and so what lessons can be learned from my tiny island right all that later in the show but 1st alex with your tweets and e-mails on last week's show on the end of the american. well lots and lots of comments this week on no wade davis an interview and that was about his article in the rolling stone magazine article that went viral for the 1st couple of girls from watching from cambodia says thanks for the great show wolf thanks for writing and remove them jeff wait says the way davis article i read the article is spot on and leasehold an interesting comment about the end of the american which was the argument that we davis was putting forward she says as regards the u.s.c. it's logical to assume that china would have taken to its historical dominance soon without but the genocide of the guards no democracy persecution of christians massive environmental humanitarian disasters over the years expansionism all good

keeping on stonily huge population and rising living standards a high level of peace for law and order a vast capability to address health energy environmental issues officially who knows says louise we have all that will lead to jacqueline says unemployment over covered as a killer really says a good interview allowing comments and opinions to be expressed and yvonne writing from the comfort of a kenyan house appreciates the global issues tackled in the show john farben says they speak about america don't deserve to be leaders of the free world they gave up that right years ago in english says america's imploding trump was the beginning of the end for them and patricia says not just america the whole world will never be the same again this is just the beginning. they have a strong takes exactly the opposite point if she sticks up for the american press that don't belong say the 1st street trump has made every politician look like a comp. it is he created 3000000 jobs in june in the middle of the pandemic her

it's always good to get a country point of view but it does mean a doctor. of exeter medical school has over 20 years experience in infectious disease control he works as a consultant in communicable disease control flow close ortiz and public health england agency which is now being blamed by u.k. government ministers for the failure of the test entries he is in conversation with alex. if huge experience and infectious disease control please tell me why is it that in the united kingdom the country which 180 years ago pioneered public health legislation for all for whom this is a finding so difficult to get a grip on coronavirus i think this is a example of how low we have sunk with regards to both our national health service and our investment in public out i mean i am one of those persons who has been in

public health for all what 20 years and gradually slowly drip by drip we have. made redundant experts we have this invested in it we sent most of probably out to local authorities and then the local authorities released the numbers further with that and in the creation from protection agency which was a very good idea to public health england we have diluted our strength and energies and this is the price we are paying today it is very very elemental very unfortunate but let's look at the english experience 1st ministers seem to be blaming public health england they say they're going to get scrap the organization that is that a fair criticism no i disagree i disagree and in the middle of a pandemic to cancel the very organization that the hot secular state for health is in charge of asks me to ask the question if public hell england isn't fit for purpose the head of the public health england eventually is the 2nd state for

health and social care do so you know those are the questions to ask also furthermore this is the wary painful bit when the kind of mix starkey and of course we could not do the test and trace because we were under-resourced and we didn't have the capability to do it but we went ahead and rested as time worrying amount in testing and contact raising. by products of lies if that same money had been allocated to public health in berlin and told. do it get on with it create create a system nation lite i think really been done and could have been done well for some reason since march public health england was by us you're right in saying that the testing was slow to get started there was slow in getting the capability but it's plenty of testing in the u.k. going or no relative to other countries so why is there still

a problem when there's a capability of testing it is that the tracing in the of the of the system that's failing or. there's failures across all facets unfortunately and this so painful to note because the united kingdom is an advanced country it has a lot of clever people in place and considering we have the armament we have the colored people we have the logistics we have everything in price we go ahead and in went a centralized system from the beginning when actually what we could out and we can do we should be doing is enabling local testing local laboratories energized to set at the testing and we take that task and we do it locally with process it locally and we communicate the results locally because we're already set up to communicate these results here is one ridiculous item about it we set up a new organ testing regime and contact tracing one as well and they can communicate

easily seamlessly with our g.p.s. and patients and others now who are in the test results invention when they're conducted are not communicated to the people that matter and we had the systems so why not use the systems instead of create one in the middle of a pandemic so how important is local knowledge and local delivery and running an effect of testim tracing regime absolutely crucial it won't work otherwise and i have been banging on about this fall ever since it was created you'll need some true assistance central support but locally deliver all of them are networked with each other and they not alive the line and they work on these things every day on other illnesses and other outbreaks and then suddenly for the biggest are now

make that we've seen they're not incrementally mock it's ridiculous for office that this is a condition of puts that there's no cure at the present form. but we thought can this is like that in the past to be diseases foot's there were no cure for and we had public health prevention methods how could the whole body of knowledge and understanding be lost it is not lost it's just that we're not using it properly we've got experts locally nationally and international experts in our country and for whatever reason which is hard to understand and explain there has been a narrow focus from the experts advising the government the experts advising the government if you look at their make up a lot of their world market lawyers and scientists social scientists but very few very very few if any well hands on outbreak specialists i didn't see in the name of anyone who has actually hands on the outbreak of any suns

locally out of national interest no one they will all claim we have been involved in outbreaks my question is how many of you have actually led on a large equal i operate a large salmonella outbreak or any of that in the last few years now well in the past this is like tuberculosis or smallpox a how was that done there were the live they kept sort of things like that that i was tested tracing done in these great communicable diseases of the past. so with respect to our cuba close it is we still do the tried and trusted. identify the patient get to know the patient well get underneath the skin of the patient as a calm my students you've got to understand your patient having understood your patient you then on earth from who their contacts are we had with

a grin who do this socialize wait where do they work who do they go out with their social network in other words your must be friending the patient and then you send out your army of colleagues to pull in all those contacts of that case and you can do that regularly if you're not allowed to land and the same applies which we used to do when smallpox was here we used to test and release to trace and when people floundering and there was something very complicated it i remember myself calling my senior colleagues in colander lance and this is a little bit complicated can we have a discussion and somehow we'll let go of all that expertise that we were always high. we're told that a new up might be the magic bullet the support how do you rate these these ups the one that was try that a new one which is also being tried that white and they'll swear how do you rate

them as a tool and could they save the day. not on their own no way they are a additional aid to contact tracing they are not on their own. magic bullet that we are led to believe so you really need that locally as well as that application if and when it works now with respect to the application again i remember saying it clearly that a centralized application will have a lot of people will not adhere to wanting that application because you're collecting too much personal data centrally and google plus apple for the 1st time ever joined out to create a decentralized application and i again and back will why don't we just use something that world explosive have developed why go around europe in your own when you can use what arlen has got they've got

a very good up with nation also running why are we insisting on making our own dr pratt county a would you say actually possible to contain this virus while others might weigh from and pubs. open the many people are arguing that these 2 things are incompatible you can't in the 100 contain the virus and not the other hand provide a setting where a virus more clearly fry than be a heightened infectious the 2 are not compatible it's as simple as that we are killing ourselves by saying on the one hand open up the pubs and restaurants the businesses and life as normal and on the other hand we've got the wires inside you lation if we had adopted the new zealand style approach of we live in a hard and fast and early as soon as it appeared we would be in a better position similarly we've had a smaller countries tiny tiny tiny country countries like the bear islands so they also have

a 0 coleridge policy which is we don't want to live with any case. and new zealand the same way so in answer to your question the 2 are not compatible what we can do is aim for we wish to eliminate it from britain and if you're going to eliminate it there will be some hard things to do once you're done you have to contain it but if you carry on carry on with business as normal open up the pubs and continue with interactions with public human beings then i'm afraid it is not possible to also say we are in control. join us after the break continue this discussion of thought the plight of the universe they have a look in detail at these international examples.

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy. let it be an arms race. spearing dramatic development the only personally i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful fareed critical time time to sit down and talk. during the vietnam war u.s. forces also bombed to neighboring laos there was a secret war. and for years the american people did not know. until our cell might is officially the most heavily bombed country per capita all human history millions of unexploded bombs still in danger lives in this small agricultural country.

even today kids in laos full victims of bombs dropped decades ago. is the u.s. making amends for that tragedy and. help to the people need in that little land on . seemed wrong but. just don't all. get to shape out. active. and engaged because betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. to welcome back our eggs in conversation with dr bodett been kanya about the

problems being experienced with operating an effective test interesting system on corporate across the u.k. dr frank i mean let's look at detail at these international examples and why have some countries been able to deliver some countries of struggle. the countries that took early decisive actions have done a great job let's start with south korea so when things happen in china and the cases started to appear in south korea they unleashed and arming our huge army of testers and contact traces and they had the compliance of occupation they had the will of the government and they had the armaments ready i.e. the testis anaconda traces and they might if you look at the graph it is amazing how they just managed to flatten it quickly another example poor countries where.

similar things and the brute things a little drop new zealand is a marvelous example of where it took early decisive actions in saying we will import 0 co it in our country so they drew a net around the country and they they've suppressed the case numbers howard and fast and early and they got a result the united kingdom game up the truth is we gave up sometime in march to say containment has is now not on the possible and now in september we are still trying to contain it so we gave up really and even germany did a wonderful job in europe they had a good policy of testing. contact tracing and that is still there well monitoring the our patient at home and when they found that their patients well should we say showing more signs of illness completely mout to hospital only and

as a result of taking their patients to hospital early they had a much lower that right of course they didn't make the huge mistake of also introducing infections into now seen in residential homes which we in the united kingdom a doctor prachanda our final question well let's just say i have the power to appoint you as the new site to state for health but i'd be strongly tempted to do so but let's say. that you were the new broom which was coming and to to sweep clean what would be your your 4 c. is a fraction to get this virus and infection under control i would bring together all my local networks we already have existing experts locally and i would want to invest in my new public how england rather than create new systems thought about how they are of actual universe to thank you so much for joining me on the alexander show thank you so problem still a bind across the u.k.

and the contrast is often drawn with more effective systems of disease control in asia however much closer to home but it is an example of a tiny county which has tackled the community transmission of covert 1000 not once but twice alex is joined by 2 people instrumental in the success story christina half a same piece and dennis christiane said head of department and researcher at the feet of the spirit and veterinary authority. christina hospice and dr christensen welcome to the examine show. thank you very much. when we last spoke in the program the fearless had a stablished a virus free status you've got a hold of the few cases you had the new monies to plant them but since ringback then the been some plus those of reimagines the in the fade away alan's huff you dealt with these yes the parents were mown the 1st nations in the world to become

1003 and we didn't have a positive case for more than 3 months actually unfortunately here in august we had a new outbreak and it's has been quite a big outbreak but we have handled it by using the 2 that we also used back in march with mass test think tracing and 1000 people so at the moment it seems like we have the situation under control but to christiane's son of the man who suggested to the feelies authorities let's use the sama labatt it is to give us the testing capacity to test a substantial part of our population what are you confident the facility would what of this new virus it's beyond the outer aura that was 'd established to get us or go bad that's maybe. 5 to trap to viruses and athletics

out on and that far out of oratory it doesn't matter if some cops spot some calls from the jumps off or if calls from patrol person here at the college east actually it's pretty much the straight in our hands you know mccain we have some change to tweak some some virus or if human minds. we can switch between those different assets so that's like using the not so resources of the of the fatalist to deploy to protect the human population that would give you a capacity to test the a huge proportion. if the the growth of the small families population at the moment we have you have to be on our institute about the private company to win this thing and i actually can do up to 45 percent of the nation or baby if you were 24 already ok so so. so so be current high

proportion of the various nations are also part of the success that they have. equal to to combat this this outbreak so so refined efficiency it's not over yet because there are positives out there that they had dropped out very fast job the last couple of base there must be still half was getting people test is only one puff of the story if then built to contain the renewed clusters what's the family's approach being 2 to tracing and to and to isolation of the potential contacts. yes you're right alex testing is one thing but tracing is just as important if you want to stop an 8 break so all the people who have tested positive . have you can say interviews with our health authorities and together they have found out where have they been the last couple of days which

people could they have been contact with and then the tories have a contact at all the people who have been in contact with people who tested positive and put them into 2 weeks quarantine. because even though people may test negative after a few days they may test positive so tracing people who are been in contact with people who are infected and putting them into 2 weeks' pointing is of litle and i could add that the last couple of days most of the new cases have been people that already were in quarantine so this just tells us how important of this not just to test but also to trace and to put people into quarantine if you really want to start on the outbreak and what if 11 the 1st of a half of the infection got back into the field it was are after a limited in their late part of the year how did these clusters we're mad was the tuners or more of the fishing community or how hunted to get back into the islands

. we knew that when we chose to be open our borders back in mid june that it was a risk but we chose to test all travelers who had arrived in the pheromones and that her separate checked does until august it seems that one traveler has tested negative at the airport but still has been positive after a couple of days and unfortunately that person has been able to infect others looking at the fearless experience of the sheer what does a small country like the fearless have to teach a large of countries who have struggled much much more with the virus and knew how what were your experience could be applied to to the larger countries of the world . i think that you have to act locally and you have to give at the local communities and the 3rd tools too to find a solution step fit to those areas. and for example and scotland

would be very good if the islands that have their strategies open it comes to acting on if there is a new outbreak but also when it comes to reopening the islands because things can be so very different from for example edinburgh to it to the shetland islands what is the right thing to do and for us it's spent why go to have our own strategy and have our own tools also or oratory are skilled staff and to be able to ask because if we were to. after in the same way as for example denmark or if we had to send our all our testing material to a brought it would take days before we got the results and we would not be able to contain the virus like we had in the so so it's important that you can have a strategy that fits locally definitely so the message from the fair was as local

it to confront a global danger krystyna half was thought to christiane some thank you so much for joining me on the alec salmon show. thank you. at least in the western world the united kingdom is the school of public health legislation to meet the challenges of infectious disease in overcrowded cities of the industrial revolution the 1st public health legislation was passed in 840 s. to tackle the deadly conditions of cholera yellow fever and tuberculosis these early campaigners realised the prevention business a city where there was no cure and the public health act was passed by the liberal government of lord john russell where there was a cure for various deadly conditions like smallpox vaccination was made compulsory in 851 without hesitation public health 2nd to none and with still largely integrated tell services it is astonishing that the u.k. has not better prepared to meet the admittedly tough challenges of calling

a virus on the control of the corporate disease scotland wales and ireland to fear it somewhat better than england but not by much the reality is all of the home nations have struggled their tiny pharaoh's give us a clue as to why a fetish public health systems have always been delivered look leigh and that key community knowledge is the secret to stamping out the embers of any clusters if the fatal system had been run from copenhagen denmark it would not to be an effective move to centralize ation of public health organization across the u.k. that may not have helped in the development of a rapid response to corona virus in infectious disease control local information and the speed of response which comes with it is more valuable than that provided by any out however useful a functioning online tool would be perhaps in public health the key to success is to local to face a global challenge. from alex myself and all that the show is good find stacy

and we hope to see you all again next. she stressed to make sure that the.

question was to you she didn't taste the paste conditions. which. i'm not what you. can understand. or to share. what. should be. said to mr. spirit or does he seem to be arguable that it's a studio surely it must be revoked or should still be in spain. anyone who is a real careful as to say well we made it possible to have the best work and growth in the world. yes but it hasn't been sure. and the answer is no the

rich get richer the workers state. and the poor no one is taking care of characters and reserves criticism. basically on the inherent in equity of the sharing of the game. the leftist senseo lost in november election and they're trying to cause trouble they're stirring the pot and they're trying to get a little bit of a civil war going but they can blame trump for that and one way to do that is by saying it's ok to live to small businesses and that is. really common men to stir social unrest looting and violence.

thank. the russian opposition figure was targeted with a chemical nerve agent. if there was any. there is no deal there are only statements of nannying to megaphone diplomacy. u.s. backed out of the international effort to develop a covert $1000.00 vaccine washington says it does not want to be constrained by the world health organization. and the billions of phone calls are caught up in a mega data harvesting by the u.s. national security agency. rules that snooping into private records was illegal.