yes and the coming war on china and exposing imperial war crimes from southeast asia to that in america and beyond on 4 weeks of a london old bailey hearing that amnesty international claims could end global press freedom and why nato nations media appear to have tried to cover it up all the more coming up in this special episode of going underground with one of the world's greatest journalists and filmmakers john pilger who has been present at the extradition trial of wiki leaks founder julian assange is that has been taking place at london's old bailey john thanks for coming back on before we get to the testimony before we get to the amnesty international 40 n.g.o.s being barred the cia the burgling of lawyers if no one knew anything about julian assange to wiki leaks they might have known about the collateral murder video and just seeing the soldiers american soldiers killing journalists why is julian assange is the one who is at the old bailey being tried not all those people around the world that whose

war crimes he exposed it with the leaks were lucrative bring about china or russia or one of the official enemy is but fine but this was about us he gave us too much truth he made those who committed these 4 crimes he forced them to look in the mirror it's them it's you that's is unforgivable crime. but you see we don't commit these crimes we don't shoot people. in who are unarmed we don't gun them down on the. we don't do oval thing that the wiki leaks. the wiki leaks video is told us plus so much else our politicians and in the present circumstances it's almost a mockery to say so politicians don't really love i mean our press tells us the

truth al media by and large few things wrong with that but by law. is a free media none of these things are true and the sonship is a son to represent what i would say is too much truth. it is the most important political trial of this century certainly one of the most important of my lifetime and it's been virtually blacked out by most of the sort of coal misnamed mainstream media is no surprise to me but when you sit in court and listen to some of the truly shocking evidence indisputable evidence the just the day the what i would call the medical day describing what a songe was gone through with the evidence of professor michael kopelman and

professor kate humphries both of them distinguish you're of psychiatrists talking about the way this single human being has been punished for telling this truth that if it goes if he's sent to the united states if he's extradited he'll find a way to take his own life. i want to get to the psychiatric reports in in a 2nd because goes the u.s. prosecutor is present there at the old bailey trial cause doubt on the on the prominent. dallas out they call i've never hood in this modern age when finally where recognizing the plight of mental illness how it touches so many of us and especially during this. coronavirus period.

the persecution q.c. . attempting to discredit professor kopelman said at the ends and describe mental illness is most lingering and such that you know it's like a victorian. as if it didn't happen well also the prosecutors said that he would be less likely to kill himself joining us on to be less likely to kill himself in the united states prison than he had belmarsh prison in london well of course yes. has he been in a u.s. person supermax i have. i've interviewed people in them they were described i think by edward fitzgerald q.c. the defense could see as a clean hell. and that says it perfectly the sanitized wonderfully scent of tar shining. and they are a vision of

a true brave new world and it's there as so many witnesses made clear he'd be subject to something cold sams it's an acronym for special administrative measures in which he'd be dropped in a hole and not seen again they said not solitary confinement in that in fact he would have access to things that isn't approaching q. shins arguing against this was not was was night against day it was so disingenuously didn't quite say it was a country club so it was it was so pathetic one rightly should be angry about it but that's the game they play. a song that's the whole the whole hearing shouldn't have happened it should have been thrown out we had evidence on the the 2nd last day that. a sundress being spied on by

a spanish security company almost certainly in the pay of the cia all his his confidential deliberations with with his lawyers and doctors had been spied on on record and that will be enough to throw doubt in the other famous. whistle blower case of daniel ellsberg in 1971 i think it was an ellsberg of course was one of the witnesses at the is saddam's trial. it was the fact that nixon had sent his thugs into daniel ellsberg psychiatrist's office trying to get some dirt on him the very thing. but the americans were doing in the ecuadorian embassy on assignment that in the trial was enough to throw the judge threw it out david narrow alleys of that case continues with david rose and you see global claim they were protecting julian assange as they were hired by the ecuadorian government to help it sure they goes and all the pig flying of afshan

describe his average day julian isn't just average day's average day at the moment i don't know whether he will be relieved once this thing is a. he is roused at 5 o'clock in the morning in belmont. he is stripped searched his shackled. presumably he's allowed to shower and have some prison breakfast he then in jewels. at least an hour in the hall of. in this torture his drive from belmarsh to the old bailey in walked his partner stella morris as described as something like an upright coffin i've seen it it's a great white circle around truck of course. and there's a small window at the top to look out to you have to stand rather precariously so

in this dreadful stop stop traffic and i've driven it from belmont to the central prim and all court songes taken in this in this box this this this prison. to to a court where he he sits in. or go out scorer door in which is his god and himself and the only way he can speak to his lawyers is to get down on his knees time and again i've watched him because where i've been sitting has been looking down on him he's got down on his knees to speak through a slit in the garage in the in the gloss. to one of the. lawyers at the back and she writes his message on opposed to the post it is then handed

through the body of the court to the barristers who are arguing the case against his extradition to an american oh all that's how he communicates with his lawyers it's actually slightly better than watergate was had westminster magistrate's court where he's actually in a glass cage he's known a gloss corrigible. who would deny it's a coffin that they carry out their private eyes outsourced british government just as. all brilliantly do you think that's the reason why judge or magistrate of it is of rates of didn't want amnesty international reporters without borders present i mean why were they not allowed in they've been tweeting furiously reporters without borders and amnesty all over mean it's good to see both those organizations. speaking up to many organizations and i'm not necessarily pointing the finger at both of them but a son should have been

a prisoner of conscience along with chelsea manning a long time ago it's good to see them protesting at at this outrage that they weren't allowed in the court will rebecca vincent to report is that voters went so far as to tweet against a b.b.c. journalist arguably well a b.b.c. journalist said you see the reason why. you view is may have to watch going on the ground to hear about this and not the b.b.c. reports daily from this trial of the centuries people have been calling it is it was a bit repetitive you know. the inane a-t. and the cynicism in that statement repetitive every day has been a description usually of hell all of the kind of hell that we keenly expose the kind of hell to which all of us have a right to know. which is now being imposed on the on the truth

teller himself and for that b.b.c. journalist to describe it as repetitive. doesn't quite leave me speechless but it leaves me with a sense that. it's over. with much of the media to watch this day off the day this extraordinary important trial telling us so much about. how those who govern us those who want to control our lives and what they are and what they do to other countries how they lied to us watch this day off today. and see none of that reporter door if you do see it reported you'll see something like. a sound told to pipe down by the judge on the day. he only did this 2 or 3

times i don't know how he kept his mouth shot. where he stood up and protested at at the evidence that was that was clearly. folse and and offensive to him that was the headline that was the story of the day we didn't get access what was the judge like this judge threw out vanessa brace of she declared against the defense so many times she imposed the guillotine of hall for now on the. on defense witnesses statement. and she gave. up to 4. to the to the prosecution for their cross-examination no i know cross-examination usually gets more time but the disparity between the 2 is absolutely well because the crown prosecution service will deny all of that john pilger will stop you that more from

one of the world's greatest journalists after this short break. the entrepreneurs' to our developers like trump's launchbury they take risks they are risking that these properties kids blow up and not be worth anything and value and that's what entrepreneurs do when they get taxed the government gives them tax incentives to be entrepreneurial to be property developers that's what those tax incentives are for to encourage entrepreneurs to go create millions of jobs by being property developers. join me every thursday on the alex salmond shill and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then.

welcome back i'm still here with journalist filmmaker and friend if we get leaks founder julian songe the guardian newspaper was referred to time and time again as. a member has an element of all being and david lee david lee who was and trusted the. secret. to. some of the wiki leaks falls and published it. and they published it in the book that he and he's been saying that julian assange manage or at least printing stories about it isn't being the problem because he didn't redact data from wiki leaks cables that were released that's in danger in people around the world what is me for interrupting but what has come through perhaps more powerfully than end of thing is that the son out of his way to protect

in 4 months to redact daniel ellsberg said he redacted 15000 files the distinguished investigative journalist nicky hague who worked with the soundtrack on this said watched him taking the most extraordinary proportions with with with the material doesn't just paranoid one thing to redact so much i would suggest those who didn't redact perhaps or only up the side certainly not on a sondre side are known for for years the extent to which truly on the saw went to redact and tried to redact and work through the night to redact and couldn't and wasn't allowed to. so much of this has come out in court and or to have been reported the one with the good you know the reporting about the guardian at the old bailey on its front page well perhaps the guardian has something to hide or even

something to fear and do you think do you think there are many people that many publications that feel this way i mean this is who no one is it telling the guardian directly do don't go over the it's a little i don't really want to concentrate the guardian's behavior through all this it's campaign of vilification against assad is the way they turned on the source they way they are because he wouldn't be part of the collusive club. has been a disgrace they know it's been a disgrace the way they published articles like the one that said that trump provides a poll manifold. and russians visited a son but it never happened there's been no apology from the guardian. i think.

it's not just the god in there were many of the newspapers that a found some actually behaved rather honorably i think i think it was good to hear from the investigative reporter. joining goods who was the investigations editor i think spiegel in germany. he spoke very clearly he also refuted the story that was saundra which is in the hopping liebl there's a son she. had had had said that. it was quite a good thing that some of these informants while home goods harding and lee were not at this dinner i put so songe was meant to have said this but john good's was and he said and said a son said nothing of the kind now judge parades wouldn't allow goods to actually

off of those words in court she cut him off. because of time well because i think the reason i stand corrected but i think the reason was that these words actually weren't in his written statement but he was telling the truth well we invite hiding and. the editor of the god you know on to explain its behavior i'm sure they'll deny completely in the secret agenda it has me said the joe biden the democrat contended full the presidency the united states says that julius ont was. was like a high tech terrorist he called him a cyber terrorist yes. well what would you expect. made trumped by. so the jump is on the rego visine doesn't know anything about we geeks it's not my thing i know there is something having to do with julie there's

a who's who knows what trump knows about who knows what he says is true that minute it changes the next i do know that what came out very clearly from these few days from story these few weeks in court was that. the son of his own trial for journalism. and the many other journalists have done exactly what he did and that is publish. the. iraq and afghanistan war diaries. one website published it well before even wiki leaks the guardian published the prosecutions and you know we time the prosecution did we can he says more reach even if we keep expose them later. but they they all publish the same thing

and the the 917 espionage act 103 years ago which has never been used against a journalist because in the united states the journalist and free journalism is meant to be protected by the constitution this is the 1st time. he's a speed it's been used the 1st time. and in my view if they get away with this if they send a sondre across the atlantic it point be the last time it will be the beginning who will be next. you did detect somewhat hopefully some kind of change in the last 2 days of this 4 week hearing at the old bailey can you tell me a little bit about. my sense was that british

justice has been so trashed by this trial unfold the so-called case management proceedings before it that an innocent man a man whose only crime has been biol infringement for which he received an unheard of sentence of almost a year in a maximum security prison with murderers and convicted terrorists. my sense is. they may feel it's going to be too far. because everyone going into that court lawyers those of us who have been in many courts around the world. can no longer poured the 2 words british and justice together. there hasn't been due process in this court that has been due revenge.

now certainly in the last few days there are periods the has appeared to be a loosening up allowing of for instance the the the defense and prosecution are allowed a whole month to make their or their closing statements but still they come make them they call it argue them in court they can only make them on paper. and judge parade's who will give decision. on the 4th of january on the stand. but the whole dreadful drama. and the. the ogling against the. what professor mills mills of the u.n. reporter on has called the arguing against the very fact the obvious fact

of the psychological torture of these journalist and publish publish who told us about war crimes he told us about war crimes he told us about how governments lies. that that's journalism has been recast literally has espionage not espionage in the country you come from or even the country you publish from this country but in another country the united states what has gone is solvent that american jurisdiction can cross any ocean and reach into any country any journalist just imagine a reverse it. china doing that china with its own equivalent sounds k.'s russia can you imagine the outrage it would never happen. i mean

obviously he's an australian citizen you were born in australia if he's extradited to have a genie a court to face 175 year sentence if found guilty i mean would you be able to be a journalist and he will. own pain of body. anymore i don't. i don't wish to give a frivolous sciences that's what i do and i regard it as a constant privilege but if this story israelis of course if it's always gave you information that pertain mostly us or curity i would try and find somewhere where we published i doubt whether these days whether a newspaper would do it yes it does make us a lot of let's put it also insert the sun just don't put the best journalists of don't. and they will know they've they've they've come into court to

you know people like nicky hogger and and and all those of come in to court patrick open to talk about journalism let's say that this is you know going underground of these extra spirits it really because obviously we publicize it and governing all of this i've got to ask you then given that it's a month now for that evidence then it's the decision by parades or in january for 2021 and then perhaps an appeal to the high court and so what how given that we now know about smuggled in razor blades into belmarsh prison by julian is it the suicide risk that he presents can he can he last. i don't know i can't speculate on that. i whenever i've seen. julian in belmont i mean when i 1st went to see him off to he was.

a he was thrown out of the ecuadorian embassy one of the 1st things he said was. i think i'm losing my mind and i found myself reassuring him that he wasn't his resilience. is absolutely astonishing and that he and that includes courage of course about what we did look good and i have to say to me. that some of the display of. the punishment has worked on him that some of the despair that he has had to endure during this. i think if he's freed he will recover he is a strong personality he's a political prisoner political prisoners as they they knew on robben island and so many other places can recover perhaps not everything but the substantial

part of them because they are there. for a principle. one of the things that's always been neglected about wiki leaks is that it started with a a rather moral way and that the politicians should be accountable that's that they should in a democracy they should be accountable to us i know he felt very passionately right from the beginning. so he has that he feels strongly about that. but it's been 10 need is all of incarceration of one convo naba and this last oh this loss. whatever dues 15 months in this dreadful place belmont has

just been horrendous it's it's just in the land of magna carta. what a what a shame. thank you and then he was being disturbed by the issues maybe ordering ad a british prison he hadn't gone to the samaritans the numbers down the about 7 the show will be back on monday 34 years to the day the world came to know about israel's alleged nuclear weapons for mordechai vanunu would be kidnapped in london's west square and amounts of money trouble breaking before solitary imprisonment there was a book and still not talked freely to the media until then keep in touch via you tube twitter facebook instagram and sound. my name is sucking on the social media as jackson did on seats which i.

put it on you know. when you know we've got to get. down to cause these proofs of the movement you know the nazis pizza box and i used that down sixty's to make any babies you know suits me to school on fridays to people. who. you know. who cooks people who comes to clubs during his child to feed a music that. i love to jazz because he makes me copy a love he dies because he makes me happy playing with him from. and when you go to church. even. if the cloth gets back off my ass i'm out a lot sooner and. you know.

i think. i'd. so i really would have to leave the band to be like the school they are to reports from the air strikes have destroyed a hospital and residential buildings also these between armenia and azerbaijan over the territory are now into their 7th day. and as find the main conflict zone is also president from a couple who tell us they support their country's military operation. i'm ready to defend my land. back as soon as possible and we will go to karabakh computer flying. also this hour donald trump is moved to a military hospital.