i get that because i said they take it off in exchange should they put it on a hard while which they do buying is only the 1st step generally when you're buying in this space you're not actually buying bitcoin you're buying the promise of a bit coin or a big coin iou it is really similar to the banking system and that you know you might have a website that says you own a certain amount of money a certain amount of that coin a certain amount of whatever but when it comes down to it at the end of the day there's counter party risk and as long as someone else is actually holding on to that asset then it can be taken from you or any number of things can go wrong you might not be able to actually access it when you need it so the 1st step is you know getting that iou the next step is learning how you turn that into the real asset that you control yourself so the offer is key management of all the newbie that there are who have a palate bazza big point this year what are the key a's why should they hire you to

manage their gaze jamieson well the best way to describe what we do is actually we help users help themselves we don't want to hold people's keys for them that would just make us another type of bank instead we want to give people soft ware that is user friendly and we want to give them a level of service that they're not going to find with any of the custodial providers out there where we are showing them how they actually create and manage their own keys and therefore control of their own coin and that is rio where i think a lot of the value proposition of bitcoin risk lying is because you have the ability to be your own bank but unfortunately it can be a very early very complicated and tricky waters to navigate because there along with this power comes a lot of responsibility and a lot of ways that you can shoot yourself. i'm

a foot and that is why over the past decade many millions of bitcoin have been lost due to various mistakes that people that made we want to help people avoid all of those mistakes i will confess to myself having lost many bitcoin in mistakes in the early days especially when there were very few services available to help you protect your coins so i mean even for somebody like myself who's been around since it was a dollar and now it's over $11000.00 so you know it's it is a difficult learning curve and especially in this day and age where there is an ever escalating amount of moral hazard and intervention and rescues in 20082910 we have the rescue of the banking system the goldman sachs and j.p. morgans of the world that rescued from all their bad bets now the entire world is being bailed out people are sitting at home earning 75 percent of americans now earn more money sitting at home being bailed out from this pandemic system so you

know how does that like how have you seen the business have you seen this increase and decline because even goldman sachs now who is one of the recipients the walking embodiment of moral hazard they are saying that the dollar is toast that this is over because basically too many people are being bailed out from their bad decisions we have certainly seen an uptick in balance interest of what some people call new coiners basically a people who have not yet taken the plunge and actually got ownership of any question and what we found is that the service level and the user friendliness that we're providing at casa is that actually a very strong fit for people who know nothing about bitcoin but they want to get into it and want to immediately take that next step of holding it themselves because if they're getting into it right now then it's likely. they're doing so

because of the macro conditions. they want to avoid a lot of the counterparty risk of the systemic issues and in order to do that in order to really take a hold of that value proposition they need to be holding and managing their own keys that's where we can really lead and so to get people idea of the service i think people are probably familiar with the idea of wealthy people go into a swiss bank account or a swiss bank or a private bank and they go to the safe deposit boxes and the bank has a k. and you've got a k. and they have to open the bank deposit box simultaneously and then you have access to that box so it costs a it's a variation on this theme where you it's of all things service and you have multiple k.'s and their health and various locations but everything is completely and under control of the user or the person who's actually the owner of those coins and the method is really ingenious and uses both hard these new hardware while it's

cold storage wallets it is a kinds of security apparatus that gives a state of the art vaulting services for big corners you know my question is that more and more you hear about people talking about don't talk about to pick point that you have any bitcoin because you're going to get a 5 dollar ranch attack you know you're going to get attacked people going to come in your home are going to get kidnapped and but as services like casa become more prevalent that argument kind of the medicine is a little bit right because. it's not like the old days where people actually have paper wallets stuffed in a book somewhere on their bookshelf if they have multiple signature or multiple key access on a vaulting service which is like costs. i think me enter a new period in this industry where people kind of understand that individuals their debt they don't keep us the coins in their home anymore it's vault it in a very secure location. i think that's

a huge leap forward chamas and their thoughts there is a reason why banks exist there's a reason why a lot of people choose not to keep all of their cash or gold under their mattress at home it's because that does create a lot of risk for physical attack so we're currently in this era of bitcoin where a lot of people are keeping their keys to their digital gold literally under their mattress or you know in some drawer at home where they are susceptible to physical coercion and the amazing thing about this protocol is that we have not only the ability to create vault like solutions but we can go a step further we can do better than a bank vault because even a bank vault as a single point of failure or a catastrophe could potentially destroy that single physical location now we can distribute the keys and you can distribute them as far as wide as you want to pending on your threat assessment and we know we talked through with our clients

what their own tradeoffs are that they're willing to make but you know imagine an extreme level we have people who are worried about even nation state risk and they are distributing their keys across different international borders you know with countries that are not diplomatically friendly with each other so it's an amazing level of redundancy in resilience that we can create now in the digital form right it's like plan stuff as gold except as better. is like of all things service but actually better that's an evolution toward things getting better and better because people want hard money they want unconscious capable money and take the lane and environment of paper my being printed by the trillions and trillions every single day now i saw statistic that america printed in the last month more than they printed in 200 years and assessed unbelievable what's happening to the paper money of an economist magazine ran a story free money such 1000 where we're going with this absolutely i mean we do. i

don't need to throw out thousands of years of physical security best practice to says we should still make use of them but now we can build on top of it really step up or do i did here by the way the earlier some of your attack dogs in the background so i know you're not the $5.00 rent attack but let's go over this security aspect of bitcoin ok because you know again where where there's a shift in mindset where where exiting the fia system even goldman sachs the main beneficiary of the fia system is saying that this is over so it's not like it's going to be easy no giant shifts and in culture or monetary policy or in economics is ever a pleasant thing it's never easy so 2 if it's you know there is that learning curve that you're going to have to climb on to when you get to big coin and many americans are now buying pick point apparently so like what are like walk us through the process of you know how you the hardware wallet versus the multi-state

like how it works with your multi signature product the entire premise of what we designed it costs is to eliminate single points of failure and there are a variety of different levels of security that people can have and because when that is level 0 is you don't even have your own keys you know there with a trusted 3rd party custodian the next level after that is actually taking control of your keys and perhaps putting them in a software wallet on a phone or a laptop or whatever but then you've got to worry about a lot of things like hackers because it's online malware or other vulnerabilities can result in those keys getting taken by someone and then they take all of your money so the step after that is you want to get those keys off the internet and that's what these hardware devices are for we create this physical air gap so that no one can just reach over the internet and. grab your private keys but while that

protects you against a lot of digital attacks in areas you still have this single point of failure where if that device gets destroyed stops working if your backups which are additional complications you have to worry about if those become inaccessible then there's a question of like how do you recover from this emergency disaster scenario because if we're thinking about keeping potentially a large portion of your wealth in this setup you want there to be absolutely no way that you can lose it all so we take not one device but multiple devices and basically use them to constitute an entire logical wallet so that now instead of just having a single signature from a single device you have to go around and basically collect signatures from multiple devices it also means if any of these single devices stops working gets lost whatever it's fine it's not a catastrophe you can just go buy

a new device and actually reconstitute your setup basically through a device rotation within our software so it's all about more resilience more robustness right we're going to talk and let's amazon some more after the break and try to find the company at casa bit in your search and then the website is keys dot com we're going to be talking more about this right after the break.

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a group of killers rampage through parts of northern ireland that was coordinated loyalists attacks the technion the catholic population in belfast tens of thousands were forced to flee their homes and what was striking to put these attacks was that the are you see the police actually took part in the attacks so instead of preventing it they were active participants in the burning of full streets in belfast at the take more than a 100 innocent civilians women. as the review can seniors and we found out more i was surprised about the extent and its occurrence which the inclusion was involved in some of those cases the killers would later be named. i think it went to the very very top i think it the phones for all the water where all the taste you know on the go ahead.

welcome back to the cosmic part max and stacey talk about jamison alaap from the casa you're trying to find it in your search engine just use casa ca essay bitcoin concept going to find out all about the cigar the website ikey's dot casa so jamison of course this is a great service for people with the tools a wealth and they've got billions are any kind of that you're securing for fox but actually this is open to everybody is the minimum i count it the model is a monthly subscription and i think you actually get some 3 months to sign up and you can take the tires and test it out then there's various levels depending on you know how serious you want to get but this is really for everybody right there as though there is no average user of this this is really it could be used by anybody right it's all across the board even more recently we relaunched our free product

which is just a single key wallet on your phone just if people want to get in and check out the user interface now of course if you want higher security you want to get into a multisync setup and we've got plans as low as $10.00 a month there so if you can afford streaming video then surely you can afford a similar amount to secure your wealth but that is just at the technological level and we've got several higher tier solutions that are basically a lot more hands on if you want to have a dedicated client advisor if you're looking for more of like a private banking relationship then we've got you covered you know whatever level of security or whatever level of service you're interested in by the way our show does get dubbed into spanish transmits all across the latin american well many spanish speakers the casa of course is house in spanish it's a house for your keys they help you to manage. you know for your bitcoin holdings your hotaling so. you know is that. been actually to everybody in the world

including across latin america that we have no geographic limitations there could be potential language limitations depending on you know how well someone understands english this we have not yet internationalize but certainly on the road map and we have customers all over the world and as i mentioned before we even have customers who are distributing their excuse all over the world if that's the threat model 'd they're trying to sell you know there's a lot of names in the big space and we live in a meme economy and i often joke that tesla stock is must play a mean the valuation is 7 marla by i mean that it has by the actual production of cars in a we've seen some maims famous names in the big space like money printer go. there's also a meme out there called oh traffic boating accident right tragic boating accident name tells us the importance of privacy and security in a monetary sovereign world which can be achieved with it coing i take it

costs can you just comment on this jamieson the this is really a gap in the marketplace this need to secure one's wealth in a world of hackers and the folks out there are bad guys black hat hackers etc there's a lot of you know hacking going on out there and 2 in a pickle i community there are quite familiar with this and one of the strategies has been to just to clara think i'm lost in a boating accident right but i think we're all kind of moving beyond that now because because it's becoming very mainstream and it but you do have a possibility now for the 1st time to separate money from state and i think that's very it's the 1st time in history this is ever happened and the cost is a big part of that because you're not sovereign to any state or even a whole the customers. these are just providing

a service that allows for self sovereignty in a calm and yet we are very consciously trying to avoid becoming a regulated financial service and we do that by ensuring that we don't hold sufficient threshold of key is that we could ever block anyone from creating a transaction or create a transaction without someone's approval we do hold one emergency backup key there for our multisync users and we have a whole authentication process around that is very difficult to actually get use that's really meant to happen if they have screwed up their other keys and they need some help reconstituting their setup but this this whole meum of the boating accident i think it actually goes back to gold bugs and firearm and suzi us you know if the government might be coming for your gold or your guns then you know they can't prove you didn't lose it in a tragic boating x.

genius now you know again this article i started off with 15 percent of american adults they say now on some form of cryptocurrency and i just really really need to reiterate this and we've all been around for a long time in this space it is the complete opposite of the traditional financing system that we're used to the banking system where you get bailed out from everything everything is insured everything is bailed out you don't have to think at all so your service kind of allows some of that like you don't have like you plan on the human and never the belly of being stupid of of losing your a key easy or your seed phrase like people did that you just lose it your computer blows up and that's where you had all the back ups like so like. like elaborate more on that like how you remove human stupidity because you the individual out there who just bought big point for the 1st time are stupid we all are and you will

lose that stuff so how do you protect from the stupidity this is the main problem that we're trying to solve and fill in the skep in the market the max mentioned which is that before now if you want to solve custody you are generally on your own i mean there's plenty of software out there to choose from but then you have to learn how to use it you have to figure out how to think and for serially instinct about every possible thing that could go wrong and quite frankly most people they just they don't live in that type of mindset and it's very easy to overlook edge cases or just to assume oh that'll never happen to me and eventually you know these things happen to somebody so we build in resiliency so that you can screw up you can lose a key you can make a mistake and it's ok because it won't be your one and only chidi your money you'll have additional backups automatically out there and distributed and you can use

those to essentially repair whatever mistakes you have in your set up that's also another huge advantage to this you've been tweeting about this i think you came up with this concept of schroedinger's bitcoin which i get to in a 2nd i just want to remind folks also that you're on twitter and your handle on twitter is lop l o p p 8 s. also a fantastic resource for educational links in a cover really the whole history what's really quality links and you avoid all the the lesser folks out there that are on the fringe of this industry who don't do as good a job providing education and l o p p on twitter but schrodinger's bitcoin refers to the idea that you all of a calling you have big client by yourself freaked out about except about accessing that because they never go there use it or spend it because they're afraid because you might mess it up and lose it and that's a real fear people have. so when with a setup like costs actually once you get the hang of it and you feel secure you know actually you might actually expense

a big point every now and then not not that people don't much of that these days but you know if you want to go out buy a new car and spend your because you know you could do it right so it kind of adds that also is another dimension are a feature of this product jama so anything there's this issue of until you spend your because you can't be 100 percent sure that you can spend your because we've heard stories of people with paper wallets with hardware wallets with all types of really older generational storage that they have strewn all over the place that they never touch they never plug in they never upgrade because they're afraid that any of those actions might either destroy the key is or might result in them learning that they actually lost access the key is long ago and one of the really innovative things about the cost of software that we've set up is actually it has a feature we call health checks so you can actually go to any of your devices and request you to do a health checks through our app plug in your device and it actually creates

a cryptographic signature using your private keys that is really validating that you have access to them without even creating a transaction with out and doing anything public on the block seems just a private verification that that device is still functioning if we're entering this new post post nanny state war all where there's always a printing press to bail everything out you know jane with a lot here he has an amazing he's an amazing resource whether or not you sign up for a casa because he does this is his living this is what he does he examines every single possible threat you know factor into your life and he writes this honest blah you can read about that so as we enter this sort of. you know she'll pull. geo economic posts the out world like what are some of the biggest threat back there is that you see in terms of not only just like the fiat's system collapsing but in

general like what have you seen and your own observations on studies of of all these sort of issues i mean the biggest problem in cyber security is is the trade off to this amazing communication network that we've created the internet has free to so many people it has freed up so much economic potential it has freed up so much information education but as we've seen the flipside of that there's the misinformation there's the hacking there's the attacking and there is the the fact that information wants to be free which is great when the information is a positive thing that's educational but the flip side is that it works for information that you want to keep private and so whenever you're putting your own private information anywhere even if that's buying things with credit cards online if that's buying physical things that are getting shipped to you that you're giving

out your physical address to your information is getting shrewed all over the net to hundreds if not thousands of different trusted 3rd parties and it's only a matter of time before it gets leaked whether on purpose or on accident and that is one of the greatest challenges that i have been dealing with and that i think humanity in general will be dealing with is how do we ensure and maintain our privacy in the information age of course jamieson was covered in the new york times quite featured there you know because you are i guess what they call america swatted and that's part of our hopefully state such but you know you disappeared and you know i also myself i was subject to that hack one of the credit rating agencies so my my ass the security leaked online and you know yes that's. i mean is there any service yet they equivalent of a casa service to protect your online identity i would really like for there to be

a single service like that but unfortunately it really comes down to setting up a variety of different proxy is you know we if you read through my materials it's you know proxies for internet use proxies for physical mailbox use proxies for financial services it's unfortunately creates a lot of complexity in your life to sort of create legal shields technological shields even human shields to make it hard for people to find your actual information and i'm not particularly confident that it's going to get that much easier any time soon jamison law thanks so much for being the report thanks for having me all right well that's going to do it for this edition of hazard parts over selections of max and stacey going to catch us on twitter it's kaiser report and so next time i'll.

join me every thursday simon show and i'll be speaking to us from the world of sports i'm sure i'll see you then. lead.

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