nice hint in that framing of the story in that case it was the promise and dollars and then when they found out it wasn't a perfect date they didn't call back and iranian accurately that's my understanding is that i was told by a producer and they want to so that's kind of scary and then to russia and the line and you've run a couple of features commentary pieces on the same line saying that she's and. that she's there as the weston governments have recognized her as a legitimate leader latvians is going to fire a schooling have president elect where is actually she has no legal standing and that she's like in venezuela and the problem was was that the producers that rang me sort of proof checks my answers before inviting me on and when i had made it clear that i don't think that the 2 cases are equivalent and made clear that i was going to say no i do think she is just meant they are without this program

spackling are elected that they didn't go back and so i wasn't invited to comment and so i'd say that you know if you're a journalist nearing an expert and their insights if their opinion and even that my opinion didn't seem to fit with the line then i was dumped and consequently you know there was a bias that. i read and you did me come across as censorship or even a critic that attaching a propaganda but it also strikes me as a very routine and very common way of pretty decent television news not only in russian but i think pretty much everywhere how common this dream interviewing of this sort at in the industry is and industry and if you're asking to t.v. stations in the west do they have a line and other interested in people with a period and then that's absolutely true and the obvious example is is fox news which absolutely has an agenda and is biased but. i'm an old school journalist in

so much as supposed to be about objective it see and you reach out to people who know what they're talking about and if they don't agree with you then you know the least you can do is debate and the prescreening of and says in my mind it's not it's not on i mean in so much is if you want to discuss a tricky issue like this and it is a valid question so i asked if she is and i'd say. you are someone like me and i'm going to say no you can put somebody else on who's going to say yes and then you've got it's bait that they would have to make up their own much more well let's start going down there is where i get this tendency of thinking whether the millionaire case is nose to david at this point i find it ironic that both the russian and the west commentators sought to present it as sad as is my done moment with all the theories and host a bad hashtag but you've been arguing that that being answered alrosa aren't

nothing like we've seen before what's made them stand out for you. it's in many ways a unique revolution the tendency to think it's in my down because again it's the people on the street mass demonstrations it looks very similar superficially is obvious and the western coverage international coverage i mean obviously the edits is going to reach for those kinds of parallels because the amount of information knowledge that you can assume in your readers is actually quite limited it's again when covering the smear of it at night that well it's not in the news every day and so. it was in the u.k. or the us would recognise this oh it's another color revolution here of the masses but on the street and so there's a natural tendency to frame the story in terms that your readers recognise but what we're trying to be in is to the more human story and surveillance of it and again the informed as watching this it's very. the difference i have that one of the big

chains one the biggest difference is ukraine is a very divided country between the rest of us in the east and the nationalists in the west and in russia it seems to be a universal across the society as well i mean from the middle since actuals immense through to the factories and university rejects its shank and the peacefulness of the process the votes just as the organizers took them off sky air and several made it absolutely clear they want to have a peaceful process and also the lack of geopolitics if you remember john mccain the u.s. senate was on my done making speeches about freedom we are with the people which was to say that we reject the democrats he elected president on a cove a show that everyone hates him and he was a terrible president. and appeal to the crowds there where is the protest is in better russia have made it clear that this is not

a chip this fight while i dream of you that probably has grass roots promise in our largely void of geopolitics i'm not trying to get. they really come across this way and they can't stay this way because they're clearly a lot of adjure is quite trying to use those products to advise their to political interests on all because the problem is better us or it's getting dragged in slowly to the chip let's stand off between russia and the west i mean just being in brussels you just met with microns she's just about to meet with merkel and my problem is you know they they have agendas too that they have problems with russia but you know we should highlight. was common saying i think just this morning and she was saying that we stand with this other. with the people and at the same time we believe look because knowledge is present president but at the same time we do know want to get involved as you know bloc politically in the. first english

language addressed to the e.u. said we want you know sort it out see these respect the sovereignty of the russia in other words this is a fight between the people and the present and then this is a tricky question because when at when you recognize be it tainted nature or even to try to project land the nature of the boat. you know when you question the legitimacy of the incumbent election can this case it's one thing but when you all annoying to see certain status and legitimacy to his competitor without actually having an accurate tally of the vote it's something else entirely and this is a disputed question i mean and you probably saw i had a long argument and so it's it was. it's exactly this point. say the beginning that we don't know what the actual result however there is some evidence in so much as there were 20 rebel owning stations released what they claim is the real results

and those shows that. won by an overwhelming majority. we did that could be that could serve as a proof that the day they did vote or the elections were a free and fair but you can't take that as a measure or as a pro of you know another person and as it is my my problem is that at its core it's ultimately sabse in teaching internal election german legitimacy with. an outside recognition and it's at its core you tell to me deciding for the people that's exactly what the question is doing here is deciding for the people isn't the e.u. with as much criticism of him as it provides isn't actually doing the same just siding for the dollar russian people that the issue here is to what extent are we comforted that he lost he claims he won 80 percent of the official result was 81 he has not behaved as a president who won 80 percent of the. no. aeration the rebel polling stations we

have numbers and those numbers and order those stations so a landslide they say and also there was this just a study on that based on the official results. says 70 percent and finally when the pro-government demonstrations have been organized no one sends up if he just met me and really did thanks again for the name of the recent tracking to the question of whether the look of shock is legitimate i'm not i'm not having that argument i think there are lots of additives that these these elections weren't free and fair and that he's legitimacy as a leader is that very very questionable my question is this friend again should meet a c.m. that he had not get that is a legitimate representative of the belarusian people that she had this biggest you need call shape let's say aid package as she did on behalf of the belorussian people and the reason i'm asking these is not because i'm trying to put you know a look at shock and the e.u. on this x.

a moral footing because the means that it is it used to procedure and and in this particular example it is not it is made to be serving assumptions the problem is their legitimacy as president you know they live in is as i say a going up president is that the sensor election committee it's all of that so there's no possibility of a recount and there's no possibility to check which means there has to be another election if we question that this is a this is something that the e.u. may well cross for but it's not doing that it is saying that we recognize directly or indirectly by accepting that he had lost at that behinds level in brussels that she is the leader and that if you are reading into it that the only people who actually recognized. what they said and if you have seen as careful about this they have not recognized that dissent is the just missy but only the latvians have said that she's actually president and then all due respect i mean. you can be and we

can become very legalistic here and both look at shankar and that the russian government has a long tradition of being legalistic that if you accept somebody of the highest level and enough to has been accepted by a but it has of all european institutions he's negotiating a package for democrats want to get out as being that annoyed her with the status even without you know putting a formal press release out i mean but it's also about symbols is it not yeah but you know i mean negotiating is a loaded term i mean she's gone suppressors and she's talking to them by. ask who exactly as who and that i mean as the a member of the nation house which is a self point buddy in order to negotiate but you know in that sense we see she normally won the elections or at least the likes of falsified i'm not sure but then they set up as a party to have a negotiation and then it's looking about transition government and a new x.

so this is being the position. and in that as the semi official head of the opposition movement is why she's being received in brussels but i wouldn't say she's negotiating in so much as there's no lethal force to any of these scuffs it's having to listen to these cow autocrats and be it imposing champions over democracy abroad altima to play into each other's hands because they provide for these and national and all geopolitics and grassroots democratic initiatives because look at how he can now go and say yes see they recognize her without even counting their ballots and you know that and they days out to get me you will be 1st on the ultimately reinforcing each of the narratives and. you know making so much difficult so much more difficult will all actors from grassroots movement to practice for democratic change without being accused of being branded as a for an actor and a great like i said in the beginning it is going. you know it's getting dragged

into this chip political game and at the same time sick enough. said in her comments that she has been a bit more demanding of the e.u. in so much that she thinks more pressure needs to be put on and so she is acting more presidential by taking that like she's made that decision on their own and she's she's not like it's anything at this point. but she she remains the face and europe remains convinced that not only were the elections totally legitimate she probably won the gold down the line everybody is saying that no one's going to make a president. that there has to be new elections and with those been ballots there has to be because you need a definitive number on how many votes you want and that simply is not available and yet we have to take a very short break now we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned.

my name is 2nd phase i'm on social media as a jackson wanted our thesis and. put it on there. and you know we've got to get it out down to confident. enough to move. them and i feel good and i use that down to make it a date easier and also to quadratics to people. who. come before. or. do the he's trying to fit life

to music but. who does because he makes me happy. he does because he beats me up you play beautiful now you can dance and. when you go to it's really nasty. to the bad guys and it's because it's back up and i ask you a lot sooner because words in public on the. bass parts. that i doubt. you. are.

welcome back to worlds apart a good band a race and a change here for b. and i am telling used up when i want to tragic on and other music bomb to get us on in september and i'm talking about the elijah poisoning or where a russian opposition politician looks a number only we not only triggered all the mail year and narratives in both russia and the west but i think it actually made us seriously undermine the war changed the post cold war relationship between russia and germany there is now a real prospect of a hold in the construction of the north stream pipeline ad if that happens if that comes to pass i am absolutely sure that the russian or russian german relationship will qualitatively change now that you are a long time russia watcher when you are presented to be bemused like that it's so many complications and the underground currents how do you how do you go about

making sense. well be any we tend to focus on the business the economics and it's a nice frame of reference because you know it's like the follow the money thing if you say the issue of the north stream there's a lot of let's. and people said repeatedly that the u.s. is looking you know now they're producing gas in excess and they want to export their energy clearly the commercial aspects of this story play in this story and the issue with no stream is. basically that it cuts ukraine out of the transit routes from russia and western europe feel like russia's been bullying ukraine but if you look at the economics i mean that talking about energy security however. in the seventy's eighty's russia was responsible for 70 or $0.80 europe's gas that's foreign in the meantime to about 3540 percent so europe is already diversified away

from russian gas and that having this new i plan the most stream to that russia will to live in exactly the same amount of gas as it's and it is now so there's no increase in dependency on russia the problem is the and he security issues because when they went through the pipeline to ukraine because of the terrible relationships between russia and ukraine and because of ukraine being effectively bankrupt it couldn't pay its gas and gas from send off in 2006 and people are taking this as a political action whereas it was actually an economic one and germany the reason why they key in on this pipeline is actually increases their energy security because it goes directly from what it is it is a clean clear that they are so keen on these pipelines anymore because in marco hit herself as quite and in the end if there's evidence that there is such at all

sure going to be. allowed to poisoning or somebody like the bali and the set huge implications huge an economic terms. what does it tell you that was dramatic i mean medical suggested she didn't say explicitly she's jested. that no strain to pipeline may not be complete because of. his asking for the kremlin you know to be accountable of the self accounts it's what actually happened which is news and i see said i mean this whole affair open about his poisoning good mom. dramatic change in attitudes because matt the man who doesn't have a very good we're a working relationship i mean they both have to deal with the geopolitics but all such i mean as a major investor russia has literally 10 times more companies working in russia than any other european is more than all the others put together. and if that relationship changes if. it's like now we're going to do it the u.s. and e.u.

entity rather than german russian and say that's amazed change and that's a major blow to russia i think they not only wheezing stories a very particular kind of story because it falls into a very special category for me that characterized by 2 features why that is extreme visibility everybody has heard about it and the 2nd one is very little no ability there are very very few established facts and the most critical data this case now all these test results i'm being held by germany and the test results and the formula of the allowed to poison them being held by germany even though one would think that one of the most revealing things would be to compare the test results that not only had in russia and windows test results and when that were produced when he was just not entirely true i didn't i didn't want to possibly hold germany back i checked into this that the issue here is now which is actually a military. nerve agent chemical one the responsible authority is the the

international organization chemical weapons and that what happens this is not known it becomes a by last way shoot everything has to go through the i.p.c.c. and that germany has submitted that information and mr is a member of the organization and is entitle to access the data through the o.p.c. w. so as far as the protocol is consent germany and russia have nothing to do with this now but it will be c w a's are very controversial are going to say sure because immediately you know what i'm getting both here is this. call squeeze anything and the old be a legend das stories of using chemical weapons in syria and that you know better than i do that then number of western scientists who work mediocre c.w. and who are on record to die means on record complaining about the pressure put on them by western security agencies to provide the result favorable to that

conclusion so you don't trust based on the overriding you don't fret trust the russian process how inclined he tries the o.p.c. w. protest and given the history of that are going to say shit and then roll it has been playing in these geopolitical games between russia and the west i grant you their p.c. is obvious but despite its history and has had problems in the past and that undermines it's just missin his authority. nevertheless everyone signed up to this chemical weapons treaty it's the one that's in force and is the one that has to be for that and it's a good situation and then you can ask questions as to you know whether they're playing again super scoopers. i'm done and if i'm putting on its suit school that you know i'm aware of the reports that it's actually fooling down in the past and that raises a question i've written that one that isn't that you literalistic a position for germany to take in duty if you are so concerned about human rights about the yeah you know you'd be use of chemical weapons out on the character of

europe about their russia's track record of dealing with opposition figure is it something about germany i mean germany's nothing but bureaucratic i mean they're. very elastic and they're doing this by the book which is released it says the o.p.c. 72 and then the protocol say that it has to be checked independently but to other people which was france and sweden. they present no it's just me i would agree i say why not share the dates directly with russia because it would be just a right not just something joint investigation i mean you can have russian and german investigators on both sides. yes and that would mean you must be kind of the red tape and increase the transparency of the time i see a 100 percent with you on that i think because we want to miss this like you said this i mean the consequences of this could be significant and if thanks very much to him in russian relations so you don't want that nobody wants that and by sticking to the parts of the book you know i see increased tensions and it is to my

mind i'm not really clear why they are sharing it but nevertheless the protocols are very clear in the o.p.c. to germany's doing exactly what it's supposed to ok let's move to the fairy story have all be of the month that i want to ask you about and it's the. they renewed poor bit when i was there but john and i mean and i am absolutely and taken aback by by the cameras or what is going on because. i think this whole conflict shows the degree task nature off in full wars because i don't know if you've seen the other day but that leaf went on television accusing a person on the prime minister i mean you know being a puppet the sorest question you know that he was the leave all be a dictator assy any of that matter is he in the in the case of a territorial conflict that didn't show that. you know we're all so taken aback by this narrative of you know democracy purses that talk receive sattar at that even

when they have nothing to general parties immediately employ dance here or you know get somebody on their side and name calling between as it goes on and i mean yeah i mean it's been going on for decades the whole oh i'm not going to kind of back issue has been rankling since the fall of the soviet union and the propaganda. presidents in both countries have been using it as a political tool to rally national feelings and ensuring elections and what have you and it's been festering we i was in i suppose on so it's the russian agency and they were complaining that in be any we have the news of armenia next as about john and could we not move it to the magazine that was saints or did. this is insane but it just highlights me you know how the embassy the scene that's so when this fighting begins it's natural that they start calling each other names it's got

very emotional very suddenly both calling each other when it means but using familiar themes to you or attract support to decide and one of the one of the other things that struck me is how little coverage there is both in russia and europe about turkey's role in all of that because undoubtedly both brussels and the girl in moscow extremely concerned about the role turkey is playing essentially adding that i stand by john on that i'm not making any secret of that secretary who came up pretty quickly. and it was everybody because turkey here has the rhetoric has changed that so he's always been a supporter as a potion and that. and so he supports it in principle but not at a gun has come out he's basically saying they're going to put supports admits arrest. and then that raises also support them so he's a member of nato of course. and i mean use member the lecky was your organization

was russia so there's a possible scenario with sex and the russians so just stop fighting and like 5 maids. i mean these things that we floated none of that is actually very like this well you couldn't that's not likely but there are family day armenia officially accused turkey at all far shooting down its plane over its own territory now nobody took it seriously and that everybody is sort of treating it as a fake without admitting to it that none of the sides has also released and that none of the radar data that they are in possession i mean. i don't really sure that that something like this is like a serious peeing often a guy gassed in russia's last military alliances really all the cards biggest you need seems like all being all the parties and trying all the warring parties i'll try to draw as much support in as they can i mean i think the end of this is definitely going to be to politico i mean the thing with the likes of security and

i so that particular night super takes you from a tank of turkish territory not military. soldiers are killed in the only or anywhere else outside sticky then the fight doesn't get treated so you know that's why those consensus less likely but as you say everybody is reaching for that you have political power as opposed to on sticky and i mean it's a russia and i think the resolution of this is this going to be a nasty would it's going to go on for maybe months as john in an already rejects it's. almost as if it's mediate because the fighting is too early on that people are now battling to see what territory they can get and i think when the fighting settles down and the lines are drawn and people realize that they're not going to move forward or backwards then they're going to send to the other players but he has serious interests in the region so does russia is actually friends with both as a john and i mean. they want to see a resolution to this but then there's

a lot of cheering political capital to be done in the negotiation that follows between russia and even the other well that it's been a fascinating talking to you we have running out of time to have to put an end to it now but thank you very much for sharing a part of it and if mr president you'll call what she has hope to hear again next week on a world apart. always be polite never engage with a negative aided or confrontational also. don't get into

any conversation or start answering questions just ask for an attorney. to survive and territories. definitely don't want to be going to try to jump on cops. you're more likely to walk free if you're rich and guilty or if you're poor and. you've got 2 eyes 2 ears and one mouth. so you should be seen in here and a whole lot more than you're saying if you don't take that advice easy going to dig yourself a hole. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then.

the week of hostilities between armenia and azerbaijan brings devastation in a go and i care about the region and beyond of votes from the front line. to massive explosions in the very center of the city 250 millimeter caliber so it is a move. massive rocket. russia and france say syrian militants are pouring into that conflict zone instead of on the back you trade accusations of the foreign mercenaries. i'm not here to slice everybody knows he's a liar there's nothing smart about you joe what do you she was a reason excuse workers so your number to go to the 1st presidential debate before the u.s. election descended into name calling and interruptions the 2nd round however is now

in doubt that donald trump.