quarterly drop in g.d.p. since the great depression questions are now being raised about what the united states will look like to the pandemic and if a change in the occupant of the white house will change anything joining me now is former white house communications director and founder of sky bridge capital add to these guys a lifelong republican who is supporting democrat condemned joe biden in the members' election thanks so much it hurt me for coming back on the show i should just say that this bob woodward book is a bold woodward allegedly a confidant of dick cheney a defender of the bush administrations you think we should believe anything he has to say about the whole joe that's an interesting characters asian as the bush administration didn't like him i mean he's written in any of these books going back to the nixon administration. the journalist you know he's fair to everybody and the administration's fear is that he's very unfair so listen guys to him mr trump spoke directly to were you can listen to that state you can judge the daves for yourself with or without

a book you can see that there's something seriously wrong there when you recognize that trump from the trump you worked with in the white house. well i think he's changed on michael collins said he's changed i've said he's changed us all like i'm a rose that i was with her 20 years has said he's changed. i see a more real person i see a person it's losing whatever level of attention that he had it's gotten more narrow and i see a person that is really regressing into childhood in terms of the way they handle criticism in the way they take in input and so it is his way or the highway we're running the u.s. administration like a one man broadway play there are no other actors or supporting players on stage with him and the result of which is because a nightmare inside ministration and it's led to this crisis and mr. management of

the pandemic which is then led to the debacle in the economy so alternately it will be a referendum on mr trump i think he'll lose handily of the book the woodward book then the book by the nice comments made by his sister or the michael cohen book that just came out they just continue to pile on so you know i grew up in a blue collar family my dad said to me when you had a stone you have a sledgehammer hit a big piece of granite it may not break after 50 hits and then maybe you're on a 70 if nothing happens and then sure enough on the 71st hit a rock explodes and i think metaphorically that's applicable here because this doesn't seem like that perfect mr trump but i think it is affecting them and i think you'll see this sort of demolition prior to the november 3rd referendum which is why you're supporting a man who allegedly runs a campaign from

a basement who is often seen on camera not understanding things who clearly supported mass incarceration use this remote control i would be supporting the remote control you know any am an object would be doing a better job mr trump he's made the country weaker or he's made the country poorer and he's made the country sicker and by the way i mean the guy is pretty fit vice president biden you saw right now bicycle he's he's going to go ok we'll i got to tell you the pick out of the death rate from grown of ours is worse here in britain than the united states as a as you seek to support the trashing of a covert reputation no i would really seek to support trashing him on trial would get it very objective we actually you know i don't why racial bellicosity in a blue collar family we are a family of immigrants i don't like him john and people who go back to the countries that the original. problem that's what they told my grandmother 100 years

ago i don't like the bullying of private citizens whether it's laurie pal or my wife your hero i don't like the deconstruction of western alliance that is alternately lead to great peace and it has prosperity for most of the quote that he's deconstructing so now there's a whole series of things that he's doing that you can look at objective lead if you love america and you want peace didn't go very you have to reject him at the polls isn't it is it peace or is it does it actually and the thing objective leads and the guys in the us we've got to get somebody else in there that's not nuts it's really that is it peace or is it actually war he denies the atlantic magazine remote looks that he apparently said there is a bit of it in the build military industrial complex one thing we're in he doesn't want war all i heard him say those remarks because when i was on the campaign plane with him and i mentioned to him that i had done troop support missions in iraq and

afghanistan and even shocked you like you know why the hell would you do that and you know what you saw at risk and then he would go into the diatribes that are being reported in the atlantic so we know the same this stuff is just surprising that it didn't come out earlier magnitude what he said ok away from the alleged insults all of america sure it's made a point about the wars. i don't like the worse i don't like the situation in iraq or afghanistan but i also don't like the threat of terrorism here in the homeland of the united states or in or in great britain so there is a unfortunately as you know anybody who has read an intelligence briefing related to all this knows how complex this is and there's no there's no decision on the matrix of decisions it isn't complicated it is difficult to make while trying to present. this is very simple there are forces in the military industrial complex

that one towards and as for the threat of terrorism it is precisely because of policies but bill clinton by both george bush's that's what caused it and of course he didn't you're you're you know at least to eisenhower now he hasn't read the speech he doesn't understand that speech and he's sitting there very flippantly saying derogatory things about the generals but he's also missing the fact that the listed men and women in the service which is predominantly republican are get sent against that he's the most unpopular commander in chief in modern u.s. history which is good news for the united states because he's trying to move the united states to an autocracy you got a guy when the military is he doesn't have it these people rally dislike him when you're you're bringing up something else about the wars i don't like the wars i think there was a mistake to go into iraq with this is now with 20 years of hindsight and

reflection i don't like it tacked on the world trade center 19 years ago i've been on wall street for 32 years i lost scores of friends in the world trade center and one very close friend and i eulogized his children. and 9 and 719 years ago so i don't like that either so you know and i know we live in a very very complex world and you can just look at the actions and the antics of president trump and know that he's unfit to serve as the american president and i would make the case even through it to our adversaries you want somebody more stable in that job and you want somebody a little bit more predictive ball and you want somebody that actually really does want peace and prosperity views right now this guy is reeling like he's lost inside a pinball machine ok it was actually eisenhower i was thinking about well just finally nobel peace prize nominee that is not why you guys now are that you would i mean are going to have to see. on this t.v.

show the nobel peace prize nominee as such donald trump he once said we love wiki leaks there's a big trial going on here for the press freedom amnesty international have been barred from the courtroom here love of control to see over the english court proceedings any chance for the job administration could to stop maybe the white house decides to stop the extradition of julian asunder to the united states i don't need to do a web app prior who actually so all have to see what he does after the referendum but you know that's a political hot potato that i don't think anybody wants to touch inside the white house right now and again you and i both know how complex that situation is and you know and i think your democracy and our democracy is being threatened by a very surgical very careful all. militia that happens to be an intelligence militia and it's based on social media

and it's trying desperately to do in the russians i mean the russian has yeah oh you mean the russians. well you know what i mean you know what i mean i honestly know jesse after the other reporters and tell you your viewers are intelligence you you know what i mean and by the way here's the thing when you read this stuff and you know this stuff and you see this you can see this stuff when you hear this and on your this and so silence is a form of complicity when you're looking at a situation like this and you realize that the american president has made the country weaker sicker westie ball and more divided you have to speak out if you love the country and if you love the world you also have to speak out because you know that a more stable administration somebody that could work a straight the administration and need it which would lead to a more prosperous. american economy which helps the world and could put down the

pandemic i understand you have the same problems in great britain and it's been a failure for both countries but but the president had the information he told what were they had the information he knew it was 6 times more deadly but he decided to play it down. you can't do that when you are in the response of all. of the american government you can't you know when you have the most secret position in public service in america you're not the world ok and you can't do that as he's going to be and you men have a scary movie thank you he said he said it was so that the american people didn't batting thank you often the break the support of evangelicals with a sense of history like you will be understood is a change in u.s. politics and in the 400th year of the mayflower we're about to see history on the 17th century i believe catch up with icy states big time ahead of a u.s.

presidential election with biblical significance coinciding with the 400th anniversary of the mayflowers arrival in the united states we investigate how november's votes might be the most significant in the history of the so-called city on the hill told us all coming up in part 2 of going on the ground. will justice be done in a london court not only is julian assumption on trial but so is freedom of speech and the profession of journalism what explains this farce of media coverage of this trial why haven't more journalists spoken out and is a sign is being used as a car you need to say don't deal with those challenge the powers that be. by the pandemic no certainly no blood is just blind to nationalities. and you just as a merged we don't talk with you we don't look like seeing the whole world needs to

be ready to. judge you. come in every crisis what is interesting to want to times we can do better we should be. everyone is contributing each of our own way but we also know that this crisis. will not go on forever the challenge is create the response has been so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we're in it together. welcome back involved one we heard from donald trump's former white house communications director has a scary movie about what he sees as the existential threat from poses to the united states but many in the country some of the 70 percent who identify as christians see trump as not only their president but their savior head of an election that

coincides with the 400th anniversary of the mayflower arriving in the united states well today is the voyager of the anniversary of the start of the voyage before 1000 restrictions were in place we spoke to martin wizard whose book trump and the puritans is out now arjun welcome to going underground tell me about the book and why november's election is not the discontinuity that we're led to believe by some mainstream media outlets or basically our premise is that you can only understand the modern united states in 2020 but understanding something of its deep story where people think they're coming from how they read their history even their mythology and that if you look at the united states purely as a modern phenomenon then you come away utterly bemused that all job is not to be written off as an idiot remember 2020 should be read in the context of another anniversary this year the 400th anniversary of the mayflower just go through that

with we would argue so it's a curious combination of events in november no less even the same month that november 2020 is both the date of the next u.s. presidential election but of course it's also the 400th anniversary of the arrival of the mayflower on the shores the eastern shores of the united states in massachusetts and our premise is that that what followed the huge influx of puritans in the 630 something called the great migration created a really significant contribution to the d.n.a. of the usa which obviously has changed developed over the years. 1990 s. edge of 20th century but nevertheless makes the united states quite unlike any other comparable western democracy for example 2014 very detailed research showed that something like 70 percent of adult americans identify themselves as christian and those adult americans something like 26 percent

identify themselves as evangelicals over that 26 percent something like 81 percent voted for donald trump in 2016 the support of evangelicals with their sense of history rightly or wrongly understood is again change in u.s. politics and in the 400th year of the mayflower we're about to see history and the 17th century i believe catch up with united states big time ok well let's go back a little from from then to the mayflower you summarize the brutality against the native americans this is all part of the thread that you spin right through to today and at the same time you see this implicit influence is injuring in say steve bannon when he took on the clintons deplorable pence in the anti climate change ideas and the science abortion rights all of this we can trace to those initial

massacres of native americans and the type of christianity that was burgeoning in the east coast i think to be fair to the bay flower curiously enough although this is the year that kind of kicks off the big puritan influence in america the mayflower settlers at plymouth actually as the case of the fence had a pretty good relationship with native americans they were if you like far more tolerant than some of the ones that followed them know which is were burnt at plymouth and the ones that were earlier before the mayflower absolutely yes failed callie's yes absolutely no quakers were hanged plymouth but but the key thing is that what happened in sick. 20 was was the proving that a puritan a godly american was possible and what happened from 1630 on words which people often forget is there was a huge movement of people who were dissatisfied with the state in this country to the north american colonies and so between 1630 and the early 16 forties literally

thousands of people sometimes called the great migration moved into what we now call new england and set up for example the colony of massachusetts bay and in massachusetts bay rather than in plymouth colony which was more tolerant to the south we see something of quite a theocracy being established it's in massachusetts bay for example the 1690s we have the salem witch hunts it's in reaction to what's going on there that we have appalling massacres of native americans in king philip's war for example in the sixty's seventy's so although the mayflower if you like is the iconic this is this is the year we pin this on i think in defense of the mayflower settlers it was the next generation and the next influx of people into the east coast of america forming these puritan bible called commonwealth that created much more of these hardline theocracies in massachusetts bay and also continued that sense of the alien other that sense of america being a new jerusalem and they even referred to north america as being an american canaan

this idea about having crossed the jordan river jordan with the atlantic into a promised land for the promised land read north america they were creating if you like an american israel and i think it's something of that sense of exceptional nurse that sense of providential calling that i think particular that next generation of puritans have contributed to in effect the modern usa and it runs and runs from there i'll get to israel in a 2nd to mike pompei or what i do as a former president. director but if any roman catholics are watching you tie it up to this original purity. idea of. a religious sect in the eastern united states you tie up that with. with successive lives jews roman catholics it didn't matter the exceptionalism is a d.n.a. that runs through no matter what you believe it it's the idea of american ness that sort of thing exactly because clearly in the 400 years since the mayflower

america's changed on all comprehension huge influx in eastern europe russians poles people from southerners all those states always were open catholic with french colonial is absolute absolutely so so we're not all going for for a simple puritan thread what we're saying is that in all the amazing changes of taken place in the north america you know the movement of jewish people the movement of muslim people and so on although it is change huge since $1620.00 that there's something that's been entered into the american d.n.a. a romance if you like which often glosses over brutality bottoms and so the exceptionalism can be seen in iraq afghanistan libya syria iran renders ways nicely the exception is and comes from there and you say doesn't matter of your republican or democrat obama channeled the city on the hill was the city or the hills which are an important idea in the american that's all that's

a very good question the city on the hill was a phrase that was used in 1630 as this next generation on the so-called winthrop fleet arrived to found massachusetts bay and the idea was that what was happening in america was going to be an inspiration to the world that effectively they were creating in north america a new jerusalem in the new world a new israel in the new world as it were and that what they were going to do that would be like a city on a hill that the world would look to them and see something extraordinary happening there that phrase a city on a hill for example it's quoted by j.f.k. as quoted article twice by regular it's a british referred to by. president trump it's the concept that america is this unique state this unique exceptional experiment which the world looks to now obviously that's very attractive if you're american it can be a little galling perhaps if you're not an american because obviously there is

exceptional sense to that but that i think is millions of. something to say about i've tried to diplomatic but clearly that has spoken very powerfully to the american consciousness ok but there is shouldn't right that gets around donald trump in all drama is going to appear with on the television you also talk about how they would be able to forgive the. world their own personal foibles of the president by quoting or of this name checking in a rainy and leader. cyrus absolute it's quite curious isn't it that we see we see a persian king a persian prince being used as the comparison for donald trump and the state would have to explain that the story that's going on here is that in the old testament in the jewish scriptures we have this image at times of people who are who are not part of the religious community being instruments in the hands of god and within the old testament there is this king called cyrus and if you if you google him

you'll find him if you look in concordance is of christian bible you'll find him in the old testament the jewish part of the bible and cyrus is a person in the old testament who does things for god's people according to god's plan says the old testament although he is not jewish although he is not one of the one of the chosen people although he is not of the people of god so more than evangelicals quote him again and again and again and again and they look at somebody like president trump and they say i know is imperfect. i can live with the attitudes the accusations of immorality with women and sons over i can live with the coarseness i can live with a barrage of tweets because i'm not talking back in this man because i see him has a more exemplar i see him as this of course is the big question an instrument in the hands of god achieving what we need to achieve in 2024 to move cyrus's in the south of the islamic republic of iran you sure that despite all this religious

d.n.a. running through the history of the united states you talk about something called the treaty of tripoli which is the government of the us is not in any sense founded on the christian religion but this was a treaty with islam well i'm not sure this isn't a schoolbooks what liturgy of tripoli it's extraordinary isn't it basically the treaty of tripoli libya yes yes we'll have more to libya but we have the treaty of tripoli which we go backwards of 200 years with an attempt of the new. really minted american republic you know we're talking the next generation after the declaration of independence breaking away from british imperialism trying to create its own trading arrangement with a north african state and that the treaty is formed and in order to reassure the people that they are working with they say there has never been a conflict between america and what mohammedans as they would they would call the. islamic test head is not to be the phrase was used at the time but that's what's

meant and actually ironically says america is not and never will be and has been a christian state or a secular state and one of the curious things of course is that america is officially a secular state we have a complete separation of church and state that there is if you like a head albeit one nation under good and that's a curious thing because america has this curious dichotomy where as on one hand. it is a it is a completely secular state there is no state church there is there is no statement of christian faith and yet on the other hand there are very very strong constituency that that argue that the the d.n.a. of america is so intrinsically christian that effectively it should be christianity that's informing the national dialogue more than any other state so you have this curious thing the treaty of tripoli that says this is a secular state we can get on with most information go with anybody and you have modern evangelicals who are saying effectively we think that it should be christianity and

a christian concept that is of that is informing the national dialogue and this informing the for the formation of american morality when britain isn't bombing libya probably unaware of the treaty of tripoli turner and it peo said at one point god sent trump to protect israel from iran you kept on mentioning israel the new israel how do you see the deal of the century and the streams of d.n.a. in the deal of the century and that's where the trouble of ministration in. israel is quite a fascinating concept within if you like the puritan d.n.a. contribution in one sense american puritans and they fed this into the d.n.a. if you like saw themselves as being like an american israel so in always being a replacement if you like that the new israel the new chosen people if you like americans you actually find this phrase you know me if you want to hear that yes

yes not native americans would be european incomers but but puritans also had this sense that they were living in the last days that they were living they were looking towards the 2nd coming of christ and therefore even while they were describing themselves as being like a latter day a modern day israel there was still this sense that god had not finished with the jewish people that wonder the jewish people return to a home in palestine that would precede the 2nd. coming of christ and what we see in a sense where policy meets apocalypse if you like in the modern evangelical movement is that sense of viewing israel not simply as one of the states amongst many within the middle east but being a state for which there is if you like a divine mandate at the moment what's become what's always been since 9048 a traditional support for israel from the united states is actually now developing into much more of a religious crusade and a crusade on for some years and yet the jews or go to hell judgment we have

a curious situation here for eternal hell is where for example trump himself is on record as saying that when he when he makes statements about the annexation of the golan heights when he makes statements about and of course move the embassy to jerusalem but he gets more letters from christian evangelicals praising him for doing this than he does for american jews because traditionally as a broad statement the american jewish community has been more inclined to as democrats but there is a sense in which many of these christian groups see israel as been playing a key part in end time events leading to the end of the world and therefore the american support for israel is basically lining itself with the right side of providence the other way to thank you my pleasure martin which expedient to be then his book trump of the puritans is out now and that's after the show will be back on saturday would you ask a lawyer who helped win their story amazon deal about why he faces prison without

a jury trial until then keep safe to join the underground on you tube sound cloud incident of facebook. good to believe it is near those who really can show you. show it to thank you just because suitably. flat would that are supposed to stop us there so that. no no no to strip him of the episodes didn't go to scene sheesh q you're the go to slither in your force where you could be near my stuff in the street if not thoughts about spirit i'd be

to do it was more 6 pm in turn in though. if de gea cruel should. show the stress of school issuance for you to post here to post to or to move to. a story they were but what is. everybody's gaslighting everybody cooperations or gaslighting here central banks or gas mining here pianist our gaslighting is you know that it wasn't it's really it's downright read. a new gold rush is underway and gonna thousands of ill equipped workers are flocking to the gold fields hoping to strike it rich give a good. as they oh by those that were children are torn between gold. my family was very poor i thought i was dream i best get back to school which side

will have the strongest appeal. the 16th of september russia tells germany to stop politicizing the alleged poisoning of alexina valmy some in the e.u. parliament called for sanctions against moscow describing the incident as a kremlin assassination attempt. as officials encourage people in great britain to snitch on their neighbors he follows a new rule out trying to prevent the spread of the coronavirus. placed. on him in the summer.