procyon thing about america i'm joined by my guest roy rightly topping in dayton she is an attorney conservative commentator is wallace contributor at the hill and in washington we cross to ameesha cross she is in a credit strategist and a political analyst or across a close in fact that means you can jump any time you want and i always appreciate it ok let me go to rory in dayton in preparing for this program about the divide in american politics. it came to my mind that before the american civil war we said the american the united states are and after the civil war he said the united states is because in its very in it's a very interesting discourse of difference because when we look at it as a collective of states making a country and now after the civil war we look at it is unified here and it seems to me we're. digressing back because it's the united states are now because of all of

the divisions that we have and we have this mantra of blues daves red states and as i said in my introduction there's a lot of hostility to it to people that you deem as your opponent how do you reflect upon that well i'm glad that you brought up the civil war because as we talk about how polarized things are and how much we point to people as the enemy i think that's important historical context break up when people talk about this being unprecedented it's not really any in this country didn't fact have a civil war 170 years ago which in the grand scheme of history is not that long of a period of time so i think that period is really instructive and the semantic difference that you brought have between seeing is in our unfortunately we've seen throughout history i was a history major in college so i love. i love history and i like to learn from history and irish perhaps one of our citizens felt the same way but. when you when

you look at that is how we're going back to it we can wean throughout periods of history in term sense whether we go through these periods that are more partisan or less partisan and i think that this is kind of a natural progression just building up lots of things that have happened since the civil war so i think that it's unfortunate and i think it's something that i wish perhaps maybe more people were paying attention to this is a topic that comes up repeatedly is that somebody who holds an opposing view from you doesn't necessarily have to be your moral enemy but as part of that we've seen civil discourse has been waning when i you know i just referenced that throughout history we see some of these concepts wax and wane that's when it's waning and it's another thing that i think that people need to pay more attention to you know just because you hold a particular belief doesn't necessarily make it a universal truth and we can't as much as some people don't want to admit it we can learn from people who hold those absolutely and that's

a that's my experience in media is i learn more from people that i disagree with and it sharpens my wit and my argument and i think it does for them as well you know it's kind of staying with this kind of discourse a problem that we have in our our discourse because. you know obviously during a campaign it's very boisterous and people likes of. hyperbole and they and they have this tendency of using superlatives but you know i get really bothers me when what i hear you know you're a bolshevik europe communist you're a fascist you know that those are hard words to take back ok and and i and i really worry about that and in bolton's this bitterness that people have there's a lot of bitterness across the country and it's and it's not in one single party i think i really lament that we could we can't just come together and say we we have a lot of bigger. and maybe we can use that anger in that press ration to actually

open be honest and look at your opponent in a honus way in st i understand why you're frustrated can you understand why i'm frustrated that's the part of the conversation that is not happening in american politics go ahead of it i would have to agree with you but i also think that we are in a very different mind frame in america much too late we've seen this absent blows over the years so i am always caution to say that now we've seen the most vitriolic or the most artists and divided this country because it's absolutely not correct but in the admin and he and social media and this might that might actually like lynn itself because the or you know they were generations past we solved really extreme . partisanship but today i think that you know the big cable news the cable news cycle the 24 seventh's news cycle has helped to bolster this because the more outrage the war insidious the late wage the more aggressive the more you know click share and viewership these networks get so i think there is something that comes

out of that see your point about bolsheviks and communists and that the name calling that we see throughout campaigns i think that part of that is done largely because the tour american public doesn't really have a concise idea of what those terms mean so if they can give a good maybe a negative if you were to ask people what the tenets of communism or what the bolsheviks where you were just to do man on the street right now across america we're not going to find too many people who fully understand those terms i think that what we see now is a group of people on both sides but i will play on the republicans here because we have a president who tweets these derogatory and strong language all the time in a way that we haven't necessarily seen come from presidents before partisan carty politics we've seen time and time again but there is typically a structure for the presidency that we have seen. our art turn away from and i think that that's also shaping the nation when it comes to how flowing people are with this type of like. yeah but you know i don't know i tend to agree with you but

you know i thought that you know if you're so if you have such a disparaging view about rhetoric why does the left participate in it on steroids ok it's not helping it it's making it worse rory you know i'm glad you brought up the civil war because the civil war was an existential threat to that country ok and we have both a political language now that talks about and sends them to threats you know that the civil war happened for a reason and civil breakdown may happen in the u.s. were a reason in war watching it with their own eyes the problem is that both sides see the other is an existential that it's not like when we end with it then that's a tradition in american politics we all can win somehow but what i'm going to situation is that no i mean if you lose i win and you were a bank with snow day and a lot of republicans very feel very threatened by some of the ideas that are coming out of the left not particularly from the by name but in the democratic party and

in elements of the progressive wing of the party which actually personally i like nothing to progressive because i've learned more really speak to this existential threat threat fear so i think that this ties in with the comment that he said just made about how cable news and social media are driving a lot of the said think in the past when race had these periods of division we had more access to direct conversations with people that we can learn from like you were just referencing and now it's much easier to find yourself in an echo chamber and i recently watched a documentary on netflix the social dilemma which talked about how basically people are shown content based on what they view that pushes them further and try they're down at a particular rabbit hole on certain concepts and rather than saying you know you watch this now for an opposing view i don't actually watch this it's just it hardens viewpoints and i don't think that that's helpful so i certainly. i think

that there's a greater conversation about this existential threat that has to do with both our cable news using habits and our social media habits and people aren't directly communicating the way they think they have in previous generations i think that's a big part of it and we hear the phrase keyboard warriors a lot when you talk about these neutrality conversations that you've been referencing or we view other people as the enemy so much of those conversations take place behind a screen a lot of those conversations probably would not take place if you were sitting face to face with someone and asking them questions about their their particular viewpoints now of course we have seen some unfortunate events in person as well that have stemmed from nice social media interactions with some of the protests and things of various nature that we've had recently so that's something that i think we need to get a handle on but again i think when you talk about this existential threat we can't talk about that in a vacuum we have to talk about the role that media and social media in particular

plays in furthering those decides you know a mission when it went to a lot of conservatives and members of the g o p are very critical of the liberal media and they can be c.e.o. by arabs over the protests because you know there are look there's a lot of misery associated there's a lot of misery associated with the lockdowns all across the country but protest that there is a certain political advantage been there allowed to happen but other people are or are ashamed in public over social distancing and all that how do you address that because as a conservative here i don't you know that's a that's hypocrisy i mean you have a lockdown for health reasons you don't make exceptions because there's exceptions or against. the the better. health of the of the community here i mean how do you address them well 1st and foremost i think that you know it's important that all of the guidelines we heard around checking ourselves. coronavirus i will say that when

conservatives throw a protest at african-americans and supporters of that kind of americans who are out here in the streets protesting for their civil rights and civil liberties specifically the right to not be chilled by the whole leave without having any level of alarm on you i think that that is a very important. if you forgive me and when you're done you're saying you have to suspend those rules and that about social welfare i mean that you know making that exception there if you make an exception for political reasons not for health reasons and i think that there's a lot of people that are good reason to complain about now people complain about whatever they want i think you're twisting my words here what i'm saying is that the route history may have seen minority rights be trampled on now if they're adorable these officers who decided not to shoot unarmed black native women outside of coronavirus and then yes the protests wouldn't happen during coronavirus but we see video after video and i think that it would be disingenuous for these

african-americans people who look like me not to take the streets not to get that attention in the election year what this is one of the things that people are voting on we're talking about police reports you cannot take that anyone has nothing to do with science right it has everything to do with the health risks that are associated with just being an african-american. it's all politics it's politics it is not every day like i can't make up my black eyes so that wasn't you having if you were an african-american being pulled over by the cops are very hot they are sick they're going. up will exhaust are you hike higher in your personality not what i'm saying is that when americans have been at risk in this country for generations and have always stood up and protested this is not because you can at all you suspend science for politics that's what you're saying you know what i'm saying is that black people are responding iris we already know that those levels are extremely high what i'm saying is that black people are also it risk when it comes to their interactions with police officers those are 2 risks that have. and

see right now the happening at the exact same time i don't think that one is more detrimental than the other i think that there are african-americans who have been i'm always on the street generation and quite frankly have a lot to tell me about how they're going to be harmed black men were killed last year in america by police and start how many black men were killed but it's not just on our black men it's also. yes i have to go to one heartbreaking. look at your discretion i know i'm going to be 98 with r.t. . was a pandemic no certainly no border is just blind to nationalities. doesn't

work with the we don't. need to be. judged as commentary classes. we can do better we should know. everyone is contributing each of our own way but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever the challenges created with the response has been so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are in it together. backscatter financial survival guide stacey let's learn about fill out let's say i'm a troika and here i am greece bank of the fight wall street prada thank you for taking

. on the story that's right fellow debt slavery. welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered i'm curious about remind you we're discussing a divided america. ok let's go back to rory and dayton here but let's talk about this fear element in the election ok we've talked about the dependent make here. how does this undermine the legitimacy legitimacy in the faith in the political process here and we can throw in a new support go supreme court justice as well to add into the mix year i mean do you think both parties in the media are playing upon fear for political advantage because it seems quite obvious to me. i think that both parties have long played on

people's fears political advantage i mean if you watch what it all adds you know going back 4050 years we see the same thing when there was a similar social unrest in the sixty's i mean nixon's law and order campaign was all about preying on people's fears and so that's not a new dynamic and i think that with regards to what we're seeing right now we certainly see that law and order element obviously there's a touch of irony in some of that being seen on the right but there is on the left as well about their sphere about if donald trump it's given another 4 years as president what are we going to see in this country so i think yes. yes we are seeing people who have legitimate fears on both sides but again both parties have exploited fear i don't necessarily think one party has the moral high ground on this issue of exploiting fear so it would be great if people were more and using

their own critical thinking as opposed to just succumbing to these fears but fear is a powerful motivator and always has been and if that didn't work i don't think we'd see people on both sides continuing to use it in their political ads and into funding the police desire to create fear in your mind for citizens well i think that that's definitely something that presidents from the republican party are hoping for but we've heard a certain segment of the protest but not all protesters that definitely not the black lives matter large is 80 on the police statement what i know and what has been research about me on the police is that if they movement that has been going on since that day they were out lots of what we saw with the war on drugs what we saw with the war on terror and even the police doesn't mean what republicans are going around telling people it does the public and it even goes on as long meant making sure that the budgets of state and local governments goal towards helping those who are most often interact with by the police so whether that is the homeless population or those in need actors programs those who need mental help

assistance it means moving some monies away and funding things that actually will help these individuals rather than excessive policing because what we do know is that there are police across this country my father is a police officer there are police officers across this country who are doing things outside of their job they are being called to take care to help cases they're not mental health professionals they're being called to take care home situations they are not in the in the be made up taking care hours and that's not what they are trained to do so when you have officers who are doing more oftentimes things that have nothing to do with criminality at all and they're not trained to they're not specialized in it all that does is cause further problems what we also know is that state and local. it's our right not meaning that as much as we've seen there be extra blow. how much police officers monopolies office who think in their budgets that means that you're automatically cutting something else the 1st thing to get cut are afterschool programs mental health centers clinics for the poor and

homeless shelters and programs like that what we're seeing and what they're saying with the police is not the same as eradicating police funding what it needs what we've seen in context is that just 10 percent of police funding going towards homelessness going towards mental health going towards afterschool programs can solve and reduce a lot of the crime that we do see and start communities across the country that's what they're asking there weren't you know we have the case of minneapolis where they actually did to fund the police and crime so are ok and then you had members of the public complaining to their elected officials that crime is soaring where are the police and this is what you have a lot of what we just heard from i mean i agree with a lot of been here i think the police are asked to do things that they're not they're not equipped to do they're not educated to do i agree with that completely here but you know they're part of the the the rhetoric of defund the police is the is that the police are the enemy which i don't have any tolerance for there is there i don't know the number of police officers that have died this year but it's

up very very high because of all of these protests and violence here so. to speak to that there i mean this is a political cultural from the police and i think i mean she gave us a very very nuanced explanation what it is but that's not how it's being used in this campaign or well there's certainly an element of irony with what we saw in minneapolis in terms of how this issue was approached and i'm glad that you just used the word nuance to describe mrs response because that was actually what i was getting prepared to say is this is a complex topic in it requires want solutions and i think we often see this our government does a lot more reactive than it is proactive so we need to. have more nuanced conversations about what defunding the police means i mean i personally feel a government spending in a lot of areas is out of control i would love to have a more nuanced conversation about reining some of that in particular areas and if the police is one of those absolutely but it can't just be the pendulum swings this

way now it's swung this way because as we saw in minneapolis that's not effective so we need to take a harder look at this budget and say what are we funding what are the results that we've seen and if we're not seeing the results which in many places arguably we are not how can this money be better spent obviously this is intertwined with a lot of mental health topics other social issues and we talk a lot about the social determinants of health in the big picture of how we can get people to a place where they don't necessarily need to call police so again i go back to the outward nuance that you use because it's not something that are. they tend to get more support from the public when they speak in these broad generalities and things that invoke emotions like fear as we just discussed and that's not most effective in terms effective in terms of campaigning it's not effective in terms of good policy choices and governing so just back to that i think we need to have

a more serious conversation in this country not just in minneapolis really across the country in this list is going to look different in different places and i think that we have to acknowledge that too in a small town what the police budget can handle and what they do is going to look very different than it is in a major metropolitan area like new york or los angeles so those conversations are nuanced for a reason and it's not a one size fits all solution and so let's get serious about that let's put some policy commissions the place i mean you know again going back to history i talk about the current commission quite frequently back in the sixty's and perhaps you know we had implemented some of the solutions that the current commission had recommended but l.b.j. wanted to. this ties into another topic government spending out of control we see that a lot on the t. o. d. in the military side all of these things kind of fit together so why didn't you just let it all do i'm going to i'm going to probably inadvertently agree with the

mission make her happy is that you know i hope because we don't have a real discussion about health care in america is tied in also to what's going on with what the police should and shouldn't be doing here so i have to put their list change gears here i mean how much what is our political language going to change when trump leaves if that's in january or 4 years from january is it really all about trump because as much as they hate the left vilifies him he is such an amazing. bottom line topic for them to go after i mean it's ratings ratings ratings it's wall to wall go after the president and of course it convinces people that hate trump but i don't think it really helps our our our our conversation about politics because he's a man he's moral he's not going to always be with this but a lot of the problems we have in the country they are with us in the going to get

worse and i really wish you would stop focusing on that one man and talk more about policy as we have done on this program ok no i absolutely agree with you there and there are a lot of things that i. inadvertently take credit for and even if they're even if there are comments from the left that i think the. president trial can you present trump credit or you know for racism or hope at least the tally or these other instances that we've seen or generations all before trump ever came into office along with or in some cases trump with you know where it is in this world so i think that we have to look at this from that vantage point like you say he's not going to always be here whether he wins in november or does that mean that a i think there's been a seismic chain. in america and politics in american diplomacy specifically it not only about how we talk about each other in terms of our some politics but also the ways in which the bailout issue all and a lot of to come out it has gotten beyond policy and i think that you know you kind of brought up in your introduction earlier but for every you know policy is what

matters the most when i recognize from talking to people on the streets is that this is the type of thing they get spokes going they're not going to sit home and read the policy produce they're not going for any any person who's running for office what their specific policy platforms are they just aren't you know and those things are accessible online or when they're caught fast or other things about and that's just not something that's in the regular form of things to do for me or and every day it's just not happening what they do latch on to is these nit picky when i think that donald trump tapped into very well might think that politicians before him did as well was to note how people interact with each other and what sets people off and what is their attention the most to donald trump's credit i think because he came out of that reality is he because he came at the entertainment world you know how to work rat and i think he uses that to his advantage in the same way that we honestly saw bill clinton do it in the ninety's he also knows how to work a crowd so i don't necessarily think that working a crowd is a bad thing i do think that we are in an era and politics now blaming all social

media and people news where people say things that they would not have gotten by saying in public in years ago at all and i'm not sure that regardless of who gets in a november this november or 2020 or we're ever going to go back to an era of stability in politics i don't think that's ever going to happen regardless of who is running on either side i think we have had a watershed moment in this country that has built up largely because of the anonymity and we've seen with you know the bottom going to other things on social media that we're just not going to come back ok i guess we can just serendipity big you know we go back to. my party think about the civil war because we just you know what i mean she just doesn't give us cause for optimism ok. i'm sorry i'm not very optimistic i think they're ok but what i would really i really truly lament is that on issues of like health care about policing and things like that if you take all of that toxic charged rhetoric i bet you could get a lot of progressives and conservatives that don't say yeah i agree on the so it's

how do we get this done see if you take out all of the toxic noise i think a lot of people actually agree on a lot of things but what good is a mission to be in here and i agree with there is it in there it's kind of cherry picking to set people off and you know what music's people you lose the conversation about policy go ahead lori it's well i think that's an interesting point because one of the things that has changed is people used to be applauded when they did find things that they could come together on and say work across the aisle pass this he says i partisan legislation we saw that dynamic even through a couple of years ago and now what we're seeing is that when somebody on one party groups to war with somebody across the aisle on an issue they're instantly labeled this week where they're called a traitor and dick cheney wasn't baiter yeah yeah yeah and that's an element that i think it's relatively new and that's going to be hard to overcome i think that even

really had these these very partisan periods before there was always certain topics and you know i work a lot in veterans affairs and that was always something to be bipartisan about helping veterans and that's gotten very highly polarized and politically toxic lately so to your point about if we could just get rid of the rhetoric i think that is the 1000000 dollar question of how do we get to a point where we can strip that rhetoric out and that's a separate conversation from some of the actual issues that you were talking about 6 health care supreme court police etc reason focus 1st on how do we get rid of that rhetoric and quite frankly i don't know the answer right now i think you don't owe me an answer either but the 3 of us have an excellent conversation and i'm looking at you know looking at. myself no one's hair is on fire we're making some progress. but if they make well i guess in washington and david and i want to thank our viewers for watching us iraq you see you next time remember.

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just in case you're worried about who's going to pay for it mexico will pay for. it will see what happens who knows i always say who knows what we'll see on the hill it will be success. all my social class. people also in poverty 1st. if you're born into a poor family if you're born into a minority family if you're born into a family that only has a single parent that really constrains your life chances. people that i am. born into generational poverty. it's a tough fight every day so you meet your needs and the needs of your family.

opposition rallies break out in the president because shanker is sworn in 1st 6 dozens of people have been arrested. the russian foreign ministry accuses western powers of launching a disinflation campaign over the alleged poisoning of alexina valmy the opposition activist has now been discharged from hospital also this hour. russia is ready to provide for you when with top notch assistance but he made it invites united nations staff to try a new russian covert vaccine free of charge adding that there were any requests from the u.n. call the meantime an aussie correspond to become one of the 1st to get the russians . as part of phase 3 trials.