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hello and welcome to cross talk they're all things are considered on fuel about the 1st presidential debates exhibit lots of like but not much heat one can argue neither candidate last me neither one a perfect reflection of the nation's politics with the campaign coming to an end do the debates have any meaningful impact is there such a thing as an undecided voter. to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest leon jones in panama city beach she is an attorney and a former state director for bernie sanders and 2016 and in dallas we cross to

george c. he is a businessman conservative political leader as well as a former senior advisor to marco rubio's 2016 presidential campaign or across up rules in effect that means you can pick up any time you want and how it's appreciated always go to georgia and dallas that as i said in my introduction you know one could argue maybe you want to agree with me one can argue that it was a dead heat neither side won either candidate won or lost in that debate but for very different reasons here i want to focus on this program the impacts of this debate and as it may impact the final results on november 3rd so obviously you're a supporter of donald trump how did he do in this debate. well i've i agree that this was a hard one to analyze i think if you look at the kennedy nixon the bait which was outcome determinative in the rain in cardiff bay which is outcome determinative i don't think this one's going to do that i think it was so canny and so

unprecedented in what i would say a negative stance even got the former vice pres in the united states calling the president a clown and race as the dog whistle blower and then you've got the president just being a bully the whole time and interrupting all it's time and it was not a gentlemanly debate it was not a reasoned debate and i'm not sure who's going to change their minds if there's 5 to 15 percent of the electorate in the middle that might be willing to change their minds if they change their minds for vice president biden i think they're going to be even president strength in a negative sense and that it's it's overwhelming and it's intimidating and it's somewhat frightening and if they change their minds president trying i think it's going to be because the vice former vice president looks people and fumbles around sometimes and they want somebody strong and clearly in control of his faculties in the president in the oval office again but it depends on how they perceive man's behavior and it was very stirring and it was hard to watch even though it was like watching a train wreck replaying crash that's an understatement it was hard to watch i mean

i obviously because i live in so many different time zones away. i saw the reporting of it and i had to stop many many times to get through it many times it was done i mean it that i was also wrestling ok in bad form ok in my opinion go ahead. it was cringe worthy it was truly truly cringe worthy and it was embarrassing as an american it was embarrassing i don't care which side of the aisle you're on i had hoped as a democrat that biden would have come in prepared this is not unusual for donald trump to interrupt it's not unusual for him to go off topic and so i had hoped that president biden would have been prepared for that and simply stuck to the important part that the american wants to hear the policy issues yet he still got pulled down ensued outruns mud pit and the name calling and even even saying shit that bothers me right to speak in front of children's classes all the time and if you

accidentally say set up an elementary school class has they will tell you shut up is a bad word so we can even have our children watch this debate to get a good example of what american politics is supposed to be abaft and honestly i would have to say that both sides were losers and this one i don't think anyone would have swayed either side the only people who may have been sway are people who say listen i don't want to vote i'm not a normal voter but i do this now because they think they're going to court the election if i'm going to get involved and i think that they were convinced to stay on the sidelines yet again i think that that is probably the most important observation that i've heard from anyone looking at these debates it's not the partisans it's the people it is it worthwhile and i think you're spot on on that point there but you know george let's let's kind of go break it down a bit here i mean one of the things i took away the weekend we can talk about p.p.i. trips i don't think it really adds to our conversation here but i mean one thing to

trump you know when when when the moderator chris was asked you know about packing the court i mean that was unbiased part that was an obvious obvious deflection he wouldn't answer he's been asked for any during the debate he wouldn't ask and trump was absolutely right because binds terrifying to the left his the progressives you sarah. 5 of them ok he needs to get across the line with them now and the issue of courts are very very important for very strong conservatives and for progressives here and i thought that that was a real weak point because i would like to think that the 3 of us are far more interested in policy then the the the personalities that that media love because they get ratings but i mean you know on the policy issue you know biden deflected very very often go ahead. well they both did actually it's an interesting election is typically in the primaries the candidates tacked are the rider far left of name

which are either in and then in the in the in the general election they move into the center trying to appeal to independents and moderates and people who don't track politics all the time and last night they did both of them did exactly the opposite of the former vice president as you said basically refused to say he went back to court in the end he also did a lot of the law and order baiting that trumped bush in any but the president also when he was asked what is read so you can damn white supremacy groups and our right time actors he said i'll give him who ever you want but then he didn't express leitz do that so he dodged that when do i was stunned by bo i understand what you're trying to do but i think this is appealing to the 10 to 15 percent of both parties that are highly partisan way off in the in the rush so to speak and not the fair way of american policy views i don't think it's good for the country and i don't think it's back to be either. don't you think you think it moves the needle when it comes to thin november i mean it has to be

a very and my introduction is that are there any undecided voters out there i think you know considering not is because i'm highly critical of by and his campaign for its lack of substance here and their campaign isn't actually very effective because they're focusing it all on trump but in my disc when you become president i really would like to know what he stands for we really joked ok so what about the undecided oh hey. so you know i think this election does a lot to say that we don't know what bind is for we've seen him in the white house for 8 years we've seen him in congress for so many years you know what biden is for he is for expanding health care he is for ensuring that there's public safety on the streets i think that it is clear i don't think he has to reestablish his record at this point we know who he is and he's trying to tie himself with president obama bethink for the undecideds again i think it's going to be this push to actually get

out there president trump made the most important statement in the opening last night he said elections have consequences nicole's lawyer they do well when he said they're related to the courts you know i was a quarter of bernie sanders in the 2016 election and it was really hard after the primary to convince the burnie supporters who are who are condit i want them as undecided they were angry decided right and they were voting against the establishment of the democratic party i think that this last night i spoke to them spoke to them to see what we did in 2016 by being so angry at hillary clinton we simply can't afford it now because elections have consequences and the courts right now it's one of the biggest consequences that i think it's finally starting to make sense to people who didn't realize how important it is to look at you know george like one of the things i've been very critical of the of the trunk and ministration and its campaign during this medical help crisis here and the

deep recession that so many people are feeling is that the trip in ministration could have very easily gone to the left of joe biden but they refused to do it where is congress where are they right now they're not at work ok and there's a lot millions tens of millions of people suffering donald trump you know maybe executive order on pharma like you know i gave 2 days before the debate you know 30 . some days before the election and it was a really lame attempt to say this is what health care is i mean again from a policy point of view i think both parties have failed the middle class miserably in dealing with the pen demick in dealing with the economic turndown and this was a golden opportunity for trump but he still surrounds himself with all the wrong people from wall street these libertarians that make such a small part of the party it's a missed opportunity and i and i said we saw it with both conventions we were the

middle class they were largely absent it was for special interests i don't react to that george. yeah i disagree with that i think the republican convention highlighted african-americans and hispanic americans and recent immigrants and lots of people that don't love wall street or the far right libertarian type fringe i thought it was actually very well. i would compliment chris wallace he's been having with a ring of fire for his role in the last lateral one thing he didn't attack the president on health care because the president and his team don't have a health care plan and that was. i would also come back the elections have consequences come at the lead onset i totally agree with that and i'm i i would say that in 2016 that the republicans control the senate and they have the ability to not merit borrowing on consent because they control the senate and this time around the president won the election when he 60 and he's got the rights of nominating a justice and the senate's got the right to hear testimony and vote on it that's

the way that elections work in the it's the way it is and if democrats want that ability they need to win this election and they need to win back the senate is someone that i would make one mother other comment it's a sad point in our american life that any calling barry is probably going to win. appointments and sprinklers just as 551495048 as if she had been a nominee with rick bader ginsburg was was nominated or when sandra day o'connor was nominated she'd be and night by fire a 1000 she's just exceptional and she's all american she's exceptional and you can disagree with her on on on the war her judicial temperament the way she handles or her court room but she's brilliant and she's very principled and she will any and every person if we look at the exit vice and consent the question is she a good jurists it's not her politics that's what we've gotten to and that's what we've got a place where we are because we look to the courts to decide things when it was congress in congress their collective group of cowards just throw it up to the

court throw it up to par they don't want to catch anyone you know that's one. happening here all right. what i want to push back a little bit and been actually kind of agreeing with you is that you know with the convention i think both conventions missed the class issue both and i and i criticize republicans they played i get it terry paul identity politics and you may disagree with me but i find that to be a dead end because class is a very important issue and i guess you don't hear very many conservatives like me talk about class very much go ahead before we go to the break i agree 100 percent you know simply having i did politics have minorities actually convention does not mean you're talking about class there are a lot of middle and lower class white americans that he should be looking to $750.00 as the federal income tax that our president pays when people who are on welfare who are on full welfare can pay more than that and federal taxes in

a year says a lot you know it was funny you know i think about this as history repeats itself during the revolutionary war and making up america that order to split poor whites and african-americans who were here whether they were free or in slave the rich white land owning americans made the poor whites feel like they were special right leg up like i hold that we have to go to heartbreak after heartbreak we'll continue our discussion on the 1st presidential debates they are. going. is you'll be a reflection of reality. in a world transformed. what will make you feel safe from.

tyson nation full community. are you going the right way or are you being so. direct. what is true what is faith. in the world corrupted you need to descend. to join us on the death. forum akin to shall i say. welcome back to crossfire your all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the 1st presidential debate.

ok let's go back to lou dobbs when you were making a point before i went to break please go right ahead so the point is that it's been the foundation of american history that we separate the poor from the rich right and the way they do that is that the rich make the poor not focus on the real issues at the convention they do not focus on the real issues how much are you paying your tax dollars how much is your health care cost how much money are you getting back as a worker things stay the same where the minimum wage the federal minimum wage is still low these are issues that they did not focus on at either convention i agree with you wholeheartedly and they. missed the boat and they're missing a lot of americans and then their money in the wires for having these this in-fighting like we saw in the debate last night that dez not ever not a single question truly assure us what the middle class needs to hear coming out of

the pandemic of asa works you know george i mean if you look at polls and it's bipartisan you know it's either the 12 or 3 issue is health care but both parties they want it they want trink they want to. go on the margins of changing this adding this difficult there's no real i'm sorry but there is no serious conversation about health care done is absolutely right you don't like progressive friends on the program here is that if there was a time to think about health care it is now and it's not being fought about there's so there's so many no's qualifications i really think there has to be a major rethink and as everyone likes to say reimagine it ok because this is the time to do it go ahead joe. i'm going to come back to health care i want to address your middle class and lower middle class comments i disagree with you both on that i think trump won last time around because the anglo middle class lower middle

class and poor voter in the midwest thought the democratic party had brains that didn't politics and abandon them and that's why they all voted for trump and i think this election i just believe it all ok i think it was just saying i didn't i was making i think i wouldn't you know it was the trade issue see the media missed it the democrats missed it it was trey and i want people understand your student trade policy it hurt them and you know what george lived on in her white people black people and brown people all people that hit ok i'm not we aren't i would argue that. trump's made some inroads with his bank you know african-american voters his karma not much but enough that maybe the election but i would argue the election's going to this time around whether those voters that's a brain you're ohio minnesota wisconsin michigan or it went with route last time or do it again this time around and if you look at some endorsement seems received the unions have been indorsing in the police forces and endorsing in all these groups

that are traditionally very democratic so that's an interesting phenomenon to how but step back and forth is going to be a big factor backing up here i do think the democrats are taking note here much more seriously than republicans and i think most democrats you're active in their party want medicare for all and the problem with the seriousness of that proposal is that will bankrupt the country i wouldn't read it republicans and have not been serious on health care he you look at when they control the senate the house and the presidency and they've been saying repeal and replace for 7 years else and they have no plan to do that and that's just that's an abomination that's terrible policy when paul ryan in charge of the house they should have a comprehensive plan that they are lies in is the worst why. don't you even get me started going back to you know you know what you used to work rats. you know a little undone here the current system is bankrupt the people left right and center ok so you know i find that to be on the point of scare tactics but both of you have said in the context of this debate in one and i in and it gives me hope

the only hope is that there is a real mind and going on right now ok we have a progressive on the program that thinks they don't have a terry in politics those who are you have a conservative like me on the program that think we have to think about single payer if it's these parties that are doing this ok donald trump ran as as a as an outsider ok he ran as a populist he's governed like jeb bush ok and then joe biden i would argue doesn't really have very very helpless strongly held views but he has this coalition he has to keep together and he's got his fingers crossed that the burning cross and i say that in a positive way will stick with them that there is a real life meant going on here and i think that this is an opportunity for all of this because the i can't say it on this television station that s show that we saw last night tells us that that are all it takes is is i think corrupt and it is it

is. rotten in many many ways here and just on this program in the short few minutes that we have kind of come up with other ideas that don't necessarily follow the strictures of the of the parties go ahead george. i would say that last night was an abomination and it was un-american and it would go against what we do here in texas which is worse competitive and we fight as hard as it's anybody in the world i would argue we do is gentlemen and his legs and we treat the other person with respect and dignity and i joined this procession thank you people haven't been erupting and they've been letting the other person think what they want to and we're missing that american public life right now a lot of people are going to follow after traumas that havior and and model what he does and saw the former vice president to that last night which is this or any on both sides the aisle and i think that's a bad thing for our country you know it's it got really personal. hunter biden was

mentioned and then trump's it's ok and i thought you know chris wallace i have moderate debates all the time tonight i'm going to give a sly pass the chris wallace it's not is easy as people think however he did was deferential to biting when it came to his son because we could compare hunter by the tax issue with donald trump i don't understand why more people are outraged by the tax story because that's how rich people get away with paying taxes not donald trump ok of course he does it everybody knows he doesn't tax no designed to help people like him there was not enough outrage about that and on the other side was by the senate you know but he's smart and these other stories here this is not this is not a conspiracy this isn't this is not all made up it's not a fox news story you know the hunter by people with the help apparently i mean he

was the son of the sitting vice president of the united states i think you have to be some accountability there and that's what you know when we look back in 2016 i think that issue played to trounce advantage you know accountability looking at the weak candidate that hillary clinton clinton was and i think you know you know look at the tax code and looking at pay to play are things that did the american people who need more transparency. i agree i'll say i'm the progressive side i don't think anybody cares about what biden sends did that's a it's a talking point is a talking point it's a deflection it's a way to not talk about something that is more substantial to talk about what is going on in america right now the tax issue however goals to the core of who we are let's not for get down child has run several bank run companies so that then find out that you are leaving a giving out truly that does help to talk to live discuss now that we've kind of flip sides on many issues conservatives used to be this school conservatives

they've always done in my opinion both at the state level and the national level a much better job of watching our budget making sure we're not spending money on things that we don't he spent not anymore not in 2020 they spent so much money but it is a personal affront to know that we're spending federal tax dollars and troops not putting in its fair share trust me i love if i can get a write off for these hairdos when i come on this show but i can't because my counsel is that that is not legal so it's not legal for me is not legal for that is an american issue what happened with hunter biden is not an issue that i think many americans care about and you're exactly right when he called i am not going to push back a little bit about that i mean you're in a privileged position and you couldn't you can cash in on your privileged position not because of your merits or or a bit of abilities here i think that is an affront to most americans particularly today when so many people were took

a told that they were going to lose their job through no fault of their own and then you know they're left holding the bag because congress said well you know it's not bad enough it's not a national emergency it's there 40000000 national emergencies out there and then hunter biden is sitting in his jaguar or earlier got millions and millions of dollars for being the son of the vice president i think that is a salient issue here george around maybe as well i think about. it ok i have been if i may say what one thing i may say that may be true and so you see all of trump's children walk in who have a job in the white house who are still making millions of dollars where he did not at best buy his business at that same exact debate and so you may want to bring up biden sam but then you got to look at the entire tritely but i don't i don't have to bring up the truth from children because they're under a microscope all of the time ok and they accept it ok i would say differently about the biden family george we're rapidly running out of time going yeah i've got 2

responses that certainly are both very poignant things to bring up 1st of all with don's making a lot of great points for progress you might say which night you know if both parties are spending like drunken sailors in their interesting recent poll at this point and i want to go back to the medicare for all policy democrats that biomass will bankrupt the country a lot faster than pattering right now we're going to go bankrupt anyway with with entitlements overwhelm our tax revenues and i will come back to the corruption or monk presidential camerons we've come a long way from harry truman in lisette scranton to write their memoirs to point our party can say they were getting down to where they can pay their bills and to be nonpartizan it started with ronald reagan when he got made $2000000.00 and everyone since then has cash in on the presidency and 100 bides behavior is a thought is an abomination and i think it's very relevant and i'm tired of these powerful strong leaders in washington cashing in on public service it's disgusting i don't care where it's republican or democrat ok i'm going to end this program

very rarely just like i have so i think i have something to say that i think is really important is basically to live down here is that it is an interesting deer then in january and february you remember you hearing we don't have any money for it there's not enough money ever since then there is a lot since $98.00 oh all over the place to pay for things and to pay for the rich . each to make sure they're safe ok bailed them out 1st ok and then when the people the people that were in on the frontlines you know they're the ones that need it the most and you know what they're left holding the bag and i think that's an abomination the debate reflects the state of the politics of the country that's all the time we have here i want to thank my guests in panama city beach and dallas and i think our viewers for watching us here are to see you next i mean remember.

by the pandemic no certainly no blood is just glad to nationalities. is the word we don't have with everybody we don't look like seeing the whole world beat to be. judged. come to a crisis like this and. we can do better we should know better. everyone is contributing to their own way but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever the challenges created with the response has been massive so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we're in it together.

join me every thursday on the alex simon schill and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports i'm showbusiness i'll see that. i'm right with all of the running with you this is. what i know. now because it moves. me out. you know. it's all snow balls because. nothing's down it's because. i love to be down because it's me it's me i don't know it's in dallas because they miss me how i knew i wasn't down because it makes me how can i do that because he

needs to be hot and i wasn't down because it makes me happy. yeah. i mean i'm kind of i'm. tied down. this is a story from gonna about people who just enough to. my name is such. i'm almost as jackson. seems to be i'm joined by c.s. screwed by using a wall quote i'm a trainee teacher so what's.