living standards a high level of peaceful law and order a vast capability to address him federal g. environmental issues officially who knows says louise we have all that will lead to jacqueline says unemployment over covered as a killer really says a good interview allowing comments and opinions to be expressed and yvonne writing from the comfort of a kenyan house appreciates the global issues tackled in the show john farben says they speak about america don't deserve to be leaders of the free world they gave up that right years ago in english says america's imploding trump was the beginning of the end for them and patricia says not just america the whole world will never be the same again this is just the beginning side they have a strong takes exactly the opposite point if she sticks up for the american press that don't belong say the 1st street from persuade every politician looks like incompetent idiots he created 3000000 jobs in june in the middle of the pandemic

well thanks hello it's always good to get a country point of view there but it does mean a doctor part it can conny of exeter medical school has over 20 years experience in infectious disease control he worked as a consultant in communicable disease control for local authorities and public health england agency which is now being blamed by u.k. government ministers for the failure of the test he is in conversation with alex. dr park canada if huge experience and infectious disease control can you tell me why is it that in the united kingdom the country which 180 years ago pioneer public health legislation they're all for whom this is a finding so difficult to get a grip on coronavirus i think this is a example of how low we have sunk with regards to both our national health service and our investment in public out i mean i am one of those persons who has been in public health for all what 20 years and gradually slowly drip by drip we have.

made redundant experts we have this invested in it we sent most of our week out to local authorities and then the local authorities reduce the numbers further with that and in the creation from protection agency which was a very good idea to public health england we have diluted our strength and energies and this is the price we are paying today it is very very limited to build very unfortunate but let's look at the english experience 1st ministers seem to be blaming public health england they say they're going to get scrap the organization that is that a fair criticism no i disagree i disagree and in the middle of a pandemic to cancel the very organization that the hot secular state for health is in charge of asks me to ask the question if probably cull england isn't fit for purpose the head of the public health england eventually is the 2nd state for

health and social care do so you know those are the questions to ask also furthermore this is the wary painful bit when the kind of mix starkey and of course we could not do the test and trace because we were under-resourced and we didn't have the capability to do it but we went ahead and invested as time worrying amount in testing and contact raising. by products of lies if that same money had been allocated to public health in berlin and told. do it get on with it create create a system nation light i think really been done and could have been done well for some reason since march public health england was by us you're right in saying that the testing was slow to get started there was slow in getting the capability but it's plenty of testing in the u.k. going or no relative to other countries why is there still a problem when there's

a capability of testing it is that the tracing in the of the of the system that's failing or. they sprayed us across all facets unfortunately and it is so painful to note because the united kingdom is an advanced country it has a lot of clever people in place and considering we have the armament we have the clever people we have the logistics we have everything in price we go ahead and in went a centralized system from the beginning when actually what we could out and we can do we should be doing is enabling local testing local laboratories energized who said that the testing and we take that task and we do it locally with process it locally and we communicate the results locally come about it we set up a new organ testing regime and contact tracing will as well and they can communicate easily seamlessly with our g.p.s.

and patients and others now who are even the test results invention when they're conducted are not communicated to the people that matter and we had the systems so why not use the systems instead of create one in the middle of a pandemic so how important is local knowledge and local delivery in running an effect of testim tracing regime absolutely crucial it won't work otherwise and i have been banging on about this fall ever since it was created you'll need central assistance central support but locally deliver all of them are networked with each other and they not alive the line and they work on these things every day on other illnesses and other outbreaks and then suddenly for the biggest are now make that we've seen they're not incrementally in lock it's ridiculous for office that this is a condition of puts that there's no cure at the present moment but with what can

the supply that in the past to be diseases footsore were more clear. for and we had public health prevention methods how could the whole body of knowledge and understanding be lost it is not lost it's just that we're not using it properly we've got experts locally nationally and international experts in our country and for whatever reason which is hard to understand and explain there has been a narrow focus from the experts advising the government the experts advising the government if you look at their make up a lot of them world market lawyers and scientists and social scientists but very few very very few if any well hands on outbreak specialists i didn't see the name of anyone who has actually hands on done outbreak of any sons locally out of national interest no one they will all claim we have been involved

in outbreaks my question is how many of you have actually led on a large equal i operate a large salmonella outbreak or any of that in the last few years now well in the past this is like tuberculosis or smallpox i was that dumb then with the liver the cat sort of things like that that i was tested tracing doesn't these great communicable diseases of the past so with respect to the are you better close is we still do the tried and trusted. identify the patient get to know the patient well get underneath the skin of the patient as a cult my students you've got to understand your patient having understood your patient you plan on earth from who their contacts are where their grain who do this socialize wait where do they work who do they go out with their social network in other words you're almost be friending the patient and then you send out your

army of colleague. to pull in all those contacts of that case and you can do that rightly if you're not allowed to land and the same applies which we used to do when smallpox was here we used to test and release to trace and when people floundering and there was something very complicated it i remember myself calling my senior colleagues in colander lance and this is a little bit complicated can we have a discussion and somehow we let go of all that expertise that we were always high. we're told that a new up might be the magic bullet the support how do you rate these these ups the one that was try that nail a white a new one which is also being tried that they were white and they'll swear how do you rate them as a tool and could they save the day. not on their own no way they are

a additional aid to contact tracing they are not on their own. magic bullet that we are led to believe so you really need that local import as well as that application if and when it works now with respect to the application again i remember saying it clearly that a centralized application will have a lot of people will not adhere to wanting that application because you're collecting too much personal data centrally and google plus apple for the 1st time ever joined out to create a decentralized application and i again and back will why don't we just use something that world experts have developed why go around europe in your own when you can use what arlen has got they've got a very good up with asian also running why are we insisting on making our own dr pratt county a would you say actually possible to contain this virus while others might weigh

from and pubs. open the many people are arguing that these 2 things are incompatible you can't in the 100 contain the virus and not the other hand provide a setting where a virus more clearly fry than be a heightened infectious that you are not compatible it's as simple as that we are killing ourselves by saying on the one hand open up the cows the restaurants the businesses and life as normal and on the other hand we've got the wires inside you lation if we had adopted the new zealand style approach of we wish to eliminate it hard and fast and early as soon as it appeared we would be in a better position similarly we've had a smaller countries tiny tiny tiny country countries like the bear islands so they also have a 0 coleridge policy which is we don't want to live with any case. and new zealand adopted the same way so in answer to your question the 2 are not compatible what we

have to do is aim for we wish to eliminate it from our in the present and if you are going to eliminate it there will be some hard things to do and once you've done it you have to contain it but if you carry on with you carry on with business as normal open up the pods and continue with interactions with pilot human beings then i'm afraid it is not possible to also say we are in control of it. join us after the break we'll continue this discussion of thought the pipe of the best they had to look in detail at these international examples. the leftist senseo lost in the november election and they're trying to cause

trouble they're stirring the pot and they're trying to get a little bit of a civil war going but they can blame trump for that and one way to do that is by saying it's ok to live the small businesses and that is. really common men just her social unrest looting and violence so that's what the left is up to now. the world is driven by shaped by one person. thinks. we dare to ask.

throughout its history just how just with the self-proclaimed islamic state terrorist group have recruited up 230000 following us from all over the world to find for the. sounds of russian citizens left their country to join the terrorists often bringing wives and children with them. what he's going to do. i didn't post on you because you see me as and you could move. all in you to the moon hundreds of children and widows were held captive disappeared. back in russia those children families.

welcome back i exist in conversation with dr bot it can kanya about the problems being expedience with operating an effective test interesting system on qubits across the u.k. . dr klein honey let's look at the detail of these international examples of some countries been able to deliver some countries of struggle. the countries that took early decisive actions have done a great job let's start with south korea so when things happening in china and other cases started to appear in south korea they unleashed and arming our huge army of testers and contact traces and they had the compliance of population they had the will of the government and they had the armaments ready the testers and the

conduct raises and they might if you look at the graph it is amazing how they just managed to flatten it quickly another example poor countries where man did similar things and the group in the control new zealand is a marvelous example of where they took early decisive actions in saying we will import 0 coli in our country so they drew a net around the country and they they suppressed the case numbers howard and fast and early and they got a result the united kingdom game up the truth is we gave up sometime in march who say containment is not not on the possible and now in september we are still trying to contain it so we gave up really and even germany did a wonderful job in europe they had a good policy of testing. contact tracing and that is still there well

monitoring the our patient at home and when they found that their patients well should we say showing more signs of illness it took them out to hospital early and as a result of taking their patients go hospital early they had a much lower tax rate of course they didn't make the huge mistake of also introducing infections in the residential homes which really mean i'm getting a dog to pry county or final question well let's just say i have the power of to appoint you as the new site to state for health but i'd be strongly tempted to do so but let's say. that you were the new broom which was coming and to to sweep clean what would be your your 4 c. is a fraction to get this virus and infection under control i would bring together all my local networks we already have existing experts locally and i would want to

invest in my new public how england rather than create new systems thought about how they are of actual universe to thank you so much for joining me on the alexander. thank you. so problem still a bind across the u.k. and the contrast is often drawn with more effective systems of disease control in asia however much closer to home but it is an example of a tiny county which has tackled the community transmission of covert 1000 not once but twice alex is joined by 2 people instrumental in the success story christina half a same piece and dennis christiane's then head of department and researcher at the feet of the spirit and veterinary authority christina hospice and dr christensen welcome to the examine show. thank you very much. christina when we last spoke in the program the fearless had stablished a virus free status you got

a hold of the few cases you harden your modest to clamp down but since then the been some clusters of remarriages the in the fade away alan's hope you dealt of these. yes the parents were mown the 1st nations in the world to become $1003.00 and we didn't have a positive case for more than 3 months actually unfortunately here in august we had a new outbreak and it's has been quite a big outbreak but we have handled it by using the tool that we also used back in march with mass test think tracing and 1000 people so at the moment it seems like we have the situation under control but the christiane son of the man who suggested to the families a thought is what let's use the sama labatt it is to give us the testing capacity to to test a substantial part of a population what are you confident the facility would what of this new virus this

be out be out in the courts that was 'd established to get us or go bad that's maybe. 5 straight to track to viruses and athletic sam and metaphor i would quote authority it doesn't matter if the some cops screw up some calls from the jumps off or if calls from patrol person here at the college he is captured it's pretty much the same in our hands you know he came up to have some change to tweet if it's some some virus or human minds. stuff he can switch between those different assets so that's like using the not so resources of the of the fatalist to deploy to protect the human population that would give you a capacity to test the a huge proportion of the the growth of the small feelies population at the moment we have you have to be our insecurity about the product company but. actually we

can do up to 45 mation. before our. very eyes. so and so between a high proportion of the various nations it's also part of the success that we have . to combat this this outbreak so so refined efficiency it's not over 'd yet because there is there are positives out there that they had to drop down very fast job the last couple of base there must be still half was getting people tested is only one puff of the story you've then got to contain the the renewed clusters what's the family's approach been to to tracing and to and to isolation of the potential contacts. yes you're right alex testing is one thing but tracing is just as important if you want to stop an ape break so all

the people who have tested positive. have you can say interviews with our health authorities and together they have found out where have they been the last couple of days which people could they have been contact with and then the tories have a contact at all the people who have been in contact with people who tested positive and put them into 2 weeks quarantine. because even though people may test negative after a few days they may test positive so tracing people were up in the concept of people who were infected and putting them into 2 weeks pointing is of litle and i could add that the last couple of days most of the new cases have been people that already were in quarantine so this just tells us how important this not just to test but also to trace and to put people into quarantine if you really want to start on the outbreak of what if 11 the 1st of the half of the infection got back

into the field it was after a limited in their late part of the year how did these clusters the a mad was the tumors or more of the fishing community of 100 to get back into the islands. we knew that when we chose to be open our borders back in mid june that it was a risk but we chose to test all travelers who have arrived in the pheromones and that her separate checked does until august it seems that one traveler has tested negative at the airport but still has been positive after a couple of days and unfortunately that person has been able to infect others looking at the fearless experience of the sheer what does a small country like the fearless have to teach the large of countries who have struggled much much more with the virus and knew how what are your experience could be applied to to the larger countries of the world. i think that you have to act

locally and you have to give at the local communities and the 3rd tools too to find a solution start fit to those areas. and for example in scotland it will be very good if the islands that have their strategies open it comes to acting on if there is a new outbreak but also when it comes to reopening the islands because things can be so very different from for example edinburgh to to the shetland islands what is the right thing to do and for us it's spent why go to have our own strategy and have our own tools also or oratory says our skill staff and to be able to ask because if we were to. after in the same way as for example denmark or if we had to send our all our testing material to

a brought it would take days before we got the results and we would not be able to contain the wires like we had in so so it's important that you can have a strategy that fits locally definitely so the message from the fields was at the local it to confront a global danger krystyna half was dr christiane some thank you so much for joining me on the alex almond show. thank you. at least in the western world the united kingdom is the home of public health legislation to meet the challenges of infectious disease in overcrowded cities of the industrial revolution the 1st public health legislation was passed in 840 s. to tackle the deadly conditions of cholera yellow fever and tuberculosis these early campaign is realized the prevention business a city where there was no cure and the public health was passed by the liberal government of lord john russell where there was a cure for various deadly conditions like smallpox vaccination was made compulsory

in 851 without hesitation public health 2nd to none and with still largely integrated tell services it is astonishing that the u.k. has not better prepared to meet the admittedly tough challenges of calling a virus on the control of the cool with disease scotland wales and ireland to fared somewhat better than england but not by much the reality is all of the home nations have struggled the tiny pharaoh's give us a clue as to why if it exists public health systems have always been delivered look leigh and that key community knowledge is the secret to stamping out the embers of any clusters. if the fatal system had been run from copenhagen denmark it would not to be an effective move to centralize ation of public health organization across the u.k. thus may not have helped in the development of a rapper to spawn's to corona virus an infectious disease control local information and the speed of response which comes with it is more valuable than that provided

by any out however useful a functioning online tool would be perhaps in public health the key to success is to local to face a global challenge. from alex myself and although the show is good 5 stacey and we hope to see you all again next.

she stressed to. the british. national strike you she. didn't know what you. can or must do to your current man or shan't. want to go to the show to promote your bonus for should be. dismissed. for this interview or you believe that it's a studio actually the person to vote for should step up and speak.

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy. let it be an arms race is often very dramatic development only mostly i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical of time to sit down and talk. during the vietnam war u.s. forces are also neighboring laos there was a secret war. in for years the american people did not know. how much it is officially mouth heavily bombed country per capita. human history millions of unexploded bombs still in danger lives in this small agricultural country. and i remember. even today kids in laos full victims of bombs dropped decades ago is the us making amends for the tragedy in laos won't help to the people need

in the 2. it will land on my. mother's under make notes you know borders just lying to nationalities. you. know so much. we don't look like seeing the whole world needs to be. judged as commentary crisis with this system things. we can do better we should be. everyone is contributing your own way but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever the challenge is grateful to response has been much so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are in it together.

moscow's lambastes burn then for failing to provide evidence for germany's claim russian opposition figure looks in the valley was poisoned with a chemical nerve agent. what we knew but that if there was any data we would work with there is no data on their own demons are now going to megaphone diplomacy. so the u.s. says that it won't take part in an international co-operative effort to develop a covert vaccine because it's led by the world health organization. elsewhere washington is impose sanctions on senior officials of the international criminal court after it started probing alleged u.s. war atrocities.