that's the region of my corner should be a part of there by john to be you know within the within the territory by john. and it's ethnic make the exactly it's ethnically armenian the armenians were going i'm happy about that that this would be a part of i mean but he decided to be a part of us there by john in large block because the bolsheviks was seeking to appeal to the muslims of asia and also the muslims of the of what became the u.s.s.r. and in particular to turkey. at that's right and the nascent bolshevik regime was making great efforts to. keep turkey happy. so that back when it was set up now of course it didn't really matter so much within the u.s.s.r. because everybody just did as they were told by the leadership in moscow but when it when the soviet union broke up in their completely chaotic appalling

way then of course these national issues. because it was one thing to be for the armenians on the border guard about the about of us led by john which was within the soviet union and it's quite another thing to be part of us there but john which is now an independent state. i mean really going on since since the breakup of the soviet union one of the things that makes it different than what we saw from the original complex something out of the end of the soviet union was in the late eighty's early ninety's i want to be unimpressed to see you and this case both countries are relatively well armed now. even though azerbaijan has significantly more well because of oil and russia is supplies the arms to both countries more or less here but the difference in this case this time around is it's becoming much more international ice to. he is playing a major role here and

a lot of people are very critical of turkey's role here israel is involved others want to pull in iran this is the internationalization of it if it were internationalize it would be a repeat was seen a number of times this is what makes it different this time. well you're absolutely right i think. a lot of congress just behaving irresponsibly intuition to this conflict. i would just suggest you compare the statements of president and the statements of the gravel and the gun just opened this says i code blue support everything in azerbaijan thinks it makes sense to do it for its security i mean what kind of gasoline to do it is that so there is certainly irresponsible on the side of turkey. why did it become possible turkey has not behaved

so responsibly in during the last conflict and in 1940 basically with the big 3 or one media well i think the reason is basically what happened in the last i would say 1015 years just let me remind you when turkey syria in 2000 you haven't 1012 open everyone reports of the western press reports of the turkey supported you know the terrorist groups that entered syria from the north it was not a secret nato was on the side of turkey let me remind you of that when c.v.s. down turkish fighter planes always in their tree in the beginning all the war quite legally because the turkish fighter plane was on the syrian the syrian air space nato even had a crisis meeting they were deciding what to do in order. iran you could

just a few years later in 2000 i guess 19. when turkey moved against the american al ice in the north of syria against the kurds that nato was completely different they started talking about ever gone trespassing the borders up sovereign state of syria which they didn't care about just a few years ago right so it was a complete change. unfortunately after gone kind of you know that you owe it so if you do it's being said that the west does not object to you or you are free to act as you want as you want basically in this situation he decided that it was just the bow tie him to to give support to as everybody. reached there as everybody jumped back to it then one of the things that we discussed all 3 of us was goes previously is that why disturb you do it is because it can do it here and that's it

that's a very dangerous form almost the ok because you're not thinking about the consequences of it georgia are there are media reports that. through turkish channels that you have fighters from syria and libya and the in the caliber of that these are militants this one description or another they're being transported into this conflict into the box that is a very dangerous step here and considering what demon just said about the reaction to turkey we have the french president speaking very very clearly that this is a very dangerous development according to reports george yes the reports certainly credible and i don't know what extent they've been confirmed but they are widely. accessible reports and it's certainly consistent with everything else that no one has done i mean a great remember initially there there were these jihadi terrorists who were trying to. from libya to syria you need to talk them out of the overthrow of gaddafi it

and then recently france. you heard these from syria to libya so that we would be perfectly plausible. to one now be transferring jihadi fighters from syria as they are by do you know. it's a as you say why is there no one doing this yet because he can he figures that if he creates enough trouble than he is heavy defeats on the armenians then you know russia and the rest of the minutes group will have to accept realities on the ground. you know the armenians will have to give up some territory within hours or by johnson to the charity of my going to be reduced and then everyone will hail this is a great big tree yet another plant was foreign policy but also that we signalled a defeat for russian or a medical relief not to go there died

a year later when he began going on yeah he is you know i mean people have talked about here to all of this neo autumn is a 1000000 things like that i mean there's a literature on it and maybe it's just a pipe dream too but one thing is undeniable in all of this this is a major irritant for russia because russia grades with these going i mean even to the point with a kind of military hardware with planes for example both governments need permission from russia to actually use them in military at seeing here i mean this is a real annoyance for the kremlin here and maybe that's the whole point go ahead. oh well i would say that both sides of course powerful arguments you know they favor by john has some arguments too because well the latest you know let's be clear in the current look at about a bishop under international law is part of us are based on what people want and when the war ended up in 1904 as i say it was armenia speak turkey and more story there. refugees from the gordon car park where ethnic as they are by journalists

not only isn't i want to cover up our armenian control but also several jason. districts over over by jump rope are an armenian control so i think what we should all pray for is that bob who just wants to get back to these areas 1 which are not populated almost by anyone right now that would be i think the best outcome because it would be in the form of your security in return for 30 years in action but unfortunately there is a high risk it's not going to happen because both sides are raising the stakes you know the latest reports are that armenian missiles some armenian have targeted ganja which is the 2nd largest city in a stand by for that just kind of raises the stakes dramatically in this situation so both sides have arguments in their favor and the russian educate is very simple

just stop fighting trying to resolve with by peaceful means because if there are if you just of course a lot of them will go to russia. and and then the more i think regional 82 to this conflict because if we go back to history you know both sides will find dozens of arguments in their favor. but you aren't absolutely right that it's an irritant or a stray think it's not just an irritant it's a very bad situation of all of the international community and the west is also in a precarious situation here because initially in the late 8 years the russians liberals. and the west basically supported and armenian site but other by john joint who are you know this anti russian coalition of all soviet states. the west suddenly changed and there was more and more sympathy you

for as you are by joe so basically i think though that there is only upon solutions just to stop fighting and that the formula fed a truce in return for security because you know what strikes have destructor weapons and it's very interesting is that in the in the late eighty's and early ninety's. iran could have played a very important mediating role but that they were shut out by the west and again a regional player a very important and powerful one was shut out of the process that could've been a peace process internationalize instead of having someone like the one trying to flare up the conflict. will end on this point george i think we'll know it's all over when everyone is summoned to sochi. it could well be. but i think that at some point russia would have to intervene in a more decisive fashion and russia not want to be marginalized in this process so

if one is able to hail this as a great victory you know russia is the great power in the region russia mediated the the end of the previous conflicts it chemical war to weaken in effect that on that note there we're going to go to a short break and after a short break we'll continue our discussion of some real need state with our team. i don't know about that. because i want to make our way for you but i do know. the.

but there are also friends so that the works are still slow but the soul feel fulfilled to do something to see. which. they value about the doesn't matter there's a whole lot that's a little above was a boy with a love that you know we're going to. seem wrong when old rules just don't hold. any old belief yet to shape our disdain comes to educate and engage with equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground.

nuclear power become a battleground in the u.s. in vermont people love demanding the shutdown of a local plant from my yankee is right now my focus because it's a very dangerous oh no care power plant the owner is attempting to run the reactor beyond its operational limit this case just sort of puts a magnifying glass on where's the power in this country where's it going is it moving more towards corporate interests or is it more in the idea of a traditional participatory democracy as are powerline with the people this case demonstrates that struggle in very real ways our struggle on o.t. . by the pandemic no certainly no borders and is blind to nationalities.

has emerged riddled with the we don't have the facts in the world needs to be. judged as commentary crisis what is interesting to modern times we can do better we should. everyone is contributing way but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever the challenges created the response has been must so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are in it together. welcome back to cross up where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing some real news.

ok let's go to deal or let's switch gears a little bit here i came across an absolutely fascinating article in the american conservative by a writer helen andrews and her her article is a 2020 is tumbling towards $917.00 subtitle we think we're safe from revolution we're wrong it's already in the works what do you think about the comparison of what's happening in the us politically in this very formal she was year and reflection about what happened historically in 1970 and in the russian empire that would soon come to an end. well it's rare that you read sides being seen in the american media because it's and then for their american ultra liberal to compare more than the united states to the soviet union you know the the poor comparisons to will spot in years more but in fact for me you know due to my historical

knowledge of russia due to their summations that i made the american public right now the perilous up all of us you know all of that not just because they're striking you know i think that the reason for that paradox is that out there are we have basically to look at than it did in his most here which have a lot of things in common you know trumpet is on the able to do so and this stood to put it there in his mind you know the 3rd off the nazis and corman which is now basically rooted in do states you know instead of him and elected president this is their idea what would your ultra liberalism that is really in the united states and trumka not picked. why is it so he just traces it back to you know solve it by all should be examined and the marks as. well there are parallels but these are different and you're just paranoia in radio because you know the technology is seen

you find a certain group of individuals a social group declare them have been oppressed historically no you claim to have the right to represent these formally oppressed minority and to act on their behalf indicator brushing it right even though they're going to read between the lines there so the boss who makes them look black lives matter going to historical in the whole is absolute and it's not just had an answer of their due attention to this but also peter suffered nick in the tablet which is an american magazine on religious affairs here august 1st an age an article called. walk america is a russian novel published it in july and let me just quote that you know he talks about you have given your bizarre effect character or turn again of snow will return in the mid 19th century but not

a few bolshevik so to speak and nihilist you know this is when the war nile is became popular in russia and later on in the whole world so let me just called peter sullivan one wonders even buzz out of is there different from today's protest and state you populace the twinkie some thinks sowing discord in our news rooms the castle culture it's the liberal hawk the social part who police our social media feeds well this is exactly true because you know the problem with bolshevism is that it's less of an ideology it's less the communism it's. it's acknowledge of coming to power. yeah i just shot here you know you shut down all your points where everyone who disagrees an enemy you declare everyone who disagrees and reactionary and story just walked in the wall street journal for

example where you have that opinion beach fighting in the news room you know that being in beijing all today would be gross they're like the constitutional democrats who toppled the czar in february 1000 so when to create can you remember all russia and mean if you will and then you throw out the bolsheviks you know what was actually us there already sidelining all the american liberals in the ways in the same way bolshevik sidelined constitutional democrats in russia and you know the reason why this can happen on george the reason why this is going up because there's a crisis of legitimacy ok that's this that is the ultimate parallel it's the bolsheviks in 1917 or of france in 1789 i mean it's always about a lack of legitimacy and you have people within the power structures that are fueling on this illegitimacy ok they are actually destroying the system then sell it's a this is not a bottom up thing that's

a top down thing again jurors know this right so mentioned. again you have spotters and sons i would cite in other great russian novel which is perhaps even more apt which is does the us is the process because it was condense that the nihilist or you know some of them and some of them were extreme socialists were really are the product of the liberals of the earlier generation the liberals of the earlier generation that encourage this nihilism this destructiveness and they had lost the radical movement but what was really a stunning about that novel is the complete collapse of the order of the all of the just collapse like a house of cards and so does. as you wrote this almost 40 years before 917 and before that postal exactly what happened the entire russian governmental structure what it had been there for hundreds of years collapse like

a house of cards and that's really what's and that's what there was a kind of a rock from within and that's what you see in the united states because you see this wish trumps real problem is within the intelligence military security establishment they are openly defying the elected president they're openly speaking of him does it with disdain as if he had no legitimacy they they criticize he is his moves when he went to that church and affiliates where you had the military chiefs criticizing and trump really didn't have the strength you know have doesn't have the political strength to fire all these people and which and therefore sure you know this election turned out to be the chaos and that it looks like it's going to be then you know we should expect some sort of an insurrection within the government and trump made might be able to do very much about it you know they didn't you know the people in the political left in the united states are are are just. absurdly historical in their thinking they think it can't happen to us we can

control this we know how to manage it know that that they're missing history here they're good they're not they're not students of history once you start stuff like this it's almost impossible to control it and they end up being the victims of it eventually ok this is not this they're playing with fire here just because they hate the man in the oval office here the implications of which are are are enormous you can't control this kind of thing go ahead. you are absolutely right and the problem is that you know what you should be exposed to want and russia and them the you with bolshevism you know their foreign policy in the united states it's vice versa you know hope. that ultra liberals 1st used. in a speech and of political leaders outside the united states they used it in serbia they used it against ukraine they used it against russia and now they use and

engage their old president so that they can or would you of come into power over the new bolsheviks ultraliberal says hold them it's very simple the persona you fight evil you know they don't talk about historical process they don't talk about according to history just there is an evil man you know running this country and life will be beautiful you know ok they remove gadhafi and what do we have that we have a civil war it's a much more complicated society than just you know one evil man controlling everything and i agree completely with george you know in the process by just ask you please know that. i'm a negative character that evolutionary. he's father is an also a rebuttal you know and he's portrayed satirically in the beginning of the novel so basically he does that yes he predicted that the future bolsheviks will come from westernized liberals they will stem from them you know he also george you know if

you look what you know we all know the techniques that the bolsheviks used to come to power and they understood how collar work i give them not the rest of the ideology i know but they understood that but if you were if you're a student of history and you're a student of the bolsheviks it makes me think of steven cohen who just recently passed away he wrote the seminal book i think on the bolsheviks and that was one who caught it and what happened to him he was a victim of a huge purge committed in 1937 and the same kind of courage will come to these people ok because they let this this very toxic i call that ideological possession there possessed people this is this is beyond reason you know. it will come for them eventually history proves it over and over again go ahead george because we're rapidly yes i think that's exactly right and that's what happens when you start playing this very dangerous game people who should know

better. think that oh well you know this will get us the power once we are in power then we can just call this a cold war these mad dogs and we'll be nice and safe no it doesn't really work that way you know as the as the old bolsheviks found yeah i think got rid of all of the enemies the cool actually. are is bureaucracy it's either you know the entire sotiris establishment they would be safe no it came up to them and it was the old bolsheviks who were swept aside so yeah that's exactly what's what will happen here and what is it already this very very narrow goal of seizing power they you know they they seize power that is they believe that it is their legitimate their right or this power over throat and there will be there and it never works that way you know again the one of the interesting thing for me i

mean what we talk a lot about i mean hold your nose yes and you're the best you know it particularly in the in the west in general but particularly in the united states there's a huge economic turndown this is adding on to this because you have these elements that use this ideology for political reasons but the inadvertently or are slaney the economic and financial discontent of people so you're going to get this this mixture of this and this is going to be a very interesting a brew hear it because people are going to countries poorer i mean nobody wants to admit it in media your country is poor and now we're not like a lot like matter we have this intentional need the legitimizing. tradition law rule of law. and that's why i wanted to talk about this article last 15 seconds going to you yeah well i'm going to commute iconoclasm here you know we will be dismissed by liberal media for comparing this name to states now to russia

1070 in just one more for you guys to get angry just off me a wash you know all. the liberals the poor leadership historian and writer your old why bolsheviks was also important in wait for just the feel the war you know what o.b.l. am and others are doing and doing as they are creating the boy a destroyer legion thing. when there's a whole lot more to talk about on another episode of cross i want to make my guess it must go in but it doesn't want to make our viewers watching us here aren't you see you next time remember.

american citizen that he didn't want to. turn a tap on the other. guy and. i would vote for a republican i would vote for anyone who's not and has half a brain to defeat. the future. my 2nd wife. she can handle. she and i divorce because our troubles are what the president and i floated for her and she. we are the boss . important election. in our history. list of the months to go before the next presidential election how is the atmosphere in the us. what are the highest priority programs they vote should they do next. just some of the

questions we feel to be in there. as the u.s. economy was booming growing numbers of people were made homeless. you can work 40 hours 'd in a week and still not have enough to get housing everybody believes america still has the lead up to the reality of it we're not financially equality and the lack of affordable housing living minimum wage give many people no choice you know there's been a problem with the city you know those turn to make certain way oh miss. because the requires resources the most vulnerable are abandoned on the streets to become the invisible clerks.

in headlines this 5th october edging towards a right war the conflict between armenia and azerbaijan over the goal of enters its 2nd week our correspondent reports from the ground there. are scenes like this one common here i care about in fact this tiny village alone was battered by 6 massive . one of them this is all the devastation that it has left. clashes break out between demonstrators and police in tel aviv over the weekend dozens arrested for violating controversial new curbs on large demonstrations amid a spike in israel and talking to.