more than its receipts many are asking why don't we do we even collect this 3 charlie and taxes why don't we just like print money for everybody right it brings up a lot of questions you know one thing is that the deficit is fugit and it's more than one percent of g.d.p. in a suit for countries around the world and some play 20300 percent g.d.p. but what's creeping up now is the interest on that deficit even at these low low interest rates near 0 percent interest rates that interest cost on the deficit is getting close to america's outlay for the military which is their biggest expense so usually what happens when in fact the interest on the debt gets to a point where that also equals your g.d.p. as a country you are technically in default and you are officially no longer a country what is left is a memory of a country you know where at that point in the game you know a monopoly if you play monopoly there's always a point a game where you realize both somebody has a strategic amount of property on the board and they're going to win in the what the only thing left for us to do is to kind of march toward the inevitable of

losing and this is the problem now with this economy in the u.s. the game of the u.s. is now over because there is no path out there is no escape from the toxic debt there is no recovery at this point there's only how to manage the loss it's going to be economic collapse with honor if richard nixon were in charge and this were to be the ms ation of the economy how do we honorably fail of course on this debt the deficit gets added to the national debt every year like you know i remember when it 1st hit a trillion dollars and we were like wow and then it hit 10 trillion dollars somewhere and then now it's like $2530.00 china is just like escalating so rapidly and who knows like the whole time when i 1st had a trillion people were shocked and scared and then when it hit 10 trillion people like oh my god this can't last and then they hit 20 trillion and at 25 trillion and you know. and i get to

a quadrillion and the world continue as it is but if feels like you know if you're comparing it to the game of monopoly that somebody is cheating and somebody is getting free goods and services and rental income and things like that right the dice are loaded and when the bankers roll the dice they somehow always pascoe collect free money and get another property when everyone else rolls the dice somehow they end up prison and so that's the way this game is played and that's why the wealth and income gap. exploded polarization and the social unrest in america hasn't been this bad i think it's worse than the vietnam war it's you got to go back to the civil war to find social unrest as bad in america as it is today well you talked about you know you get it another property on this monopoly board you get handed that gifted that well this is really playing out in the covert economy the covert reality where the commercial real estate sector is collapsing of

course our elected representatives are coming to the rescue of this commercial mortgage backed securities and stuff like that but you know look at this data it just seems like with this game of monopoly if our game of monopoly of our fee out money and all this free money is based around the solution of the monopoly board and all the commercial real estate well here's another plank like if if if people are just like scratching out part of the board that this doesn't exist anymore what do you have left but a pile of cash an entire asset class redefined almost overnight by coded work from home total value of all u.s. commercial real estate is 16 trillion dollars now entering largest bear market since late eighty's 50 percent price drop wipes out $8.00 trillion dollars major economic drag knock on effects huge rate stays here 0 percent plus gold coin is what downtown piro is recommending so here's the commercial real estate demand collapses the crashing line is the plans to expand and the office space right that

goes back to my comment at the top of the show the economics and economies are engineer they're built it's a madman construct and in the us you have at the core of the economy of property and commercial property in the us mostly what banks lend against and this is the pyramid if you will of not necessarily a pyramid scheme but it is a pyramid like structure and if you pull out the bottom and you have covert economy and suddenly all the commercial property is suspect and maybe not. worth $0.10 on the dollar then the entire pyramid will collapse just as a function of physics as a function of engineering bets what will happen to thinking about also properties being handed out like candy if you're in the right class let's take a look according to the most recent information the us government is going to hand tick tock a chinese company to larry ellison over oracle the why why is larry ellison being gifted a multi-billion dollar gift like this for what reason why is that happening he's

not giving it to the american people the president i states he's not engineering some dividend for us he's simply giving this huge asset to one of his friends ok that's not the way economics is supposed to work unless it's corrupt larry ellison gets handed. down says tick tock we don't know if that's actually going to go through if the the secret sauce of the artificial intelligence which is i think what everybody wants a certainly in the united states certainly the intelligence agencies and stuff like that want whether or not china will allow it who knows but you know speaking of you know free money and free stuff is i read a remarkable statistic is that we know that 75 percent of americans who have to work for a living that they're making more money they made more money since the covert crisis because of the $600.00 extra and hants unemployment benefits that they

receive per week now that has cause a knock on effect of a huge collapse in the number of defaults on used car loans so that's a positive it's kind of like a jubilee but also they said 20 percent of americans have doubled their income under cove it would ever forget the pandemic and the situation there but as we head into an election who is in their right mind of those 20 percent who have doubled their income on this monopoly board called america. who is going to say well you know my income doubled under trump but i'm going to vote for the other guy who have never seen because he sits in the basement all day like it just seems like this is going to be a spanner in the in the biden works that is just not being discussed it seems remarkable to fee doubling your income and yet getting to stay home yeah i think

that's certainly the numbers would bear that out that people would not vote against that and the other thing is that this is them an open experiment into a universal basic income yeah right so this is america gets to see what happens if you apply universal basic income and you get to see how it impacts society is it incentive or is it does it dnssec devised work and we may find that this is the permanent feature going forward and also that doubling of the income shows that the folks that were living under a basic living wage those folks that were the working poor who were let's say working at wal-mart the weakest employer in america but still needing government relief that in other words wal-mart got the government to subsidize their wages being that they had to pay so those questions are now i think going to have to be resolved as a result of this incredible experiment in universal basic income in america that we can now have some data to figure out how to go forward and the other thing of

course is that you know when we made front running. a year ago you know at the late november early december we were presenting things like that that were being presented by candidates like bernie sanders as very radical left wing ideas and we even said that you know these might come in these obviously are going to happen now but maybe in a decade or 2 as generation z. and millennial become more powerful but like within a few months. you know donald trump who we are told is a super fascist and super right wing is bringing in these radical left wing policies so she's it he's interesting in that he exposes so much of the contradictions and us elite society and he forces their hand like this next story as well nearly 300 homeless men who had been temporarily living in a hotel on the upper west side of manhattan will be relocated after weeks of

backlash from some residents who said the man had diminished the quality of life in the upscale neighborhood upper west side you know this is democratic heartland this is the elite democratic heartland this is the rachel maddow and this is the enderson coopers this is the hillary clinton's of the world these are that sort of corporate dam and here they're they they don't want these dirty stinky poor people in their neighborhood that they're fine for it you know this sort of stuff to happen and everybody else is they're the ones that passed laws are the ones that passed tax increases for all sorts of policies that they don't want in their own backyard right what would we make zabar's an institution on the upper west side where you get some nice lovely food and but that would be a problem as you point out one of the caught nimbyism not my backyard right so the policy is sound great on paper but people don't actually want to live with them or

they want to they figure that their immune from actually living of the consequences of what they support and so i suppose that they're going to take those to folks and move them into east hampton and then they can live in the hamptons for a while and see how that goes. but you could look at this through the entire spectrum. you know with their foreign policy the neo conservatives are mostly democrats right originally so all the neo cons that ruled under george bush and they had their foreign policy was a. in iraq invasion of her. ran of eventually yemen all those sort of countries that was their plan but they all started out as democrats and then they became republicans because they couldn't stand the left wing of the of the democratic party so like this is something that is we're still trying to reconcile that comes that happens during $68.00 it happens all the time and that and the democratic side but it's it's around this tension around. in our imperialism and this monopoly

board like who do you want a homeless you know homeless people staying in the hotel that you own that because the government makes you because of the pandemic. in a market that's or was a bit of a test of all person but she did say that probably socialism is that eventually run out of other people's money i think heading at that situation in the united states going to take a break and when we come back much more coming you know why i. to

get the bill really kiss near those who really can show you. show that they can just be suitably. stood. out with that are supposed to stop us they are so. no no no to strip him of the episodes do no good to see you sure do. you slither in your force where you could be near must of mystery if not thoughts about spirits i didn't do it was more sinister experiment done in the. stadia crew

will. show. for you to post here to a post to move to. a story queue they were but what is. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation let it be an arms race based on off and spearing dramatic bad to follow the only closely i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk. time after time called parishioners repeat the same mantra sustainability it's very important to accelerate the transition to sustainable transport sustainability sustainable amana a more equitable and sustainable well. they claim their production is completely

hamas followed. it. companies want us to feel good about buying their products while the damage is being done far away and this is something i'll do. let's get on done immanence i'm really in love. with the mills and news limited on the name and i'm stunned seemed on the best understood look to what is going in. the world is driven by shaped by the personal those with. the dares thinks. we dare to ask.

welcome back to the kaiser report imax keyser time now to turn to author and economist dr michael had said dr watson welcome back to be back max. well let's wait we lost a mutual friend david graber author of debt the 1st 5000 years why did david matter i know you were friends with them what are his contributions to our understanding of money he realized that most money is debt and that money was created not as part of the barter process not by merchants but money was created to pay debts starting with debts that people owed the temples and the palaces of the ancient near east and to buy services and goods from the palaces and temples. the end of every

crop year. people had to pay for the beer that they drunk during the year the agricultural inputs and most payments are made only once a year so when you do a transaction money wasn't involved at all because you only had money once a year if you were a total of $8.00 or as and you'd wait until the harvest and you'd sign a contract and when you would go to the local bar and have some ale and we have a contract they would say well it's the end of the year you're going to pay your tab. on the threshing floor and when your grain is all measured out that you harvested we're going to take the payment that you owe is debt and we're going to take it and every. bushel of grain that you pay is equal to $1.00

shekel of silver so the sober also had to be paid you know once. ok janelle a if the end of a 5 year trading venture. or. goods and services or money that the palace or the temples consent so that graber emphasized by emphasizing debt issue that money was really for paying debt it wasn't part of the part where assessed it wasn't what the austrians. economists and the creditors said at all it was part of a fiscal policy in that debts were owed to the state and that's why it was possible for the rulers of mesopotamia to cancel the debts because they were cancelling duster themselves initially old mainly the cells and the palace collectors so it became much harder in rome and equate in the modern times when today debts are owed by the. own to the banks and to the one

percent and so david's main emphasis in discussing money was to explain why a debt cancellation which was his main objective was going to work had worked out for many years in mesopotamia and his that debt the 1st 5000 years especially. followed the arguments that i'd been making in an academic setting in my harvard university colloquium and we had long discussions maybe 15 years ago and i didn't think anybody was going to be interested in debt an end mesopotamian the origins of debt money and tell i could make the point that the day had to be cancelled and david said no if given the long perspective let me write up your ideas is a popular book and i was. pleasantly amazed to say how

popular is caught on and he expressed the debt issue in a monetary issue not in abstract academic theory but in terms. well. his own personal experience is an anthropologist in terms of the anthropology of death and people could accept the idea a bit cancelation much more readily when you're talking about an anthropological tribe it. meant a guest star or somewhere or when you're talking about mesopotamia so just as shakespeare would put his own political plays in italy or illyria or somewhere else instead of in england where it would have been highly political david was able to make his point about insulation and money in terms of anthropology imagine something there i want to return to it so here you are talking about the origins of money is debt and the debt was

ok came from government essentially and that gave the government and the opportunity to cancel debt when it whenever it was prudent or necessity to do for example during debt jubilees lend when they based the central authority would counsel debt and then you mentioned that. our modern era really is about debt being created by the private banks and of course a central bank as a private bank and that is brought on a whole new era. where debt is used in a much different way than simply fueling the economy it seems as though private debt from banks and central banks is you is in in the greater interest of those few banks that are a showing that debt versus let's say government issued debt going back to david

grabbers work what seem to be more in the interest of society at large ersatz the problem is how. the rulers of mesopotamia had to take into account overall society which if they would have let had the debt be paid then the farmers the peasants the cultivators would have lost their liberty they would have had to do their labor to the creditors they would have had to become bum servants as you read about in the bible and if you become bon servants then you lose your liberty you lose the land because you forfeit that as collateral to the creditors and the result is what would what would they do if they're going to be on service or losing their land they would surely to another truck they would leave. and then the country the ruler that let its

creditors take over society would find all of a sudden it's depopulated well just like the greeks who left greece after the european union bankrupt it just fizzle up all ticked let the last one 3rd of its population since it got independent 9091 people are leaving because it's a society that doesn't work well right now you're having a similar phenomenon in the united states you're having every since 2009 you had obama say we're not going to cancel the debts we're going to pretend to cancel them but we're not. really going to we're going to let my campaign banker backers of the bakers kick 10000000 factory families off their out of their houses we're going to make them homeless and that same justice that same extro creation of debtors occurred after 2009 we're seeing and eminent similar

expropriation right today in the middle of the coronavirus. families who are lose their jobs are unable to pay their rents and either their landlords or the faulting owner if they have a job and bought a house with a mortgage they're unable to pay the mortgage and there is going to be a new wave of foreclosures of homeless people but unlike sooner and babylonians and unlike greeks who can move to germany and europe where are the americans who are exposed rated going to go if you had the egyptians in antiquity say well if we don't cancel the debts then our people are going to defect to the enemy but who's the enemy today no no americans and the defect that russian and china because americans aren't they are speaking in foreign language where can they go so. the dynamic is the same today as it has been for

5000 years that was david's main or main point but the way in which it's handled is different in. ancient society they wouldn't let the creditor interests destroy society it populate it and polarize society between creditors and debtors but today we don't have that ethic anymore today we let society polarized between the one percent at the top who old the 99 percent in debt and oh the other one percent is what they can extract in debt service. in financial fees and rents and toting monopoly rents from the 99 percent so you're having a whole failure not only of it's the whole way in which western civilization has been going since. roman times. but a failure of the 19th century to really get rid of land where it chipped to really

turn industrial capitalism into socialized industrial capitalism where the banks are run. in. order to promote economic growth and living standards instead of destroying economic growth and living standards so we have somehow industrial capitalism and the whole ethic of adam smith john stuart mill march thorstein veblen has all been defeated and we have the ethic of margaret thatcher and ronald reagan and donald trump and obama right so you and david arguing in favor of state run debt versus private bankers running the debt well you don't need a state run economy in order to solve the debt problem i don't think adam smith and the classical economists advocated a state run economy they advocated

a different kind of rule they said that 1st of all land the rent of land should be taken into the public sector john stuart mill and adam smith said that the land of the taxes should be levied on land and on an wells not on labor not on industry so that's simply the tax system and then later in the 19th century people said well we need other banks to be part of the government sector if the government is the creditor the government doesn't have to control it kind of makes but normally the creditor decide the banks so whether it's the creditors as a private banker or as a government aid. it's 8 like the new deal agencies under roosevelt the bankers and creditors decide who's going to get the credit and order they're going to get the credit for and all you need is to control the credit system when you can steal your credit in a in a. private sector capitalist economy into the most productive sectors but that's

not what's happening now in the 19th century everybody. expected banking to evolve like it wasn't and germany's banks would be making would be industrialized finance to be industrialized to finance industrial growth and real means of production but instead after world war one head industry being financial. and the financial sector the banks don't lend to build factories they don't build for capital accumulation they lend against capital and assets that are already in place well basically look for what they can foreclose on not how they can add to living standards and target means of production profits kyra soured a 2nd segment learning a lot here thanks for being on the show dr michael hudson as if this episode of guys report with me my back's kaiser stacy herbut i think our guest dr michael

hudson and so i stand by i'll. move move move move move that the vote really to sneer those who really can surely if. they can just be suitably. left with their supposed home notice to us they saw that. no numbers stupina blow up research didn't go to see sheesh q you're the. slayer during the air force where you could be near my stubbornness today if not thoughts about spirit i didn't do it was a morsel 6 been thrown in there or. if de gea crew will. show

schulman's for you to post here top up ice so to move. the story list so they will but what is. democracy is juventus mystically not international scene efforts by international organizations and governments to promote democracy in countries like iraq afghanistan we see how difficult it is ultimately it has to be reduced domestically because always international actors need to be in a country $24.00 seventh's make it sustainable so any country in the world that's built a sustainable democracy is built to mystic the sometimes of its national health mystically. a new gold rush is underway in guyana thousands of ill equipped workers are flocking to the gold fields hoping to strike it rich. as they oh by those

that work children are torn between galled. my family was very poor i thought i was dream i best get back to school which side will have the strongest appeal. europe scrambles to deal with corona virus cases with spain becoming the latest nation to reimpose. also new restrictions ahead of the flu season. for these german regions involved in the wall street gas pipeline project rejected mounting calls to scrap it as locals in one. threatened with u.s. sanctions over the russia strike a defiant tone.