have a country it is a catastrophe civil war proxy war coronavirus islam is tara from syria that alone the drowning of those seeking asylum only this week and now compounded by bitter political strife in tripoli's u.n. backed government joining me now via skype from rome is acting special representative and head of the united nations support mission in libya 70 turco williams 70 we're going to going underground before i ask anything about the political situation obviously people are going to want to know how coronavirus is obviously impacting hard on britain where the highest per capita or death rate how is it affecting libya which is obviously the subject of civil strife and a proxy war well the coronavirus situation in libya is quite so worrying you know we we believe that it is spiraling out of control in the country the number of confirmed cases is close to or at 25000 today which over something like a lab and 1000 cases are active and there are nearly 400 deaths that have been

recorded housing hungary figures how are they getting the figures given that it's libya is itself divided into 2 or 3 countries i'm not sure defacto so we are so that the figures are produced you know by the authorities w.h.o. works across the country it is you're right there are divided institutions but w.h.o. is a lead said a nationwide response and liaises directly with the different institutions the ministries of health and their national committee that is in charge of the covert response but you're right i mean we do believe that the pandemic in terms of the numbers is there is underestimated and this is because there are also things like there are persistent shortages and testing capabilities of course you know the health care system has been devastated over the last 9 years beset by you know can't for. you know infrastructure deterioration and that has meant that you know

it's sort of helps crippled the response the humanitarian agencies are working in these very sort of difficult circumstances we also of course salute the very courageous libyan health care workers who are on the front line. and and and you know the focus needs to be on prevention and and also in terms of frankly the government response east and west you know ensuring that the funding that has been allocated you know goes goes through the right channels and into the health care system well post conflict funding. is always being no god traversal i mean in libya had one of the best health care systems in the world certainly the best in africa under gadhafi what is the situation in libya 9 years after david cameron was telling us here in britain that this was

a victory that nato had secured to overthrow the good afy government i mean explain how there's a west and an east and how there may be elections and why the prime minister might be resigning right so i mean it's no secret that libya experienced incredible fragmentation following the revolution and fragmentation chaos and division. and sort of a continuing series of wars and conflict and unfortunately. unabated blatant foreign interference in the country and so. it has been seen as foreign interference in by britain in the country i mean foreign interference after the aerial bombardment of libya by britain yes there is there is you know foreign intervention has been a think so it in any other. fortunately continues to this day now where where are

we given you know the the past 9 years what are we looking at now. we are looking at a country that where that where the situation is just not sustain the military options has been used in libya and it hasn't worked quite clearly. there is no one party that can militarily conquer libya and assumed power through the gut. the economic tool is not working or oil blockades do not work they only lead to increasing immiseration of the population and that's what we're seeing now so it is not therefore very surprising that libyans are going to the streets in the midst of a global pandemic to express their frustrations to to demonstrate against you know institutions and governments that are simply not delivering services not not

providing for their citizens but he was in fact to mention not to mention the rampant sort of corruption so this princess to you know we've tried so the military tools been tried the economic tool has been tried as a work so what's left in the tool chest dialogue political dialogue and you asked me about. jenny president siraj announcement that he intends to hand power over to a new executive authority at the end of october i think that this is quite a courageous decision that mr soros has taken it's also an indication that you know real change is needed we've seen over the last sort of 4 or 5 months a constituency of change emerge in the country and that is why we believe that it's time in short order within the next month to resume. under un our auspices

of fully inclusive political dialogue i mean we only hear really about libya in nato nation media because of the refugee crisis and refugees drowning only in the past few days 123 drowned in the mediterranean off the shores i mean is it your experience and i have to say president obama has regretted intervention in libya or at least made some announcement to that effect in other open air slave markets in libya his eyes his day a ship coming from syria in libya it's only about a year ago that the united states was bombing libya to try and get rid of isis tash so look. what you had in libya yes this is an overall deterioration of the security situation as it's been persistent but it you know it is nevertheless quite alarming you have a country where the borders cannot be secured so yes i mean and by the way you have

the influx now of mr you know about some weapons coming in because of the foreign interference any foreign sponsors of the conflict are pouring weapons and chill country which by the way is already awash in weapons you know libya doesn't need more weapons so and if these weapons fall into the wrong hands yes indeed libya is and will continue to pose a threat to then the neighboring countries and and the wider mediterranean region so and you asked about the situation of refugees migrants trafficking. yes indeed that is a huge problem and these human rights abuses and the treatment of refugees migrants and asylum seekers you know as as well as by the way other very vulnerable population groups including internally displaced. or maybe

a there are over 400000 libyans who had to flee their homes so i mean this is for one crisis compounds the other and we heard it described once has a good daffy running libya and it was africa's richest per capita nation the removal by nato of gadhafi was like the removal of a cork and this refugee crisis migration crisis has been. an effect of that nato bombardment is that your understanding well i'd look there were refugees and migrants but do you have prior to the revolution there was there were there was trafficking that was occurring prior existence very loose in a time to thousands there were tens of thousands of people. in the mediterranean the scale right and like for instance this year we've seen over more than 8400 migrants and refugees have been intercepted at sea and returned to libya just this year and many have been placed into detention there are of course women and

children and those very vulnerable population 5 and something like 454 migrants are refugees were intercepted and returned and and you know that's. that's a huge challenge for our humanitarian agencies is one problem you face and i know that their boss of the u.n. political mission doesn't salami quit this year according to some sources because of stress isn't one problem you face that security council members russia and china they just don't trust any western elements in libya in fact i'll give you the global south as well they don't want any of the former colonial power i know you're speaking to me from rome they don't want anyone else because they don't trust the motives of those who sought to destroy gadhafi is libya. well i mean you know i

think you'd have to ask those member states what i observed is that hope for it's a united security council when it comes to the solutions for libya the libyan people need to stay need to hear that the international community is joining hands together to help them overcome their traditions to help them rebuild their country to help them bring their country back you know it it has the largest oil reserves in africa it has a a beautiful coastline it has a small population well educated you know there's there's no reason why libyans can't come together to just forge a much brighter future for their country but they need the international community also to come together to help them in this regard acting in special representative thank you. after the break history repeating itself we look back at another mass

movement of people fleeing war with the claimed actor julian sands his new film the painted bird explores the horrors experienced by persecuted people in world war 2 through the eyes of a child all of them are going to have a bunch of going on the ground.

to move in domestically no internationally seen efforts by international can eyes ations and governments to promote democracy in countries like iraq afghanistan see how difficult it is also with us to be reduced to mystically because always international actors need to be in the country 24 seventh's make it sustainable so any country in the world that's just the standard democracy has to mystic sometimes of international help to mystically. with both. of

us. last time we chased. each one of them carrying 20 kilos 'd of drugs. first offense. they just stepped right. into the fray and we have maintained all morning they they have this is the this is for me. it's me. i don't know don't they don't make or. break right. now what.

welcome back in part one we heard from the u.n. in libya about the plight of what was once africa's richest but capital a nation led by moammar gadhafi the nature of war and it is supported by the conservative liberal democrat coalition and backed by the u.k. labor party arguably catalyzed not only the destruction of that country but a refugee crisis that still kills scores in the mediterranean a new film the painted bird deals with a very different refugee crisis that of jews fleeing persecution during the 2nd world war and depicts the unspeakable horrors inflicted on a young boy attempting to return to his family something that apparently led to mass walkouts at film festivals in venice and toronto the film is out now and going underground deputy editor charlie cook spoke to one of the film's leads acclaimed actor julian sense. judy and thank you sandra coming on going underground to start by telling me about

the painted by well the paines it does a film based on jesse kaczynski is 1960 s. novel it is an odyssey it tells a story of a boy looking for his family through the hinterland a recent europe. twilight the 2nd world war and its story is told through a series of and kansas with different people who represent different aspects of our glorious humanity but going to be. just a boy band rouge national spot. to hold the go meatless that. my character plays i play a pharma and in that tiny community see the priest

of the community. played by harvey keitel tell who is one of my clients as moonshine i make hooch spirits in the woods who is ailing has taken the boy and he has rescued him from the nazis who were going to kill him but adi ask if i may take care of the boy because i can use a hand on the farm and the priest allows me to do this but my character is not sympathetic to the boy he abuses him he doesn't represent what i might call goodness he is the west kind of narcissist. i can't say i enjoyed playing him but i enjoyed the experience because i contributed something to this. rather important must

work in my view i wanted to ask if you saw the film as kind of a nihilistic walk because a lot of people have mentioned that there doesn't seem to take a side especially in your specific story you know a kind of pad with a godly cat and seems almost powerless in the face of what seems like evil well i don't think it's nihilistic and that the point of view of the storyteller the direct as a cipher for kaczynski is an observer and it's like looking at kiran and. picasso is great in a painting made after the bombing of the town in the spanish civil war or the the paintings the drawings and images created by god in response to early a conflict between the french and spanish aromas baulch. crazing sort of his

version of hell on earth i mean it's an observation i don't think it seeks to be nihilistic you 9 understanding of the woods did you read the novel before you took part in the film as a kind of respond i think i read the novel when i was at drama school in the late 1970 s. when vance love model sent me the script and he sent me the script from my chair but he sent me images. of what he'd already shot he was shooting it in chronological order because he wanted the boy said to physically grow during the film and he showed it over 2 to 3 years so the risk the boy does physically change vaslav had seen me in the czech republic when i did a presentation of a show i've been touring about peril pinta it's called a celebration of americans or something john malkovich and i devised together and.

well originally with harold and he had seen that and i think that's why he wanted me to play this this character i think was shot in november almost 2 years ago. in something bohemia and the little farmhouse they found as the location was a deeply creepy place it fell but in a axis act by reacting so that environment and that location gave me a great deal to to work with you know in the 1st of this program we've spoken to someone from the u.n. in libya and you mention the horrors inflicted on this child is a wider point about the horrors inflicted on civilians fleeing war that this film can illustrate charlie i think is very contemporary and that and that because there's no nothing is glamorized in this it's a very hard and unflinching unswerving observation of

this boy's story was absolutely it relates to many situations and areas of the world today and some of them very close to the united northwest europe where we are living so comfortably in spite of. covert and economic hardships compared to what these people are suffering. you know it we're in paradise also on that point is the film's not just about the suffering of the child but also the racism and kind of like the creeping suspicion ifill's which is also something faced by migrants i was aware of it when i saw the film within my chat it's quite clear that the congregation very suspicious of is this far and it's not over it's not a state whether he's jewish whether he's a gypsy i mean in my chapter it becomes clear at the end of the film but these are

phobia towards the resentment of his presence is very clear and very troubling merits of mankind as this film yeah and i actually want to talk about the kind of the location in that the national asked i don't because the language in the film is into slavic which meant specifically to not tie it to any specific national identity to find that challenge to walk in that language there were many challenges the language was simple i have quite a good a for donna. and i was i was able to learn it. somewhere is that speaking in that dialogue. word has allowed me to get further away from myself and as it were yeah i just want to talk about the film's lineage in

a way because it seems to draw on like fellini's rhyme i can say to me come and say in fact one of that doesn't come and they have to pay is in this film unlike a very deliberately no yes i'm told in kosovo and films let's talk about talking to be aware that lineage going into it certainly. aware of the cost ski and influence on. us love because in the conversation he came up and i think it not until i saw the film at venice was i fully aware of how it was in some ways part of the international cinema of which includes the material the material you're you've referred to the speaking event as not of the discussion around this film in the press has been about some who walk out venice and in places like toronto your costar stands cause god said that it's absolutely necessary to be controversial when making films that you gave

that sentiment in the context of the all caps i don't think is necessary to be controversial i don't think any sense actually controversial although both sal and i and i have been in film thems which have been considered controversial i think that it doesn't pull its punches and it doesn't sort of soften the blow to the impact of the dreadful things which are visited this boy being 3 hours being black and white it's very very intense and it's difficult to watch so i'm sympathetic if somebody wants to walk out and get some fresh air and then come back you know not come back and but in terms of the reporting of the walkouts i think that was a journalist's story he was looking for an airing goal to create some cocky controversy prison so it is sort of banal but if there is a real intellectual moral. con sense

which is worthy of debate and is difficult to absorb and i think that's very legitimacy. you obviously famously in the killing fields about another movie that deals with cat genocide and some of the things to think your perspective towards these kind of horrors that changed well in the killing fields was made in 1983 and i was i think i was 23 or 4 at the time and i'd never been east of. listen to be nice to walk thing but no so far eastern to go to thailand to visit the refugee camps tolerate come podium bordeaux's which were being pretty troubled we weren't filming that but it was part of the research. we did before filming

commenced and these these camps were clearly patrolled by come i rish cutlery and to be in such close proximity so this sort of monstrousness was chilling. disturbing and illuminating i don't think there's been a period since then when it during any given year one hasn't had to revisit and observe such conditions and ass issues from people i mean the breaks debate in. britain was the most appalling revelation in my view of the very scenes which we're not discussing just finally you mentioned pen to rally i just would like to know what your message be to politicians and maybe thinking about saving thing to saving then he's kind of funding the arts or in the current virus well i think it's absolutely imperative.

you know if it seems to be considered just. another area of employment or is in fact it should be elevated to national treasure status because it is they embodiment of the interest tegra the city and cultural property of. the united kingdom that somehow i think there are many maybe there's a view that politicians are like see that it disappear because you know it may have lost some of its teeth as a petri dish of protest and revolt but it's such an important element in all our lives even for people for people who don't go to the theatre so much is generated by that and it seems. to salute. abdication of responsibility that more hasn't been done faces the need

in this shooting and committed help to endure oh thank you so much. thank you john julian sounds they're speaking to going on the ground up you have charlie cook and the painted but is available in select cinemas in the u.k. now and on the market that's if the show will be back on monday until then join the underground by calling us on twitter facebook you tube instagram and. a new gold rush is underway in guyana thousands of ill equipped workers are flocking to the gold fields hoping to strike it rich here's the book. as they are part of that work children are torn between galled. my family was very poor i thought i was doing my best to get back to school which side will have the

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the story keep lists if they were bogus. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crew. he's a fool for a day shouldn't let it be an arms race in his own often spearing dramatic development only personally i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical of god i'm timed to sit down and talk. time after time called parishioners repeat the same mantra sustainability it's very important. transitions to sustainable transport sustainability stay in her manner a more equitable and sustainable well. they claim their production is completely harmless. it's a compass in the models and it. companies want us to feel good about buying their

products while the damage is being done far away and this is something else this must be going to an even and i mean look. this is the mood stimulus and we didn't even and i'm stunned seemed to understand it looks so good in the. return of the restrictions countries in europe begin to limit liberties as surging kogut infections make an unwelcome reappearance. also this hour making a stand german region spring to the defense of the north stream tear gas pipeline project for russia despite calls to scrap it amid the fallout from the ball in the case local strike a defiant tone. i don't find it very nice that they're trying to tell us what to do for you it's really shameless.