he is the chief global strategist at europe a civic asset management cry telling process in effect that means you can jump anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok let's go to new york richard you know when you looking at the news about the economy looking at a lot of macro numbers and sometimes i think it's very quite confusing and where the economy is going particularly when we look at unemployment permanent unemployment and jobs and that are permanently lost here but the more i look at it and you gentlemen are preeminent experts here i don't i don't really think it's that you are an l. i'm really quite that taken with this k. a recovery the rich got richer and the poor got or is that an oversimplification richard go ahead not at all i think we've already seen that now folks light some time that at least 2 more 3 on 4 decades of growing inequality both of wealth and income and instead of that being understood as having contributed to this combination pandemic and crash we're living through instead of that being

understood we see the crash having made it worse the growth of the wealthy at the very top having outstripped everything we could have imagined at the same time that now over 60000000 americans have had to file for one or another kind of state or federal unemployment compensation assistance this is a system that is still going out of control in terms of extremes of wealth inequality and income inequality and there's nothing on the horizon that suggests that that's going to change and so i think that is becoming a permanent quality of this economy and is a society that used to in the 20th century pretend that it was a vast middle class that capitalism was a tide that lifted all boats i don't think this is politically already a logically sustainable. peter the same question to you because if we look at the

consumption patterns of the top 10 percent during the worst of the pin demick the lock down their consumption went down something like 15 percent but the class that serves them their income went down more than 30 percent that's according to some reports here so i me and we do know that the job base those stories in the billionaire stories how they've really done well out of all of this year is that is that a kin to a kate recovery because we do have this growing and maybe permanent underclass go ahead you are well you know i don't even care what letter you want to try to use to describe it my problem is with the word recovery because i don't think we've recovered at all sure there has been a recovery in the stock market in that the market recovered what it lost in the early days of coded and yes i mean this recession that we're currently in began with a very substantial collapse and yes there's been a bit of

a bounce off of that collapse but we're still in a recession and so i don't know if recovering to being in a less severe recession then we were in at one point really qualifies as a recovery and i don't think we've seen the lows i think we're going to relapsed i think we're actually going to go down and there's a good chance that the stock market might make new lows as well but regardless of what happens with that bubble in the short run the reality is that main street's pain has actually been wall street again it's precisely because the economy remains so weak and what's really at the root cause of the weakness is not capitalism it's the failure to have capitalism it's the federal reserve that is monetizing massive government debts that are only inflating asset bubbles but at the same time it is depriving the real economy of the. or so that it actually needs to grow and build

a real recovery that would in fact lift all boats instead we're settling for a fake recovery because that's the easiest one to create because in order to have a real recovery we're going to have to have some short term pain in order to make that possible because what has to recover is not consumption but production we need more savings we need more capital investment and to and to enable lat we actually need higher interest rates not lower interest rates and we need a smaller government not a larger government so everything that we have done since the pandemic began is actually weakening the economy and we're compound ing all of the stakes that we made before the pandemic if you remember we were already slipping along before anybody heard of covert 19 and 4th quarter 2018 that's when the wheels started coming off the bus that's when the fed did the about face and started cutting rates that's when they really started to move from quantitative tightening back a quantitative easing now in march of 2020 right those trends excel aerated we went

right back to 0 and we went we skipped q e 4 and went right to q e infinity but all these policies are simply blowing more air into a big bubble analysts same time they're depriving the real economy of the air that it needs to grow if it if i go back to reagan all of these mistakes and i think simply agree with much much when you present but much of those mistakes have benefited the same people the richest people that we've ever known in the history of humanity those mistakes ok yes i agree you know what a lot of assets we agree we agree but i'm to focus you know richard here is that but because these mistakes have benefited these people why should they do anything about it i mean they made out i mean there's no and let me go to richard there's no yes. these mistakes. i think the use of the word mistake and it always amazes me. it's a mistake over and over again year after year peter is quite right i agree but

these mistakes being systematic the repeated over and over again are not dealt with adequately by suggesting that if only those mistakes weren't made we would have some nice functioning capitalism that would look again lift all boats it seems to me that the people at the top have figured out that if and when they can they can make more money if that drowns the economy and in that downturn they can turn back to their advantage as well using monetary policy to insulate the stocks upon which the bulk of their wealth depends this is a mis statement so often repeated that the word mistake starts to lose its meaning this is the way capitalism slayer's out it might be nice to imagine that it would function some other way but that's a utopian imagery of

a stateless capitalism that probably never existed but in the last 100 years smar sure has disappeared as this state has become a major lender so the growth and concentration of wealth with or without the merger is between the state and the biggest chap in the lists which is happening more and more as we see i think this is the real capitalism we have to live with and not the imaginary one that peter likes to suggest we see i read it i mean the middle i'm in the middle of a big bowl of between being and when you said you agree with peter i think you agree with both peter and here we're going to go to the other peter here mycenae what you used the word count was many get that you know i think it's very problematic because it doesn't seem to be benefiting the whole lot of people because they know none the less here i would agree with peter our guest here in the sense that i'm tired of socialism. for the very very rich and then everybody else

gets the crumbs in the countless the economy go ahead well 1st of all don't confuse what america has now with capitalism i mean what's left of capitalism have been destroyed by socialism so it's the socialism that has crept into the system that is responsible for the problems in this mass disparity in wealth but also you assume that this is going to end well for the rich i assure you it's not these asset bubbles are temporary a lot of this wealth only exists on paper people are not actually spending that money it's just on an on a brokerage account statement what is coming is a major collapse in the value of the dollar the inflation is ultimately going to result in the cost of living rising much faster than the paper value of peoples assets so believe me the rich are going to get theirs too everybody in america is going to be impoverished to a degree by these failed policies it's not just of course the middle class they're just going to suffer the most but in the end the rich are going to suffer too but

the real solution for everybody is a return to capitalism what we need is sound and money and independent fed that no longer artificially manipulates insta interest rates to prop up asset prices and is subsidized government deficit spending we need much higher interest rates that will result in a big decline in spending from government and consumers will have more savings will have more capital or capital investment we need a lot less regulation as well as cuts to government spending so we can have a more vibrant economy instead of the sick economy we have now that is on life support that is temporarily benefiting people who own the assets that benefit from the inflation that the fed is creating but ultimately that inflation is going to rise result in an increase in the cost of living for everybody and we are headed for a dollar crisis and clearly the rich own more dollars in any. but we all play they

have the most to lose when the value of the dollars they're holding completely implodes ok i'm certain i think we have one thing all 3 of us have been coming to a crisis that is on her rights but richard how can how can you save money and how can you invest money if you don't have a job i mean it's very simple here. yeah i mean i'm mazed a little bit by this and we're going to have high interest rates we're going to really crunch down on the economy you mention in passing that consumers will have to save more they don't have anything left to save from that's why this level of savings of the great mass of americans is virtually 0 or negative already they've been suffering for so long there's nothing left to crunch down on them which is already happening now it is a recipe for much more turmoil and chaos in this society then we are already then we're already seeing i agree with peter that this is going to end very badly and it's going to diesel late the bubble at the stock market alongside of

everything else but for me this is the end of an empire for the 1st time in my adult life i don't see a way out i don't see a solution emerging i used to it my ear that way capitalism over change the great depression and all the other afflictions that it has imposed on the people around it but i don't hassle isn't it in a hose those inflexions government did not listen it honestly out of work late and it struck me as one remarkable thing so blaine's socialism for the ills of capitalism is an extraordinary move at a time like this when the socialist movement is coming back from a period of historic weakness precisely at the time that the growth and equality what went into that as unesco show as an adventure a lot as in well they need all the service. undermining the structure of the it was

on me look you're talking about the social niceties and i have to jump in here we're going to go to a heart rate now to give you one especially one with a recovery say what are. it's going to be hard to reclaim freedom and we're going to have to work at it but as people recognize from examples like seems young. what replenish and digital systems need to. i hope people will start fighting men saying we won't tolerate systems in our streets in our homes that can't possibly track what we're doing.

is you'll media a reflection of reality. in a world transformed. what will make you feel safe. tyson nation community. are you going the right way or are you being so. direct. what is true what is faith. in the world corrupted you need to descend. to join us in the depths. or remain in the shallows. time after time corporations repeat the same mantra sustained. willesee very

important to accelerate the transition to sustainable transport sustainability stay in her manner more equitable and sustainable well. they claim their production is completely harmless. the big. companies want us to feel good about buying their products while the damage is being done far away this is something else this doesn't want any minute. news no we didn't dream and then we understood so when. welcome back to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle tree mind you we're discussing whether there will be a k. recovery.

ok richard let me go back to you in new york. a few years ago i met an indian businessmen very successful indian businessmen and at the time india's economy was doing quite well again usually using these macro be macro economic indicators ok g.d.p. growth. income number of people employed but at the same time there's like 200000000 people that live in stark probert in india and i said to him i said is your the indian model just to accept that you've got to have 200000000 people and start poverty because you see your economy is growing and as an investment target people are pouring money into it i mean is it it has the indian economy sense except that it's going to have an underclass so i'm asking you is this what's happening to america where you were going to have an underclass a permanent underclass plus an ip. and it will the perception is that the

will be enough political stability to maintain the status quo because it seems to me i agree with the last remarks you made in the 1st part of the pro the program is that you know i don't see a way out here go ahead richard. yeah i think that's exactly what's happening i think we're learning in a variety of ways to live with an enormous underclass i disagree with you that we didn't already have one i think are good but i think it we are now learning to live with a much larger one and you can see that in a variety of ways except in space flight what people claim of 200000 people dead from a pandemic that didn't have anything like that impact in many many other countries the united states has 4 and a half percent of the world's people it has 25 percent of the cold it cases and 25 percent of the deaths for a rich country that's a stupefying failure of management but it's also the acceptance of guns the couple

suffering in its population as if it were normal and ditto for the level of poverty divil ditto for the level of discrimination dr antony funnell chief yesterday at the bloomberg equality senate explained how people of color in america have the lowest wealth the lowest income dalia's. cases of coldish and they are the frontline workers they are the ones that are suffering from hypertension diabetes obesity if you wanted a proof of everything the black lives matter movement wanted to suggest about systemic racism you could just listen to dr found chief in 15 minutes and you would get it and it is being accepted mainly by the government right now as official policy so instead doing absolutely nothing to undercut it i think we are becoming the society we used to see overseas enclaves of wealth new york san francisco

chicago and all of that and so rounded by a sea of really desperate poverty they have accepted that in india and they have. our system is if not more despite the independence from great britain they had to accept it in brazil another case and boy you look at trump blow sonora and moldy and you can see the kind of right wing government which this is an acceptable range you know and it will be say i'm going to follow politics very carefully and i watch snippets of the the republican and democratic conventions and i was appalled i'm simply appalled that neither party has a pro active economic agenda presumed to presume to pursue in light of the. high unemployment. and the in the structural changes that are going through the economy i didn't see that from either party here and it goes back to my question to

richard is there is this an exception acceptance that we're just going to have a whole lot more poor people. well you know we're i disagree that we've even been having a growing economy i don't think we had any growth even before kovac and i think the g.d.p. numbers were manufactured based on understating the true rate of inflation and so by understating inflation you can make it appear that a stagnating or shrinking economy is is actually growing it's not you know the reason that americans don't have any savings is because the economy has been growing they've been able to keep it together through debt they've used debt to replace their income but why is that it's because we don't have a vibrant economy because we don't have real increases in productivity thanks to big government and banks the federal reserve so we're in this gigantic hall because we have banded capitalism and embraced a socialist form of government we have government central planning we have central

planning on interest rates we have price fixing and market manipulation and we have an economy where we're trying to i generate growth by printing money and giving it to people to spend and that. it's not going to work well they said the only way to get really good amik growth is to shrink government so that we can have a stronger more vibrant economy because we need more productivity to consume more we have to produce more and the government doesn't produce anything all it does is interfere with the productive efforts of the private sector you know the problem is though but peter but the government it particularly in the last 2 years that particularly during this economic turndown they chose winners i mean you know so jeff bezos and downfall and all that they're the real socialists in america because they're the winner in all of this ok i mean i think you know these terms calculus and socialism don't really mean anything for me is that both bennett who is bent out of it promote all of this the middle class is not the working class isn't the

big tech companies are. the banks are doing really well here are the banks that are doing well look at the debate here imploding look at look at their sare prices look the banking sector is in a lot of trouble but look none of the bailouts should have happened there should have been a p.p.p. the whole thing was a disaster nobody should be getting a check from the government these extended unemployment benefits for a mistake what we need is less government not more government government has to cut spending not increase it money printing is just going to make it worse is going to destroy the value of our money and we're going to blame all these problems on capitalism and we're going to continue to build a bigger and bigger government that is going to suffocate the life out of this economy and the people who are going to suffer the most are going to be that middle class of the poor ok we're going to face are you did it if you have i agree with you how the dollar is being destroyed here but the people that are benefiting from this they turn their dollars into real assets like my ass yes they will always

sound valuable but what about working people that lost their jobs you know they're good they're good you can't really can't turn it into whatever it is but what is the government functioning about it even if you only. that sounds like a problem by poland and ireland it oh no go ahead richard i've always found it extraordinary that the way folks like peter tried to exonerate the capitalist system from each grotesque failures is by having a deus ex not going to the government drops into this story so that all the anger and bitterness and rage against the capitalism that produces all these problems including owning and controlling the government is exempted from the criticisms you cited it all off on the government create this utopian fantasy of a get out of let me an era king but out of capitalism without

a government has no right in saying no governor all easy going to govern it the government actually halle's and i like that they are ultimately has always been controlled by the people who have the big boxed they've used it for their own advantage the imagination that we can have a capitalism with the employer with a minority of employers a control everything who are not going to try to control the government is a fantasy we have never let your ignorance of encouraging this relation is only exceeded by your ignorant of history listen i don't do that to you so do but i'm telling you you're wrong you've got to understand capitalism go away no idea what's going on here you're clearing enabling going out and implies a little things like what to do keeping on talking doesn't solve the problem i go day you go what is your solution to the problem you're not directing this conversation by magic in your heart of it yeah well actually we're listen we have got on it there's more money printing and are not going to do listen to that we're

did or you know we're just chilling up time doing this you know ok peter asked a fair question what is the solution richard because we only have about 2 and a half minutes 3 minutes go here we got capitalism is this. a system that is organized in every enterprise by having a small minority of people the owner the shareholders the major shareholders the board of directors making all the decisions from the majority of people who are called employees that's a very similar arrangement to the lords and the serfs of feudalism to the ministers and the slaves of slavery we didn't break out of that dichotomy of a few controlling the many until we developed a concept of democracy the solution to the problems of capitalism is still put capitalism where we put slavery in feudalism we have to substitute a democratically organized and surprised right to debase every factory every store

every office organized in the way we organize our politics one person one vote we decide together what to produce how to produce where to produce and what to do with the fruits of the labor we've all gantry have you followed me as your holier sister the knowledge that you're talking about creating life could tell me how to cast a role like environment i care but if you think there were no well yes in cuba up here in the soviet oh yeah you're going to want to really add you have this survey to see what is not is going on erik's it gathered work it only works in your imagination it does your reality and your hater ology peter peter has every politician is happy and i want to ask is a substantial question here peter how do you how would you react to tens of millions of people that have lost their jobs have no future and i don't think they to think in terms of capitalism but a lot of them would say what is capitalism doing for me and i think that's a legitimate question if you because

a recovery i agree with your 1st answer this program will get a recovery it depends on yourself where you are in life if that's a recovery or not yet this solution. depends on embracing capitalism and read. jack ting socialism we need to restore free market capitalism to this country big government needs to get out of the way we need to have sound money and limited government again that is the only path back to prosperity there is real pain there are real problems i don't deny that government and central banking cause those problems and government and central banks are not going to solve the how could a more government we have it will work if we try to socialize economic and hernan if there's some kind of socialist paradise a guy that always nestlé me i disagree and is like we're going to take a bad stage and i don't let's make it much i'm the worse you know who controls the government just as well as i do blaming the government just likes of people who are pulling the puppet strings all of the criticism they do less or you know that i

have to be here i'm putting it right it doesn't hurt because i want to make my case in westport and in new york and i don't want to thank our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time remember rostock rules. cash calendar is drawing alfonzo along doing darned there's change change dard served. his 1st words were added i will see you're a challenging post you've got 2 years to live. i have no doubt that what happened was criminal.

offense concentrate market is a $1000000000.00 industry these things how does huge financial motivation to solve these problems there are numerous talking showing that doctors were keen to test facts or a concentrates for infectivity on the patients won't give them doctors the raunch to play golf or turn to stone why they would keep me in security procedures. on people stupid guy i'm always question michel all right being hard to live when so many have a. wall street financial engineers the kleptocrats divert the money printing into their pockets at a rate that according to the rand corporation equals more than $50.00 trillion dollars so that is your small gain god that's why we have social unrest that's why we have incredible wealth and income gap that's why we have such

a distorted economy that's why wages are not keeping up that's why we've got inflation raging that's your smoking gun in the story. we are segregated. by social class laws filth most people don't also in poverty 1st . if you're born into a poor family you're born into a minority family if you're born into a family that only has a single parent that really constrains your life chances people die on average 15 years younger if you're born into generational poverty. by every day so you meet your needs and the needs of your family.

in. the military plane crash lands on a highway in eastern ukraine 25 people are dead 2 others are critically injured. in the form of paris headquarters of the satirical magazine charlie hebdo is now being treated as a terror attack the incidents left 2 people injured comes after the magazine recently republic controversial cartoons featuring the prophet muhammad's. ethical concerns raised over of course the volunteers in the u.k. could soon be deliberately infected with close aide in a world 1st trial. for

i will continue watching on c.n.n. tonight.