again base new invisible enemy we should abandon so many things in our lives the beasts war and i'm tired and need to go to discuss that analogy one by iran's foreign minister javad zarif minister it's such a pleasure to see her in moscow especially in person good to see you again you know if you are one of the 1st and very few dignitaries who are flying into moscow this day and i want to start you by asking how it has this been demick change the workings of diplomacy and you guys have some conversations like most of us or is it not particularly safe to exchange information this way well actually we have to do that and just this morning i participated in the meeting of the conference on interaction and cooperation in asia a confidence building in asia. by video conference. some 20 more foreign ministers who are participating in that conference and as you pointed out in your in your introductory statement. this despite

a studs and recognize ritual poor weak or strong or enemies it's affecting all of us and it shows that we need to come together in order to fight this fight is unfortunately the united states continues to prevent iran even from buying medicine and vaccine to buy just by will definitely discuss that in details but let me ask you one more question about the workings of diplomacy because from what you mentioned i understand that when it comes to you know making. public statements or prepared statements it's ok to do with online but the use still came to moscow for some reason is that because certain things that you sound sort of to discuss the only this is this is actually my 3rd visit to moscow after the corona. breakout so there are things that you need to discuss in person. of course. we all use video

conferencing as zoom or whatever other. platforms as out of a book but it comes to a point that you diplomat of your statue would be grounded for i mean i mean you cannot be serious you cannot be a task that. has covered 1000 change and you know that i mean i are required to do you require your peers your counterparts to provide some proof of them not being a how for risk to others. we don't do that to diplomats in iran but i was not subjected to any of those made an ad out in moscow no but in some of the countries they do some countries require you to go through at least a temperature check some countries require you to provide a test that was taken. no more than 48 hours before you go i will but those are much fewer china is for instance one of those countries that

has very strict requirements i'll be going to china in a couple of weeks and i'm not going to be easy now iran has one of the hardest hit countries in the middle east some experts suggest that you are now in the grips of . a 3rd way if it involves a pandemic in many a high ranking iranian official site succumbed to or even died from the virus i know that one of your closest. friends visors and france and former colleagues sadly died because of it i wonder if you personally have developed any rules or chains to maximize your safety because you're in a high risk shop you have many interactions and you're in the risk group for sure. we can only try to who say i mean keep the necessarily not social distancing but physical distance in our. skin how do you do

wear the mask because when you came in here you are you there is massive i do with a mask all the time and it's across the board and i've heard them ask all of my colleagues words about it is not as if i can i can be immune and they have to wear the mask now you mentioned before. there are difficulties where difficulties for iran in securing medical equipment and they were there even before the pandemic struck. how severe they are now and is it a factor in why. the pandemic affected your country so severely and. certainly the sanctions and economic hardship that the united states imposed on iran has had a significant impact. on 2 levels 1st we had to be could not keep people from going to work because not provide them bid subsidies with the extra subsidies we already do provide subsidies but we couldn't

provide them with extra subsidies or incentives to stay home people have to make to earn a living again and the government's. coffers not that very. filled so we need we needed to allow them to to end their own living this was this was the 1st decision that we had to make a very hard decision but the decision nevertheless that we needed to adopt and secondly the 2nd level is buying medicine buying the vaccine had the united states 1st of all limited. financial resources by preventing us from selling boyd and secondly it is preventing us even from having access to our own money we have quite a bit of money stashed in countries abroad and those countries are prevented by deny to safe from even allowing us to buy medicine with our own money whatever the

americans are saying about their sanctions not affecting a humanitarian items is just is just like we have been trying to transfer money for the covert 19. kovacs. w.h.o. x. in we haven't been able to do that we've been trying to transfer money even for normal influenza vaccines to the united states restrictions prevent us from even transferring money to to buy vaccines so it's. it's basically medical terrorism that the u.s. is engaged now you know in moscow for what i assume some sensitive conversation since you came here in person and i'm pretty sure that you are going to touch base here russian colleagues on the latest u.s. decision to re-impose arms embargo against your country not everybody except the united states agrees that it's illegal so we don't have to waste your valuable time

on you know talking about the illegitimacy of that act i want to ask you and i want to get an honest assessment from you whether you think it would still be effective despite being illegal does the united states have the means of imposing not only imposing that ban on your country but effectively making it international will united states. does certainly have. a lot of. might financial might. in been it comes to preventing countries from getting beat each other and that is why countries are less and less dependent on dollar because they know that as long as they depend for their international transaction on u.s. dollars. they are basically at the mercy of the united states and the americans can can impose. reeves on that 2nd point on this is this is a principle for us you don't doesn't buy

a lot of warms we're not saudi arabia i mean date they spend $67000000000.00 more than russia did. on the military. we don't spend that much money. we don't have that much money to spend we produce most of the weapons we need ourselves so we don't going to go to international markets. to try to procure weapons from here and none of the european countries even sold us weapons since since the revolution. so we're not under any illusions but this is a principle that there was an agreement to lift the restrictions and as russia correctly has pointed out we did not be were not under an arms embargo there were restrictions we needed to get a permission from the security council to buy and sell weapons and now that restriction will be defeated in mid october and that is the most important thing

if we need to procure weapons to buy weapons from our friends then the room no legal limits a well speaking of here or france and buying our ours from that. counterpart sergei lavrov was asked whether russian arms producers will continue trading with iran he said that he could not give an answer because it's a private business decision and americans do have an ability to influence the calculus of france i want to ask you specifically what kind of reaction you're expecting from russia and china is the rhetorical condemnation and now. russia and china to delete in objecting to to the american measures before that better even the europeans i mean 13 members 13 of the 15 security council members quites wrote letters to the president of the security council once on the 20th of august when the united states if should that so-called want to be case in and once

on the 20th of september when the united states claimed that is purported u.n. sanctions have come back rejecting it and that's what's important i think that's the important point. just to develop that i cannot isn't out of a but i mean does a major diplomatic defeat for the united states isolation of the united states. verification by the international community of the legitimacy of the iranian position really which is an important achievement not. as for iran but for the national community for the rule of law no. contact at the military level with our friends those contacts will continue usually these are not broadcast live on television i see you mentioned the european reaction and i do want to ask you about the europeans because i think in russia now nowadays finds itself in a station similar to the one that they're on it was with the g c p a way because it has invested in the pipeline in the north stream pipeline and now

it's c.s. the europeans having 2nd thoughts of paying lip service to certain ideas for the out actually putting any muscle behind it. can the europeans still be regarded as this reasonable part of the west because they definitely are talking different talk from the united states but are they more reliable when it comes to international agreements and keeping their war it but as you just go directly pointed out north stream is is a very clear example that if europeans allow the united states to bully them when it comes to iran the united states can bully them when it comes to the lifeline and north stream is extremely important for europe as you know for germany its its most reliable energy source and it and the united states is even trying to intimidate clearly intimidate germany from from engaging with russia in that so i think the

lesson that has to be drawn from that is that if you allow a bully to operate in these new lives no point and i think the europeans need to realized now unfortunately up until now europeans have been doing a lot of good talk. on the north stream but not much much action i think. i mean we have a long history. and we are patient we know that the policy of the united states to be a policy of the united states is bound to be rejected by the international community while i think some time but we have thousands of years of history behind like some countries with 250 years well i wish i had this long period of history and this kind of afterwards but for the time being we have to take a short break so you're back in just

a few moments stay tuned. well the pandemic no certainly no borders i'm just blind to nationalities. as americans we don't come with the we don't look like seeing the whole world beats to. people. judge you. come in every crisis like this sometimes. we can do better we should. everyone is contributing nature our own way but we also know that this crisis not go on forever the challenge is critical to response has been masked so many good

people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we're in it together. welcome back to worlds apart that iran's foreign minister. minister just before the break or it's touched upon. your attitude to the united states and. there is a bit more than a month left until the next year's presidential elections i know that you say that iran doesn't have a preferred candidate but as a kind sure with

a long tradition of strategic analysis i'm sure you have to foresee different scenarios do you think there will be a difference in the u.s. policy of his over your country depending on who occupies the white house next year but. obviously there will be differences between various presidents and various points of views i doubt that any one will have extreme views such as president trump but at the end of the day we need to look at the policy not the personality in the white house and i think the question that needs to be asked before even asking what the policy would be with regard to iran is whether there will be a peaceful transition in the united states if president by the election from what we heard from president trump yesterday there seems to be a bit more complicated question as ahead of us he said diplomatic contender is out

also pretty and sure whether they're going to accept he's victorious i think it plays for you know from both camps perhaps. let's wait and see i mean the other camp doesn't have many options president trying to sue. i think in the white house . for for a sitting president to claim that this country's elections are going to be 'd rigged it's an interesting scenario to watch now he's contender are his competitor rather joe biden has already indicated that if he wins his administration is willing to resurrect they disappear way to reach your country and your personal responded by rolling out preconditions rebuilding trust compensating damages which i'm sure he would hear no on on star is what i want to ask here is. regardless of your feelings about the us contact. is there an interest in the

confidence of the deal i are interested in in substance or of course we are we have said that bit or without the united states if iranian interests that or. guaranteed in the j.c. pure we don't want anything outside the j.c. people we simply want what is ours what was bargained what was negotiated within the j.c. pure and it cannot be renegotiated. we simply want that if the remaining j.c. pure participants can provide that we are willing to live with that we gave them particularly the europeans over a year to implement what they have promised they made 11 promises at the level of foreign ministers twice to us but they were not able to even start implementing those 11 promises not even a single one of them and then we started reducing our commitments to j.c. puree as was 4 c. in the j. c.p.o.

so that's the real dispute resolution make mechanism not the parallel war dispute resolution mechanism that the united states is talking about we are abiding by our obligations we are within the j.c. pew and if. the europeans come back to j.c. and implement the obligations and it's fine j.c. purity is a life disagrees he counseled proved that it is a lot. the united states trying to torpedo this resolution we were sitting in the room the united states not only left the room but bombed the room try to destroy the room now it has to gain a seat back in the room and that is not automatic i'm not putting any preconditions i mean you do not want to have a situation in international. environment where somebody can leave an agreement a bill and come back to it this doesn't work i was watching your conversation at

the council of foreign relations and he repeated this wonderful of persian saying if your time is very secure prove your brotherhood ask for inheritance and as wise if it may be the americans let alone trying don't leave by persian wisdom they have their own philosophy out of the time being it's a philosophy of taking what they think is there is by force no there's a loss of fear is what's mine is mine what's yours is negotiable absolutely i'm just not the philosophy that i'm willing to to succumb to. you may not be willing to succumb to but how do you think what is the a factor of way of dealing with a bit because whether you like it or not you still have to live in a world where they still also feel you know is a significant mark well i think iran russia and a good number of other states are not prepared to allow this philosophy to become the ruling philosophy we believe in the rule of law we believe in the prevalence of

international norms we believe that you when you sign a treaty you need to abide by it these are what we believe in other words we will have the law of return that operate like that and between ourselves but what about dealing with the united states we need to otherwise it will be a jungle and be not prepared to live in a jungle. so i don't think russia is prepared to live in a jungle i don't think china is prepared and i think gradually that europe will stop accepting these diktats from washington sitting here is a little bit because our time is running out i know that you said before that you are not very impressed by the recent agreement that when israel and the united arab emirates as well as back rein on the establishment of full diplomatic ties why not . well there had been the very strategic secret connections for the past 15 years these really ambassador in washington.

no i mean put on twitter his picture you supplied the table. 'd of that and said i'm now happy that i can share with you a friendship that we have had for a long time so it was a friendship that they've had for a long time now they had a photo opportunity in the white house to help trump get reelected in florida that may serve that purpose but it doesn't serve people with minister personal or professional connection is one thing a full fledged state relationship is something else no diverse state relationship there are state relationships these relationships big kept secret not decided under trump's son in law pressure to make it public in order to help from play in order to give him a diplomatic victory that he needed. with his dismal record of foreign affairs so that he could show something that it's not only about trying because israel is now

offering its. newly found air france new technology vital technology investment up a change these deal also clears the way for the for the united states to sell more weapons to countries in your region is that the really that irrelevant for the interest of iran to minimizing the impact of that only $1.00 rising game package i'm saying that this was. a travesty of justice for the palestinians but it wasn't a major diplomatic accomplishment of these countries by persian gulf countries by 25 percent of total global weaponry and they will buy more beer i mean what have they done with this 25 percent of total global weaponry that they get i mean this make it 30 let's make it 40 let's make it 50 what good does it do that so it doesn't bother you at all that it does bother me that our neighbors are trying to buy security they have been trying to buy security don't

forget they tried to buy security from saddam hussein. and look they got with him they tried to buy security from the united states and they saw the united states simply just leaving them. in the cold without giving them any protection now they're trying to buy security from israel which cannot even protect itself against. palestinians now i think they're that badly mistaken they need to look inward they dig they need to look at their own people for legitimacy and they need to look at their own neighborhood for security now there are lots of speculations of who is going to be next and mansour donna. talked about as the next can trace your follow in the footsteps of the u.a.e. but everybody is definitely looking at the saudi arabia and i think. you can see

some subtle signs that the public opinion is being massage for the formalisation off of was really really the yeah the formalization of what is already there here i mean saudi arabia and israel have been cooperating with each other for years and doing that in the open is that do you think that's a likely scenario of it actually happened i don't think it's important i don't think it's important i don't think it's affects the situation what is important is that or i mean they never help the palestinians any bit but we're still not only honest. i mean the entire problem in the middle east is the trampling of the rights of the palestinian people you need to measure any development. really that yardstick. that's the struggle the resistance of the palestinians towards. continued occupation i do not think saudi arabia u.a.e.

or battery we're strong supporters of the palestinian cause other than lipservice job i don't think it will have any practical impact on the difficulties in our region the difficulty in our region is because of expansionism aggression and of boy edition of the rights of the palestinian people now. president likes to compliment himself on his. new york approaches to diplomacy and both his israeli and arab colleagues i willing to give him that i mean they're willing to give him praise the 4 are while securing their own interests because i think they're not losing out there. i know that iranians are proud people but there is also a 2nd degree of satisfaction in taking your alamy for a ride trump wants a deal with iran the you know that i know that everybody knows that why not let him

having it on your terms there is a principle that you want a deal that is not a photo opportunity we have 159 pages of a deal it's not a 2 page document that he can show in front of cameras and i think it is it is in everybody's interest i'm not saying it is only in our interests or only in u.s. interest it's at the it doesn't have everything that we wanted it doesn't have everything that the united states wants. otherwise it would have been an instrument of said by iraq or by the united states well you cannot expect the united states to sort and you says that they cannot expect iran to sort and so i think president trump what he means your he wants to call it trumped you call it trumped you but it is the best that can be achieved this is and i'm not going to risk something that i

negotiated i know how hard it is i'm i'm not just reading to allow something that was extremely difficult to negotiate to evaporates just you know order to satisfy somebody is equal but minister with all due respect my question is not so much about the americans but about these israelis and the iraqis do you think it's a good strategy thing it's. a clever policy of securing your country's interests while giving your pardon there are adversaries something that he wants and at the end of the day afore all pass he said is not bad big of a prize for securing and getting what you want why doesn't iran try something like that i don't speak for israel but i certainly don't believe that the united arab emirates got what they require what they need for their people had they gotten a bit of their own promise a lot you know well to homelessness or promises promises or boards of you don't think that israel will persevere that sharing technology is giving up

a change of blooming arab neighbors into that. israel i'm sure you here believe that they will do that come on israel that with our talent and money we can get a lot of them are they willing to take that or they're going to buy that. i guess ok minister it's always a pleasure talking to you thank you very much for your time and best of luck and thank you and thank you for watching. next week on worlds apart.

join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sport i'm sure. i'll see you then.

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