welcome to the alex savin show where during this global pandemic a leadership election is quite like going on behind me here at westminster originally no less than 5 i took the 11 liberal democrat m.p. found to turn to being leader but one by one the field to spend out until only 2 to me acting leader and favorite a davy and the author dame pete milam around. today we asked former leader 13th capel test the strength and weaknesses of the challengers for the crime well i think they're both strong and you know will be well served which of them wins i mean now and davie obviously has they experienced a member of the cabinet after environment heavily into climate change negotiations things of that shined later it's different she came in after a day coalition

a completely new generation will approach things in a fresh and different way and then former liberal democrat presidential candidate land or pick pick i wonder if they had they've uns and be more of the same he looks like the favorite because he's had a lot more coverage because he's been knocked in leader but in actual fact made up more on stage should win because she's really the only person i have to say who's got a chance of becoming the posse if you really pin me down my money's on lay them around because i think all the students say way. all that to come but 1st your tweet e-mails and messages on last week's show on the art scene looked at in which featured elaine c. smith and guidance for dale 1st joel says i really love the speak show about the future and laughed out loud to funny story about their vehicle with their 784 local bank through the whole team keep up the good work with thank you and keep watching richard says just watch the interview with alex semin to speak about god for dos

and to be great to hear about your work jumping arts in scotland and establishing a national theatre agree with your criticism of edinburgh festival night dominated by comedy and commercial interests it urgently needs an overhaul fraser says it's quite a relief the edinburgh festival is not on it's so peaceful here it is exhausting heating the doing. nelson says a fine example in further interest and encouragement in this field much attention has always been given to the to it as an industry that is of course the real task ahead in the rebuilding of industrial workplaces that once were right he says i took spanish friends last year it was dreadful we couldn't walk couldn't find a place to eat or sit and they had a very bad impression of. dave says i beat a file of the edinburgh festival and have introduced many of my friends and family to it it's north toward raymond says was there last year for the festivals loved it one of my best vacations ever and finally i aberdeen see great to see the edge of

festivals continuing as an event but night to the liberal democrats alex is joined by the former party leader servants capel. that assess as to hoffa is full of the liberal democrat leadership who better than former party leader sivan's cable who joins me from his home in twickenham events welcome to the alex some until now it's great to be with the other. segments. davey both sav done to you when you are a liberal democrat liberal you know them a particular well i would just say the contrasting styles in the strengths and weaknesses of both candidates are well i think that both strong and you know will be well served whichever whens i mean out at davy obviously has they experienced from a member of the cabinet looked after environment heavily into the i'm a changed negotiations things about china and knows a lot of economics mcgann are good good economic background layer is is different

she came in after at a coalition a completely new generation very fresh approach and interesting right cosmopolitan background and now her mother was a studio and she's in a 0 you know quite a lot of that in our outlook looking international way of looking at the world and she's buildout in the last 3 years on education she's very strong on education issues it's all levels and will approach things in a fresh and different way. you get a feeling for of who might be ahead in the race thus far than you by thing any particular candidate and no i haven't come committing myself by the way i do think as a former leader it's helpful but sometimes not right i don't i doubt be with either of them i would guess a david has some in the advantages because he's been around a while everybody knows him in the party latest trying to make themselves known but me out there but the thing with the sporting charm city is of course

a very unorthodox system of leadership are staying is entirely down the remote rate so we don't normally have. it's been quite difficult to generate a huge amount of publicity for the leadership contest i'd say the party ranks the self to do you think that that's a feature of the global pandemic they ought to as a more a common failing on the other party only having the 11 m.p.'s but it's a mix of both but the biggest challenge was in the same challenge i have but it's now worse is that the party's breaking through 3 you know really bad elections 1617 and last year has been knocked back and i think mr chicory hard last time because we built up sent me in the last stages when i was leader to a good position about 20 percent of the polls we were doing well in the government in the year elections and we slumped again and picking our peoples in the raw in

those circumstances is really very difficult so i don't envy the new leader it's a major task and of course you have this additional problem that if you have a small number of m.p.'s you get very little attention in town and seats difficult to be cold in a way very much to false prophecy after your proxy and in parliamentary terms it's also difficult to get into the media so it's it's going to be a very difficult job i found it hard and out of bed modestly 70 you past all the great electoral success that you had as leader only a year ago in the european elections where you were 20 percent of the vote came 2nd in the polls labelled the tories were absolutely the no where. there's any forethought a few big. staying on the taking advantage of the platform and and leaving the past into the last general election. and i think we will have mixed feelings about these things and i've made

a conscious decision i want suture pass on to the next generation and get on with not i can do anything richard what i'm doing now but. yeah i see. sometimes think there you know if i've been there i wouldn't have done this i would never down that but i think whoever had been leader we were going to have problems in that said december election now actually one of the fractures in interest very powerful in the kind of children leading areas they named live stock and that's you know different politics but with a massive deterrent effect of mr cosby in you know i got down off the door people saying we got to vote for you your group agree with you and you're a weak white guy your client say that we're not going to risk having that not running the country and now unfortunately you know really did for ascribe to a lot of damage but no one ever been leader and would have had to contend with what was a moment last year in the aftermath of this johnson's defeat in may and the supreme

court when his policy on parliament was the clear unlawful when his government was rocking what was so any moment. and blacks that coalition could have been brought together with a of the flexibility and the and change the course of history or do you think that it was an illusion that that could have happened well there was a kind of and she breaks it coalition you know we work together i work together very runway for environment and the russian nationalists and you have the greens now this chiller effect as we had a very good operation about that there wasn't enough for. the mention actually behind they the idea of a new a referendum on the on the outcome they negotiate exact was the critical thing and that was in large part because there was a substantial body of labor m.p.'s maybe fake joining the call going in south was

ambiguous can we just didn't have enough to get that over going on in the unfortunately that was a critical thing and with some level. a moment where a compromise candidate as an end to the prime minister kevin clash failure could have been found or was that something ruled out by the labor party while the liberal democrats were ruling out jeremy carbon what was them nothing could have been done to given the proximity of brecht's the john snow to doning state while you had the chance i think that was the signal at the right light certainly played with it now i argued for it no once of this did some good i can pluck them in the well this that he is a superb character who wasn't a party leader could have commanded prosperities book that was in the need the solution i think there was a genuine problem with the labor party is that means there was a very public relation by government that privately they might settle that there are certain we you know my parent teacher got quite

a strident position of not having the labor leader and i think if we could have got that neutral 3rd term see if we go ahead leader that we might have made some headway on that and i think historians will focus on that particular point that was there was a point at which the campaign starts the regular way and those are the enthusiasm in the run up to the general election from the liberal democrats and indeed the s.n.p. that's their have an election but the end game is the johnsons and domingue state with 80 seat majority in the can basically do a likes. these they were fighting state of course but with that and say that probably wasn't the wisest election to be forced ever it wasn't i mean i think i could understand why your proxy for string election and they were in and doing doing very well in the polls in scotland. i think out case it probably was

a mistake we could have come back and try to modify the legislation on the treaty as it went through parliament. i think if we made one big mistake it was calling for revoke an hour i mean i mean we all agreed that in the final analysis revocation was the thing to do that rueful as a campaigning is here it wasn't right. great campaign for 2 years i'm guessing the referendum we should start with that i think a lot of people were aware of the parts off with me at the correct tray idea or just curious knowing me that art's referendum having is one of the mistakes that some of our campaign has made and how should the potty approach but i accept no no that that has as happened legally and is about to happen economically and how it's in the past these authors you've done the deed the the 2 candidates the leadership of the host the deal with the the blacks the issue now but i think you know the

shouting about it trouble isn't helpful nobody's listening on that certainly on the other side people made up their minds the thing is gone through it so clearly easy to sound you know a side rapes backward looking i think well when i would like to say that they believe this do is to sketch out a kind of a future which is here opinion but isn't just talking back to the owner arrangements and that i think we will see in the next 5 to 10 years and an approach within europe which ally was certain countries to go it's a different spade i know this is often they discuss macron his has advocated it that in countries that are not toxic they have monetary the and have no intention of vain but nonetheless wish to play out an important role in europe from them probably are able to get back to a kind of norwegian type of close straight integration i mean i think that's that's

the frame in which pro europeans and i think in your county as well would probably be proud comfortable with that kind of position. think about that after the big 4 more from beneath cable as he and alex discussed the liberal democrats contest for a new leader with the that. was a pandemic no certainly no borders and a flight into nationalities. has emerged to be we don't like seeing the whole world to be. judged as commentary crisis like this sometimes. we can

do better we should. everyone is contributing each of our own way but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever the challenges created with the response has been much so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are in it together. carmencita's. in the early ninety's. a psychologist mixologist proposed to the west but incentive to social experiment wanted to let paedophiles and top down care for neglected boys experiment was a. good model. on what your. your doctor came to believe that sex with older men would help with the

boy's socialization over 30 years many children were handed paedophiles to raise. new questions a little heard more than the dogs. were put on but we can agree most workarounds are. just for gerber's or someone to go to. welcome back as alex talked to former liberal democrat party leader 3rd vince cable . fence cable it's nice to teach it difficult to the liberal democrats have the key of styles or as. the labor party at the fairway a lot of the center ground of politics which decreases the the openings that the liberal democrats would have if the labor party were positioned much further to the left is that

a key strategic difficulty or the how should either of the leadership candidates seek to tackle that but i see it as an opportunity rather than as defeat as i explained earlier i think one of the. reasons a lot about future support has backed off was because of fear of a hard last labor government and i think if you have a labor leadership which if you left it well you know it cares down there i think said nick. as internet cafe break. there are parts of the of the country parks senate of england and of states in scotland whap. you know people will bow to the lib dems and want to and what labor are not serious competitors is ram thinking of my own seats you know right now big down jersey but there are lots of other places around in the south the making then you know the bill for the winter status which didn't go last time which would go next time some of the suburbs a bunch of stuff and para get in yorkshire places like that you know maybe they'd

have said say 50 plus states which we could wait in. a way that way complementary to the labor party rather than competitive. i think that happens you know you got serious numbers for an alternative government. is there in 1970 and that's how many of us got tens of problems in the 1st place you could do a revolution it was a complementarity with the labor party rather than competition you see a fight over their servants cable one that message of the future 3rd then to 5 for some of the the new stars and the the liberal democrat firmament will take the message forward and what would you say to them given your experience and politics will be your message to the rising stars of liberal democracy well i think you know you have to be a resilient and i think people often say don't vote so you need you know real talents and weeks and and intelligence of course those things that matter but they

i think the quality more than anything that you require is stamina ability to take punishment and to keep going on and to come back that sencion simmons of my own party we got some very very good people neera will sing who you are you know 1st i think minority candidate has come up to a general election daisy cooper in some tokens and they're very very capable people and i think it will be in good hands so that's cable former leader of the liberal democrats demonstrate heelers life after politics thank you very much for joining us on the alec salmon field thank you phil so both cable will pay think both leadership kind of gifts like edge to edge t.v. in the race for the liberal crowd for a rather different view alec trying to form a lead then m.p. and political commentator lembit of paint so he's going to win unless

a liberal democrat raise a thumb to former liberal democrat m.p. alleged opec member who's going to when leyla vote on all ahead david. it's a day and 8 but i can give you more than just a casual course to see where that response if that debut ends and be more of the same coming he looks like will hate it because he's had a lot more coverage because he's been young team leader but in actual fact it's laid out more and she should win because she's really the only person i have to say he's got a chance of becoming the party if you really penned me down my money's on laid them around because i think of the students a way so you're backing the site of according to the betting what is the special factor you think. off of the liberal democrats change let's remember that davey carries a huge amount of baggage i used to share an office with many facts and he was right down the line with the nick clegg cabal we know the nick thank about the nick like particularly destroyed the party wrote a book about this and sadly for the lib dems as truth right and just about every

prediction of the other thing about a date is he's mired by the fact that he voted for fees to students direct rate coach a call promised in the trying to time general election and really did pull the student up the lib dems he can't get away from that fact by contrast made them around wasn't there she isn't my it by that problem and also she's quite clearly a radical left leaning libertarian she's quite characterful as well now i don't think david can offer anything new i don't dislike him he's a decent man but i don't think can offer anything new whereas lead him around might be the shots in the on the lib dems need for a long and slow recovery oh let me put the conservation with only 11 members of parliament 5 in the scottish parliament one in the the welsh parliament don't they're liberal they have a x. they need something of a governmental experience to give the the party somewhere that doesn't have them in

terms of numbers they don't need some governmental experience that's irrelevant. if anything it's a negative because the governmental experience that day because he's with them is the baggage of a coalition which destroyed the liberal democrats under nick clegg how does he explain why he voted so consistently with the conservatives when we know that's a big minus a big turn off for many of the traditional liberal democrat voters who deserted the posse when may felt this outed by nick clegg's on of the consent of coalition by contrast then i'm around is not tarnished by that brush that's remembered not temp fire and who has recently did well specifically because he was an outsider during the coalition with the conservatives so i don't think there's any benefits or to be absolutely pedantic about any experience and benefit not sad davy carries with him

from government is more than outweighed by the negatives for exactly the same reason that oppression this. amount on started this favor that davey has no replaced of in the least the bootmaker laws as the odds on favorite so he must be doing something right in this campaign and women must be doing something wrong doesn't follow. i don't think it may look morons doing anything wrong but the bias as i see it in this election is the fact that davey is repeats at the time that as the acting they don't lead or in way thanks now profile as i know for my benefit and to my cost is everything in terms of what the bookies think and it probably does help at baby with a proportion of the liberal democrat electorate but remember this is a fairly small i'm a truly defined group who will also say well at day he was in government and that was catastrophic for us to the an extent then

a moran could went to 70 because she is the outsider you're right about the odds i'm not sure that i'm right about them or on winning but i am sure that had they the wins there won't be a huge left of the party and they'll be carrying all of that package from the coalition which they've really got to cut through strong at davey can't do that they them around count as the big strategic difficulty for the liberal democrats as it's a clear stammers obviously leading lever back to the the center to get out and he's disposing of the the call of the night baggage at a fairly rapid rate of knots doesn't that crowd out the liberal democrats room in the political spectrum isn't that a problem for both of these candidates. yes turned to the question of spin and history records i've been tremendously good and tremendously bad at that my own career so maybe i am qualified to comment the issue here is that day the doesn't create

a radical position on any score there isn't anything new about what that they can say once again i stress i don't dislike him but i just don't see a lot to me he brings to the party michel a that the party hasn't already got and hasn't already suffered when it came to the coalition now look at later on she's a libertarian she's made some pretty radical comments even about sexuality all of that is quite interesting to the lib dems but sensual to all of this is later myron thanks for a self she she has been willing to take some fairly unorthodox positions in the selection now that's exciting i would summarize it like this at davey con recover the party's fortunes anytime soon probably not even a 10 year need to ship them around meit's it's not guaranteed but she might and if there is a definite no and a possible yes i think the party should go for the possible yes. finally a limbo as can

a hope for scenario for the liberal democrats that johnson government becomes deeply unpopular there's a bag on totally swaying and just like a 7 and 1997 liberal democrats are floating then and constituencies wethers no credible challenge from the labor party even couldn't you get a number of m.p.'s and back on on labor's coat tails an is not a reasonable chance of happening and in 5 years time for not they will remember the evils of the coalition government between the tories and the liberal democrats. the lib dems biggest hope is that forces outside their control restore the party's fortunes as you've described the best thing that can happen to the lib dems is the west wing mcnaughton's of the country a catastrophic conservative forest johnson administration it's sad to hope for failure to get successful party but we're talking about facts here rather than

hopes now when it comes to the question of who would benefit most from the party in that circumstance it's still a limb around because they will be some people who remember that ad davy is the risk at de makes the past new could be in trying to go back into another conservative coalition because he's got form then them around hasn't so if there is a lift it would help either of those 2 as leader but it would help later more and more remember the people that the lib dems need back the most are the disillusioned left wing voters at david doesn't offer them much then i'm around us and he's a libertarian. but a wild card in british politics is a wild card i'd be willing to play when you've got little more than a busted flush in your arm well you've been a wild card just self a number of times lebovic thank you for appearing once again by me alex salmond 000 . my pleasure.

the liberal democrat leadership contest this taken place against the back cloth of a global pandemic off necessity it has been a virtual contest have a son vince cable is professionally frank when he says that even the circumstances the been difficult to sustain much excitement after all the liberals have been through 3 bruising general election contests in quick succession the last of which they did much themselves to provoke power politics is always changing the great liberal revival has been forecast many times since lloyd george left office essentially a goal but rather like the holy grail it's been difficult to find and even more difficult to retain equally the equivalent an office at suggestions of the party's imminent demise of also being greatly exaggerated the big ups and downs but they're not dead yet and in politics with those any life

a tall there's always hope and so from this we know myself and all of the show is good bye for now stay safe we'll see you again next week. illustrations but it's what it's best i'm not mr but the style of. which not. even. the free version of the march.

quarter. hospital visit. to. be pushed too much to thomas about it or some. aha no no. no shots. action.

well it's true no 1st. point ch your thirst for action. continues to boil people have already started gathering in the city center again while police are bolstering their forces to will take you through day 4 of the country's post-election plans meanwhile 2 freelancers working for artie's video agency released in minsk they had been detained while covering the protests and also to come she's the 1st african-american running mate in u.s. presidential election history but. the past as california's top cop isn't winning over all of the black lives matter movements.