so the judge revoked their access and these were and shields terrorists and people part of professional organizations who were seeking to monitor this court case as well as to report on it. you know iran it's going to los angeles you know it wasn't many years ago that julian assange is was they found in his last year alongside the the guardian in the new york times so why isn't the guardian the new york times and that doc too because it one time he was considered the greatest journalist alive now he's even given that privilege of that title and you know can you explain journalism just a banding one of its own go ahead ron. those are all the questions that we've been asking for quite some time now and i wish i had the answer for i mean i do yeah i mean i think it really speaks to just the failures of the industry especially in the united states i mean i remember that when he was exposing these war crimes and

he was deemed a hero and rightfully so he exposed some essential information of war crimes going on around the world then all of the sudden he was deemed public enemy number one and he's not even a journalist anymore and you even see segments especially here in the united states i mean one particular one comes to mind off the top my head where it was on n.p.r. and glenn greenwald basically had to explain to the reporter what a journalist isn't isn't allowed to do you had to correct the introduction that the reporter gave families as a reporter was like well this is one of julian assad just friends and when i was like i don't really know the guy i just understand this issue and i'm passionate about it because i am a journalist and it was basically glenn greenwald giving a crash course in the idea of freedom of the press so as someone who is supposedly a professional reporter so the the kind of radio silence in the united states has

been nothing short of disturbing you know until then what did the problem is here isn't it and i think ron's example is so perfect because a great deal of what well what very little the american public specifically knows about it is wrong to gauge. the pain that i can't get over for all of this time is it it's the the the authorities they want to focus in i'm sure how a son got access ok who gave it to him because i don't really want that ok and for us and for the public that is interested in story is that it's what he exposed not room but what he exposed and this is one. has the authorities so angry war crimes cover ups you my. a meddling in the media dictating narratives here he exposed all those things and telling the truth was his crime and there are times you're exactly right there were some pretty incredible moments in court last week when clive

stafford smith and attorney took the stand and he discussed the ways in which wiki leaks publications helped him and his own work as an attorney and how wiki leaks publications have led to positive social and political change in our world he cited his defense of want time of a prisoner as that he is wiki leaks documents to show evidence of torture and wiki leaks documents have also helped aid in the passing of legislation to and drone strikes in pakistan and the prosecution i can tell you was not happy and this is being discussed in a court of law unfortunately these are issues that are not discussed in our mainstream media and in our corporate media and that is why join us on chose to create wiki leaks in the 1st place if there is absolutely right with him to join us on this wouldn't be necessary for weiqi leaks of journalists have been doing their job to stop no kidding no kidding well in something i want to add to something that you said peter whether they're so concerned with where and how he got the

information and i just want to add real quick the reason that is is because they are desperately trying to make this claim which again there is no evidence of this by the way they're really trying to make this claim that he helped hack something because for anyone who is not aware the way the law works in particular in the united states but i think lucy wants to send her love to julian's cat by the way my and my cat was the center of love but but the way it works is that if you receive information like as a journalist or a publisher of you receive information and you publish it that is no crime you can even say hey. a this is good to the person who gave it to you hey this is good stuff can you get me some more of this that is also not a crime but let's say that person is hacking hacking illegally and you help them well that's that's considered a crime so they desperately are trying to make this case that juliana songe helped

chelsea manning there's no evidence of that they tortured chelsea manning to try to get her to say that that happened she still has and so that's kind of where they're at you know i think you know here i think at one point he was looking around to get a passport so he could shoot her video games i mean that's high risk national security very very own game all right yet taylor that that's just the whole point here is that. journalists it is journalists are fine as long as you echo what power wants you to say and that's what you see on cable t.v. 247 actually that's how you get on t.v. is by echoing the way the the talking points of the deep state and obviously your employer which wants to be in good stead with the deep state i mean you know it you know when james clapper says something i guess n.b.c. or something like that you know you you rest assured that he is in the know and

he's telling his employer so he can have this circular game or he leaks it and then they report it and he can perms it ok and we can leaks and julian assange short circuited all of that another reason why they hate. yes exactly i mean this is the 1st time that the u.s. espionage act of 1917 again legislation that was passed very long time ago during world war one is being used against a journalist and a publisher and in the courts the defense is not permitted to use a public interest defense in these types of cases and all the prosecution has to prove is that the publications could have potentially lead to someone being harmed or harm being caused just the possibility of that which is very easy to do if you think about it so it's very much in favor of the prosecution here and this case also really violates the 1st amendment we are saying that the 1st amendment does

not apply to a foreign national apparently that has been the court's interpretation and many do not agree with that assessment because the u.s. as in os x. does apply to a foreign national it makes absolutely no sense and also to go back to the point of wiki leaks publications really helping initiate positive change it was brought up in court as well that through the afghan and iraq war logs it really exposed how many civilians were dying overseas and it really deterred support for the war in the united states which is perhaps one of the reasons why former president barack obama chose not to go ahead with the prosecution yet this current administration is going ahead with the prosecution which that of course does speak to the political nature of this case and that this is a example of warren journalism i think it's the establishment's one i mean you know in a very weird way these very weird if you like it's been floated that he was thinking about some kind of partner clemency and that would include. and you know

what i think it's quite might do it because you know why it's a popular issue it's a popular issue what this department of justice is doing is oh. popular and it's something that most people feel it's in just deep inside there's something wrong with this year because ron this is an example julian aside is an example and that's what they want to send a chilling effect through the entire profession i would say even destroying the profession and pretty much destroyed anyway go ahead ron. yeah i mean i don't i don't share your enthusiasm that trump might pardon anybody because i think medical maybe i don't know i understand i understand but but i would just say you know i don't really have any confidence in that happening simply because the people who he's surrounded by would never want him to do anything like that and he's listening

to the people he's surrounded by so so i and i and fortunately don't see anything like that happening. and i want to just pee back on something taylor said real quick you know this whole idea that ok he's not an american citizen which he might julius i'm not an american citizen this whole idea that we're going to impose the espionage act on him which you know was passed in 1917 because a world war one doesn't really have any relevance in our day and age right now we're going to impose that on him but of course the freedom of speech laws don't apply to him because he's not an american citizen there's a phrase for that that we all know that's a very colloquial thing but it's basically what this is that's called having your cake and eating it too and that's what the prosecution is trying to do here they are trying to set everything up so that they just have the easiest path necessary and there is no way for a number of reasons that he would get

a fair trial here in the united states if you were ever to come here to the united states because they'd be able to do everything behind closed doors ok we're rapidly running out of time this part of the program here in the next part i want to talk about the issue of freedom of speech of the 1st amendment because i think you can interpret it in many many ways and i want to talk about the future of journalism so stay with us we're going to go to a short break and when we come back we'll give you a discussion on julian assange. seems wrong. just don't all. get to shape our. engagement because betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart. choose to look for common ground.

world is driven by. the day. thing. we dare to ask. welcome back across the uk where all things are considered on people bill to remind you we're discussing the song struggle.

ok let's go back to london feeling you were talking about that day at the 1st amendment here but this is an extradition treaty and i do know looking at the people that are covering this is that they are grappling with a man how american law meets british law because it's a treaty that both sides have to agree with so i think it's a strike against you this is a doesn't apply to join us on because they're trying to apply american last year and i think it's quite disturbing how the british legal system is bending over backwards to accommodate the american position by during this prosecution go ahead . yes exactly it seems as if the government has no sovereignty essentially the judge manesar bracer in this case has consistently rules in favor of the prosecution and the u.s. government and did not even grants julian assange bail a couple months ago when it was definitely warranted because he is at an increased risk of contracting because he has a chronic lung condition and he's

a sentient being held in prison on remand without charge he already served his time for minor bail violation where he was given a very lengthy sentence for that minor violation but to go back to freedom of the press issues in the 1st amendment trevor tim who is the founder of freedom of the press foundation and an attorney as well he took the stand and had a very powerful testimony where he spoke about the serious implications this case has he addressed the issue of the espionage act and how it's being used very broadly to punish very standard journalistic activity journalists all over the world. and it's very very serious that the u.s. government is seeking to criminalize this activity things like source protection which is a journalist obligation to protect their sources as well as publishing leaks which is a big part of journalism history as well. you know ron what is the future of the profession

here because it seems to me that you know a lot of people that are involved in journalism or activism they're activists for certain person political ideology and and in the end to do have a impact you need access and so if you just can stuff you'll get more and more access if you don't question too much then you know you'll be considered a favor ok and those journalists will get preferential leaks too to pursue a political agenda i mean that there seems to be if i don't think we're going to ever have a journalist that's going to. expose all gray began or the meal i massacre that's in our past because no one has courage and the only person that does has courage is on trial in london go ahead well you know i used to say the media structure in the united states is toxic i have since tweak that where i say we don't have a media structure in the united states and that's very toxic and that's the truth

we really don't we just have a corporate giveaway where institutions who have no business being in news and information dictate our news and information we have m.s.m. b.c. which is owned by comcast c.n.n. which is owned by time warner and has no business being in news jeff zucker admits to that and fox news was just an extension a ripper murdoch so we don't really have a media structure in the united states now a reason for hope is there is a and of independent journalists in the united states and that list is growing by the day and they're doing some amazing work and they're boots on the ground all over the country and then all over the world i mean tailors in london right now so the optimist in me says eventually we'll see some types of policy. that aid a healthy new structure something like other countries have i mean norway for

instance comes to my mind 1st but i think that's going to take a lot of time and i think it's only it's not going to happen until you know the grassroots becomes so powerful that it really cannot be ignored anymore and it becomes kind of kind of the main game in town but that's slowly but surely happening i mean especially amidst younger generations that are turning away from cable news more and more in droves and i mean you're absolutely right because cable news will never give you the context of a story so it's very hard to comprehend it's meaning and unfortunately part of my job is the watch a lot of cable t.v. and no my dear were you people that the people that report on it i don't really know what they're talking about and then the you how the presenter is tough you know it's they really don't know what they're talking about because everything is very skewed all the time it's i'm always not like oh why didn't you mention this or like you had 60 minutes they made a statement on yemen but they never mentioned that the u.s.

is involved yeah you just never met never mentioned and you're still just a minor detail at mr munder detail that how the how they just dismissed the editing room somehow you know i'm going to ask you a very depressing questions and brace yourself here. and it's already quite depressing i can't help but think that they're just running the clock out and join us on his health because we have this procedure they'll be an appeal it could eventually end up in the supreme court and not just before the extradition is approved i mean i hate to say it but if you images i've seen of him he's in very bad health and he's getting no from what i understand any real credible medical assistance and the conditions that he's kept in obviously is not a person in or help me i'm sorry is that crossed your mind i'm sorry to have this dark up but what do you think it's very important we do talk about showing us. that has been completely neglected now shortly after his arrest last year the un special

rapporteur on torture visited prison along with 2 other independent medical professionals each of them assessed assigned and they did this separately each of them separately came to the same conclusion that he has been subjected to torture while he was in the ecuadorian embassy for 7 years this is very very serious because the u.k. government has not properly addressed this they are required to conduct an independent investigation into the matter they have not. stated that he did address the u.k. government the u.s. government sweden and ecuador who are all complicit and the psychological torture and none of these countries have appropriately responded they're going to be very long term effects of this isolation and it's important to remember that. has contributed so much to our world through wiki leaks and wiki leaks has but he is

also a human being he is also a son he has a mother and a father he has a fiance and 2 young children and we have to look at him as a human being as well who is being treated in an appalling way and the people behind his prosecution and persecution specifically members of the 5 agency should be hanging their heads in shame over how they have allowed this to happen and keep this going on yeah. empire. ok and everything that caleb just said there they don't care about they said they just simply don't care about i think one of the things that's happened to this is that the individuals and groups that have supplied julie design meets. information that were laid of was later put on line we would call them for this whistleblower but now we have a new form of a whistleblower and. that is. over of power ok and what if you look at it

particularly under the trumpet ministration with. ukraine gate and this most recent one here i am all for whistleblowers here but now they're being redefined ok in a way that. undermines and degrades what a real whistleblower should be we should praise them ok but now with this definition being changed ever so slowly the original meaning is gone. yeah i mean i think it's it's one of those things you kind of have to look at something as a case by case as a case by case issue you know and you can't just take oh this person is going to what are they blowing the whistle on what were truth are they telling what what is who are the players involved here and also this part's important who doesn't want you to hear or know about this that's always the i mean those are always the important questions to ask so you know i think it's important we don't allow the

the notion of a whistleblower to be i jacked and we just got to keep our eyes and ears to the ground you know you know town of the if i've been told by a number of legal people that if. and when and which is probably the case that julian is going to still be alive the trial that he would face in the united states could very likely be closed that we would not know the proceedings it is far and even up to where julian's the parents' article defense lawyer would not even be able to know what the charges are against him and and essentially this amounts to a secret court so what i'm saying is that from what i have been told and connecting the dots is that if that trial started we may never hear about it again it is process and its conclusion because it will all be secret they were yes that's exactly right because it is a national security case if julian assange is extradited to the united states he would be tried in the u.s.

eastern district court of brittania which is known as the espionage court there is a 100 percent conviction rate in this court they are not public trials that are held there because the evidence in these cases are state secrets so they have to close it off from the public and you're correct in saying that the attorneys were not be able to access this information that's presented in that courts and that's part of the court documents it's a very. twisted form of justice it's not justice at all that's why it is so essential that assad is not extradited to the united states because they will use code words to signify pieces of evidence in the case and that is because of course they say this is a sensitive information so it's a very secretive court and like i said i can't stress enough it is very important that he has not brought to the united states so ron if we can sum up here the if the conclusion that the powers that be want us to draw is that never a question power that's what they're saying never question ok and the the

amazing history of weiqi league sells is just the opposite is they never believe these people go ahead wrong oh absolutely and that is i mean julian assange they are using him as an example of don't publish things that we don't want to be seen edward snowden they're trying to use him as an example chelsea manning they're trying to use terrorism example and it's trying to draw fear out of the american people and around the world even saying hey don't speak out don't act out or this is what happens. ok taylor what's the next step during the proceedings to 15 seconds go ahead tell us yes the last time i left off we were unclear what was going to happen with the tech side of things that this case is expected to last for 3 to 4 weeks total of course it could be extended beyond that but the defense will still be putting witnesses forward ok thank you for that i want to say my guest in

london and in los angeles i want to thank our viewers for watching us your r.t.c. a next time remember. last time we chased. each one of the carrying 20 kilos 'd of drugs. first offense. is free

we have made all my little men they. like. me. i don't know maybe they don't. i want a break right. now war. was a pandemic no sin you know born is just blind to nationalities. so my. world needs to be. judged as comedy crisis with this system. we can

do better we should. everyone is contributing. but we also know this crisis will not go on forever the challenges create the response. so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are in it together. at the bo didley que sneer those who really can show you can. take this just be suitably. proud that was supposed to stop us they have something that. no numbers stupina bull episodes didn't go to see your go to sleep during your force wake would

be near my stubbornness today if not thoughts about spirits i didn't do it was more than 6 pm in fun you know. if de gea should. show schulman's for you to post to a pub ice to move. to a story keep they were but it. is your media a reflection of reality. in a world transformed. what will make you feel safe. isolation community. are you going the right way or are you being that so. direct. what is truth what is faith.

in the world corrupted you need to descend. to join us in the depths. or a mate in the shallowness. everybody's gaslighting everybody cooperations or gaslighting you central banks or gas mining you. anderson our gaslighting is you know that it's not pleasant it's really it's downright weird. a new gold rush is underway in ghana thousands of ill equipped workers are flocking to the gold fields hoping to strike it rich here's a good. as. those children are torn between gold. my family was very poor i thought i was doing my best to get back to school which side

will have the strongest appeal. russia calls on germany to stop politicising the edge boys in an opposition figurehead alexei navalny in though insists it's up to moscow to clarify how a mother of 3 great nerve agent was purportedly russian soil. gets snooping that's the call from officials in the u.k. who want people to snitch on anyone breaking new code restrictions. no not a shopping list to chill out and see is that basically what i think you. know i would come. up to him in the summer. i would. put coronavirus cases surging in britain the country's testing system is said to be at breaking point.