i'm not sure accounting welcome back to a brand new season of going underground still swimming against the current of the mainstream amid a global pandemic all but civil war in the united states and the impending threat of climate extinction i'm joined now from tucson arizona by one of the most cited intellectuals on earth the father of modern linguistics american president you know i'm trying to escape not thanks so much frank coming back on the show so what is the global green new deal that's the new book climate crisis and the global green new deal and why is it to you the most important political plan in all of human history we're now facing a number of crises serious ones one crisis is the threat of climate environmental catastrophe we must move to net 0 emissions

within a few decades. would go all the green new deal is to provide the means to do that the other problem which is arising with great hurry right now is the collapse of the economy as a result of the endemic no it is you know this is a very different kind of crisis from the financial crisis this time there is no escape through just consumers or oring money in the. stock market that's not going to do it he said we have to create a new economy which offers good job or constructive for. developing the times of interest structures social environmental structure physical structure that we need the kind of goods that we need to live

a decent life and that's the other half of the grid new deal it is essential for not only for survival but for health issues you mention corona virus how does coronavirus alter your analysis given that corona virus threatens corporate profits interstate lee it does not yet. sure retton most corporate profits many corporations are making money hand over 'd fist of that high tech for example whether it was one day in which jiffies us. $13000000000.00 or they're going to hedge funds private equity funds old doing because the treasurer is poor and money into the economy in a way which largely benefits them if you take a look at the economy take the united states but it's world will the stock market

is breaking records poverty is breaking records they're totally dissociated and that's. a sign of the eat disease of the economy which then only be overcome by the development of the policies. outlined in the details of the green new deal proposals what do you make of the continuing corporate reframing of the climate crisis it's up to ordinary people to recycle to buy organic food it's up to them rather than the need for systemic change naturally those who benefit from existing institutions do duck under see the changed not which grows out of fear the toilet area dictatorship and their problems the dictator isn't going to say overthrow me well that's

a knowledge as to what you're describing the core of the problem is the. mantra of . production for private profit not for need and the you should the fossil fuels will be have to be phasing the mel and moving towards total sustainable energy no new emissions within a few decades we've talked to scientists about how deforestation that to coronavirus tell me about how in the book you talk about even strategies like red it's called ari d d it's funded by corporations to stop deforestation but in your book here say that it actually facilitates deforestation encourages it. helps corporate farmers at the expense of others why is it time and time again these strategies sponsored by

governments and the world bank in that case seem to achieve the opposite effect i mean they may in the back of their minds decent intentions but they're constrained by the nature of institutional or to develop programs which will not arm the our full institution. well. in the corporate sector but will in fact i'm sure to their needs the result is policies which whatever their intentions are often negative in their say we have to address the problems directly without. giving priority to the needs of the destructive institutions there's no time to overcome a limited we have to accommodate to their existence one of the timescale of institutional change is out of the range of time skill for dealing with the

environment for instance so we have to work within the basic institutional structure that exists but within it we can find a very clear definite ofcs there outline the my colleague poems your visions of the book and so on the till which with a small percentage of the economy suffice to will suffice to deal with these twin programs has your book actually has further than the road to hell being paved by good intentions because who want to shock people as you call it deliberately malicious a stake was just happening right in front of our eyes. so the last few days with strong core group backing the truck of ministration has been eliminating

or regulations which protect the population and the environment from release of methane or snakes other talks of ways to the benefit of the corporate system not only to focus fuel companies it banks finance them benefits them. it's merely harms the environment and harms the american people and then clear if that's not malice what is there maybe somebody in the boardroom who says there would be nights to deal with the environment and it would be nice to bill but when it comes to making specific decisions to maximize profit while market share all those good intentions faded to black and the book the deal is clear that full

employment is key bob calling quote calm ox saying capitalism require as an employment to diminish the bargaining power of work because whereas this green deal seems to provide for full employment. remember the we do not live in a capitalist society of the kind that marx was discussing marx was discussing quite properly an abstract form of capitalism which were innocent of its essential nature so every existence is watermill a form of state capitalism where state action has been undertaken under popular pressure to mitigate the destructive forces of pure capitalism so yes sure capitalism would require as mark says

a reserve army. but state capitalism and overcome the floor and move to guarantee employment and instead a decent employment there for one doesn't do with the problems of capitalism in fact we were moving pretty close to normal full employment. under 'd obama's. tepid response to the financial crisis continue to troll it was not the kind of full employment that any decent human being wants jury a large part of it was finally your chair or his job but very low i got to ask you did it surprise even you how capitalism has reinforced systems of power among elite even though it may endanger their own children suppose you're the c.e.o. 'd of. j.p.

morgan chase biggest bank or exxon mobil you basically have 2 choices one choice is to meet the requirements of the institutional structures that exist and work to maximize profits. no matter what the human consequences that's one choice the other choice is to put those aside and work to create a decent world suppose you makes a choice in your beazley thrown out of the board of directors and somebody else is good in who makes the 1st choice these are institutional it's not individual it's no that's not to say that it be changed within existing institutions it can so take j.p. morgan chase again biggest bank you know recently internal memo of the bank

was leaked and made public it was very interesting it were in the directors of the bank that this in their words the survival of humanity is at stake if we continue on our present course of funding fossil fuels and it added that the bank is facing reputational risks meaning the public is getting and rage and will take its revenge on you and harm you through the leaders of the bank unless you make moves towards us we're going to save humanity from destruction otherwise the banks will be going over the public and national acts which can be done or replaced by public things nuptial within reach and the leaders of the economy know that their old is quite fragile while

everything seems nationalized here in britain more so than after the 2008 crash because of a pandemic and hundreds of people are being arrested on the streets of london as part of the extinction rebellion protest that j.p. morgan claims in public. rather than any fossil fuel loads for the arctic drilling have stopped their phasing out known for coal mining and they're planning a $200000000000.00 empowerment something called the empowerment economic development deal on pa with goldman sachs you mention exxon mobil well the bottom shelf says yes climate change is real yes renewables are an indispensable part of the future energy mix but no provoking provoking a sudden death of fossil fuel is not a plausible plan and then what you do is explain to the general public

that this is shoals that they're serving their own interests and you must hold their feet to the fire to dry up those pretenses and to do it they know is in fact feasible and correct to move away from certainly from coal and from all 'd fossil fuels as rapidly as we're involved in class war or one of the ruling class doesn't say i'm just going to do it i want i don't care about you they can't they don't have that power their rule is fragile they know it therefore they must accommodate to an energy judged active engaged of your relation exactly as is often done in the us the green new deal uses the phrase new deal because the new deal in the 1930 s. did something very similar. not are sufficient skill but

same kind of government action to overcome a crisis deep crisis coal cause the fundamental flaws of the list. and then came the war wish that slid more expense way beyond anything required. ended the depression created. fest. consumer demand which led to several. fairly rope it surely go there it grew. scale stopping that more from one of the world's greatest public intellectuals after this break.

during the vietnam war u.s. forces also bombs in neighboring laos it was a secret war. and for years the american people did not know. the mountain last how

much anticipation the mouth country per capita of the ball consume in history millions of unexploded bombs still in danger lives in this small agricultural country jordyn we have been going to continue tapping even today kids in laos full victim to bombs dropped decades ago it is the us making amends for the tragedy in laos won't help to the people need in that little land of mine. welcome back i'm still here with american president and author of the seminal manufacturing consent no i'm jones k. imagine the new deal clearly your primary process for the democrats did not elect bernie sanders who favored the new deal style politics here in britain of course jeremy corbyn lost the election what do you make of november you say in the book the democrats are in the pockets of wall street lobbyists the republicans you

compared to right wing fringe parties of europe. we have it right you know the republicans are would all. the you are in international comparisons. with artie's in europe with. with or. any emotional appeal you can emerge. milliards from or a critic regimes when news. in the inside the democratic or there's a conflict. you can see that if you look closely at what's. you know back about 2 weeks take a look at the internet 2 weeks ago look for democratic party climate programs they're pretty progressive program was biden's program forced on biden he didn't

choose it forced on biden by the progress or praise 'd. program or that any that it yet exist tailored at the same internet now to fill in right trey and clipped democratic climate programs what you find is nothing they removed the d n the democratic national committee the d.n.c. basically clintonite donor oriented democrats managed in a big power play to remove biden's progressive climate program that's a battle inside the democratic party is very rather similar to what we just saw and britain. where 'd the lehrer right right wing labor party or the mantra labor party managed undermine the korban campaign in

a really vicious matter very powerful 800 page deterrent study of how they did it which is being most recent pressed in the british press budgetary m. or which showed 2 means that they went to to try to undermine corbin's effort to develop a lever or e that would be responsive to the needs of its constituents before just story labor party with policies that actually had very high approval among the government the right way for the labor party for the mentor they were 40 couldn't stand that they'd rather lose the election than lose control of the 40 we're seeing something similar to that in the conflict within the democratic party today and what it means is the progressive base were harder more

energetically more commitment case by who wins the election to ensure that they go back to the impressive programs that they had announced and not be forced to abandon them by the donor oriented clintonite conservative element of the party and basically what used to be called moderate republicans but all of that has vastly overshadowed by the desperate need to get rid of the malignancy in the white house which whatever criticism you make of the democratic party the white house will need nancy is incomparably worse and will if that free. well we invite sukkahs starmer on to refute what you said about labor however he's seeking an investigation into our right to broadcast at all as for joe biden apparently the

policy hasn't changed 2 trillion dollars to boost clean energy and upgrade to $4000000.00 buildings a seeking of a shift towards public transportation but of course as you know in the most recent speech joe biden said no ban on fracking there are so many different aspects obviously to the green new deal but given that we've had the deaths of refugees being reported here in the english channel and in this book you say rich countries are in turmoil because a small fraction of refugees might defile their precious ethnic purity and you also quote the u.n. figure of 65000000 refugees fleeing violence persecution and global warming why do you think they are presented in our media as the migrants and that the real enemy here is human trafficking not foreign policy. for the reasons that you just quoted

and ironic but i have teary comment about they might be trial racial purity we've seen that it sure in human history is disgraceful it's shocking that has to be overcome europe's reaction to the refugee crisis is that specter will or europe is moving in a setting up centers in the poorest countries in africa. to try to deter people from fleeing from the wreckage of european imperialism to make sure that they don't get to europe sure riving turkey to keep them away from us no the there's a reason why people are fleeing not because they love the euro as because of intolerable 'd conditions largely created by

a european terror and violence over centuries and now it's europe's responsibility to behave humanely towards. not to resort to are racists pretenses in order to unhitch them for for europe crimes same is true here when president truong compels mexico to keep central american refugees from reaching the territory of the united states to full for asylum which they certainly deserve why are they failing central america. not because they don't like their own the current us terrorist while it's destroyed their country they're quite a few books people can read of us about that and that's terrible and violent i just . that you would agree presumably with donald trump however that our greatest

immediate threat was a nuclear holocaust caused by nuclear weapons agree with trump is racing towards maximize exist threat of nuclear weapons that's why the. clock has been moved over the famous doomsday clock has been moved the minute then has been moved closer to midnight every year the truck has been in office this last january they abandoned minutes moved to seconds 100 seconds to midnight since january trump has continued as an act on the arms control regime which is has been the rule is somewhat limited the enormous threat of nuclear destruction it already eliminated

the i.n.f. treaty one couple months ago march eliminated the open skies treaty which traces back to eisenhower he is no he laid on true phillis chromes delayed implement the renewal of the new start treaty and now it may even be too late to renew it that's the last of the major treaty is soon won beyond that were threatening to start nuclear testing. as has been learned for 28 years all of this is on top of that moving towards creating. new weapon new and or more threatening weapons of destruction against which there is no possible. immigrants don't have a very record on this issue nothing wrong well we invite we invite the u.s. ambassador on trump says actually he's all for peace obviously meant them finally

i've got to ask you about julian a songe of wiki leaks he begins the trial of his life in 48 hours time in a london court the u.n. report has been on this show says he's been effectively tortured by british authorities what do you think it will mean if the wiki leaks founder is extradited to the united states on espionage charges and would be a criminal on the part of the british government to exceed 'd to the u.s. and then an extradition. it would be if they've already committed many crimes. of surges of sense is not saying bail. now if he had good reasons not to as he would have been extradited if. not paying bill requires a tap on the wrist not torture in

a high security prison. up to the what reason not even a leader is allowed to receive folks i'm in mass murderers or being treated like in a way beyond the worst vicious criminal ok and if he's extradited it comes up for trial on the us as spinoza's laws which even ceria tensional did. it's trial is being. committed the crime of letting the general population know things that they have a right to know and that powerful states don't want of the know that's the crime. and the way the british government is acting is deplorable. of it or pressure again must be developed to ensure that each other be released quickly from these charges and. be absolved of all these threats while u.k.

prime minister mark johnson says it's only right the joining us on finding faces just as the government says it supports the important work of the un special rapporteur on torture but disagrees with a number of his observations as for the us sector say pumpin he says wiki leaks is also an intelligence agency on drums kay thank you and that's it for the season premier will be back on monday with one of the world's greatest corn a class of lausanne julies and democrats mike davis and until that join the underground by subscribing to our huge channel and following us on twitter facebook instagram is a. we

have already commented on this and said we have nothing to hide. again calls on germany to reveal the information. while nato calls for an international probe. russia says it's ready to move ahead with the next phase of its. global skepticism over its effectiveness a british medical journal claims the drug does produce an antibody response.

and amid rising tensions between washington and beijing china says it may significantly cut its holdings of us that.