same mantra sustainability very important to accelerate the transition to sustainable transport sustainability remand him more equitable and sustainable well . they claim their production is completely harmless. it does not the present companies want us to feel good about buying their products while the damage is being done far away and this is something else this must keep going to mean and i'm. mean listen we didn't dream and then we understood so when in.

a low in wealth in the crosstalk we're all things are considered i'm peter lobo on this edition of the program we discussed the passing of the 2 towering figures so breme court justice ruth bader ginsburg and america's preeminent russian expert steven cohen both will be remembered for good reasons their legacies assures. you discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest glenn he's in and also he is an associate professor at the university of south used to norway as well as author of russia's geo economic strategy for a greater eurasia and in budapest we crossed to george samueli he is the author of bombs for peace nato's humanitarian war on yugoslavia generally rules and the. that

music and johnny young you want and i don't appreciate what is going to it's going to george in budapest a george of course and be the biggest news right now is the passage job just as ginsburg and what's going to happen next and on this program i really don't want to big or about the procedure of it all of you know it is inappropriate for trying to do this in the past it's been argued that a right before an election you know election year you should do that if there's a bacon say you can go back and forth you know and all sides have changed their mind ok and they're all eating their words and i can leave that aside and talk about the state of the court because you know not too many years ago i think george and i would probably remember pretty well you know them being born just as bork was a confirmation and prior to his nomination it was advice and consent is the person a jurist a good jurist it had nothing to do with politics now it has everything to do with

politics and that was posed to be the one branch that wasn't supposed to be infected by politics it was about interpretating the constitution as the founders laid it down we're losing that we've even lost it i would argue go ahead george. yes you're absolutely right peter but i think the court has itself to blame for that because it waded into politics it waded into politics a long time ago and i mean part of it the blame also rests with the politicians who prefer not to take. serious political legislative decisions and is that the left things to the courts and so all of the major rulings in the process last live past 50 years have been decided by the courts which is an unelected body and so therefore the stakes became ever higher when you think of all of the big rulings in the united states you know the school prayer

ruling that these will be decided instead the courts weighted in happily. and after all as the years went by the fights over who would stop the courts became ever more bitter. and so than that and that why we're here and where we are which is here is a liberal justice ruth bader ginsburg consistently votes with the liberals is now dead has a conservative president and a conservative ruled senate so now because the stakes are very high that's why the fight is going to be extremely better as they were in the case of camelot because there was a swing vote kennedy who was replaced by a conservative so you know it's a game the courts are to blame for this and of course the irresponsible politicians have landed that this is really in this is about the. the growing illegitimacy of

institutions and it's been creeping along george has pointed out here how it's been politicized and i'd like to point out here that's how the left is only this is really neat only the way the left has got its agenda through is through the courts here and that's what's given conservatives it's almost an existential. imperative now because when they see all of these major social legislation come into effect through the court not through congress here and this is why conservatives are up in arms and will definitely vote ok even though i would say gore should or should seek and. haven't really met expectations nonetheless this is going to motivate people. will agree with that because this seems very much like a symptom of why they're. moving the country so i think that either country conflicts important because there's not just of course we see you know

a lot of the democratic institutions in the u.s. are coming on the greater and greater stress so we see them crossed in to meet us or in the who seems just more all seem more like mouthpiece all the rest a little party's. if you are and there are no dollars and you have a congress with ridiculous lelo support and most likely will see the presidential election election someone disputing the legitimacy of the outcome a matter of who wins. the fail to recognize that this 3rd branch of power which is the supreme court. has for a long time been a problem that polarizes so much i think in the last few years and this does that escalate and then more and more with the conservatives block garland is you know or the argument that. barack obama was a lame duck president. is a result of it it's been clear with our viewers there the argument was that if the senate and the president were in different in different parties that was

mcconnell's explanation here ok yes and no i mean that's just in his explanation he has the power to do it it's not the law it's not written in the constitution it is basically is rule ok so i keep going to here every month because they belong to karl and. this led to a let me let go legitimacy for the ogre search which was put in by chung and then the democrats tried to block as i remember brett kavanaugh 2 years ago in well what i would call a very despicable effort to smear him in the most awful way so is all the conservatives arguers now is to change the rules to some extent change the rule of the game and they will push for an out against her back even though the lection is promotion around the corner but as you point out is there's no specific rules as they think of the county other but again this is just shows us keeps escalating and it is again who knows what happens next summer you are going in with the democrats think power should simply add to more seats to the supreme court or watered down

conservative presence so i guess again this is for a while how i see its consequences of the us is your shins fragment to go well the 2 major political parties still see each other as artist working for the same team or more this each other. benami undermining this you know soul of the country and when you are in a war you're much everything's permitted which is why i say it is rulebook more and more being all torn away or are or of this looking for alternative ways of doing it now i just thought oh and one last point which is i think the. supreme court is more vulnerable to police us ation than others because again this is where liberals and conservatives deviate goes for conservatives so you would see that the future has to be informed by the present or the past. and liberals' deceit of the past and stop struct. what it means to change so that's why the conservatives sense to say you have to interpret gold see will excite that was written then we follow this it

has to build on this excited writings while the liberals say no you have to interpret it the spirit of it and what the spirit is is of course their whole and most ideology so you see in the course very much. logical error. or political even though it's close to being neutral yeah it is but in particular you can't get your agenda across through the ballot box here george i mean one of the most corrupt the elements which the court allowed was citizens united and and if you look at the the the the implication that is that you have you have politicians that are appointed by special interests and joe owners and so those politicians will look to the court in keeping in mind they are joe nurse and what they want ok and so they're going to be looking at the political coloration of a of a nominee they're not going to be looking at advice and instead they're not be looking at competence you know they're going to the donors are going to get what

they want because that's why they consider affairs and congressmen there and now you're supposed to you know all the all the regulations and any time you go to the supreme court and in this keep let's keep in mind the supreme court you know well everyone's arguing all the time about you know they're going to resent. really. versus wade you know it's basically the supreme court is a very friendly to me chamber of commerce always and that doesn't get a lot of coverage ok and that's why these politicians are very very worried that someone's going to come in and say you know something like the citizens united is is inherently corrupting of politics go ahead yes well that's the thing that the politicians have found a nice way of avoiding or could vote and this is this is really being the case now or really ever since the days of the warren court. if they could just

simply hide behind the supreme court to say well ok i mean whatever whatever i think that's the way the supreme court has ruled and that said no so i had my vote doesn't have to go on the record and this is a great get out clause flow all politicians and. so this we didn't particularly conservatives i would say ok if we think it's a woman's work and i don't yeah that's it and so also all of these are big decisions when you think of you know whether of the on the social issues you think of. very much a gay marriage not one of them has ever been decided by a legislature because. and in fact the few votes that have taken place in legislature particularly on abortion or of course rolled out by saying i hate the super eagles rule row v wade is the law of the land that's a you're out you're out of luck and now this is this goes on all the time in america where you have judges we don't know necessarily the supreme court but

federal judges they don't like trumps all is the only big ration so they are making issue a ruling that saves like an unelected judge just as i said in self that this is unconstitutional and that's an excellent decision made by the elected president is then nolen roy as they go up to the circuit court of appeals defending their what the political makeup of the circuit court of appeals is that they will buy the rule for the case but and again people become very shrewd about if they go the 9th circuit that's generally tends to be liberal let's go do this in the 9th circuit on the 9th circuit rules. against the president not come because. of the legal merits because of politics but you know then it's because of the brink of war and then again the decision is largely made on you know well this is the way the conservatives were those who were the liberals so what you now have and that would be fine if you had your votes by people who are elected to represent the people but these are all unelected judges so the most important questions in america now

decided by unelected judges and that really is a very very situation in the last 45 seconds that glenn here is just in we've been talking about how the supreme court decides the most important issues the. may decide the election and if there's only 4 justices oh i can't even imagine what's going to happen 30 seconds go. you know a lot of the problem if this will be this. election outcome most likely will be i think they'll go over to me and i'll just start. every side wants to have favorable . more so to say the judges in place to decide actual outcome but i would just add one to very quick things a child did exactly the same thing with abortion it was. he didn't want to alienate a whole lot of some democratic side in 2016 that is i mean if it was there well it's out of my hands. and it could be you know we're going to go to a short break and if that's your break you want discussion on the major news.

the world is driven by. the day or thinks. we dare to ask. welcome to max hazard financial survival guide. looking forward to your pension

account. yanks this is what happens to pensions in britain. watched as a report. well about the crossed up were all things considered i'm peter lavelle remind you we're discussing some real news. ok let's go to georgian but then budapest the 2nd towering figure that we have lost in the last couple of days the stephen cohen and i don't think there's going to be a lot of television programs made about him but they should be a towering figure in academia and i went to academia and he was a guiding light he was a bit controversial in his early days because he had reem re understood it and

mapped out. what we understood about the soviet union russia and communism and sell he was an adviser to presidents particular of george bush sr he played a pivotal role in academia and i would even say in foreign policy but then everything changed he was basically disappeared by the academy because he disagree with the the consensus. view of russia after the cold war and he was always one that would say engagement because he remembered the cold war and remember how detente for all of its failings works because it kept us out of the major conflict your thoughts about him because united moralists studied the same thing our lives parallel and george yes you're absolutely right peter he was a towering figure and he has been for many years i mean don't forget back in the

1970 s. the consensus view among. analysts of the soviet union was that change was impossible but the soviet system how to reach. it kind of bureaucratic equilibrium you know that would be a brashear would be replaced by another pressure it replaced by another pressure and he broke that he's that now i think that the soviet system can change and and in fact that change is quite likely and when gorbachev and about and whatever else you can say had coverage of he certainly instituted drastic changes he was right and you have to say he was right and those people who criticized him repeatedly in print and on television like richard pipes were wrong i mean they were absolutely wrong as a lot of this is a totalitarian system of totalitarianism by definition chemical change so he was right there and of course in subsequently when he has been an advocate but they

don't he has been consistent he was an advocate for they don't in the seventy's in the eighty's ninety's and through the present basically he's saying that war is the worst possible outcome in relations between the united states and so if you're in and then russia and he's been consistent as all the talk about always an apologist for putin as they were that was always ridiculous he was a very clear cool headed analysts who wanted good relations between the 2 nuclear superpowers and that's what drove his analysis you know glenn it was very interesting i've seen a number i saw a number of interviews with stephen before his death and one thing he stressed all of the time is that during the cold war. there was an attempt to see how the other guy vs the world how the soviet union viewed the united states and that that is

that is remarkably missing in our foreign policy right now is try to understand what the other guy hanks and i think that was what the success of cohen's analysis of ending the cold war so let's. on his side they are diplomacy if you don't have diplomacy has to be based on having some recognition for the position of the other side and if you can understand them then perhaps you can meet somewhere in the middle as opposed to if you just see them as an inherent evil of count change or if it's a little war in conflict just don't listen lucian. and because of this i think that yeah that was a great part of his success and again dentist almost went recognized famous all over this. but again he recommended and i hear advice to presidential administration he was to go to mass for the media during the cold war when there was this push for the taliban reckitt when they recognize that they have security costars as well so it doesn't beg the question what happened after the cold war

well the cold war you have the unit color moment more or less the need to understand russia was more or less gone and again that's why he also disappeared because. his argument is merited was no longer attractive because what he effectively did was he contested the main us narrative of what happened after the cold war because if we lose there are alterations in the media what we're told is that the u.s. reached out to russia for friendship you know a guy the russians there is passed to democracy and you know it offered russia this membership in the european sound of nations and clinton took over and he is just you know his thirst for empire and hatred the moccasin meant as a relationship both broken and you know yeah they are the other we have the ukraine crisis later now we want to go and point out again trying to understand the other side was recognizing that the this is not actually what took place in russia very

clearly it was not overt in that membership in europe in salley instead we had nato expansion which prevented a truly unification of the continent so he was never a critical need. expansion and and of course same here is an expression of the bombing of yugoslavia but that a young man who took this all represented the cancellation of any real role for russia in europe after the cold war and also if you want to have a voice and protect its allies it would need to stand up for itself it could rely on the seat at the table in europe so i think this is all 'd very core if you're going to understand how russia reacted. but we don't want this 4th anymore and you know we were smear them so we're trying to understand other side not you know doing the ground work of a diplomat no if you are now in apologists. think those are your shamed outs and you me because he very clearly said i do not want to mention my war

because then i will be the means of our cause and i will be complicit in this way that russia's president it so i. know it's a big loss for our economic community community definitely you know you know george wendt when the then irony of ironies of all of this is that steven cohen and there were a number of other people like him but primarily steven cohen that he was historically proven right about the end how the end of the cold war would come to an end he had a bet there in his hat ok and then and then we can speed up to the present you know with this ridiculous right to russia gave hoax just like what we heard from glenn i mean he didn't win the case he said this is a hoax ok it doesn't make any sense and as we get empirical sense it's an obviously politically motivated and not only did i my room when he was an active academic i'd married him even more in the last part of his life because he was

a man of amazing integrity and authenticity he says no i'm not going to go along with this i don't have to i'm a retired academic ok i have nothing to fear and i think that it makes him really stand out as a human being up is a scholar is that. he wouldn't take the need when everybody else did was cowed oh and some of them by the way made a lot of money doing it go ahead george yes yes yes no that is right he was right about how the cold war would end he was also right about the ninety's because throughout the ninety's he was warning that yeltsin is an absolutely calamitous figure for russia and that it will all end extremely badly if it was a calamitous and it did and extremely badly and even pointed out which somehow now is no longer miscible in western media political circles is that the west has pursued a policy that it was clearly. arouse fear or

a legitimate fear on the part of the russians that you know when the over end of the russians were extremely well disposed towards the west. and essentially they got the back of the hand from the west and he has pointed this out he pointed this out particularly it over the ukraine crisis i mean and you know that that was a crisis not engineered by putin google it pretty much pursued a kind of a hands off policy but it was a western expansion it was the promise of nato membership it was the attempt to get nato ukraine into a kind of part of the nato bloc that triggered this crisis and why because you know russians have legitimate security concerns and none of that ever gets into the into the western media market i mean you can watch it on you tube i.d.'s they have a lot of money number of his confrontations with max boot with christiane amanpour and you can see you know these are just people who are quite is erica. and the left

so with this rage that you know what he was saying only what he was saying was a reasonable one you know put yourself in the position of russia you know a country that has been invaded twice in the last under. so yes yeah they have serious and legitimate security concerns you know glendower enduring one of the classic crisis of the of the cold war was the cuban missile crisis and it's well documented that president kennedy wanted it least one person in his inner circle that would push back on everything and everything are we getting this right are we living in group think or are is our vision blurred are we ideologically possessed because he wanted someone to always say hey give me a reality check here that's exactly what steven cohen did from almost all of his life in looking at politics and particularly the u.s. relationship with russia that's what we're going to miss and we have been miss. well that is the important role that he served here. is career started when he was

getting it working with a soviet dissenter so they end up in the goal arsenal being released so he recognizes this need to descend from the state now what happens is the ninety's he was he had great disagree very much with american policies so he became a dissenter against u.s. policies and then that's also when he happened to drop off the map and so for me here the story of his last 30 years of his life is really one of what happened to these former giant schools suddenly we don't want to hear from him more because he's not the only one cuban mind you had george kennan claiming he was architect of the containment policy is held reduced on a great thinkers in america or what happened after in 1900 s. he said nato expansion is an assault against russia and it will start a new cold war it is the worst thing that could possibly do on the father's olds in their graves and oh he has essentially disappeared way we did not want to hear from you know this in a more and you can also say the same of jack matlock he was the last ambassador

just soviet union under reagan but also bush and. he said just as a credit for this difficulty go shisha know ending the cold war which was then announced to be over in $99.00 but then of course when what he was critical about this when he rewrite the later on say you know actually the cold war was won why would we hear from the guy who negotiated the end of the cold war when we actually won it instead so he was also house a little bit away with all this great experience to how to understand your opponent and really lay the groundwork for the post so if cohen is not. alone in this is we see a lot of this former giants switch to where i'll finish up for us here john mearsheimer at the university of chicago and amazing geopolitical banker and when he dissented against the iraq war he wasn't on t.v. again until he was on this program. all right. and thank you i want to think i'm going to enjoy the olympics our viewers for watching us here at the see you next

time remember. when else seemed wrong. but all roads just don't call. me. yet to shake out these days to come out ahead and in detroit because the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. canas calendar is downright alfonzo among. those changing take changed dard. his 1st words

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been headlines this 21st of september the personal data of thousands of police officers has been leaked in belarus as unrest shows no sign of easing 6 weeks on from the disputed presidential vote. european countries are introducing new restrictions amid a surge in coronavirus cases with both france and spain seeing record numbers over the weekend. and the trumpet ministration readies fresh measures against iran after unilaterally reimposing international sanctions on the country from 6 world powers including washington's.