by bringing in the biggest genius to the way we know that have ever been on the show and we're going to talk about a very scary the were and that of course is the flame and joining us former tech entrepreneur jeff booth he's the author of the price of tomorrow why deflation is the kid to an abundant future this book has caught fire amongst the crypt community the cult community all communities it's really a fantastic book stating so jeff but i want to ask you because deflation is usually associated with depression and bad times and nobody likes us but based on the title of your book the key to an abundant future it sounds like you're quite optimistic about deflation so how exactly do you define deflation and how might it lead to abundance transitioning from an inflationary world to what the flexner. people should be scared right there is there is going to be disruption and that disruption is coming no matter what there is nothing fundamental that governments can do to

stop the rate of technology progress and if you just ask about what technology does it's close to remove labor right that's why we use it no company ever goes and builds technology it increases technology so that their costs go out or their market share in a cigar they use it to reduce labor and they use it to buy the fund and what's happening is is you have the work technology moving at an exponential pace driving rate driving prices down and governments all around the world are caught in an inflationary trap that they created of themselves out of monetary policy fighting against force and i would ask a simple question. isn't it good when the value of your money goes up and prices go down like for you personally and so so if we could see that could be a good thing and that means we could work less time in the abundance from technology would be broadly distributed instead of being concentrated like it is

today i caught something that much i want to focus on this big ben read your book and i've talked to a couple times and you emphasize that the transition to a deflationary economy i think that's key because we had to flesh or economy back in the 1800s or so under a cult standard which was a very productive era and it worked wonderfully to kape kind of a check and balance on world trade but then there was a transition to see a money system or an inflationary system that was a band-aid and kept adding more band-aids onto an underlying structural problem and that was budget deficits and political. problems and all these were papered over with more money and now we're going back to hard money to try to get out of the problems of the paper money so it's a transition that that tells us it's like the old joke you know if you fall off

a cliff and the 1st 1000 feet are no problem it's the last foot that kills it right so it's that transition to coming out of this inflationary prices is that my question my question is do we absolutely have to come out of this paper money inflationary period why can't it just go on forever it's not going to go on forever no matter what and and and look people in any country say ok we can do this in our country if you if you follow this extensively so so if you but if you start with the emmy empty crowd or the debt doesn't matter crowd it doesn't matter until it does one giant saying that mass is serious tumour a reserve currency goes on forever right. and you could just keep printing and people keep trusting your currency and and i love to use this thought experiment for that reserve currency and this thought experiment isn't that far from a thought experiment it might be real what if a country let's say china created

a currency and decided to keep on printing forever and use that currency and it didn't change in value and they used it to buy the worked about everything all the assets and then they decided ok we have the assets no let's default on our currency . would we trust that currency as they were doing and and so you can see through that thought experiment that if you just keep on printing money people lose faith in your currency and nobody's going to choose and so you don't have a reserve currency anymore so there's a whole bunch of people that like i think are brainwashed in this debt doesn't matter that this can go on forever and and it's going to happen gradually i'm not saying that the u.s. currency is going to fail tomorrow but it is going to gradually gradually gradually we are already past the point arrest it is going to if there is nothing that can stop this rather than we are going to have to flashing for sure because structurally technology requires. the path to get to deflation could end up through

hyperinflation 1st i'm currency d. fault debt default it could have been a whole bunch of different ways but we are going to have deflation in the end of course it's the reserve currency of the us dollar that cannot print and just buy up all the assets which they've been sent assets and goods and services by the way for just printing out free money but i it did remind me when you were saying that of switzerland which over the past 3 or 4 years has just been printing swiss francs and buying up apple and other corporations so some on the edge can get away with this but what about it's so you believe that technology is constantly inventing and we're getting to the point where robots ai virtual reality all this stuff will displace a lot of workers but how does the money get distributed by how does the wealth creation of those robots will those robots decide to keep it for themselves and sell their goods and services to other robots like how do people who used to be

workers how do they. get some of this wealth that's the point they can't in an inflationary environment it's in part it's impossible and so what's happening is if the concentration of wealth because because you're fighting a natural force capitalism can't work right so that so effectively the government is the market today free market free free market principles don't work anymore the government is it becomes the entire market whether it's u.b.i. all of these things to try to get people to pay more is more drain more government in both and business which means you stop letting things fail and there is no pricing mechanism and couples that's what's happening today that's actually why and it's so hard to comprehend because deflation is a we've never seen that in our lifetimes we've never seen where what if next year everything around you got cheap. what if you purchase

a new suit it all it does is increases the value of your savings and decreases the value of your assets right at the end so as jobs came out of the market the the people wouldn't fall so far actually a follow on on what we're talking about right now when government just printing right now why do you think the top 5 companies the technology companies are setting historic us why because money is racing to technology companies and companies need to kick the only way they compete is to remove labor faster so in an in a crazy in a crazy way. central banks are trapped in the same thing they created and by and by printing more everybody knows that that's why the s. and p. is so far they're racing into the only thing that's a fair store value it might be overvalued right now but in a relative story going that's why the stock prices of the technology companies are

raising ever higher because they take labor away faster right i think we can tease out a couple of points here so your point about why wouldn't it be nice to have things cost less next year you know what's all what's bad about deflation so you know the the kind of the counterargument to this is that the reason we have inflation sensibly is due to the credit cycle and that the ability to borrow money is important to get entrepreneurial projects off the ground for companies to expand for cap ex and so to have the ability and deflation of course that imply that you've got credit contraction so therefore credit becomes harder to come by and you don't have that expansion that associated with a credit cycle and so you would have you know less money in your pocket type there's another associate large cycles in play here but to tease this out

a little bit more when you apply what you're saying to the currency itself it starts to make more sense because you're saying that what if the currency were deflationary let's say pickling for example or gold is moderately inflationary it's not inflation around the same then you can still have your credit expansion but based on an underlying story value right so it's comes down jeff to actually putting these arguments to money itself right 100 percent 100 percent there is no reason you couldn't predict in a deflationary environment there's no risk it's just saving become more valuable and. if i'm going to take if i'm going to take my savings and loan those savings to somebody else i'm going to want to return on my money and i'm going to need to understand the lifetime value of that return on my on my money so that money is getting more and more valuable and so i need to have

a good return on that so on on that money it's just but the problem is what you're what you're saying is in an inflationary world where we've always lived the transition is proved because if you allow the placement to happen. the dept goes up say gets more expensive exponentially more expensive and so governments are trying to sell it and they they created the mess as inflation is a central banking phenomenon that created the mess technology sector technology has moved it used to be demographics china china doing manufacturing that was all. the place in or in place and technology has moved to the number one wave bigger and that's the most it's the biggest impact of displacement coming forward and we're still looking backwards at. and central bankers like how many people are talking about this how big big an impact this is they're still talking about their

historical models and what can happen it doesn't it actually all of this doesn't matter it's going to happen anyways because technology is a bigger force in our life in fact every single thing that you're using my i'm using this to meeting this everything else we're celebrating to play ssion in everything we use from your phone to to google searches to everything else so it's just it's going to be impossible to start a riot he well the book is the price of tomorrow jeff booth is the author robin to take a break and when we come back pick it up where exactly is this robot rebellion going stay right there. in the. as the u.s. economy was booming growing numbers of people were made homeless. you can work 40

hours in a week and still not have enough to get housing everybody believes america still has the lead up to the reality of those who were not financially quality and the lack of affordable housing for a living minimum wage gave many people new choice though there's been a problem with the city knows turn to richard and told me stay away oh miss colton the food if there is no answer because yes that requires resources the most vulnerable are abandoned on the streets to become the invisible cops. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation let it be an arms race is on off and spearing dramatic development only mostly i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk.

illustrations but it's put to rest and not just get up but just tell the speech that i'm. eat eat eat food for sure how much more i'm going to pitch a slow ball on. the. hospital visit. did. you push the monsignor tom hartman or some.

welcome back to the kaiser report summer solutions on max casual stays there but we're talking with jeff who thinks the author of the price of tomorrow why deflation is the key to an abundant future sounds good we'll get to that in a minute but i kind of want to pick up on we're been talking about just you know the industrial revolution and even the 1st part of the information revolution capitalism 'd kind of has 2 main koester imports now the labor and material but we're in the 2nd half of the information revolution now the network information revolution and the cost of material is going down to 0 and that's when you see what you're talking about here deflation is that the basic components of the information economy whether it's band with processing power or digital storage the costs are

all going down to 0 so that puts everything upside down and flips it on its head and then you have this idea what happens to labor then how do you compensate labor if you're mitt basic materials free electrons or free and so then it becomes a tech not for see you have people that can manipulate those free electrons and extract wealth from the masses as we say in the big tech companies google apple microsoft facebook they get the users to build their platforms for them and they can scale just add another server and now they're you know 100 worth a trillion $1.01 half trillion dollars and so that's a structurally it's a structural problem that nobody saw coming what you're saying in your book is 'd. people don't understand this aspect to it because they are thinking backwards they're thinking about the duster revolution even the information revolution and now but they just don't understand it so and obviously policy makers don't

understand it politicians don't understand it. is it if it's going to be as it's going to envelop the economy and we're going to look back and to say well we just enact fast enough we never we don't we don't get it i mean i don't see how anyone's going to really be able to act in it and be a proactive jap i think are just going to be swept away by this one thing it's why i wrote the book because nobody's saying it coming they couldn't put $2.00 and $2.00 together and in the same exact qualities that there's hearings today about the monopolies. and and and in the hearings in the policymakers have no idea that they've created the monopolies faster. by by printing money they're concentrating wealth faster instead of the well if you had a functioning capitalists system without my good with hard money what would happen is as things priced to 0 great entrepreneurs would come in and keep on working right to try to find where there's a marginal return and prices would keep falling and that would mean that the

abundance from technology would be broadly shared our time is the most valuable thing that in our lives and what we've done to buy advice by. staying on the system is we've taken a giant parts of the property lation that are working countless hours to keep up with count it with a surprising place and that is this created by central bank bangs and robbed them of their time so they're spending 4080 hours a week working on a mostly 0 to try to save enough money to buy a house well there are all the real wages are going down in value and houses are running away and price so that they can retire for the last 10 years of their life in relative safety. that's why they're working so hard. and and and and if you just inverted it and allowed natural forces to happen our time would be more valuable

because the bride he would it would necessitate a broad sharing of the technological technological abundance just society that's exactly what would happen but it's really hard to see max it's really hard to see stacy because it challenges all of our preconceived ots it challenges everything because we've never seen it before let's return to the workers because we have a situation unique at the moment and modern history as well which is a pandemic and the vast majority of the population is at home and they're actually making more money now 75 percent of workers in america than they did before the pandemic when they actually had to go out and toil in labor so now they're at home they're earning more maybe they don't want to return to work because why would you want to sit in traffic jams and go to a horrible office building on in some suburb when you could say home make more money hang out with your family is this like the beginning of what is called universal basic income u.b.i.

that says this saves on the far end of socialism communism in the in the e.b.i. is a function and nobody is looking at the u.b.i. and how do you pay for u.b.s. . it's magical money oval print more money so the loops back to it loops back to the same problem right the the and the yes people will want to act people will people will demand it because why those people have all the wealth in the way they are and they're going to demand their politicians to say pay me at home but again it comes back down to. it's not reasonable there's no way to create without destroying your currency there is no way to actually pay for that without it so all of these solutions that people are talking about are more access point more band-aids on a systematic structural change has to take place and and if they can

kids and so we're really trying to stop is a revolution right but they're making the revolution more more likely making war revolution more likely with every step along the way let's look at this in terms of solutions right so when you're describing a situation where the cost materials the guns they're out and the value added is being created by people are people on social media who are working for free rights of labors free to giving free hours and then that because the technology is free to build out the social media platforms they get a free ride that's why you've got multi 100 billionaires and an emerging peasant class that's why you get this incredible gap opening up in society because of this odd as you point out the book is kind of like a unforseen crack in in reality almost that suddenly the cost of doing business goes to 0 right that would never be considered then we never had negative interest rates right this is all everything is brand new they never had a negative oil price it's all happening strangely ok so being entrepreneurs

like we are there's gotta be a way to. get in there and figure out how to rectify this there's got to be a solution so here's my solution here's my proposal is that for the big tech companies one area that's possibly we could rebalance the solve thing is in the area of intellectual property copyrights and patents over the past 50 years hollywood has its lobby for perpetual copyright used to be limited to 17 years and now it's basically lifetime plus 70 years or perpetual copyright they the free stuff in the public domain all intellectual property comes from the public domain it has a monopoly value temporaries supposed be temporary and then is supposed to return to the public domain but with the current copyright laws in place now that material stays behind a corporate firewall now would it be possible to rebalance this economy by making

these corporations actually pay for an optional property rollback ip laws back to 17 years and then it all goes back to the public domain that's my proposal i've been saying this for years lawrence lessig stanford university but arguing this for decades i'm sure you know his work would this be a key component to fix this problem i don't think it's the right one because it's not because a lot of this is so is so you're saying effectively the people that are creating the content on google or they get paid for the content they're creating and so that redistributing weight i'm saying that the corporations would it would remove it would it would bring move a barrier to entry for competition in other words once all that ip returns the public domain there will be you know $100.00 goebbels $100.00 different companies are competing for each other they want to have one company like google which now secondly owns all the public domain or disney owns all the stories going back to

you know 200 years you know they read. ads and all the company that stuff goes back in and it creates competition it creates new companies and that would be a boost and i think actually let me let me use go talk about in my book extensively and what creates the value in google it's actually pretty simple what why it's free it's the same for every september monopoly right now what it creates the value as a free service aggregate supply and why supply aggregates there is because they make more money than the former channel. and once they aggregate it's all of supply it's not it's not technology that's the wind it's the ai that sitting in the middle of choosing that supply you will never as a consumer go to page 452 and go you could all the supply in the world they have that index $130.00 trillion websites and you would get it you wouldn't go there so it's a competition of supply it funny enough in

a free market economy that is racing to try to find value. and that's what that's what creates the value is the network effect of that. so changing copyright laws doesn't protect in fact that makes the point of why we have to allow deflation to happen because it wouldn't concentrate is great if you allow deflation to happen that would be that that would be the thing because there wouldn't be as much money in the giant monopolies to be able to do it the people wouldn't reduce price all the way along let's talk about a global deflation and a depression or sort of fashion should we have a global war on the 4th rate because i've noticed that there is an escalation a very sharp escalation in tensions with china that seem to coincide with them having his son in the united states suddenly realizing that they dominate in high tech whether it's 5 g. artificial intelligence virtual reality that they rule that walled and therefore

the future is is america like allow this deflationary future that maybe china and chinese corporations my control that's the real geopolitical fight right now that's going on right underneath that knows us that we don't know there is no if in us i'm going to go be pretty bold here there is no way the government is going to break up google. facebook the rest because if they do they see the ai skeery already checked. and that's the real race and if they so so so in a communist get government and something managed to government they're collecting all this data the is the ai capabilities of china what's happening there i've seen firsthand i've seen some of what's what's happening there i know some of the city c.e.o.'s there what's happening there is mind boggling how fast it's moving because it's because it's aggregating data on mass and they don't have to ask anybody's permission. right and so so breaking up the monopolies and in the us

effectively seize control of ai to try and so on like the ninety's here in 20 twentieth's we have a i and you're saying that all those trends that we've seen now for 30 years to our cost going to 0 ad artificial intelligence to the max and it becomes a whole nother layer of interesting economic herself in particular with china because for example there are discussions about their app called tic tac tick tock excuse me and so tick tock apparently a spying allegedly spying on users and accumulating data and then it goes into an ai machine and then if they're able to exploit that to gain market share to gain intelligence to game psychological intelligence right because values people are wedded to their phones in a psychological way and they are being nudged or psychologically influenced to behave in certain ways which could be very handy you know if you're trying to compete right you just nailed it max that is the same and it's going on around us.

it's it's a feature of the system not a bug that it finds things that we want. right and so we were being we were being nudged. on some of these form without a realization that it's changing our minds. and then it's actually changing our minds and then we see it and we're arguing that something's been changed our minds from a kind of a central power and so on so i totally agree all right we've got to cut it off there thanks a lot and now because reports on our solutions thank you very much and that's going to do it for this edition of kaiser reports on resolutions of bags and say if you want to thank jeff both things the author of this new book the price of tomorrow why the if life is the key to it abundant future if you want to catch us on twitter oh my gosh you're being influenced it's kaiser report until next time.

spring comes this syndrome. fall. in the early 1970 s. helmet a psychologist mixologist proposed to the west but consented to social experiment wanted to live paedophiles and neglected boys experiment was a. good model. good to go on with your piece and your girls come to terms with believe that sex with older men would help with the boys socialization over 30 years many children were handed paedophiles to raise. a little hurt more than the dogs. are but we can look at most beliefs where dreams are should be used for good

research someone tear jerker. i know team no crowd. no shots. actually helps me. with a strap no arrests. points your thirst for action. i don't meet those goals even some of my friends school jane this is true if you are you may think you guys east if you don't study for a mouse you are going by each. moment if you catch us now our life influx of all you. don't change your mode

a lifestyle change. but a roof still boils people take to the streets across the country with flowers and balloons becoming increasingly a regular part of the protest will take you through the country's continuing post-election plight. of. palestine that also is a good u.s. brokered peace deal between israel and the united arab emirates that's been branded historic under which israel will hold its west bank and. she's the 1st ever african-american running mate in u.s. presidential election history but come on a harris poll.