the presidential candidate for the democrats he had an interview with the news outlets are stars and stripes and the men are very clear that he would continue the foreign wars in the middle east should stripes would remain there he had doesn't contemplate any kind of cuts in defense spending and at the same time we have like the eurasia group foundation which is kind of in the sec it's a very centrist and they have research tend to be overwhelmingly the public supports less militarization of foreign policy and decrease in military spending and they are on the side of ending these forever wars why is joe sticking to the bush obama agenda. well i think that it's the white the american people want is probably in line with what joe biden wants no one wants to be an endless war but engagement is sometimes necessary and you know everyone would last you know at the defense budget after 19 years it's the worth it how well look i think no way but look we can we can just you know different decisions made by

different presidents and i would say that there is a diversity of the lassa fever among the different presidents that you names but i will say we're talking globally about engagement versus isolation as also mentally this is about fomenting and trying to encourage peace in a very particular way and a very tricky way and i think that i think it's challenges and that doesn't mean just in that you know military engagement means diplomatic engagement needs economic engagement it means figuring out how to balance the tools in our tool catch to try to create stability and peace around the world and ultimately that is the american interest so i think that when we reduce these arguments into something about do or not do this is it's you know yoga and star wars this is this is a complicated i have foreign policy you know discussion and i think we have to take it case by case but but you've got you can go ahead make a play get that but it's a difference with all due respect i think the american people are tired of its cause. complicated ok that's why we need leadership and i don't think president

trying to send a very good job in this respect or go to line here why is that the binary isolationism interventionism i see that all the time it's a false argument line i'm still trying to get over the ocean of fomenting peace i love that notion of we're going to do we're going to reach people we're going to to increase the courage of the vortex for peace by by by engaging our military to foment peace we are forgetting the root of a man if you will of the essence of this issue and that is simply this what is our mission nobody is against military involvement military action defending our allies but the idea that our of being there does something magical to keep our enemies why we need to know why are we there look i don't want to go deep state police state in tells a shadow government ruling class but this is the military industrial complex that

has been a part of the american political system irrespective of party that's what this is this is something to do with beach nobody can explain what we're even doing in afghanistan yet if you ask people that had something remotely to do with 911 and that said there is nothing un-american by demanding that we have a clear and cogent and limpid system of protocol and a message and a mission that's it you know lowered it it seems to me because if we you know campaigning is campaigning promises or promises ok we're all political junkies here but it seems to me that no matter what a candidate says maybe with the exception of the governor which the democrats dismissed quite quickly and i feel very unfairly is it doesn't really matter what your political stripe is the permanent state or what people call the deep state they're just going to keep calling the shots. because you know i'll give trump

credit for at least trying to get out of his quagmires but the deep state or the permanent bureaucracy constantly blocks don't you think that's going to happen to biden to go ahead well i'm not going to disagree that the military industrial complex is tower fall bent but do i think that they are calling the shots also and i think that's a tin hat conspiracy theory accent look that the the global the globe the distribution of global power is something that no single president can ultimately change but the us has a responsibility as a leader to unite our allies and to try to ensure that we have because ultimately he helps us and it protects our american security and you know you cannot let go of the military option entirely i think that's naive i think you humble and i don't disagree no 100 is important and i know i didn't say that i didn't say but ok again it's

a false binary call and i don't want to engage on the false binary but i'm just telling you what i'm hearing here when i say bad that there's this conspiracy that the military deep state is is directing and calling the shots i will say best donald trump is making big moves but the impact of those moves does not seem to be beneficial unilaterally removing troops from situations before ensuring that there is debility and a vacuum is not created also met late doesn't do any good us any good it can get to be a great talking point for the campaign trail but we will after this i think at a sound withdrawal and the deal with the taliban will we see the afghan government i have a more stable in gauge meant when we see the people's livelihoods if the u.s. is that the american people's responsibility to maintain peace in afghanistan why what is why is the united states in syria why it's illegal under international law it was not invited. and this is not about it i'm sorry it's protecting its oil it's

not that it's not america's oil to protect ok legacy last season i'd point here no one likes to talk about these things are very inconvenient or presence for peace think it keeps the civil war going on but here you're arguing against it without out without advocating for a solution so i suppose you know you're saying if you did everybody out lucian it's very simple if you get out then the parties on the ground will have to figure now it's i think it's how do you get out maintain no get your on the airplane and really get out no doubt if this is ridiculous this is an argument you see i do this all it's not to result in the kick the can i tell you what if you get out there people time. well 1st i love whenever something is promoted that is true that has been spoken of since eisenhower is valedictory the military

industrial how go when you don't know what to say with all due respect to to our guest some measure of the facts coming my way or so. you bring up this this fact need trope about conspiracy theories just become the climate change whatever you don't know what to do why are there fires climate change now if you want to just say you don't believe in climate change either just to be clear i believe in climate change i believe in weather and the sun but i do not believe in anthropogenic causes asian. no never how is seen none of the house in maximum thermals anybody who really knows anything about this when are you anyway aside from that is what i'm going to do battle of the bunkers and you're already have a big problem i don't visit they get bigger ready but yours think look no further than me look no further than the atlantic council look no further than people trained to dredge up old cold war russo phony trucks there is a murder sure that is going on in the idea let's just go back to afghanistan where

people have this this is they create this fantasy that by our being there we're teaching villagers how to. drill for welds or something it just so happens in afghanistan is new saudi arabia of libya and every conceivable precious metal and you can imagine that a friend of mine one time said what would have been the chances of our invading iraq if their main export had been progress we have to stop repeating these wonderful tropes and row isn't about how they're defending the world and somehow maintaining peace but here's a question you asked me if we were to leave let's just next year or less you say we just sat right here is our syria figure out why. what happened how would our oh and our in the united states how our or anybody else's national security meet just so

happens there are some pipe or here it's about gaps it's about getting straight to the mediterranean and rusty he reminding us that the frank capra wonderful idea is you know we're going to spread liberty whatever i mean this is your 20 twentieth's where we're. well take it for how big laurie did but it seems to me i mean we have to remember what obama's watch was the catastrophe in libya and i see the same kind of intimacy susan rice a whole ring around joe biden i see samantha power her ring around actually they both spoke at the the r. and c. i mean you want it with people with resumes like that should would you would you be happy to see them in a biden ministration well listen i'm just i'd like to place it on basketball that some of the things that have been sent here ultimately you know that there is a binary being advanced by lionel here and it's that being involved no good can come of it you want to talk about syria for a minute let's talk about syria for a minute there were the complete absence of the u.s.

president presence leaves room for russia and turkey to gain a foothold in the middle east it creates instability in the middle east and it leaves a pathway to peace as as a simmer at your existence and this is absolutely ridiculous to say that there is no impact when you remove american troops now it is an ideal situation you're be advocating for that again nuance is important here but i don't hear any of that over here all the while you decry this binary that doesn't exist so as american presence in syria bringing about peace now what it does is it doesn't allow the government to rebuild ok i mean i mean the u.s. government continues to say action syria after the u.s. lost its last there and its processes let it they do you will see is the legacy and i don't croak unsalted really not a credit something every nation and just allow them places you know foreign governments that are adversaries of the united states russia being one of them turkey being one of them just taking over the power and and i'm leaving

a power vacuum everywhere why didn't you hire that gives out everywhere that sounds right it would actually make people sit down and talk instead of son being terrorists groups in the middle east you know if you know if saudi arabia is a close ally be united so. only not when saudi arabia is is exploiting the most noxious ideology you can possibly conceive of let me know you didn't manage or end up ok know that man is a one of the page in the region would have to figure it out here ok and that ends the military i'm just saying why is this in the american interest to be in afghanistan in syria and iraq when the iraqi government and people want us to meet how can we help the iraqi people and nothing all right on this point i have to go to a hard break i'm like i'm trying to be rude here oh no we don't when we return we'll continue our discussion on forever war stay.

look at the bo didley case near those who really can show you. that with that i suppose you noticed us they have something that. no numbers stupina bull episode. good to see you sure the. slithering your force way would be near my stubbornness to be if not thoughts about spirit i pity you it was more experienced than me and no. clue.

for you to. sort of move. the story q. l look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. i robot must obey the orders given by human beings except where such orders to conflict with the 1st law show your identification for should be very careful about artificial intelligence and the point is to create trusts the shia. areas in with artificial intelligence will somebody. must protect its own existence let's go next this.

was. but it was supposed. i. suppose. it's true we i mean i'm a little boy they have. me. i don't know maybe. i will bring right. now we're.

ready. for round one. well the back to crossed up we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing forever wars. ok laura you and i were having quite a heated discussion before we went to the break i think you owe you a time to reply i'm going to be here let me just say i don't know where to start

because we just keep tossing in countries the game but ultimately we have to also getting out and about the other day that the other instruments that we're talking about here which is the erosion of the diplomatic work is this is an entirely military solution this is an economic solution that needs to be foments and with the instrument about solution being that that will matter work you need to have diplomats in gauging and you also need to have alliances i mean america is at its strongest when we have our allies moving forward when we're at the center of these negotiations when we're working to use our influence and pride so that we can defend our economic interests and ultimately promote democracy because we know that liberal democracies don't fight with one another and only by words when our teams are now look why didn't i just let me finish one sentence and that would be great you didn't interrupt lionel but you got sure you will at some point but little democracies don't fight with one another so we should be advancing peace and that you may say that that's naive but that should be the ultimate goal with these sort of moves and that so you're not going to agree with me even on the diplomatic route you know wrote it and needles are here and our lives so we'll be democratic ok that

that is i didn't say that i didn't say or i did it was say anything let it go ahead jim. he went back in time and took somebody who let's say he died right around the vietnam era brought them back listen to this conversation and asked. which one do you think of those people talking right now is the democrat who's a republican or if you would say well this this very very well spoken woman i think is she must be she's a hardliner she's a hockey she's a republican so where are you sending about. writing him arguments we did in beat it not we never learn to shower him back you know we have to go there let me explain you one thing that you will never hear joe my flavor of honor or speak through his wisdom decrepitude you will never hear the country china or

murmur mention about anything we will continue with the intro zima over russian or in this room so old thinking bating because dad has been the theme from the get go so the idea is simply this the democratic party has sold out to whatever you want to call another conspiracy here it was a conspiracy in fact of the people who have won this country for ever and that is you want to call the military industrial complex but if joe biden is a manchurian candidate a man who does not know where he is a man who was basically changer or radiator in a root cellar somewhere was going to be some planted within 2 to 3 months kamel harris if they're successful is going to be put in there the ultimate men cheery mentor in canada who will make the reclaim look like ramsey clark now we can

pretend all we wanted we can use terms of ongoing unit being strong but this is about giving the checkbook to the people who have the. this country doesn't radio you're not going on at all you're not you're going to not me that i am oh that's ok it's ok i know you just did so jump it well as though here is the day you can do that i don't know how you don't just drive out of the temple have i don't know understand how anybody yet that we want to talk about side us joe biden is absolutely psyched about sign x. so now he's against your he added that's going to replace by com i hear i mean i would you miss your new alliance or write novels that would keep me up at night and bigger rated maybe we can guess what movies you know 90 and i'd say here is that that has no business that you know guy friends who are going to policy look me in the eye and look at kerry in the eye and tell me that nobody going to turn to any of your style no democratic operatives has the subject know when is common my hair

is going to replace job i tell me that has not been address tell me they hear me i have to say any white it ever has not talked about the vice president's fitness to lead in the advent of the president we talked about it was already very nice residence in the dawn of time someone you know your grandmother crowd here and i said you are not you know if you talk about 10 well i want you to tell me that you honestly would bet any amount of money that joe biden could continue his term if elected you are finished me saying that you really believe. we're going pretty far afield here ok i want to stay with the foreign policy or. laura what did you think of obama's foreign policy because it looks like it is going to be an echo about in potential new ministration so give us a score card for obama how long have you got i mean and listen i think it's complicated why don't we pick an area if you could narrow your question i'd happily

answer and i think you know but your to do i could say libya i think it's even and i well you know look it was the perfect absolutely not do i think we need us. cell rejection use of diplomatic aims use of an economic investments use of sanctions appropriately and and you know i don't think that he was a military interventionist the we didn't go to bronze go in we're caught i mean left was 7 so yeah i think he was nobody but his attempts to try to move troops and where he could certainly happen so i you know this is a i but i understand you have a completely different version of history about mosul you know so i don't i don't think i could have you know i'm shocked not just i voted version of it ok i think i said to you prior to this recording is that i'm equally hard on the democrats and the republicans equally hard on obama and on donald trump because i'm more interested in nonintervention and i'm very strongly end type of war and i think

a lot of miss opportunities we have experienced there and it happens under all it ministrations and that's why i go back to what i said earlier is that it doesn't really matter who is president because you're going to have a permanent democracy then min's in the fiona hill some people like that say the interagency consensus well i didn't vote for that you didn't in line will did ok and it seems to me and i will agree with what i know maybe i don't have the same kind of saurus delivery that lionel does but you know i'm a little bit worried about the guy you know if he got all his marbles because i see these people surrounding him and these people are bad people they made bad foreign policy decisions and they're still around. i mean listen you can't even if you say that you're against republicans and democrats equally but you only named the obama administration so it sounds like you guys the obama administration official with the ranee i don't think that was you know it was a good deal is

a good diplomatic deal and i thought the obama administration for not taking that as a starting point to start stabilizing the middle east it was a great opportunity to do that and i think truck was a fool to walk away from it so there i give you a good example. this and i didn't like the iraq you know and that's what obama and to don't give kudos of president obama he was rather are reluctant to do what his military advisors told him and the hawks regarding syria he could have done a lot more so he wasn't completely all in but let me just explain to me you are suggesting that we're going to abandon diplomatic negotiations had no manger who ever we're talking about military let me did let me just be very basic how do we explain to the war and now we're in all of these beasts is all over the world now i know this may be un-american to say they're going to give me i'm

going to do i do not read about this don't what gives the united states a right to go in and say we're going to tell country who they can speak with we're making deals is saudi arabia we have with our diplomatic schizophrenia is imperceptible to most people how does how do we tell anybody else you deal with this and by the way since we're so worried about the stability of the middle east did you hear peter and you hear a lot this notion of the kompany of cudos it was a wreck in terms of president regarding what's happening in the middle east not a word nothing it's just because it was a photo op i mean because it was a photo op that did not do not say that at 35. it's not that i'm not here now you just you've just you've just lost me company that's are just lucio day just as you know i don't think i was ever you cannot be serious you cannot know

. honestly come on anybody going forward and say you have sacked was photo what do i have to explain to you they history oh i know your his you know it sounds like you know you're a member. more and i know that you are and right now here we're rapidly rapidly running out of time here but i mean. don't you see this kind of continuing again kind of being non partisan here this continue being go back to george bush sr all the way to the present and it doesn't really it i am very frustrated you know you know there's plenty of data prototypically from the 2016 election that people are very against these wars these forever wars and trump talks about being against that but you know what he's president and he's and he's not succeeding under his watch ok and tells me something either is something is wrong with him or most likely or in addition to is that the permanent bureaucracy this is what we do for

a living you know we have the we have these arms producers we have 5000 bureaucrats in nato that need to keep their careers of very lucrative ones at that and all these alliances well it's just really good for the arms producers i mean that's a logic that is irrefutable it's just good business but it's bad for security go ahead so i just just to get its position me as odd as like quite frankly rhodes i don't hear that i'd like to get it. ever but oh i don't care about it so i just really do think that we can oversimplify best and i feel like this conversation has been through something rejection as in that way where we can resemble i did say intervention when i. had only rejection she was our own a master of oversimplification you've used every echo chamber troll since you idea you have well because it's in response and he has because i'm responding to

a question that says intervention or not intervention you can take out your thighs and beat you over the head with it but it does not mean there is there in secret at present the you sure that's not where my so you can think it cost me a litle and. you are right the one script for this argument that's not what we're talking about you're talking about you know well you are creative and i will give you know you're not going to act are action i'm still reacting to fomenting peace by god we're going to deliver a piece of them we're going to do it because that's what we you're that's our america i can't believe that and by the way ok well actually it's the 1st time in 10 years and no oh no i have no idea how to end this program but other than saying thank you laura i thank you lining for joining us here and i want to thank our viewers watching us here argue see you next i remember.

too that the bill really to sneer those who really can show you. their thank you just be suitably. proud that i suppose you noticed us they are so. you know none of us to be in a bow episodes didn't go to see you. sneer during your posts where you could being a must of missed if not thoughts about spirit i didn't do it was more sinister experiment done in the. stadia. shows to stress the scottish roots for you to post. to or to move.

to a story to listen to they were but it's. time after time corporations repeat the same mantra. sustainability it's very important to accelerate the transition to sustainable transport sustainability stay in her manner more equitable and sustainable world. they claim their production is completely harmless hollow do so. because. companies want us to feel good about buying their products while the damage is being done far away and this is something all this must be done to anyone and i mean look. this is the moves of news that we didn't dream and i'm going to be based on just good looks who is going to.

join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. being sent in the 4th of moscow's left in limbo between berlin on the international chemical weapons watchdog searches for any information on the alleged poisoning of alexina so far without success. we've been to the c.w. several times you've been they say talked about the beauty of. east german regions cry foul over a mugging called sing turning from the ears top brass to ditch the north stream to gas pipeline project while locals in a german port threatened with the us.