to the north an average american to advise and cases about how hot the house like to comment on or of the saying that a kid a contributing factor to this decision is because of mix households and not socially the distancing we draw them in to target specifically the problems that we've been able to see through the data because we want to keep the control of the spread of this virus we want to do that with a minimal impact on people's lives i predict these decisions do have significant impact on people's lives but we want to do it with a minimum impact and the evidence shows that the biggest risk in terms of the spread of this virus cross this area is household transmission when people are going to see each other in their own in each other's homes when they're

not in a household together. well the measures announced late last night affect 4000000 people living in the greater manchester east lancashire and parts of west yorkshire area people in these areas are now not able to meet up with each other in other households in their homes or gardens the measures also apply to restaurants and outside tables but individual households can go to places like pubs cafes and restaurants but of course it sparked a huge criticism yet again on the government's haphazard approach to social distancing the chaotic way in which these lockdowns these localized lock downs have been done in a strategic whack a mole sort of way the policing how indeed will please sic be able to police this and of course the timing has also been criticised of course the government putting these plans in place late last night not really giving enough time for the local authorities to prepare but more crucially than in a wider capacity we must take into consideration that today is the muslim

celebration of aden many people in the northern england area do come from b.m.a. backgrounds they do come from the muslim community typically relatives or would be going to of the households within their family to celebrate a many muslims are quite shocked that on the eve of aid an announcement like this has been made by the government meaning that their celebrations will now have to be cancelled very problematic for some who have already travelled to their families homes and now they're simply going to have to go back just to give you a comparison then this is very similar to potentially the government making an announcement like this on christmas eve imagine how the rest of the current country would feel at that stage then just to clarify though the most and community agreeing with the policy of course safety is paramount but they do question how the government has communicated this with the community but in a small slight defense for boris johnson then he has always maintained he would not hesitate to put on the brakes if indeed the data dictated to him and his government

to do so if the data said act he said the government would. that i thank you very much. but i discuss the impact on a donor joined by the c.e.o. of the muslim charities for that's 40 but i thank you for joining us sometimes they these local lockdowns concern you i mean they do seem to be aimed at those celebrating. i don't i think the timing is bit surprising and shocking ifs let's put it this way. i don't think they're targeting the community although we're actually being quite. co-operative supportive and with taking a lot of measures in the muslim community to make sure that we support the government making sure this virus is controlled because it's not only way that we all need to work together both you know civil society community is government local government and so on that the challenge here is actually that and i wasn't of the evening of it is is bitterly inconvenient for all of us and i think it's just proving what just your caller just said that it is

a challenge of communication on the side of the government basically day of really coming every time some kind of surprises for all of us which is quite shocking for the governor there to argue that they had to act because if they haven't then it would have been seen as being too politically correct and more people could have died couldn't they. and i think you know we've seen those who've been really going against the instructions and the rules and we've seen the flooded you know beaches and bars and nightclubs and so on and i think you know we need to be very balanced in when a community is trying to be very supportive and we must be shot for 4 months now even some of the opened under the government rules and so on still many mosques around the country they still shut because of we don't know the virus maybe we are tired and fed up with it but the virus is still roaming around and basically as communities we need to make sure that we avoid it as much as possible the challenge

we have up north space is. i mean where we have some towns and cities in the north we have a large proportion of those in communities they are what we call it in living in generational families and big houses quite a few families living together and so on and this is probably one of the concerns that the local health authorities they have which we do also have the same concerns but not any surprises over night just like this and over the course they rose also say at the moment day that the only thing family should be meeting up any way that they. i mean we do not feel like for example this myself is my 2nd edo in 4 months which basically off the rim of and now we didn't go outside at all we stayed at home we didn't even meet anybody we communicated with our families and so on over the phone or face time and so on so we have a lot of people complying and a lot people support of this and you know during this crisis i have to ration basically we've seen a lot of good work from the muslim community and this is something that we

mentioned 2 days ago in the report that the neighbors next door which we believe is was talking about really 200 muslim organizations and groups responding to support their local communities and the citee which is something i'm missing something should be celebrated so on one hand the community is doing its best and all the other hand we need to clear messages and probably have some sort of consultations before we we have them from the news and from the media ever fight it should the government have acted saying is that i mean before families began arranging their travel. i mean if i mean i don't think they discovered the numbers just like in overnight right i've been to be working on those figures for a while and so. yes if really a lot is being given would be would have been a lot for a lot of people. as we have a lot of people traveled across the country to meet their families were people be preparing for aid and so on but what can we do we actually want to make sure that

we beat this virus and the only way to do this by working together and not scapegoating certain communities or exchanging blames fight it out i thank you very much indeed for joining us but you work or boris johnson has also been trying a new catch phrase to help people say short distance there is seems to like a little punch hands face space hands face space plus get a test hands face space get a test its hands face space. and get a test if you have a if you have symptoms where the world health organization meanwhile has warned the coronavirus pandemic could be one big wave rather than 1st and 2nd waves of infection that's as the w h o's chief warns that young people are not invincible and need to be convinced of the real risk to health evidence i just had that spikes of cases in some countries are being driven in part by younger people letting down their guard during the

northern hemisphere summer. we have said it before and we will say it again young people are not invincible and w.h.o. spokesperson dr margaret harris told me that it's important to remember that lifting restrictions doesn't mean the virus has gone. well what we mean is that the transmission is still there so the concern was that people saw you know lockdowns over that it was somehow it go away they they had this idea that it might come back later in the year but they had this seemed to be this fixed idea that now it was summer time to ponty and unfortunately that's not the case what you've got transmission anywhere is potentially everywhere and hunt fortunately it's making this very clear doing its utmost to ruin everybody's fun well the u.k.

prime minister as we've been hearing has paused more easing of the lockdown in the u.k. but if it's one big wave what we delaying the inevitable. no you know what we mean by one big wave is that it continues to remain but you need to bring it down you need to bring it down so that those who get most ill and you will have that percentage of people who get most ill can get the treatment they need immediately in your hospitals are not overwhelmed and your hospitals can do the other things they need to be doing to save the lives of those people who get lots of other illnesses i know we've seen some studies in the u.k. that have suggested people have died of a lot of other things that would normally be treated because the hospitals was so overwhelmed by people with severe coded well late on thursday night as we've been hearing the u.k. impose tougher rules on the north so do you know if these localized approaches actually work yes indeed they do and in fact it's a positive thing to see very very localized very targeted approaches because that

means you know we have viruses in other words just as my director my my director of emergency is micro and said you know where your spot fires are when you have one huge fire it's much much more difficult to bring it down and that's why you end up with a whole national lock down but if you just got the spot you can really work out where your transmission is and you can break though that transmission and if you have to do it with lock downs because you're not managing to get people to stay there keep the distance to not touch them out those and on is to maintain that obsession with environmental hygiene and high and again well that's what you have to do and it's been suggested that these local measures are targeting those groups celebrating 8 i mean is targeting certain communities the way to go or could it make them feel victimized. i would not say that you would be targeting particular groups and by the way to everybody watching. in know if you target the epidemiology and i'm sure that's what's going on we've actually seeing more of that it's younger age groups

going out and have doing what young people normally do it during a lovely summer. and we're seeing this around the world by the way it's not simply in europe with done analysis of the days here and there that the caseload has really shifted into the younger age groups. the u.k. government is pressing ahead with changes to workplaces from saturday these allow 1st to have to scratch in on bringing back stuff you've been working from home during the coded 1000 pandemic previously the advice was for everyone to work from home if they can from the 1st of august we would update our advice on going to work. instead of government telling people to work from home we're going to give employers more discretion and ask them to make decisions about how their staff can work safely that could mean of course continuing to work from home which is one way of working safely and which has worked for many employers and

employees or it could mean making workplaces safe by following keep it secure guidelines where the changes mean even those who could do their work from home can be asked to return to their offices such a situation will be up to the discretion of the employer or the changes also mean that 2200000 of the most vulnerable people who've been shielding since the onset of the pandemic could also be asked to return but there is disagreement within the government ranks we're still at a time when distancing measures are important and all of the various distancing measures working from home for many companies remains a perfectly good option because it's easy to do i think a number of companies think it's actually not that dramatic of the productivity and in that situation i've seen no reason i can see to change him. well for more on

returning to the office i was joined earlier by workplace strategist spend muller he told me that there's not enough discussion about public transit and how people will get back into work it certainly is a step in a positive direction the safety of employees should always be paramount but obviously the economic considerations are understandably becoming increasingly important we are going to go as internet research remarkable work from home server which the desire from to work provides us there is generally a shift on average from private code and 0 to one working from 2 to 2 days awake desired. so this means that the office still plays a critical role in a 6 significant proportion of the time we desire to be allocated and it also in trying to make that as you said people feel secure there in the workplace to master public transport and also covert secure workplaces how instill that sense of confidence in people but i think that's

a really critical aspect obviously covert secure workplaces is one of the really key determinant factors again and it really is a question of balance straight striking a balance between maximizing flexibility and also ergativity is dependent on a number of facts and so as you mentioned safety it's equally making sure an office is a bit secure also the location of employees and ease of access to the office location as you discuss business performance industry sector type of employee roles and and also activities look i think we're very conscious of the public transport will be one of the real primary constraints giving is a glee back to the office and we think that there is is more dialogue needed and we're having dialogue with our clients have more discussion around our public transport really in short people a safe and secure on their way to work as well as that area. coming up after the

break. an english council launches its own test in tray system after frustrations with the government's approach as northern ireland becomes the 1st home nation to finally know what a tracing out we hear from a tech expert. ah no team no crowd. no shots no. action well to be. well it's true no the 1st 12. points your thirst for action.

is your media a reflection of reality. in the world transformed. what will make you feel safe from. the isolation for community. are you going the right way or are you being led somewhere. direct. what is true what is faith. in the world corrupted you need to descend. to join us in the depths. or a maybe in the shallows. welcome

back juana english council has developed its own covert 19 tracing system amid growing frustrations with the centralized approach the director of public health in sandwell near birmingham lisa mcnally said they were taking a more proactive approach i wouldn't go quite so far as to say we've given up on test and trace but we're not happy with disallowing them to do their job anymore i just don't see the urgency to fix this i really don't see them running around in a panic as soon as the new case comes in now we're not waiting for test and trace to fail to reach them were phoning them the same day well attested to a system which has cost taxpayers over $10000000000.00 pounds has been hit with numerous issues since its launch it's been criticized for not reaching enough close contacts of those with the virus which in some areas is just 52 percent the app which was trials on the isle of wight in may was scrapped after it emerged that it

didn't work on i phones well that project was also hit with privacy concerns about the creation of a centralized database unlike other models where data is stored on individual devices the latest app is yet to make an appearance but technology expert bill news things any further delay will be bad for the u k. we were very late with the original lockdown we were very late with some of our testing we were late with b.p. and we've gotten right in informant terms of the up and being late with that as well our concerns are that any further delays is simply going to escalate opposition as the sick nation of europe where the government tried one centralized version and scrapped it after previously where is that the main hold up here. the one of the main hold ups here is actually adoption and confidence in me or what you need certainly for a whole load of different approaches that are required for co-create whether it's people returning from a holiday and being asked to sell parts like you need that cooperation to do that

whether it's people conforming to all the other rules you need the cooperation to do that also you need a lack of confusion so they know what it meant to be cooperative if you got that sort of level of cooperation and you'd minimize confusion then you need to drive up adoption of the app and you actually need a map of a global that you can use so therefore even when the n.h.s. at a pariah has i mean are the public going to use it they're not has the public trust gone. there is great concern about. that the number of follies and missteps that there have been or what along the way has undermined the level of trust and that may affect the level of adoption but it comes as northern ireland launches its own track and trace app ahead of the rest of the k. when an infected person gets a positive test there issued a code well this code is then inserted into the app triggering a bluetooth to other phones that have been in close contact the app also works

across the whole island thanks to an agreement where both jurisdictions share data of infected patients well bill mears thinks the northern irish app could be adopted by the rest of the u k. northern ireland took the right approach right from the word go whereas the rest of the u.k. decided to do a slight detour of our of the isle of wight an approach that was floored right at the outset what about the cost as well i mean what are they going to look like for the n.h.s. and i mean the republic of ireland at cost under $800000.00 pounds that seems really good value for money. i guess i must applaud the group but not now and did manage to achieve this i haven't seen the op in operation but i can't see why we wouldn't actually have a level of a contrition here and accept the flaws along the way and possibly adopt the same outlook madame's got there's no reason that we should be proud defiant and during our own doings that's goes into trouble already well the northern end up there it works cross border as well and actually 2 there could that be extended then to

include more of the u.k. in theory it could it depends on what systems it sets up what we're on the ground and also we need to be able to be pointing people to the right up to it to adopt it and to get widespread adoption we've already sent them in the wrong direction wants with and that has failed to to take off or to work correctly. and finally scotland's 1st minister nicola sturgeon has been named the world's 5th most eloquent politician new zealand's just under arden topped the rankings but the scottish leader was praised for being clear calm and compassionate the team compiled the rankings after an ally zing over 100 hours of public a foot it should say from public addresses may june 2020 but the group criticised prime minister boris johnson for what they called a tendency to deliver confusing messages in the form of muttering and waffling. yes face coverings i think people should be wearing in shops but in terms of how we

. do that we will build build build build back better build back greener build back faster. the ultimate. tool of the national law you have to keep that in reserve but nobody nobody wants to do that ever again i'm happy to point out. actually. there are but you know you on the point about what should people do in the message for employees and all our workforce in the country it's what you know you know i have discussed before. other that when using hoffa now to see.

if there was competition or free market competition in drugs in america the price will be low that's the beauty of free market capitalism the fact that you don't have free market capitalism for drug prices in america shows you have an entrenched oleg obviously or monopoly and they gouge its price gouging and he's right so you try to dismantle that but without that kind of preview for these drugs for these companies that however i don't see how they're going to command the multiples they do on the stock market so he's he's got it that's the thing he's either going to take a 50 percent hit on the stock market korea's going to lose a lot of people that need the drug. thinking of getting a new trick on the ones we got in here she's not around why is he didn't know what to do he was trapped in this time you know why are we going to use

a crate with him he will just stir reaching out into the wall when it's pretty much anywhere near and thousands of breeding dogs are caged in the in human conditions on puppy farm i mean 67 years you know they've been locked up in cages outside you see no protection from the weather the heat you know the cold air the rain the snow the funder nothing they have no protection. to get the you. know it's ok. across the u.s. cruel puppy mills are supported by dog shows and stores most of the puppies that are coming from these large scale factory farming kind of operations are being sold in stores even giant. good businesses are involved like cargill in one sentence there has been a shocking amount of the organizing opposition to adverts to increase the standards of care for dogs bred in commercial rating for so many most of that opposition is coming from huge agricultural groups and industries that have nothing to do with

jobs don't buy dog. in their free for underage prostitutes are controlled by a pimp 'd these traffickers exploit on average 4 to 6 girls that anyone turn in the investigators are going to try to find out you've done you know belongs to a pimp her cell phone could contain vital information you know we're going to end up keeping your phone. because no no no no no no no no no no it's not over it's like there's nothing to hide if you are trying to some of our parents and this is a final word no you don't check off her ready. the young female is refusing to unlock her cell phone without a doubt so that she can protect her pimp but the tattoo on her hand has caught the detective's attention well explain some of these to those mean. the 1st time

someone you don't know. if you have a 1st. 30 people don't know that's who you with. what about the crowd. you know. that's worse now for him to like. that's who they were for the crowd he's there so if it was just this is common practice among pimps they brand their girls like cattle. pimp is called shy meaning ruthless. and the whole dizzy time you saw one time he just turned 21. this is. tears on his health and. girl's parents and because they were watching that is no doubt and they found my 4 rows in the house mommy girls do you think yes he did tell you you are in the army and i wouldn't want to tell. the so about the baby what was

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