we'll. aleksey now by nate was poisoned with a substance from the no bitch a broom he's the victim for crime and someone trying to shut him up the german government declares a russian opposition figure alexina volley was poisoned with a no bit of nerve agent but the kremlin says it has yet to receive the details of berlin to find a. french satirical magazine charlie hebdo reprints its controversial muhammad cartoons written knighting debate that's as the terror trial gets underway for 14 suspected associates 5 years after the attack in paris. and thousands of americans say that they are desperate for an alternative to the 2 main the writers of vying for washington's top job as divisions in the country. because your headlines at

this hour my colleague bill harvey he'll be here in an hour's time with another what's your headlines this is art international but that would. be. a lou and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm putin about how is the issue of china playing out in the american election cycle and by the trade themselves as being tough on beijing maybe they are at least rhetorically but reality tells a very different story and it's bipartisan the commanding heights of industry and finance have courted china for decades and have the riches to show for it is this china.

to discuss this and more i'm joy. my guest sarah shoe in knoxville she is a huge visiting scholar at fudan university and in beijing we cross the jungle she is a professor at the university of international business and economics are across not because in effect that means you can jump and we don't want and i was. going to syria and not still i'm sorry what role is china playing in the american election because i said in my introduction both biden trump point they like to if they show these apps ok that ad versus ad very anti china obviously but i don't see it really making much of an impact on the electorate because there are so many other issues there's the pen demick there is an economic turndown and all the sudden it's all china's fault somehow believe me i understand what that feels like living in russia but it's there yeah i think that you know that's certainly something that both

candidates illiberal have afterward for us because china has been such a big part of president trump's whole you know policy agenda and so i think that's something that is really important on the list some experts think that it's you know one of the top one or 2 or 3 issues 'd i don't know that it has a certainly agree with that but it's something that they have to address but i think you know both candidates are talking about china in a negative way blaney things on china certainly the coronavirus pandemic which you mentioned you know president trappist stated that it's led to a mass worldwide killing and said that china covered it out and biden hasn't done much better to be honest about it and you know both candidates have talked about being tough on china we've definitely seen president trump's track record in terms of the trade war we've heard yet it biden talk about the fact that he

wished prohibit u.s. companies from abetting repression when it won't at supporting the child. the surveillance states also talking about imposing economic sanctions on beijing and so these are this is something that definitely is in the air although right now i think the credit virus issue is on the top of the west's could have been here i mean yeah i think as i said i consider my introduction and it's a lot of written rhetoric because the captains of industry in finance have done extremely well in their interactions with china over the last few decades i don't think they want to see that change one iota so i'm on the one hand i think it's very rhetorical. and in the end it incites passions and emotions but i don't see the c.e.o.'s and presidents of companies doing very much about. putting

into play the rhetoric of either candidate and i think it's real it's actually quite hollow though it does seem designed on ice some people. well the problem is that the companies the culprit the pollock remark that has been benefiting from you know disco ain't a trade or asians ships as well as investment ratios china don't get any sympathy from present trump and his folks i think this entire campaign in 2016 going to a white house has been built on this theory that china has to be steering the jobs market companies go moving to china together we just shops and he's appealing to is political base that i've been pretty much you know perceived as the victims of that the move but. this is actually you know fundamentally as a comic some work but unfortunately you know his entire political pop 8 though is based on death 'd theory so unfortunately you know compromise test benefit the

message he found the child the relationships the trade between the 2 countries amount to a $700000000000.00 company marcus operation here in china the reach somewhere between $400.00 to $500000000000.00 of revenue. as a lot of money for america but the thing is that. is political but it doesn't benefit or not from dad and he had to have any sympathy yet you did tax these people this corporate leaders of being you know operating again in china so so his entire mandate is to quit in my opinion of corporate america out of china and his entire you know can carry on towers against china is based on a theory that you know should go to congress. but united states and china so ok i don't know if this actually benefits united states from economic one of you but unfortunately that's what he believes and you know we can debate about that after

x. off this trade. there's no empirical evidence showing up in you just a hook as a trump strategy doesn't matter to me is it is not a hallmark of 4 years about. elected. you know that's that's his sources coming from unfortunately he wanted to have china being a champion issue in 2020 an actual problem is that today you know china has entire intractable operation is less than one day sofa 4 in fashion united states that this white you know the china issue is inevitably connected to this mismanagement and total fiasco in content of house and house this so this is a strong on one side he has to clean up the childish you i'm just on the other side it reminds of american people of the shah contrast between china and united states

respect to the congo policy issue but don't give the american media that much credit and the american public knows virtually nothing about china at the end of the day here sir i'm going to put you on the spot here can you name can you give me what a one job one shot that china stole from america if you think of one job because i know a lot of jobs that were taken out of america by americans and brought to china to give to chinese workers i think i hear this china stole just didn't steal one job it's the captains of industry and finance that moved their operations is that china's all or is it their fault but it's certainly an american carrier and i think that's that's really where the jeffrey is wrong here go ahead yeah i mean i would agree that. the rhetoric is incorrect it was you know politicians and also the captains of industry as you say who are in charge of moving jobs

especially manufacturing jobs out of america manage to china and here the not mention mexico into all these other countries in the name of free trade and while i believe that free trade is a good thing because it helps us to buy lots of cheap stuff you know and raise our standard of living our low salaries can help to a more eroding salaries can help to to buy more stuff as a result of that but government has not put into place appropriate protections for american low income or middle income workers and you know that's really the big concern but notwithstanding all of that you know there really are some issues with china that i think that you know they're trying to administration has not really guys in share it's not about china causing coronavirus or stealing jobs or whatever or having a trade surplus with us none of that makes sense but it is true that

china has and continues to steal intellectual property from the u.s. that is a major issue here is also that china continues to be to rampa its aggression towards hong kong that's another piece of this long qantas part of china if i'm not mistaken correct it is but it was supposed to be governed separately one country 2 systems yeah i really didn't want to go into the hong kong issue but if you want to so what should the u.s. do i mean i mean what do you know beijing is watching what's going on in portland you know it's a good time to say something about that to china to punish america for what's going on in oregon i mean it's just i mean double standard. huge double standard errors it is i mean i don't think they you know i don't subscribe to the view that the u.s. has to be the policemen of the world i think that is too much of a. you know

a loaded role though for it and for us to take on but i do think you know that the u.s. needs to respond and that the west somehow needs to respond to this type of promotion of authoritarian as a violation of human rights those are basic things that i think there should be some response year now why should the response be i don't know that it should be economic sanctions per se i think that's fairly me it seems to be watching after a year of these protests in hong kong as if these are the leaders of these groups that actually ended up with a net loss for all the people of hong kong ok so i think it was kind of fool's errand and now you have people like mike come pale talking about human rights are you kidding me the secretary of state is talking about human rights i mean gitmo is still open ok so i don't see any moral standing on the side of the united

states to talk about china's human rights record at all john you want to jump in on that go ahead well let me 1st address this issue not needing to knock your property as. so ross mansion i think this is 1st of all i think this is a. gross country again a campaign coming from white house coming on the strongest racial i mean let's talk about you know cyber theft of intellectual property now there are many going to have. access from russia i have from the united states these are 1st of all i don't think in trying to try not to get a comment 2nd china has the largest population we have. people so natural republic the largest population of. cyberspace you know you shipment this to a sort of space concert. the whole of the nation approach to syria market it's not 2 properties that's just crazy i mean give me

a warning example of one technological achievement as a result of you know americans 4 not to properties you know that scan any advantage if you didn't have a lot of talk about this in the past in the media the last 2 years or so but if you don't show all of this this this profit and i'll just acquisitions you get down to the details find one example that actually substantiated one i had earlier and i have i went through a lot of my does sessions we don't report is 200 page report house i'm just talking about we're going to cut your properties after that kind of thing is i mean these are examples 1st of all i think you're 2nd now more than 20 years ago did not have a clear there's a kind of a middle ground on this is well is it is my understanding and i'm happy to be corrected if i'm wrong here but a lot of the joint ventures in american companies foreign companies have in china

it entailed technology transfers as part of the deal do you business there so i mean if you signed the dotted line you can't say you didn't know go ahead. yeah i mean i would just say you know what i was saying is that they're actually in 7 events that there is state sponsored hacking of american firms and european firms and also government entities and you know i'm actually pretty pro choice that i you know stealing intellectual property is is not a good way to compete on the world stage and it doesn't create a good feeling or a sense of fair competition. most recently their work you heard it on here i have to jump in here we have to go to a hard break and after that are grateful to your discussion on china's role in the american elections our.

trade and investment to become magic spells to come get you cannot make development . most people think about trade they think about goods and services being exchanged between countries and the investor a chapter of a trade agreement is about something very different but won't when investment leads to toxic manufacturing that destroys sacred sites or brooms the environment. that means local communities that are being poisoned if they object if they do anything that the company feels is interrupting their profits they can basically now a multinational zits taking on the whole nation philip morris is trying to use i.s.t.'s to stop oracle from implementing new tobacco regulations aimed at cutting domestic smoking rates

a french company sued egypt because egypt resists minimum wage and democratic choice of a trump corporate law joint. as we try to find one of the to. welcome to cross up here all these are considered on peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing china's role in the u.s. election. oh it was go back to it now it's all share a right before we went to the break you try to make a point go right ahead you're still most recently there were 2 half years who were indicted by the u.s. lease shall you and don charger and they were accused of hacking not only you know for their own benefit but also hacking not be how. the government's and their

actual individuals from the governments one particular individual. of the ministry of security it was identified as working with these hackers so the. narrative about these hackers is no and the types of attacks that they carried out is also known and they weren't stealing intellectual property from biotechnology firms for. medical device engineering firms and from the military you know of course trying to is not alone but china is responsible for 40 percent of global hacks well he was in their interest i think we need to be fair the way it's reported by the u.s. government in the media is that only countries that america doesn't like fax them ok hacking is going on all of the time it's a very lucrative illegal profession for a lot of people and some people do it for governments no doubt about it but to

single china only it is doing that it's like you know russia hacked the the american election well there were certainly individuals that were if your password was password you probably. ok mr podesta ok already we're hearing so sorry i did not ready to date that's a lot. less are you going to claim that i never claimed that the cia the n.s.a. i'm not engaged in any of these activities i mean this is the biggest fairy tale if you could tell me that right everybody does that so you know this is no surprise to me and also many refer to one part of the history that in our states was engaged a massive. amount of foreign national as far as i was one that was an 80 hunter and that sort of that was that you couldn't 900 why united states engage in that you know activities to steal. attacks now technologies frank ring of benjamin franklin in the embassador to paris was the. response network of stealing

textile technologies. a castle a name gun. that was a wonderful time in history that you had states was pretty much you know simply just china right now be the united states so i'm going to this is something that have been done in the us i think you know about it you know. the government and the shock of tell activities like this but i think china is trying to do this i mean i think as part of the trade agreement. the 1st phase of the train agreement is something regarding that aspect that there is much on us and he's from the state governments a perspective is not going to you know a sponsor as well as you know trying to tell the activities going up let us be trying to do these things for commercial benefit so these are issues that can be addressed not to. try to get it illegally.

i mean it is going to be very very broadly it and in one of the things that really misunderstood about china at least from an american point of view is that it's very difficult for. americans in the american political elites to see china as an equal peer because the united states hasn't had one for 6 for so very long. and you know if we could go back to people talking about the new a new cold war with china well that's i think that's true ok but you know during the original cold war in the united states versus the soviet union is it the soviet union had very specific high technologies in the military but not other places china has almost everything that you could imagine to be an american peer industry wealth technology actually has a unified people america is very very divided here as well that's one of the reasons why it's hard for americans the tape china as a peer seriously would you agree with. me i don't know

yeah i think certainly people of your china as. head it or at least a competitor. there are worse but so is you know germany for example but i think you know people see china as an increasing aggressor that is that's the major issue i think between the u.s. and china and you know these intellectual property issues have been going on for many years i should also point out that you know under obama his agreement with the president and it because of their diplomatic strong diplomatic relations trying to stop attacking us or several years until trump was an office and so you know these are theories there are some things that can be worked out diplomatically but at the same time we see china's increasing aggression and in the south china sea. you know you also see where american interest is there in the

south china sea because if i'm not mistaken it's called the south china sea because it's near china not to put that money in california it might be my problem there. i think the idea is that you know that the u.s. needs to or feels the need to and i'm not saying that you know this is necessarily right but the u.s. feels the need to ante what it views as an increasingly aggressive china and even under obama you know secretary has made it inside hillary clinton trying to find aggression here what do you mean by. well i don't know gentry's china invaded recently. well we're talking about is increasing military activity certainly that's a side of aggression. in the other there. you noted statements from the pacific islands merican lake i mean it don't you think it was maybe an opinion on the head john. i wouldn't say problem well.

you can offer regrets aggression i mean 1 i don't know if you've heard about them the dean principal michael ledeen used to work for the pentagon is a very famous saying abbot 10 years ago every 10 years also you know states need to pick up some crap in a new country just sort of has to walk to me we were to meet we took to thomas street in a war that we mean business i mean if you look back you history it's not was every 10 years ago or so it's like you know once every 3 or 4 years a whole you know law states pick up some crappy little country it's the war against the war to show to understand that you're there to. tell us also to just to say that you know china is a gross if i think it's it's makes a mockery of the word aggression you know and i suppose you know the south china sea i want to make a point that you know. the trump ministration just a few days ago. secretary of state on the boat made east statement

vox that he chants united states traditional condition on the issue of honesty used to be mutual not just taking a side and it's also championing a. verdict a major bill that united states doesn't own a cell ok. you know i think this is behind us rhetorics hollow bunch of progressives indeed it was china and i think the fact that the chinese can be the punching back of the united states is purely purely because of the russian politics you. understates has a lot of i'm not at all also i think very important is that the american response to to the pandemic has been is nothing less than a disaster ok there's comparisons you can have all around the world we don't have to use chinese the comparison if you don't want you can use europe is a very good example and i think that's projecting and i think it's kind of sad and

blaming china is a good that you're not to explain why the reason single payer health care like everywhere else in the world ok i think that's unfair yes sarah i don't want to see a new cold war i don't want to see a conflict here is it just because we're in the silly season of the american presidential election or is there is it is this real and if you could give maybe beijing's perspective is the united states going to ratchet up the the rhetoric and me even more in the face of this rivalry go ahead well i think you know if we have a continue traffic ministration we will and i definitely don't support. his rhetoric and i'm just you know saying that it's out there and stating that there actually are some things that need to be worked out not through a trade war or sanctions or things like that but diplomatically we really need to improve diplomatic relations with china doesn't make sense to go to war or go to

a cold war with china you know we've seen for many decades that it's we've developed the u.s. has developed close ties to try to end its benefit both countries so you know it honestly it doesn't really make any kind of sense economically for the 2 countries share be at odds to this extends with each other. and the world is big enough for both countries i wish i wish that the american political elite could understand that you know let me go back years or something i mean again i'm watching the media all the time and you know up until i would think maybe up until february it was china. you know since there is a communist china in it's the it's the communist party's pandemic i mean this goes over and over again and upon the mistaken it not as a communist country but nobody even up to this be it now because it has that political order i mean it is it's really intentionally done to. to

sway passions here and i think it doesn't really do serve any positive purpose. then as there was a campaign guideline that was developed by you comes on company for the. republican. committee how do you come to any basic talking about how to make the use of the chinese. to be a campaign issue but the problem is that you know as i said as an trungpa seeing his losing this campaign he's trying. all of these. swing states. michigan he's losing big as a been a history big even in florida he's actually trying to put it back in those that is based on numbers in the white house now i am really concerned and he will do something drastic traumatic in the rest of this administration days you see today the news that is already on us house in office use them to quote you know i think

it's not entirely father wrote that he would do something drastic where people been talking about the silenced regime has been experiencing a free for all it's actually more than a free for all i think he's trying to stir up something really great. something you really mean. that it's. going to get well to what he was able to do and it's not about information it's isn't just have to be true because there's plenty of you know the pentagon looks at china and then sees a lot of money it's a good business you know a real enemy i mean we need to spend a lot more money as the country out of the country is poor and there's no sign that there's no assistance for the middle class and i think that's what really should be the debate here i want to thank my guests not still and in beijing and i want to thank our viewers for watching as here are you see you next time remember.

when i was told some seemed wrong. but old quotes just don't hold. any new world belief yet to shape out disdainfully comes to advocate and in gains from an equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart when she's to look for common ground. trade and investment to become magic spells to conjure economic development. most people think about trade they think about goods and services being exchanged between countries and the investment chopped or a trade agreement is about something very different but won't when investment leads

to toxic manufacturing that destroys sacred sites all ruins the environment. that means that if local communities that are being poisoned if they object if they do anything that the company feels is interrupting their profits they can be sued multinationals are taking on the whole nation's philip morris is trying to use i.s.t.'s to stop oregon by implementing new tobacco regulations aimed at cutting domestic smoking rates a french company sued egypt because egypt raise its minimum wage democratic choice over trump corporate law joining us as we try to find don't want to.