it's seemed wrong. to me you get to shape out just to become educated and engagement equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart. just to look for common ground. hello and welcome to cross talk or all things are considered on peter lavelle diplomacy and work and update on the cease fire negotiations in moscow on the issue

of the bottle caught up and is the war on cope and also a war on populism on the left and right. to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest george some yelling in budapest he's an author and a you tuber at the gaggle and here in moscow we have dmitri bobbitt she is a political analyst and an editor at interest me internet media project right gentlemen crossed out rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was appreciate it ok i was going to put it past that george we have a cease fire we heard that there are some violations but at this point as we're speaking right now it is still holding and i've been looking at a lot of the reporting this is only a tiny baby step i mean this issue is not going to be resolved that hasn't been resolved for 30 years and i'll be really honest with you i don't see a resolution coming into play what is most important and with these negotiations in

moscow with the leadership of armenia and azerbaijan is this at least the 1st step of stop the killing where do we stand george go ahead. i agree that that's a very important 1st step violations of cease fire in the media hours after. the announcement of a cease fire that's to be expected on this in any conflict the real question is whether the potus have an interest in to a single cease fire and i think that applies very much to the by john and to it's a chief sponsor turkey because for others by john a ceasefire and the status quo ante isn't really in its interests. turkey has made clear that it will not accept anything short of a complete armenian withdrawal from the areas that it's been occupying since 94 so i did just think that this the ceasefire may not last i mean there's just simply

. there's this there's too many vested interests against it and therefore. this this conflict is likely to escalate you know the name is there in the risk of losing base in azerbaijan because this offensive against the crowd of about a buck and then gone anywhere i mean if you will of villages many gave you know just been lost in their lore largely been abandoned for 30 years so i mean who's who where is the risk greatest right now i would think it would be in. well you are right because basically i think when. i survived decided to respond really violently to what was a rather usual you know small possible bombardment from the armenian side so when i was there but underside of glasgow i think mr reddy hoped that in a few days at warst in

a few weeks armenians would just seed 2 or 3 districts out of 7. that are part of the so-called new car about security as all these are areas not populated by armenians not populated by said by generous this is basically a wasteland which is used as a buffer zone between the 2 sites so i think i do you hope in a few days maybe in a few weeks at least part of the ground will be gained that would be there to it but now we see that the whole situation is getting more certain more sense armenians are responding by hitting a city is deep inside as they are by john so i think no if you. can't get a little ground ok that will be trumpeted as a victory in baku but certainly it would not justify the costs the costs were

enormous you know george i was looking at some of the communication coming out of the foreign ministry in the kremlin this is bare and it was very obvious that it was a very obvious omission and it was i think it is a snub there was no mention the be serious brain that president they're going to be part of this we go shooting process and the reason why it's a glaring omission because the the turkish foreign ministry pointed out the omission in the white angry about. yes there's no question turkey is making. trouble and turkey has no interest in ceasing to make trouble. it wants to make trouble for russia because both mean and azerbaijan are good terms with russia . of a save the military arrangement with amin is more expensive with azerbaijan nonetheless america russia has good relations with both any conflict between on the ng and as

a by the un is a headache for russia and i think this is really the danger of far as russia is comes on that along with belarus with ukraine with georgia there are power was that have a vested interest in causing headaches for russia because this is russia's sphere of influence and if there's a conflict and russia is unable to resolve this conflict then it's a serious problem for them and i think that for the russians is that they really want to settle this soon as possible i'm not a socialist is that's really on the cards you know and human kind of speculating here right now to back that. everyone wasn't involved visually involved in all of this is this it seems to me that how they're based on is kind of showing its hand right now because. it's been a number of years since we've seen a major escalation here the other by john sides. vance that is weaponry in

its military and my sense is the basis of this would be a grow up and die and then get a decisive victory that could change the balance of forces that has not come into play and observation can look to moscow to who is another part of the buyer as it were ok and i think that's a possibility here since everyone was obviously very publicly excluded when you think. well i think what gods are saying you can read it in just above all western news purpose right now i mean the most conspicuous was the article in the new york times here which is become and a really bad propaganda rag right now so there's article in the new york times was headlined if you're basically surround sounded by instability pugin along the sort of instability is now surrounded by the article by un parkway an office and the author writes that a concurrent crisis in belarus central asia and the caucasus region have blindsided

the kremlin leaving did believe in it scrambling to shore up russian interests well i'm trying to get back to the nonsense but give your opinion here go around it's nonsense because never in the last 30 years give barcoo her appeal to moscow for help and if you look at the statement from the president that he of which game i think yesterday or 2 days ago it was so was it you have towards russia i barely could recognize him he said that russia has our complete trust you know he sent his foreign minister to moscow they're going to be the white knight my interpretation of this is that the regime is not really. into everyone's game absolutely the opposite i think a lot more calmly really really expensive big words now they. are going to get out

and now it's been months not. actually and not only in this era by john i mean the corpulent of the west is just saw so blue and by their ideology they always suspect the kremlin of head in the wast of intentions the most you could call intentions and what was going on ok there was this there was this turmoil in belarus never in the. last 30 years did belarus look up to russia so much as it does now you know central question who came to power it was pretty independent and now he's begun russia to help in kyrgyzstan well i mean it's a real disaster one of the reasons was the coffee because 46 percent of our kinda stuff economy is service industry so could it just feel that there was this basically a rebellion in bishkek and now both sides in the can stay in the situation of complete honesty i'll get up to more school being one of us i know many members of

the group of us community in america and i've been told this is just my own personal experience that many of them tell me that many people in a great extent actually might return to the russian better aeration this so. it is true but it is true also of arc many of the countries of the middle of it union so 1st public opinion is important and in all of these 3 crisis belarus carra bar kyrgyzstan the people actually do not blame russia or more of the people the view russia as a stabilizing force 100000 of them were going must go down but actually exactly not only not only curate yes but you don't notice them because they're the same as us but there are millions of the russians working in russia and there are many there are millions of other various and armenians working on doing business in russia so basically the public opinion has been ours and it is always right now but it didn't

matter so much because the leads basically decided during the last at least 20 years now the elites and kyrgyzstan who can have 2 more school needs in armenia and azerbaijan open up the law school local passion and language has changed just until recently he was a western man you know he praised. modern albright which was your view. on slide you know let me let me go to george area i mean jim and i had lunch yesterday and we were talking about it for our meeting and he is a to be or not to be issue and i think to be the current president he can talk all he wants about best and it's been a wrench has been done but when it comes to an accidental greg there is one place they look to and that way over a century they look ahead yes exactly because all that you'll get from the west is of course encouragement egging you on into a conflict with the sort of less you and him fight but ultimately the united states

is not going to go to war and you'll be high german is not going to go to war and you'll have so you're actually leading your country to disaster and just going back to this point that the mullahs make in that article in the new york times which sneered about these leaders who sent their birthday greetings to telephones president putin for his birthday greetings well the fact that so many of the leaders of the former soviet republics were the ones who had actually telephoned him to wish him the west for his birthday that indicates something it means russia has good relations with almost all of the former republics of the u.s.s.r. and that's that's quite an achievement and goes against the grain of the western media that everybody hates russia and that these countries are rightful color revolutions no they actually have good relations with russia. you know we could make the case that ukraine after everything since 2040 who which country is

ukraine's most important trading partner russia be able to this day not be you know k. so the e.u. they export their ideology and passions but not much more demon last 20 seconds before we go to the break well not only is your playing ground is russia still the biggest trading partner of ukraine but also ukraine was not the poorest. europe when we speak of course most of all now needs the poor to be close. to the u.s. . or it may be because of bad that's exactly right when you go to a break here now let's get your discussion on some real news day with our. elderly forward to talking to. that technology should work for people.

must obey the orders given by human beings except when such orders to conflict with the 1st law show your identification should be very careful about artificial intelligence and the point is to create trust. with artificial intelligence where something. must protect its own existence is. a dark industry comes to life in los angeles every night. dozens of women sells their bodies on the streets many of them under-age. los angeles police reveal a taste of their daily challenge if you're going to exploit for a child here in los angeles there we're going to. see officers going undercover as

6 workers and customers to fight the 6 trades. welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered i'm peter bell to remind you we're discussing some real news. well let's go back to george in budapest you know i've had many many conversations over the last few months here and you. started formulating an idea that i think really needs exploration and i think will only touch on it in this part of the across here but you said to me not too long ago that the war on coal bit which i can live with that i think there's a war on everything now and it kind of dilutes the meaning of it but ok the war on tobin but it's also it's also a war on civil liberties it's

a war on populism on the left and the right and i've done a number of programs on cross-talk talking about what is this new normal is the new normal an attack of progressive islam left and right george yes i think so. that the 2016 is kind of he is 0 for the global elite we had the bricks that referendum which against all expectations went against the e.u. and then of course we had don't trump election victory which again went against all predictions this game is such a shock to the global elite who felt that they could control the western publics with these they could have elections they could win every election if those an election went against some they could just have the end run exactly a referendum will have a rerun this was a total shock. at 1st they tried to make some kind of a spin

a conspiracy story that oh it was russia and everything that sails up this is the no evidence for that so they went cove it came along they seized on this and imposed restrictions that had never in the process been imposed when you know there's been viral pandemics i mean there's nothing new about pandemics i mean there's all this humanities there's been bad cases of the flu not even without even talk about the 1984. and so i mean it was the agent flew in the 1960 s. the hong kong flu before that there's nothing new about it what is new was the extraordinary restriction i mean shutting down the economy closing down businesses mandating people wear mosques and treat one another as if they're disease carrying out and you have to then wonder whether is this really part of an on float by government on the public's so that they become frightened of one another and cede all powers all decision making to elites yes yes you know better than we do you are

the scientists you are the people with knowledge and brainpower least that's what we must do you know deal with the interesting thing is and when you look at these and some of these restrictions and somebody sent me on facebook yesterday. social distancing martial law of that so are orwellian i mean people are making sure you don't get close to other people here people have no wait and see i guess what i find really remarkable if you look at the case of orthodox jews in new york i mean they are rebelling against that the state authorities city and state authorities because they're not being allowed to practice their base which is one of the most important tenets of being an american having citizenship in america and the founders took religion very carefully meaning they would be no hindrance over religious observance here but you know there's you know there's temperance about going to school there's an immigrant's. obviously going to work here but if you

want to protest a certain kind of protest one that is ideologically in favor that's ok the hub spot prosy and that is just on believable but it's traditional institutions that are being crushed by this and i would say crushing any kind of dissent might in year go ahead well you know just a very important fact about the score he just. this is the suspicion against religious organizations and it's not only inside the united states it's global you know the french newspapers blamed the orthodox on the asterisk in kiev which remains loyal to the joint orthodox church of russia and ukraine that they blame them for the spread of course we didn't hear. the same story about of the jews that you just told us well why is it happening because the more than west an ideology is a religion in itself

a very destructive one but it has its scenes the so-called dissidents the so-called enjoy those you know missionaries which are untouchable and which you can send russia you can send them to kyrgyzstan anywhere right. but the problem with this new religion 1st industriousness itself and a separate region and 2nd and 2 lines of society in standoff bringing people together as traditional religions do this want to my society you know those are told not to listen to their mothers and fathers and not to marry you know remain independent 6 or 8 families are not encouraged to be creative these so-called independence is everywhere so this new religion kind of seized on core heat as a very important and a very comfortable means to promote more into my speech i mean just

recently how many people were against most i'm swearing traditional whales in public what was a huge problem especially in france and this was about 0.000 percent of the population who wore these traditional veils know their require turn over 100 percent of the population to hide their faces and suddenly it's not a problem for the police it's not a problem for a new one right so. people are voting today not against. just because basically people are not given anything science made equal he is indeed a very dangerous g.'s there is a lot of evidence about that people who didn't engage the level who are checked you know how come people are allowed to ride on on subway trains and then feel the cramps but they're not allowed to have a need to which is not online you know or my meetings are more formal you know this table who i go git likes online meetings because they're all record everything

you say that may be used against you so it's also a limitation of freedom. george it's a you know every every major religion has scripture written that the scripture of this new religion the demon just described is called the new normal which normal is what we tell you is normal i mean you know orthodox jews can congregate alcoholics anonymous can and they congregate and that is a very in. that's a health risk to people who want to do this don't recognise they have been health issue and they need to be able to commune with other people they're isolated right now that's when you're isolated and you have that kind of problem we don't know what happens here when it's black white matter it's a different age so it's it's the powers that be decide what the new normal is because like you said break that interim you can't trust the people they're the last people you can trust go ahead. that's exactly right and let's you know just remind us of how the all for it is respond that in 2011 to

the the. the protest against the bailout of the wall street you know who you know we are the 99 percent no tolerance levels 0 tolerance for that compare that with how sympathetic the authorities are to these black lives massive protests oh yeah you know when cammalleri says yes these protests are going to go on and they should go on and i'm going to be with them. always so it's very interesting you know why is it that all forest is sanction one protests but you know use all the police powers against another protest well obviously the one that is frightening. the status quo one that is and it's clear that black lies matter and this is the sort of a nonsense about the semi graces and no one knows what he means they pose no threat that's why goldman sachs going to fall to write checks you know 5xw1cw whatever you want is a check or a jest these of us can support them no problem at all so what you're really saying

is how far is this have seized on cobe it to crack down on those. congregations that they don't like a demon right to point it out religion that's out however of black guys now you know you can't get enough of that and i think that's really what you know this new to normal will be one which will courage is going to be absolutely terminating what you can do and what you're going to cause this goes into the because of weather another time about the internet censorship which is also by the of the kobus censorship you can post anything that might be misleading information a little bit that's of course a preliminary to suckle of information. just to clear but it has twitter or facebook even let me ask you this twitter facebook got a nobel peace prize for chemistry or physics or mathematics i mean you know hard stuff ok you know who's who's to say facebook and twitter know the truth but they

claim and you know what they'll inboard there and. that's part of the new normal demon. gone mention playing a rightly that there are some protests which have poder aided by the sound which our city condemned using the scoring threat as the back up you know it's very easy to pick. which ones will be condemn the ones that do not correspond to the norms and the beliefs of this new religion and call it liberalism nice progress will be condemned why idea will vest condemned in france because the european union the supposed to mean the k.p. paradise you know the european union is the place where this religion is almost official you know why are where quite as mad to support them because they're against drum and trump was elected in 2016 against the wishes of this new

religion each candidate was he or he claimed he was supposed to be the punching bag for that woman boxer and then suddenly of the punching bag defeated the boxer it was a separate church so in the same way you know you're in this parallel with religion this religion has its dentals the day or so are the leaders of the countries that have not submitted to this new religion these devils leaders i demonized and we remember how it was done with qaddafi how it was done where the new water is now they do the same with a cutting skin point and with organ in hungary air great recently just recently they started doing a problem because this religion is universal it's not about the united states dominate in other countries it's about this religion dominating everyone else so let me let me get this straight george so you can get an abortion ok. you can go to

a liquor store but you can't create a gun ok and you can go to an a.a. meeting ok i guess this is some quorum of utopia preserve but for us not to and people watching as this is the dystopian it's dystopian and it is very ideologically driven and it doesn't open itself to interrogation 10 seconds yes or no is that exactly right the park receive. it is so blatant that now you had the u.s. courts for the 1st time stepping in that was the federal. court in pennsylvania that cracked down on the. government restrictions and now you had the other day at the d.c. quarter also breaking down that just simply not so well on the job in iraq right out of time and they're going to try to go to the courts doing ok i want to thank my guests would have as yet and hear him us what i would think our viewers are watching us here are to see you next time remember.

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this hour's headlines stories the capital of nagorno-karabakh enjoy the relative comfort. but other parts of the disputed region are hit by shelling our correspondent reports from the times of heard from. hillary shelling from the city right now this is the least safest place of all of the region azerbaijan ses 9 people are being killed and dozens more injured after one of its. immediate conflict zone came under attack armenia also claims its territories have been targeted also coming up on the program. i'm going to get to the 2nd day of what could be used a way to drive in the world.