hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered on peter lavelle over the last 3 presidential election cycles there is clear evidence voters are attracted to the message of not interventionism and are very wary of foreign wars this most certainly helps trump in 2016 but his time in office is spotty at best now joe biden appears to embrace the same foreign policies as bush and obama i guess nothing really will undo mentally change. cross knocking forever wars i'm joined by my guest laura fink in san diego she is the founder and c.e.o. of rebel communications as well as a democratic strategist and in new york we cross the line all he is a legal and media analyst i crossed up rules in effect that means you can jump any time you want and i also appreciate how it was going to san diego laura joe biden

the presidential candidate for the democrats he had an interview with the news outlets are stars and stripes and the men are very clear that he would continue the foreign wars in the middle east should strips would remain there he had doesn't contemplate any kind of cuts in defense spending and at the same time we have like the eurasia group foundation which is kind of in the sec it's a very centrist and they have research tend to be overwhelmingly the public supports less militarization of foreign policy and decrease in military spending and are on the side of ending these forever wars why is joe sticking to the bush obama agenda go ahead mark well i think that it's the white the american people want is probably in line with like joe biden wants no one wants to be an endless wars apennine change man is sometimes necessary and you know everyone would last you know in the defense budget after 19 years it's still worth it how. well look i

think you know but look we can we can just you know different decisions made by different presidents and i would say that there is a diversity of the lassa fever among the different presidents that you names but i will say we're talking globally about engagement versus isolation as also mentally this is about fomenting and trying to encourage peace in a very particular way and very tricky way and i think it's i think it's challenges and that doesn't mean just in that you know military engagement means diplomatic engagement needs economic engagement it means figuring out how to balance the tools in our tool catch to try to create stability and peace around the world and ultimately that is in the american interest so i think that when we reduce these arguments into something about do or not do this is it's you know yoda and starwars this is this is a complicated foreign policy you know discussion and i think we have to take it case by case but but you've got you can go ahead make a play get out but it's a difference with all due respect i think the american people are tired of it's

complicated ok that's why we need leadership and i don't think president trump has been a very good job in this respect to make a line here why is that the binary isolationism interventionism i see that all the time it's a false argument well i'm i'm still trying to get over there ocean of fomenting peace i love that notion of we're going to do we're going to enrage people we're going to to increase the courage of the vortex for peace by by engaging our military to foment peace we are forgetting the fame and if you will of the the essence of this issue and that is simply this what is our mission nobody is against military involvement military action defending our allies but the idea that our of being there does something magical to keep our enemies and why we need to know why are we there look i don't want to go deep state police state intel. stage

shadow government ruling class but this is the military industrial complex that has been a part of the american political system irrespective of party that's what this is this isn't going to do with beach nobody can explain what we're even doing in afghanistan yet if you ask people that had something remotely to do with 911 and that said there was nothing un-american by demanding that we have a clear and cogent and limpid system of protocol and a message and a mission and that's it you know lowered it it seems to me because if we quit you know campaigning as campaigning promises or promises ok we're all political junkies here but it seems to me that no matter what a candidate says maybe with the exception of hell i'll see gabbert which the democrats dismissed quite quickly. and i feel very unfairly is it doesn't really matter what your political stripe is the permanent state or what people call the deep state they're just going to keep calling the shots because you know i'll give

trump credit for at least trying to get out of his quagmire ours but the deep state or the permanent bureaucracy constantly blocks don't you think that's going to happen to biden to go ahead well i'm not going to disagree that the military industrial complex is tower fall but they do i think that they are calling the shots alternately i think that's a tin hat conspiracy theory accent look that under the globe all the gloves the distribution of global power is something that no single president can ultimately change but the u.s. has a responsibility as a leader to unite our allies and to try to ensure that we have it because ultimately he helps us in and it protects our american security and you know you cannot let go of the military option entirely i think that's naive i think you humble and i don't disagree with no 100 is employing a minute i didn't say that i didn't say. ok again it's

a false binary cut and i don't want to engage on the fastener but i'm just telling you what i'm hearing here when i say bad that there's this conspiracy that the military deep state is is directing and calling the shots i will say best donald trump is making big moves but the impact of those moves does not seem to be beneficial unilaterally removing troops from situations before ensuring that there is debility and a vacuum is not created also met lete doesn't do any good us any good it can be a great talking point so they can petri out but will after this and take out a sound withdrawal and the culprits hollaback will beseech the afghan government i have a more stable in gauge event will we see the people's livelihoods if the us isn't the american people's responsibility to maintain peace in afghanistan while what is why is the united states in syria why it's even legal under international law it

was not invited there and it is not about it i'm sorry it's protecting its oil it's not that it's not america's oil to protect ok legacy lesley's my point here no one likes to talk about these things are very inconvenient or presence for peace think it keeps the civil war going on but here you're arguing against it without ad out without advocating for a solution so i suppose you know you're saying if you did everybody out lucian it's very simple if you get out then the parties on the ground will have to figure out how it's i think it's how you get out name take no get your on the airplane then you get out no go out if this is ridiculous see this is an argument you can see i do this all it's not to result in the kick the can make i tell you what if you get out there are people turn. well 1st i love whenever something is promoted that is true that has been spoken of since eisenhower is valedictory the military

industrial complex when you don't know what to say with all due respect to our guest some measure of the facts coming my way or so. you bring up this this fact need trope about conspiracy theories just become the climate change whatever you don't know what to do why are there fires climate change now if you want to just say you don't believe in climate change either just to be clear i believe in climate change i believe in weather and the sun but i do not believe in an anthropogenic cause a genre. no never how was seen none of the housing maxima thermals anybody who really knows anything about this when are you anyway aside from that is what i'm going to do battle of the bunkers and you're already have a big problem i don't visit they get bigger ready but yours they look no further than a whoa look no further than the atlantic council look no further then people are trained to read old cold war rousseau phony tropes there is

a murder sure that is going on in the idea let's just go back to afghanistan where people have this this is they create this fantasy that by our being there we're teaching villagers how to drill for well means or something just so happens in afghanistan is the saudi arabia of libya and every conceivable precious metal that you can imagine that a friend of mine one time said what would have been the chances of our invading iraq if their main export had been progress we have to stop repeating these wonderful tropes and throw isn't about how they're defending the world and somehow maintaining peace but here's a question you asked me if we were to leave let's just next year or less you say we just sat right there is our syria figure out why. what happened how what our oh and our in the united states how our or anybody else's national security meet just so

happens there are some pipe or here it's about gaps it's about getting straight to the mediterranean and rusty he reminding us that the frank capra wonderful idea is you know we're going to spread liberty or never i mean this is your 2020 where we're past. i don't take it for how but laura did but it seems to me i mean we have to remember on obama's watch was the catastrophe in libya and i see the same kind of intimacy susan rice a whole ring around joe biden i see samantha power hurrying around actually they both spoke at the the r. and c. i mean you want it with people with resumes like that should would you would you be happy to see them in a biden ministration well listen i'm just i'd like to place on one basketball that some of the things that have been sent here ultimately you know that there is a binary being advanced by lionel here and it's that being involved no good can come of it you want to talk about syria for a minute let's talk about syria for a minute there were the complete absence of the u.s.

presidents presidents leaves room for russia and turkey to gain a foothold in the middle east it creates instability in the middle east and it leaves a pathway to peace as as a shimmer existence and this is as absolutely ridiculous to say that there is no impact when you remove american troops now it isn't an ideal situation you're be advocating for that again you know why is this important here but i don't hear any of that over here all the while you decry this binary that doesn't exist so as american presence in syria bringing about peace now what it does is it doesn't allow the government to rebuild ok i mean i mean the u.s. government continues to say action syria after the u.s. lost its last there and its process is let me do you a seat is easy and i don't croak unsalted really not a credit it's all in every case and i just allow them places you know foreign governments that are adversaries of the united states russia being one of them turkey being one of them just taking over the power and and i'm leaving

a power vacuum everywhere why do you say you are lacking is that where it sounds right it would actually make people sit down and talk instead of funding terrorist groups in the middle east you know if you know if saudi arabia is a close ally be united states. only not when saudi arabia is is exploiting the most noxious ideology you can possibly conceive of do you have you know you've never met or end up ok know that man is a one of the big in the region would have figured out you're ok and then about the military i'm just saying why is this in the american interest to be in afghanistan in syria and iraq when the iraqi government and people want us to meet how can we help the iraqi people and nothing all right on this point i have to go to a hard break i'm like i'm trying not to be rude here oh well we did it when we return we'll continue our discussion on a river war say. elderly

forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. i robot must obey the orders given by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the 1st law show your identification or should be very careful about our personal knowledge and the point of view see is to create a trance. very thing with artificial intelligence where some of the demon. must protect its own existence is.

better with opposed to some of the. because before. last time we chased. each one of them carrying 20 kilos 'd of drugs. forced to fence them. over there they just kept going through. it's a very we have made more the comment they believe they have this is the. day. it will be up well i don't see a porno maybe they don't make or. break every possible. way around war. right now.

well. welcome back to cross up we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing forever wars. ok laura you and i were having quite a heated discussion before we went to the break i think i owe you a time to reply i'm going to be to let me just say i don't know where to start because you just keep tossing in countries the game but ultimately we have to also get to know about the other day that the other instruments that we're talking about here which is the erosion of the diplomatic work is this is an entirely military solution this is an economic solution that needs to be with the instrument about solution being the work you need to have diplomats in gauging and you also need to have alliances i mean america is at its strongest when we have our allies moving

forward when we're at the center of these negotiations were working she use our influence and pride so that we can defend our economic interests and ultimately promote democracy because we know that liberal democracies don't fight with one another and only by worse than one another do you know why didn't i just let. finish one sentence and that would be great you didn't interrupt lionel but you got sure you will at some point but liberal democracies don't fight with one another so we should be advancing peace and that you may say that that's naive but that should be the ultimate goal with these sort of moves and that so you're not going to agree with me even on the diplomatic you have no right in the cloud and the votes are here and our lives so we'll be democratic ok that is i didn't say that i didn't say or i did was say anything like let it go ahead jim. can you do that you went back in time and took somebody who let's see right around the vietnam era brought them back listen to this conversation and ask. which one do you think of those

people talking right now is the democrat who's a republican or if you would say well this this very very well spoken woman i think is she must be she's a hardliner she's a hockey she's a republican so where are you sending about. writing him arguments we did in beat it not we never learn to shower him back you know we have to go there let me explain you one thing that you will never hear joe might claim for honor or speak through his wisdom decrepitude you will never hear the country china or. mention anything we will continue with the intro zooming team over russian or in this room so old thinking bating because bad has been the theme from the get go so the idea is simply this the democratic party has sold out to whatever

you want to call it another conspiracy theory it was a conspiracy in fact of the people who have won this country for ever and that is you when it comes to military industrial complex whatever joe biden is a manchurian candidate a man who does not know where he is a man who was basically changed who were radiator in a root cellar somewhere was going to be some planted within 2 to 3 months kamel harris if they're successful is going to be put in there the ultimate men cheery mentor in canada who will make the reclaim look like ramsey clark now we can pretend all we wanted we can use terms of ongoing unit being strong but this is about giving the checkbook to the people who have the. this country doesn't radio you're not going on at all you're not you're going to not me that i am oh that's ok it's good i know you're just did so jump it well here is the day you can do that i

don't know how you don't just drive out of the temple have i don't know understand how anybody yet that we want to talk about sign us joe biden is absolutely psyched about sign actually now he's against your he added that's going to replace by com i hear i mean i would you miss your new alliance or write novels that would keep me up at night and bigger rated maybe we can guess what movies you know 90 and i'd say there isn't but that has no business getting you know guy friends who are going to policy look me in the eye and look at hair in the eye and tell me that no particular time or do any of your style though democratic operatives has the subject know when is common my hair is going to replace job i tell me that has not been addressed tell me they hear me i have to say anyone ever has not talked about the vice president's fitness to lead in the advent of the president we talked about it was already very nice residence in the dawn of time someone you know your grandmother crowd here and i said you are not you know if you talk about 10 well i

want you to tell me that you honestly would bet any amount of money that joe biden could continue his term if elected you are finished me saying that you really believe. we're going pretty far afield here ok i want to stay with the foreign policy or oh laura what did you think of obama's foreign policy because it looks like it's going to be an echo about in potential new ministration so give us a score card for obama how long have you got i mean that listen i think it's complicated why don't we pick an area and you could narrow your question i'd happily answer that i think you know but your to do i get it's a libya i think it's even and i well you know look it was the perfect absolutely not do i think we need us. all cell rejection use of diplomatic aims use of an economic investments use of sanctions appropriately and and you know i don't think

that he was a military interventionist need we didn't go to bronze go and work on i mean that's what 7 so yeah i think he was and i know that it has attempts to try to move troops and where he could certainly happen so i think you know this is a i but i understand you have a completely different version of history about mosul you know so i don't i don't think i could have you know i'm shocked you know i'm just i voted version of it ok i think i said to you prior to this recording is that i'm equally hard on the democrats and the republicans equally hard on obama and on donald trump because i'm more interested in nonintervention and i'm very strongly entitled war and i think a lot of miss opportunities we have experienced there and it happens under all it ministrations and that's why i go back to what i said earlier is that it doesn't really matter who is president because you're going to have a permanent democracy then min's and that the only hills and people like that that say the interagency consensus well i didn't vote for that you didn't in line will

didn't ok and it seems to me and i will agree with what i know maybe i don't have the same kind of saurus delivery that lionel does but you know i'm a little bit worried about the guy you know if he got all his marbles because i see these people surrounding him and these people are bad people they made bad foreign policy decisions and they're still around. i mean listen you can't even if you say that you're against republicans and democrats equally but you only named the obama administration so it sounds like you guys the obama administration official with the ranee i don't think that was you know it was a good deal is a good diplomatic deal and i thought the obama administration for not taking that as a starting point is start stabilizing the middle east it was a great opportunity to do that and i think truck was a fool to walk away from it so there i give you a good example. this is and i just i don't like the iraq you know and that's what obama and to don't give kudos of president obama he was rather are

reluctant to do what his military advisors told him and the hawks regarding syria he could have done a lot more so he wasn't completely all in but let me just explain to me you are suggesting that we're going to abandon diplomatic negotiations had no manger who ever we're talking about military let me did let me just be very basic how do we explain to the war and now we're in all of these beasts is all over the world now i know this may be un-american to say they've got to give me more going to do i do not read about his own which gives the united states a right to go in and say we're going to tell country who they can speak with we're making deals is saudi arabia we have with our diplomatic schizophrenia is imperceptible to most people how does how do we tell anybody else you deal with

this and by the way since we're so worried about the stability of the middle east did you hear peter and you hear a lot this notion of the kompany of cudos it was a wreck in terms of president regarding what's happening in the middle east not a word nothing it's just because it was a photo op i mean because it was a photo op that is not is not to say that at 35. it's not that i'm not here now you just you've just you've just lost me company that's are just lucio day just as you know i don't think i was ever you cannot be serious you cannot know . honestly come on anybody going forward and say you have sacked was photo what do i have to explain to you they history oh i know your his you know it sounds like you know you're a member. more and i know that you are and right now here we're rapidly rapidly

running out of time here but i mean. don't you see this kind of continuing again kind of being non partisan here this continue being go back to george bush sr all the way to the present and it doesn't refer i am very frustrated you know you know there's plenty of data prototypically from the 2016 election that people are very against these wars these forever wars and trump talks about being against that but you know what he's president and he's and he's not succeeding under his watch ok and tells me something either is something is wrong with him or most likely or in addition to is that the permanent bureaucracy this is what we do for a living you know we have the we have these arms producers we have 5000 bureaucrats and nato that need to keep their ears of very lucrative ones at that and all these alliances well it's just really good for the arms producers i mean that's a logic that is irrefutable it's just good business but it's bad for security go

ahead so i just just to get its position me as odd as like quite frankly really it's i don't hear that i like oh yeah let it. fly over but oh i am paranoid so i just really do think that we can't oversimplify i feel like this conversation has been complete rejection as in that way where we can resemble i did say intervention when i. had only rejection she was already nastier oversimplification you've used every echo chamber troll since your idea you have well. as its response and he has because i'm responding to a question that intervention or not intervention you can take out your thighs and beat you over the head with it but it does not mean there is there is you can eat it at once and the you sure that's not where my so you can think it cost me litle and. you are right we have the one script for this argument that's not what we're

talking about you are talking about something else well you are creative and i will give you know you're not going to act are action i'm still reacting to fomenting peace by god we're going to deliver a piece tells them we're going to do it because that's what we do that's our america i can't believe that and by the way ok well actually it's the 1st time in 10 years i have no oh no i have no idea how to end this program but other than to say thank you laura i think they you line up for joining is here and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here argue see you next i remember us uk rules.

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shows seem wrong. but all wrong just don't call. to make you fall asleep yet to see a valid distinction because as a kid and in detroit because the trail. when somebody find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. we're segregated. by social class. people also in poverty. if you're born into a poor family you're born into a minority family if you're born into a family that only has a single parent that really constrains your life chances people die. generational poverty. it's a tough fight every day so you meet your needs and the needs of your family.

in the headlines this 18th of september political pain paul russia. germany the world's chemical weapons watchdog. the o.p.c. . 4th of its efforts to see episodes from the election of only. the rich 1st chair of. a small group of wealthy nations are going to hold over half of the potential. the vast majority of the world's population has produced a. huge 2 year gets off on the wrong foot with israel. in the country.