media get on media and then they rise to the top and suddenly they're like wow these people are awesome and i would put and that's a nail in that camp. has changed american lives but pharmaceutical companies have a miraculous solution. based drugs to people who are chronic pain patients and believe that their prescription is working for them in the remedy be said to to the price at the. grocery dependency and addiction to opiates the long term use that really isn't scientifically justified and i'll study actually suggest that. the long term effects might not just be the absence of benefit but actually that they might because we want to.

hello and welcome to crossfire all things are considered i'm peter lavelle this spiral downward depending on who you believe in the media the civil unrest in america is the result of systematic racism this explains protests and rioting but it does it the commanding heights controlling the financial system media and the business world are loath to admit it it's the economy stupid for them race always trumps. to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest jason nichols in able to consider.

he is a professor of african-american studies and in new york we crossed to margaret kimberly she is the editor and senior columnist at the black gender report as well as the author of the book prejudicial black america and the presidents are right process rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate ok was 1st go to margaret here in my introduction i said that race always trumps class and if you look at mainstream media particularly the liberal media that is the message you get over and over and over again that worse remarkably we actually are still in the middle of a pandemic. tens of millions of people have lost their jobs we've seen acts of congress and the inaction of a president the people that have the most money are protected and now we have this horrific death of george lloyd which i think it was very i was very pleased that there was a universal virtually universal reaction to this this is this was an atrocity but that seems so long ago when we think of the of the riots and continued protests and

the actions of the president here but the messages are always on race and i think that's misguided because at the end of the day this is a class issue it always is a class of go ahead well you know in the end you as a race determine what class one is in we can't say there's no clean dividing line in this country and floyd's death is something that happens every day to a black person by the way every day to 3 people in this country an average of 3 people killed by the police and racism is a big part of that so this story begins with racism and racism that's practiced all the time mostly against black people but i think the reaction to it as you say there were both and was universal and i think the protests. obviously were sparked

by his killing but i think they are sustained in growing because of anger about many things in this country people are suffering people are struggling it is something that is almost for been to talk about it's not an issue in politics the corporate media doesn't say anything about it we already had an economy that was not doing as well as we were told when we speak of jobs growth it's low wage work it's getting work it's all it's not anything that it's not living wage were so people were already struggling and now more than 30000000 are unemployed as a result of the pandemic any shutdowns of the current teens so i think there are people who are angry about a lot and while the killing of this man was the spark and there would be

i'm sure a reaction across the country but it has sustained in small mentum because of the insecurity that people feel and the anger they have which is rarely. now in it because i mean as we spoke right before this recording is that you know i think all across the country obviously this was a catalyst there's no doubt about that ok. but you know that the phrase i can't breathe and i think that that that that goes across race because i think what the media does in the political classes they don't want to talk about the structural deficiencies of the economy why they are there are so many low paid jobs ok for example again this is direct this one to the democrats why are so many cities so badly brahmin rundown ok and taking responsibility for that is well so is jason i guess i'm going to throw to you what i said in the introduction about systematic racism that does that there's a. race always trump. class in american politics. well again you know

i would echo everything that m.r. who just said i think she said it very eloquently in terms of race and class intersecting of course there's no question that there are poor white people and that you have outliers a well to do black people but i would also add when we connected to the unrest that we seen i don't know a black man and i know poor black people i know working class in the middle class and i know very well to do black people and i don't know one african-american man who doesn't have a story about an encounter with the police so some of this actually does transcend class when i go out you know i generally i'm not wearing a shirt and tie and you know one would think i used that they you know i would age out of certain encounters with the police and you know in my early forty's and you see george ford was 46 walter scott was in his fifty's so again this is something

that for black men seems to transcend age it seems to transcend class so i think a lot of people you know when they saw george floyd they saw their fathers you know women you know washing say women i should say partners saw their partners their husbands in george floyd and we can't forget that these are things are happening to black women as well with briana taylor and you know many of the other cases of black women who have suffered at the hands of police so i think that while we can talk about the class impact of course there's been a serious impact more on working class communities and while we talk about george floyd we shouldn't necessarily think that these are the george floyd protests these george floyd was just the straw that broke the camel's back if you look at what the police were doing in york city they were going to. now during this pandemic and in

the village and in the wealthy white or areas there were handed out masks you know when you went you know north of $96.00 street into you know upper manhattan and it sort of rocks they were punching people in the face so i think a lot of people you know in arresting them so i think there was an explosion that was going to happen. and you know you can talk also you mention the democratic control of cities and i think that you know there is a valid point that you know some democrats have failed in their management of cities however and a lot of the cities mares are blacks it's me think it's be very transparent but then in some cases even the police chiefs are black but what i'm saying is a lot of this is systemic and when you have a system it doesn't necessarily white supremacy a systemic so you don't necessarily it's not about who's at the head of the system and in addition the states like of course in the baltimore area but the state is

run by republicans and with their funding it depend on the state when we vote in the senate races and we go to market right now and then if we get in if it's so literally black and white a lot about broken americans participate in the political process in this systematic racism i mean you know police chiefs and counselors and all kinds of things like this and then they need they need then it becomes very political because then you have i think in the state of washington you know it's basically it's ok to write it's ok to destroy property but not much and in a certain level i think all this kind of agree with that but if you destroying property of a person of color then started a business it's their whole life it's that you know that's it and then it goes right back to an economic issue go ahead yeah well this you know the political leadership though our own status and even the. black mayors the democrat here in

new york city mayor pro bill de blasio liberal mayor. but they often come back on the same pro status meant troops when something like this happened so over the weekend too there were 2 incidents of police vehicles driving into a crowd of protesters and a blasio he backtracked later but a furphy descended the police the center of your tax research backing everyone. he made statements in favor of them and the police hate him despite all his genuflecting that's another issue but most of these mayors are pro establishment and they work within the system that the larger system that as we just talked about doesn't work for anybody so they and the do i believe republicans and democrats that also is not always not such a clean dividing line to do as he has gotten in trouble for taking campaign money

from anybody from everybody so we see in new york politicians like our mayor bill de blasio who markets themselves as a liberal that was his whole campaign slogan a tale of 2 cities he was going to do better for working people in so forth he made a big deal about having an interracial family but when this demonstration started he turned into stems from an hour titian again very pro police even after police broke into a crowd 2 instances of that he defended them then he had to backtrack now there's a curfew. last night you had a curfew in new york you have to be inside by 888 pm or we can be arrested so a lot of these labels. democratic politicians are not any being that we can see in this really let let's talk about labels here jason what is the difference between.

prospects of protesting and rioting and looting because i see the liberal media really you know it's. basically peaceful protesting but then there's tons of footage of extreme violence and looting and destruction and me it seems to me that they're trying to invent language in a normal well in ways that basically everything's fine and everyone's just i'm doing what they're doing now you can't ever get responsibility had we're not i think that there we definitely need to draw a distinction between destruction of property and violence. the president named for example when his were proper marks him into violet alter cations and one where he said that this man had been beaten within an inch of his life. but neglects to say is that that man ran out into the middle of the street with a samurai sward you know and got beat up and you know while that's

a tragic encounter it's not this you know helpless person or this person just standing in front of their business he went out he engaged the protesters with a weapon and you know caught them you know the short end of the stick. i do think that there is a difference between you know an uprising which is whenever there is an oppressive authoritarian force and people have a political response to that whether it's organized or disorganized that is an uprising that's literally the definition of it runs when you look at what's happening for many people and that's not all of the people who are out there because there are some people who are doing this for their own purposes but the majority other people who are out there are i think even the ones who are engaging in destruction of property are carrying out an uprising of the. no not today we're

going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on race and class with our. if you go to the symphony orchestra's warming up and each musician is is tuning his

or her instrument so you hear this and now you're all these sounds of noise about it but it's it's a constant a it's disorganized and then the the band the orchestra plays and you get up music so what the brain does and what the maker 2 mules do is organize or orchestrate to use one collapses. welcome back to cross the where all things are considered to mind you were discussing race and class. mother let me go back to you i mean we were talking about in the 1st part of the program the difference between protesting in writing and there are so many different motives people may have i mean i don't think people were thinking and i

hope people weren't you mr floyd when they were stealing night he shoots ok i hope that's not the case but i have i have to agree with jason when he's talking about the uprising but then again that means something to different people is well ok and when i think one of the saddest things that poisoned our politics is it all busts and i think the media does this it was we have preconceived ideas about other people about white where they're from way they look and this is kind of neat jerk reaction and you know what it is it's fear on all sides and i think that is what's really sad here and i will not back away that this is a class issue because there is so much pressure on the middle class the middle class is been decimated and what's really sad and i think this is actually proven is that since the civil rights movement so many people of color were able to move into the middle class and have that great to be. the dream that we all have about middle class america because it was a middle class country it's no longer

a middle class country underclass and a very very small a small group of very powerful rich people that have congress in their pocket do you agree or disagree but let's absolutely true living wage work has been decimated in this country as something that black people depended upon to be able to buy homes and send their kids to college all of those markers that we think of as being middle class which is a kind of amorphous. term that it makes you feel good president and makes you feel you that's your cause. but it's the people at the top who you mentioned who are responsible for this destruction the finance capitalists decided that we didn't need to make anything in america anymore. and so these manufacturing jobs disappeared their whole portions of this country and i'm in western europe by birth and. yes and every time i visit family in the midwest in ohio and other states it

looks worse and worse and worse. and so now we have but it's never acknowledged it's never talked about politicians don't mention it because they rely on people who give them money they don't care a corporate media they don't care they are rather elite institutions they don't have any connections with working people they don't cover working people they need to have a labor beat anymore. so we have these people who are treated as if they don't exist and i also think that it's not uncommon actually for protest to begin over some very bright his issue people have well founded righteous indignation but it sets off a lot of emotions there people who. you know the not the heads for lack of a better term who will take. vantage just because people are out into the streets

and inspires positive a lot mostly positive i would say a lot of negative too but i think we have to remember this all started with great injustice and everyone should be working to stop this system that puts $2000000.00 people in jail george fluid was arrested because of a $20.00 bill that was allegedly counterfeit that puts people in jail and americans love to talk about human rights everywhere else in the world but you can't have 2000000 people in jail and talk about human rights abuses everywhere else so i think there has to be a discussion about all of this all of these things that we talk about when people are needs are acknowledged i think. and when people institutions like the police are kept in check i think so much of what we've been discussing can be you know

jason money looting abhorrence and were to any and doing to macy's fine they got their insurance they're all covered ok it's the small businesses and it's the mom and pops at it and are breaking for me here but you know when people bring up the issue of looting i think about a different kind of looting ok i think about the looting of the middle class for 40 years ok and i really find it really rich when it comes to media figures and hollywood types of ok when they find on when they're basically thoughts in my opinion that they don't add any ok it's all hurt you signally but you know the media it and i go back to it is it you know if they if it's race race race race everything's races but you know what is it it hurts everyone when you have when you hollow out the middle class again the middle class in my mind is a place for all and that's why. we find our great strength ok and when you hollow

that out it hurts everyone here and again the media covers this looting that's going on and we in this stimulus bailout just another huge transfer well upwards and now we have we basically have a civil war or a revolution against the working people from the top down you agree with that or now so i agree with with many elements of what you said. first of all i do agree with something you said earlier and that is that middle class is kind of this you know and i maybe as margaret said it is more focused and may not even exist i think it was the playwright august wilson who said if you can't quit your job today and live at the same standard of living for 2 years then your core and you know i know me you know i it you know i'm live in a nice house in a nice neighborhood but if i would have who was my my employment today you know

next month i'm scrambling you know to me and 3 months you know probably out of my year so i think that there is. you know this this idea that there's this middle class and 80 percent of americans or 85 percent i believe of americans identify as middle class now you want to tell us there are a lot of poor people because we demonize poverty itself that you know that they're like i'm poor you know there was. middle class there was a joke by. the great comedian eddie murphy where he talked about everybody was poor neighborhood but if you can afford to get that ice cream you know to me and you know the other kids your got ice cream your mom's all welfare you know when they all lived in the same community you know i mean they are had pretty much the same family structure you know everybody was poor but because you couldn't afford ice cream that day. you know all of a sudden you were somehow worse you know jason i lived in

a small community outside of denver colorado and it was lily white but the same issue of club the same exact may apply right there margaret and mary ok in again you know losing your job poverty it's a shameful element of american culture here but you know you know if you're told you can't work you can't go to work you can't murder living for yourself and your family then then again i criticize the structural deficiencies of the economy if you're telling people you can't go to work then you better you have to compensate them ok but no that's not what the $1200.00 check or whatever you know that's going to pay off debt that's not going to put food on the table here up in the absence of that any interest in the in the concerns of the conditions of the middle class and working people i find abhorrence and there's nothing out there to change it because we're all focused on race race breaks go ahead mark you're like well there are if.

you're lucky if you know and if you black people suffer the most because you're less likely to have family wealth to have assets we're more likely to spend upon a salary and if anything happens to that sound we are in very very deep trouble and the fact that they do not believe the political class the people who go through the motions of opposing each other that they decided $1200.00 was the maximum for any anyone in this country regardless of circumstance it tells you where we stand the minimum wage hasn't gone up for years and the democrats the 1st 2 years obama was in office and democrats controlled everything they didn't do anything about it either so we are living this dystopian nightmare where we are told that our problems don't exist they're not. they're not talked about. people campaign for office pretending that they care. about us and then they wonder

why only half the public bother to show up tomorrow and the state of california in the state of california at local politicians are almost 0 universally elected on health care for single payer and when they get the power i mean it's the people's republic of california for god's sake and they still won't do it they still did all they did to do it and then when they get power oh we don't have the money and that is the myth that has been exploded by this endemic and this crisis there's tons of money when you want something ok but if you're going to give people a step up across the board the middle class they just deny jason last 30 seconds go to you i'm sorry go well the only thing that i want to say is that it is adding to what marc rich has stated and that is that there is a difference between being american middle class and being black american middle class i think that those are 2 very different constructions for example in boston

massachusetts the media household income or the median household net worth is $247000.00 for african-americans in that same area it's $8.00 so again you see the stark difference where people are or worse you know what they have in their wallet versus people who have homes you know homeownership 40 percent for african-americans were at a red or a 50 year low right now 40 percent for african-american 70 percent for a reason are almost out of time and i am not going to contest anything you said but you know i'm really tired of rich white liberals saying well at least i'm not racist ok and then that this cleans their conscience addressing the structural you can i. problems of the united states and that's all the time we have here margaret

and i want to thank jason for being on our program what i think our viewers are watching us here are remember. the oprah show here they have so being used. for. free. i just can't do a pretty good. yes. so it is. just there to give the orders for. these other stories of men who can't imagine life without fashion without a sense of style without things that might be seen as weakness in this masculine world but they still demonstrate incredible strength of spirit to live as they

choose. to call them talents of a group of years of use. for . you know we look at the solutions we look take a deep dive into the issues they've been chatting about all year now today we're going to be talking with more also known as n l w of the breakdown of caste and following him on twitter for a long time plus into his cock asked the other great thing about this all new universe is that people who might not get on media get on and then they rise to the top and suddenly they're like wow these people are awesome and i was and i failed in that camp.

in the troubled 19 seventies a group of killers rampage street thugs of northern ireland that was coordinated loyalists atomics particular population tens of were forced to flee their homes and what was striking to put these attacks was a fear you see the police actually took part in the attacks so instead of preventing they were active participants in the burning of the streets in belfast i think more than a 100 innocent civilians with. the review can seniors and we found out more i was surprised about the extent and its occurrence which the collusion was involved in some of those cases. would lead to be named. and i think it went to do very very top i think. it was where. you. give the go ahead.

protests turned violent as demonstrators defy a curfew in the u.s. city of does come after police there allegedly paralyze a black man after shooting him in the back while i run the u.k. the black lives matter movement also reappears in the headlines there is the b.b.c. temporarily scraps in the richford to colonial era songs we put up at about. the front we're an unequal society and a deeply racialized society you know it's one of the places in the black and brown be deleted.