in the world corrupted you need to descend. to join us in the depths. in the shallows. last protests of this. 4th day as police begin dispersing crowds on the rest of demonstrators. to russia claims to be the world's 1st country with a coronavirus vaccine we visit the factory producing the treatment. we call since a devastating blast reduced to ruins many struggle with their grief including those who lost in the tragedy. and who feel when she grows up she can no hero she will know what happened to him. she will no longer have died for reasons.

those are the headlines this hour the cause reporters on your way in just a few moments. in the studio. to give you the morning news headlines. hi i'm max kaiser welcome to the kaiser report summer solutions that's right we solve all the world's problems by bringing in the biggest genius to the way we know that i've ever been on the show and we're going to talk about a very scary the word and that of course is the flakes and joining us former tech entrepreneur jeff booth he's the author of the price of tomorrow why deflation is

the key to an abundant future this book has caught fire amongst the crypt a community they call community all communities it's really a fantastic book stating so jeff but i want to ask you because deflation is usually associated with depression and bad times and nobody likes us but based on the title of your book the key to an abundant future it sounds like you're quite optimistic about deflation so how exactly do you define deflation and how might it lead to abundance transitioning from an inflationary world to what the flexner. people should be scared right there is there is going to be disruption and that destruction is coming no matter what there is nothing fundamental that governments can do to stop the rate of technology progress if you just ask about what technology does it's close to remove labor right that's why we use it no company ever goes in and builds technology it increases technology so that their costs go out or their market share doesn't go up they use it to reduce labor and they use it

to buy the fund and what's happening is is you have the work technology moving in an exponential pace driving driving prices down and governments all around the world are caught in an inflationary trap that they created that so it's out of monetary policy fighting against force and i would ask a simple question isn't it good when the value of your money goes up and prices go down but for you personally and so so if we could see that that could be a good thing. and that means we could work less time and the abundance from technology would be broadly distributed instead of being concentrated like it is today i cut something now much i want to focus on this big ben read your book and i've talked to a couple times and you emphasize that the transition to a deflationary economy i think that's key because we had to flesh our economy back

in the 1800s or so under a cult standard which was a very productive era and it worked wonderfully to kape kind of a check and balance on world trade but then there was a transition to money system or an inflationary system that was a band-aid and kept adding more band-aids onto an underlying structural problem and that was budget deficits and political. problems and all these were papered over with more money and now we're going back to hard money to try to get out of a problems of the paper money so it's a transition that that tells us it's like the old joke you know if you fall off a cliff and the 1st 1000 feet are no problem it's the last foot that kills it right so it's that transition to the coming out of this inflationary prices that that might cause my question is do we absolutely have to come out of this paper money inflationary period why can't it just go on forever it's not going to go on forever

no matter what and and in look people in any country say ok we can do this in our country if you if you follow this extensively so so if you but if you start with the emmy empty crowd or the debt doesn't matter crowd it doesn't matter until it does one giant saying that mass is serious tumor a reserve currency goes on forever. and you can just keep printing and people keep trusting your currency and i love to use this thought experiment for that reserve currency and this thought experiment is. far from a thought experiment that might be real what if a country let's say china created a currency and decided to keep on printing forever and use that currency and it didn't change in value and they used it to buy the worked about everything all the assets and then they decided ok we have the assets no that's default on our currency. would we trust that currency as they were doing and

and so you can see through that thought experiment that if you just keep on printing money people lose faith in your currency and nobody's going to choose and so you don't have a reserve currency anymore so there's a whole bunch of people that like i think are brainwashed in this debt doesn't matter that this can go on forever and and it's going to happen gradually i'm not saying that the u.s. currency is going to fail tomorrow but it is going to gradually gradually gradually we are already past the point arrest it is going to there is nothing that can stop this rather than we are going to have to fleshing for sure because structurally technology requires. the path to get to deflation could end up through hyperinflation 1st i'm currency d. fault debt default it could have been a whole bunch of different ways but we are going to have deflation in the end of course it's the reserve currency of the us dollar that cannot print and just buy up all the assets which they've been sent assets and goods and services by the way for

just printing out free money but i it did remind me when you were saying that of switzerland which over the past 3 or 4 years has just been printing swiss francs and buying up apple and other corporations so some on the edge can get away with this but what about it's so you believe that technology is constantly inventing it we're getting to the point where robots ai virtual reality all the stuff will displace a lot of workers but how does the money get distributed by how does the wealth creation of those robots will those robots decide to keep it for themselves and sell their goods and services to other robots like how do people who used to be workers how do they. get some of this wealth that's the point they can't in an inflationary environment it's in part it's impossible and so what's happening is if the concentration of wealth because because you're fighting a natural force capitalism can't work right so that so effectively the government

is the market today free market free free market principles don't work anymore the government is it becomes the entire market whether it's u.b.i. all of these things to try to get people to pay more is more drain more government in both and business which means you stop letting things fail and there is no pricing mechanism and couples that's what's happening today that's actually why and it's so hard to comprehend because deflation is a we've never seen that in our lifetimes we've never seen where what if next year everything around you got cheap what if you purchase a new suit it all it does is increases the value of your savings and decreases the value of your assets right at the end so as jobs came out of the market. the the people wouldn't fall so far actually a follow on on what we're talking about right now when government just printing

right now why do you think the top 5 companies the technology companies are setting historic us why because money is racing to technology companies and companies need to keep the only way they compete is to remove labor faster so in an in a crazy in a crazy way. the central banks are trapped in the same thing they created and by and by printing more everybody knows that that's where the s. and p. is so far they're racing into the only thing that's a fair story value it might be overvalued right now but in a relative story value that's why the stock prices of the technology companies are racing ever higher because they take labor away faster right i think we can tease out a couple of points here so your point about why wouldn't it be nice to have things cost less next year you know what's all what's bad about deflation so you know the the kind of the counterargument to this is that the reason we haven't place an

ostensibly is due to the credit cycle and that the ability to borrow money is important to get entrepreneurial projects off the ground for companies to expand for cap ex and so to have the ability and deflation of course that imply that you've got credit contraction so therefore credit becomes harder to come by and you don't have that expansion that associated with a credit cycle and so you would have you know less money in your pocket type there's another is asleep in large cycles in play here but to tease us out a little bit more when you apply what you're saying to the currency itself it starts to make more sense because you're saying that what if the currency were deflationary let's say pickling for exam. apple or are called is moderately inflationary it's not a place around. then you can still have your credit expansion but based on an

underlying store of value right now it just comes down jeff's actually putting these arguments to money itself right 100 percent 100 percent there is no reason you couldn't have crashed in a deflationary environment there's no reason it's just the savings become more valuable and if i'm going to take it if i'm going to take my savings and loan those savings to somebody else i'm going to want to return on my money and i'm going to need to understand the lifetime value of that return on my on my money so that money is getting more and more valuable and so i need to have a good return on that so on on that money it's just but the problem is we're what you're saying is in an inflationary world where we've always lived the transition is proved because if you love the place and to happen. that depth goes up say gets more expensive exponentially more expensive and so governments are trying to say

they they created the mass is inflation is a central banking phenomenon they created the mass technology sector technology has moved it used to be demographics china china doing many sac sharing that was also. the place nerium place an area and technology has moved to the number one wave bigger and it's the most it's the biggest impact of placement coming forward and we're still looking backwards at it. and central bankers like how many people are talking about this how big a big an impact this is they're still talking about their historical models and what can happen it doesn't it actually all of this doesn't matter it's going to happen anyways because technology is a bigger force in our life fact every single thing that you're using my i'm using this to meeting this everything else we're celebrating to play ssion in everything we see from your phone to to google searches to everything else so it's just it's

going to be impossible to start a riot he well the book is the price of tomorrow jeff both as the author wrote in to take a break and when we come back pick it up where exactly is this robot rebellion going stay right there.

i don't meet those goals even some of my friends school jane dishes or if your humanity is sloth died for the most you by going by each. moment us. allies of all you. change your whole life change each.

welcome back to the kaiser report summer solutions imax guys will stay there but we're talking with jeff booth is the author of the price of tomorrow why deflation is the key to an abundant future sounds good we'll get to that in a minute but i kind of want to pick up on we're been talking about just you know the industrial revolution and even the 1st part of the information revolution capitalism 'd kind of has 2 main koester imports now the labor and material but we're in the 2nd half of the information revolution now the network information revolution and the cost of material is going down to 0 and that's when you see what you're talking about here deflation is that the basic components of the information economy whether it's band with processing power or digital storage the costs are all going down to 0 so that puts everything upside down and flips it on its head and then you have this idea what happens to labor then how do you compensate labor

if you're mitt basic materials free electrons or free and so then it becomes a tech not for see you have people that can manipulate those free electrons and extract wealth from the masses as we say in the big tech companies google apple microsoft facebook they get the users to build their platforms for them and they can scale just add another server and now they're you know 100 worth a trillion $1.01 half trillion dollars and so that's a structurally it's a structural problem that nobody saw coming what you're saying in your book is 'd. people don't understand this aspect to it because they are thinking backwards they're thinking about the duster revolution even the information revolution and now but they just don't understand it so and obviously policymakers don't understand it politicians don't understand it is. if it's going to be as it's going to envelop the economy and we're going to look back and to say well we just enact

fast enough we never we don't we don't get it i mean i don't see how anyone's going to really be able to act in it and be a proactive jap i think are just going to be swept away by this one thing it's why i wrote the book because nobody's saying it coming they couldn't put $2.00 and $2.00 together and in the same exact qualities that there's hearings today about the monopolies. and and and in the hearings in the policymakers have no idea that they've created the monopolies faster. by by printing money they're concentrating wealth faster instead of the well if you had a functioning capitalists system without my good with hard money what would happen is as things priced to 0 great entrepreneurs would come in and keep on working right to try to find where there's a marginal return and prices would keep falling and that would mean that the abundance from technology would be broadly shared our time is the most valuable

thing then our lives and what we've done to it by vice by by by staying on the system is we've taken a giant parts of the property lation that are working countless hours to keep up with count it with a set price inflation that is this created by central bank bangs and robbed them of their time so they're spending 4080 hours a week working on a mostly 0 to try to save enough money to buy a house while there are all their real wages are going down in value and houses are running away and price so that they can retire the last 10 years of their life in relative safety. that's why they're working so hard right and and and and if you just inverted it and lout natural forces to happen our time would be more valuable because the braai if you would if it would necessitate a broad sharing of the technological technological abundance to society that's

exactly what would happen but it's really hard to see max it's really hard to see stacy because it challenges all of our preconceived thoughts right challengers everything because we've never seen it before let's return to the workers because we have a situation unique at the moment in modern history as well which is the pandemic and the vast majority of the population is at home and they're actually making more money now 75 percent of workers in america than they did before the pandemic when they actually had to go out and toil and labor so now they're at home they're earning more maybe they don't want to return to work because why would you want to sit in traffic jams and go to a horrible office building on in some suburb when you can stay home make more money hang out with your family is this like the beginning of what is called the universal basic income u.b.i. that says this saves on the far end of socialism communism the the evil is a function and nobody's looking at u.b.i.

and how do you pay for your right it's magical mayo will print more money right so loops back to it loops back to the same problem right the day and yes people will want it people will people will demand it because why do those people have all the wealth and we don't and they're going to demand their politicians to say pay me at home but again it comes back down to. it's not reasonable there's no way to create without destroying your currency if there is no way to actually pay for that without it so all of these solutions that people are talking about are more access point more band-aids on a systematic structural change has to take place and and if they can kids and so what we're really trying to stop is a revolution right but they're making the revolution more more likely making war revolution more likely with every step along the way let's look at this in terms of

solutions right so when you're describing a situation where the cost materials the guns they're out and the value added is being created by people are people on social media who are working for free rights of laborers free to giving free hours and then because the technology is free to build out the social media platforms they get a free ride that's why you've got multi 100 billionaires and an emerging peasant class that's why you've got this incredible gap opening up in society because of this odd as you point out the book is kind of like a unforseen crack in in reality almost that suddenly the cost of doing business goes to 0 right that would never be considered then we've never had negative interest rates right this is all everything is brand new they never had a negative oil price it's all happening strangely ok so being entrepreneurs like we are there's gotta be a way to get in there and figure out how to rectify this there's got to be

a solution so here's my solution here's my proposal is that for the big tech companies one area that's possibly we could rebalance us all thing is in the area of intellectual property copyrights and patents. over the past 50 years hollywood has its lobby for perpetual copyright used to be limited to 17 years and now it's basically lifetime plus 70 years or perpetual copyright they the free stuff in the public domain all intellectual property comes from the public domain it has a monopoly value of temporaries supposed be temporary and then it supposed to return to the public domain but with the current copyright laws in place now that material stays behind a corporate firewall now would it be possible to rebalance a condom a by making these corporations actually pay for an optional property rollback ip

laws back to 17 years and then it all goes back to the public domain that's my proposal i've been saying this for years large logic stanford university but arguing this for decades i'm sure you know his work would this be a key component to fix this problem i don't think it's the right one because it's not because a lot of this is so is so you're saying effectively the people that are creating the content on google or they get paid for the content they're creating right and so forth or that redistributing that way i'm saying that the corporations would it would remove it would it would bring move a barrier to entry for competition in other words once all that ip returns the public domain there will be you know 100 goebbels 100 different companies are competing for each other they want to have one company like google which now secondly owns all the public domain or disney owns all the stories going back to you know 200 years you know they re packages and on the company all that stuff goes

back in and it creates competition it creates new companies and that would be a boost and my peers let me let me use google as a quote in my book extensively and what creates the value in google it's actually pretty simple what was free it's the same for every 6 tech monopoly right now. what it creates the value is it's free service aggregate supply and why supply aggregates there is because they make more money than the former channel. and once they aggregate so all of supply it's not it's not technology that's the winner it's the ai that sitting in the middle of choosing that supply you will never as a consumer go to page 452 and go you could all the supply in the world they have that index $130.00 trillion websites and you would get it you wouldn't go there so it's a competition of supply it funny enough in a free market economy that is racing to try to find value. and that's what that's what creates the value is the network effect of that. so changing copyright laws

doesn't protect that in fact that makes the point of why we have to allow deflation to happen because it wouldn't concentrate is great if you allow deflation to happen that would be that that would be the thing because there wouldn't be as much money in the giant monopolies to be able to do it the people wouldn't reduce price all the way along let's talk about a global deflation and a depression or sort of fashion should we have a global war on the 4th rate because i've noticed that there is an escalation a very sharp escalation in tensions with china that seem to coincide with them having his son the united states suddenly realizing that they dominate in high tech whether it's 5 g. artificial intelligence virtual reality that they rule that walled and therefore the future is is america like allow this deflationary future that maybe china and chinese corporations my control that's the real geopolitical fight right now that's

going on right underneath the nose us that we don't know there is no if in us i'm going to go be pretty cold here there is no way the government is going to break up google. facebook the rest because if they do they see the ai's theory already checked. and that's the real race and if they so so so in a communist get government and some to manage their government they're collecting all this data at the if the ai capabilities of china what's happening there i've seen firsthand i've seen some of what's what's happening there i know some of the city c.e.o.'s there what's happening there is mind boggling how fast it's moving because it's because it's aggregating data on mass and they don't have to ask anybody's permission. right and so breaking up the monopolies and in the u.s. effectively seize control of ai to try and sell unlike the ninety's had

a 20 twentieth's we have a i and you're saying that all those trends that we've seen now for 30 years to our cost going to 0 ad artificial intelligence to the max and it becomes a whole nother layer of interesting economic herself in particular with china because for example there are discussions about their app called tic tac tick tock excuse me and so tick tock apparently a spying allegedly spying on users and accumulating data and then it goes into an ai machine and then if they're able to exploit that to gain market share to gain intelligence to game psychological intelligence right because value people are wedded to their phones in a psychological way and they are being nudged or psychologically influenced to behave in certain ways which could be very handy you know if you're trying to compete right you just nailed it max that is the same and it's going on around us. it's it's a feature of the system not a bug that it finds things that we want. right and so we were being we were

being nudged on on some of these with a realization that it's changing our minds. and then it's actually changing our minds and then we see it and we're arguing something's been changed our minds from a kind of a central power on so i totally agree all right jeff gerth got to cut it off there thanks a lot ben now because reports are solutions thank you very much and that's going to do it for this edition of casa reports on resolutions of backs and states you want to thank jeff both things the author of this fat new book the price of tomorrow why deflation is the key to an abundant future if you want to catch us on twitter oh my gosh you're being influenced it's kaiser report until next time i offer.

an entire village in alaska has had to move if another country threatened to wipe out an american town. we do everything in our power to protect the. water they skipping the climate change poses the same threat right now alaska has seen some of the fuss just coastal erosion in the world we lost about 30 feet. 35 feet of ground in just about 3 months while we were measuring. is fast paced the river is 3 closers a town. was nearly 4 times the were part of america 1st for him or the crowd. we're. joined me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm show business. i'll see you then.

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