based drugs the people who are chronic pain patient and believe that their prescription is working for them in the remedy to be said to. price at the. close of dependency and addiction to opiates the long term use that really isn't scientifically justified and i'll study actually suggest that. the long term effects may not just be the absence of benefit but actually that they may because along to. a low end welcome to cross top where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle as the culture war 'd rages on

a baited the billionaire class is only getting wealthier their wealth has skyrocketed 20 percent or so i've $184000000000.00 since the start of the pandemic slash law how will his back shape the coming recovery and is a permanent underclass the new normal. to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest richard wolffe in new york is a professor emeritus of economics at the university of massachusetts amherst as well as the author of the recent books understanding socialism and understanding marxism and in chicago or which he has a chief marketing strategist bubba trading all right gentleman rules in effect that means you can jump in while i was appreciate time let me go to you as you just heard in my introduction you know that we have an ongoing deep recession i think it . this morning the i.m.f.

came out with their global projections are a contraction of about 5 percent globally the us s. and do a whole much better the industrialized world is more or less in the same position at the same time as they say you know we have the wealthiest among us reaping in enormous revenues and profits here and the unemployment depending on who you want to look at it from 13 maybe 17 percent and that's not going to go away any time soon so what's really happening with the the economy or it's a recession deep recession for many and it's a goal the last time for some go ahead. i think when you look at the overall picture and i mean this is if you go back to the origination of the federal reserve i think this is kind of their plan all along this is part of the world's largest legalized. they can do has allowed the rich to get richer as times get tougher you know for years they've had access to this cash and capital to borrow it's only

recently that the average guy can actually brought some money to get in so they threw a fry and bad conditions and actually i've always built well under the toughest conditions because they have the access to capital that others don't they have the ways they get the money others don't so their businesses are allowed to thrive well everybody else is out of business you come by where i am in chicago and almost every small business is going to be out of business i had time to selling is over not just wipe out 5 an entire class of people because you allowed the wealthy the go out and thrive through these tough times getting access that they had all doing all the things that normal people don't get to do so the class divide will continue and it's mostly because we don't really allow the true free markets work anymore we allow the the upper echelon they have a better chance and better access going forward and i think that's one of the big problems that i see here well so many i mean it. and so many of the wealthy you

know look at socialism as something on foreign but i mean this is exactly would be how they how they have socialism for the very very rich and concierge service and you know the states not supposed to pick winners because that's against the markets but that's exactly what they're doing they're picking winners all of the time richard go ahead. yeah i think i agree that we are in a. zan state of capitalisms desperate effort to survive where perhaps i disagree a little bit is in looking at the government or the federal reserve or the treasury as somehow the place to start understanding what's going wrong i don't see it that way i see capitalism as a system that gets itself periodically into trouble lets remember the national bureau of economic research and many other institutions have traced through the rise and fall of capitalism's instability its business cycles if you like every

47 years we have a downturn that's the average and typically if it takes longer than 47 years which it did since the last crash in 2009 you pay for the longer upswing by either a longer or a sharper downswing we are now in a longer deeper downswing we would have been in any case the pandemic only makes it worse blaming the pandemic is a desperate effort to allay chasing the instability that dream that capitalism has always brought with it adding said that the federal reserve like this u.s. central bank that preceded it was an attempt to manage the very same contradictions of capitalism its business cycles its inequality and so nobody should be surprised that an institution brought in to offset the inequality and instability of

capitalism hasn't done a really very good job of it because it has been captured like so many other government activity used by those supposedly a subject to regulation it's called regulatory capture for a reason so yes i agree the federal reserve is making the problem worse. and the recent bombing of corporate ons in the secondary market is an extraordinary crutch for private capitalism provided by the government that should make any traditional conservative about free enterprise you know really roll over and is or earnest sleeping with you had to do so for me this is capitalism running out of ways to keep itself going. when time that's the point of the program jump in i got my biggest issue here is that they don't allow the free markets to work the federal reserve again what are they doing in the markets you know the whole chains in theory in my opinion is it stinks but i mean doesn't others are not necessary hugs

and butter bread and there's a better blend and i don't think you can always the stand against a recession i think you let them happen and they have they reverse up much faster as they are creating these longer more ridiculous cycles that now put us and really all they've really done is inflate capital to nothing so my dollars are worth so much less i mean you go back you know if i go back in 1905 my money i made probably 110th of what i make now but i love the heck of a lot better life i want to earn then that i earned today they keep telling me no inflation no that they have they keep the flame my dollars basically are his secondary that i carry in my pocket of cash and now what they've done is they said ok we've grown through enough now let's make you everybody go on the stock market because we're not give you any other alternative that the investor money so it's got to go in the stock market because you get the posit money there's nowhere to go some banks want to charge you but your money and there there is no other investment

yet they don't because we're not going to be looking at a very small segment of society meaning in the 19 seventies and eighties middle class people did invest in the stock market in my memory doing ok on my my parents you know but you have to i don't think that's that and even richard i don't think it's really the know him today i mean people. i mean look at how in after 2000 nato bombing iraq had a chance to save people from losing their homes but of course he didn't do it because he had he had he was in the service of best yes it interesting bailed out the banks but he wouldn't bail out middle america and we have the same thing happening all over again you know if the thing isn't with the there's a stock market richard for me it seems that it is a real moment i mean i mean how is it possible you have these record gains when how the country is staring into the in bits rich or well i think i think what you can see here is an analog to what we saw in the 1930 s. the last time we had

a crash of this magnitude there were many many pictures in those days of farmers pouring milk into the ground while other people were complaining that they could not get milk to feed their children their babies and the country marveled at the eps certainty of an economic system that could have those 2 things happening often a few miles from one another in a country like ours i think the and the allen g. today is we are watching 40 plus millions of people struggle with unemployment another 40000000 with the danger of unemployment coming plus the impact of their friends and relatives who are already on employed and then on the other hand a booming stock market let's remember 10 percent of americans own 85 percent of the stocks so we are looking at another one of these milk in the ground versus

desperate for milk families this is an impossible situation to sustain it teaches the mass of people in that kind of stark way that capitalism brings them these plagues and i'm not talking about a virus the plague of inequality and the plague. of instability of cyclical instability and you have to assure a later confront the reality which i think is coming that you must ask the question no matter how much trouble is attached to it is this the system we have to live under 10 we do better than the capitalist system without getting into the debate would a sure or a free market capitalism work better if never had in the abstract that's a as a huge hope in an image as thinking we would defend socialism or communism if only we had the purest form of money. but i mean i think that hang on i'm going to

conduct there are obviously differences there but i can just say and to richard in the end the elites don't have to worry about that ok because congress has already been bought ok they're never going to do anything like you know in time one of the thing one of the taboos that has been broken i think over the last few months is that there is the claim there isn't any money ok of course is plenty of money apparently this endless amounts of money ok i mean even bailing out defense contractors with and bailing out consultants they consult congress ok but there isn't enough to help with. payrolls ok i mean then that is this really drives me up the wall ok and i come from this from i'm a conservative ok but i think sometimes that emergency the government when it has the tools it should extend them if you're going to bail out the super rich then you can bail out main street and you can't tell me there isn't any money go ahead. invertible and in 2008 my opinion is heard

a lot of banks said going to make it go under absolutely again this is the problem that they continue to bail out and the problem when you're issuing new money because not only does a fetish and the money but the banks also wish no money when they use they have a tender one on a reserve. we know that they never had enough in reserve or the government on the one of their always because it's free money out of that well now they take the reserve limits off they're only making that capital available so that the wealthy they're not making it available so then dana white why because. mr obama or what some other president will come to their aid and bail him out again why should they be bailed out when the average guy on the street is never bailed out you or i would be in jail or bankruptcy court under the same circumstances versus big taking extra big bonuses because of that and this is where the problem again was back to the

entire system of our way of living and it goes back to the government who made all these rotten deals which is why everybody hates president trump because he's trying to a lemon a matter that is bad deals which is part of the reason is that what's going on in china and would you say in going out with that method you know because those are bad deals that were made loud and a top time you know fairness in all fairness you know you know the republican held senate is going on vacation it will come back when there's an emergency when there are 40000000 emergencies going on right now i mean this is that this is just a abdication of responsibility and everybody knows who say ok they've done there were you know gated community they got their security and they're all just fine ok i mean it's so once again it actually is a complete insult of the democratic process what do you need if you when you're in hell when you desperately need help for the sake of the country they go on vacation i can i'm going to jump in here or you go to

a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion when you say . we talked about problems that summer. long. hooper joey you know they have so being you. it's for. we've. just been. pretty good.

oh yeah it's. so. good you just be there to give the. men who come to magic life without fashion. style without things that might be seen as weakness in this masculine world but they still demonstrate incredible strength of spirit. as they choose. welcome back to cross up where all things are considered i'm hearing about your

mind we're discussing what kind of recovery can we expect. when richard let's go to you ok out i would like to explain one of the reasons why you see the big 8 year of the federal reserve and up the government bailing out the banks. let me preface it by explaining i have no interest in protecting or defending what the banks do but i want to point out that the problem is a bit more severe than some policy choice of the federal government about to go either way they're under enormous pressures and we have to face that or else we will misunderstand the situation had we let add to your federal reserve let the big banks go under back in 2008 in those last 4 months of that year when literally that

was on the table as an option they would have had the following consequence in a globalized economy which we are now and we were even more so that there is an immense competition among the world's $25.00 biggest banks not all of which are american many of them are european some are japanese now the chinese are injury and so on how did you let the american banks collapse all up the lehmann brothers failure you would have not thought that was your intent but you would have given them and warmest competitive advantage to naani you'll s. banks that are global and that were not at that time threatened with such an option in washington where the american big banks have a lot of influence you can be sure that argument was made over and

over again in the that you know you said the moral hazard or that's moral hazard ok that's blackmail are absolutely under the limits i'm sorry leveraging the governor who actually has a minister absolutely it is blackmail you're absolutely right but that doesn't mean that it isn't correct you have to understand for me it's a sign that capitalism not only disorganized is the world into a minority of rich and a mass of. sure and all the other criticisms but that it creates this kind of competition among a handful of monster banks that then handcuffs every society every government into having to be the handmaid or else presided over the decline of their own economy in yet another way. and i have one good reason jim i don't ever give the scars about how did they decide to choose women brothers vs bears aren't

they both are in because of trouble but it does i got the flush why is that. the connections between lehman and the policymakers were different than the connections between the other banks and they're the only policy maker of would do the right thing and thought of always the manipulative thing and continued to play when we wouldn't have these problems that we see now because you've got is guys that make decisions they make right here lation they do things that put certain banks better than others they put some out of business and that's a destroyer all those who are all regional community bankers ok but then i'm going to agree with both of you so let me see if i understand this all right and you know speak slowly so i can understand so we have an economy that exists to support these banks that's what the economy is about what about everybody else ok actually that's the problem we have an economy that is now so structured so pyramid dies with the

with the power at the top the wealth concentrated at the top that those people understand as all rich minorities have always understood in history before and during capitalism the more you concentrate wealth in the hands of a relatively small number in a society that has universal suffrage that small number understands that the problem for them is that the majority when the vote can't undo that way the effect so much capital is the economy that concentrate wealth at the top so they have to buy the political system otherwise they put their own achievements economically at risk and if that seems to dysfunctional for the mass of people i agree that's why i'm a critic of capitalism you know tom i mean one of the beings that i really worry so much about are we entering the a new normal of a permanent underclass is it seems to me that's where it's happening in some of the

stuff that i've read in the last few weeks is really quite fascinating was that you had. at the very very rich during this pandemics last lockdown they did consume less but the percentage less had a major impact on the people that are serving the very very rich so that i'm going to pull some numbers out of there if their consumption goes down 3 percent the impact is like 25 percent for people that are in that it's in the mode of servicing of the very very rich here and in this is just going to be perpetuated because you know the rich will be fine again but there's going to be a competition for who's going to be in the service class now in the. south can even drive down wages so the question is is the new normal that we have a permanent an underclass of people that will never really get ahead in time. and they gave economy and this think about all the millennia as if they just graduated

from high school graduate from university and they have this this wasteland and go ahead i don't agree i think that we will be able to come out of this as we have caught of many things in the past i think one of the biggest issues that we're looking at today versus other periods in history is that there's going to the industrial age where it was easy to train people and take people that had no education no way of knowing what their internet is moving into the tech age is a much different thing and are kids now are being taught and are brought up in the tech world so their ability to work jobs they get into these industries will be much easier like you i grew from 40 to 65 i'm 63 you take my group of people i've had to go retrain to get a job i couldn't get a job anywhere i maybe i could push carts and wal-mart but you get past the age and because we're moving out of all the things that help the middle class back then survive which is industrial production factory like it into

a tight unit you're not saying and i don't want to get the platform here you're not saying learn code are you. i'm not but i'll never learn code but again i'm not from that era i think i'm like they can turn the computer rot ok. under 5 minutes they have my camera right so i mean i got louder i mean richard i mean i i was in academia for a long time and one of the reasons why i left is that most of the things taught at the university are junk and don't prepare people for the future ok i mean it's a lot of you know it's virtue signaling and you feel good about yourself and everybody wants so she'll just listen and i guess and some of those people are employed right now all across the country ok and i find it really a foreign culture war i think it's so damaging i think we need to have a deeper meaningful conversation and i would probably agree with a lot of things but destroying that's not the way i find out of richard underclass a permanent underclass because the reason i'm saying it's not as a result of the pandemic lockdown it's just coming in to

a greater release ok richer yes my short answer to your important question is yes we are developing a manse underclass look 42000000 people unemployed is an invitation to every employer in america to approach his or her employees with the usual proposal you're going to have to take a pay cut a benefit cut you have to come in a half an hour earlier your lunch is now going to be 40 minutes instead of 16 and on and on and everyone knows why because they can because no employed person is going to take the risk of fighting back those demands when there are 40000000 fellow citizens out there desperate for the job even under the reduced conditions that are being offered so you have literally created now the opportunity for those at the top to take the next step and ratchet down the claimant the

wage that the consumption levels everything else they're fought. thereby producing an underclass and let leak make this topical i think that african-americans and others have been in that underclass for a long time they're now being joined by a whole new population of white people being put in there and part of what you show off in the protests ever since george floyd was still is the recognition by more and more white people that they are now part of what your question points to you know it's i think that's a fascinating point but then a time out in a minute a little bit off topic from our our focus here but then it seems to mean that that's just dividing what we're going to call the underclass here because they were calling everything you just like racism in meaning that is the state division of

the underclass itself which is easier to control by the way and i find what i find really a point is that there is energy and that and i think people have hope it's been focused laser focus on the wrong things social justice yes more economic opportunity yes ok i think they waste too much time on statues and i think that and many ways that in advance is the agenda of the super rich because let's face it the status quo is working great for them you have to look i could not agree more with that statement and this is one of the issues is is is the the underclass if you want to call them that now they need to get off their ass and go vote they need to do things as a taking things the same old way you know what one of the problems this country is we are lazy americans people don't go to the polls and now they vote out of it you know the time one of the things but one of the interesting things is you know if you look pretty clearly in the lot in the last 8 years here anyway and it would be

very clear anyone that is a populist left is gets crushed ok and. and populous conservatives they are disregarded is well ok you get the libertarians that end up running the g.o.p. 'd as the disastrous economic policies are might be and then you have chuck schumer and and nancy pelosi anyone their greatest enemy for those democrats are coming progressive they have their bend them for a progressive stopping the republicans because the democrats give trump everything he won everything with a challenge from the left that's what they hate most richard go ahead below 30 seconds. the basic argument for me is this. in germany just to give you that you say in germany unemployment went from 5 percent to 6 percent in the united states one from florida half percent to 1718 whatever the number see what we were able to throw the mass of working people white and black out of work and your up

conservative leaders tend not to let that because the political environment is organized in socialist parties labor unions just block it so it's even once they're left in america has organized so that it has comparable influence and tend not to like it by the likes of sure alosi trump or anybody else well i hope that gets marks number of them ok maybe out of all the coming out young men i want to thank my guests in new york and in kabul and make our viewers are watching us here are the see you next remember. a. journey has changed american lives but pharmaceutical companies have

a miraculous solution opioid based drugs for the people who are chronic pain patient and believe that their prescription is working for them in the remedy to be said to. price that they pay closer dependency and addiction to opiates to long term use that really isn't scientifically justified and our study actually suggest that. the long term effects may not just be the absence of benefit but actually that they may be causing long term.

mainstream media point the finger at russian authorities after the country's prominent opposition activist election about only falls into a coma russian doctors who initially treated him say no toxic agent has been detected in his blood and blood 12 o'clock we received results from 2 loves to better russian capital passed peacefully after 2 weeks of on rest in the country president bush expressed gratitude to the military and riot police the maintaining order.