such pieces and other descriptions. all big brother today thanks for staying with don't forget there are plenty more news stories available on our website at. americans love. this was a fundamental part of how our political leadership and our country at large understood the bargain you get a hope and then you know rebel right that's the things you don't revolt if you have a stake in the system. and be really interesting to dial it back and think about the longer deeper history housings man in the united states not just that question of the american dream but the bigger question of who the dream is for.

a welcome to. me so. when disaster strikes strong leadership is needed to rebalance disorientation and regain control who are our leaders and how do they become that last one of the world's most prolific thinkers on the psychology of leadership man fred katz to. manfredi gets to free is a professor of leadership development organizational changes said in seattle business school it's really great to have you with us wow what amazing times to talk about later shoes but i'm going to start actually from

a little behind so we like to think of idea leaders as being modest little selfless accommodating emotionally intelligent compassionate instead. you know so in reality though it's just about anyone about their boss from hell and the story goes that you will hear plenty about self centeredness that they're rough they're insensitive as leaders. is it realistic to think that this gap between the ideal and the real realistic can be actually bridged i hope. they do what they do. you know we all need to be of narcissist. unfortunately too many leaders really are from the bomb and that's sort of. it's it's very tall and the nice terms use about humility a sense of humanity and to say older sayings no longer they've been down by the

wayside or that's so there is in that respect actually it's very interesting times closer to home than me because it focuses in a way it's the largest social experiment ever done. no good now that number so now is you condition one is that people become more reflective and say what kind of role do we need i mean at the moment. you know i look at the world and i didn't wonder many years ago before you were born and i have at this about science which talked about how can a person in the earth's so now people are more concerned of course about global warming and things like that there was also a movie that was in the sixty's it's also of course in the times of cold war it was . dr strangelove you probably never sort it's an i want to move about in danger of nuclear all across so it's still there actually every single bar countries like pakistan and north korea you don't get the warm feeling was having their finger on

the nuclear button then of course you have the terrorism because all over the place it is still there and they you have faults you know also in the case i know atsic right well because it's been so many times there is incoming inequalities i mean you look at america it's enormous fortune you're right in the it's much less and of course countries like poland and sweden it's much more equal but when you have large income inequalities it's an invitation for social disaster. and they have to pull them in and the way different countries have their arteries upon them in bad examples of course being countries like america. also a country like india. terrible day of beauty music which now that mr laden is supposed to be people who don't from a mosque or a man group a group is totally ridiculous and you know it's it's really

a perfect storm. and well of course what you need our leaders social issue you mentioned. you know who i have compassion and have some empathy instead of you have you has been. so people who are big leaders who cater to our wish to believe. your story realistic but let's be a little more precise because what i would like to talk to you during this interview about leadership and different kinds of walks of lives but now we've touched upon the world leaders right the cult political leaders and you're saying this is the perfect storm and this perfect storm actually brings to the surface all the downfalls of the systems of the people who are actually having their countries masks are off i mean never has there been a time where everything has been so clear when they say the king is in a cave this is the time about the saying so. it seems like looking over.

the world landscape of political leadership landscape there can you use a program. better that's my next question that's my next question but if we talk about the kings that are naked right. and that has become obvious during the pandemic it has a lot of people thinking that maybe they have the political elite that is heading the world great now lives in the old paradigm that doesn't correspond to the new problems that the world is facing and i'm not really only talking about the condemning the pandemic will go away in a year and a half hopefully. right there will be a look see and i mean every 100 years there is a condemning but i'm talking about the problems that it has brought to surface and the inability of the current political elite to deal with these new problems that just don't correspond that old political paradigm what kind of leaders do we need

right now considering that we know more precisely what are the problems the world is facing now. well you know certain things are not new and i think one of the the infineon there. the problem we always have is the greek factor nor the element of greed has been there so are the ages in that still there. and that's i think fairly not so silent motivator the people behave the way they do i mean it's really take the united states as an example even in there if you know if you live in the richest communities or the most bursted they have the best education because it was the education is a way of looking so division believed to obama's miracles they still milked a vote for tom many of them who took trump because of. his f. and taste and then friend then surely because the phrase shorts short way. of

looking i've been fair it's a said to your there is no short term. surge in the entertainment country which is divided and people live in a safe communities guarded by whatever powers protect the. goons who protect them which is a terrible ray of living has exert. the great effect it has always been there and it is unfortunately has been has come very much to the fore come back to your question and you're the only depressing yourself and what you need is people who are curtain agents and are going to face reality as all the problems by the way that we live now in an age of the social media has me more effect and you know and the us is no stranger to that by the way in the this tunisian effect or it's and what about the world has become mosty in that and it's quite unfortunate that you start to get. a lot of people that i have spoken to said you know when things like

condemn ix happen right where when there's so much uncertainty and no one has the answers he can be the most experienced leader and you can be very smart. and you can be married talented but ls you have emotional intelligence and that accomplices a lot of other traits within itself for instance empathy and out of today there's no way you can lead a nation out of crisis like program like would you agree with us would you agree that something like emotional intelligence is a must have for a good leader during the times of crisis like this person you have to know what are your strengths and weaknesses you can do it all leadership is really a team sport and fortunate tom to give that example because i like the example and so i'm also now my psychoanalyst amount of the life of 2 heads are mentioned professor and psychoanalyst he is the example of a school to mimic the narcissist in a malignant narcissist is basically i've written quite a bit about him actually because i thought so you know i can believe it that big

a sicko machine really is as so he basically has made it seems is he is so insecure or that it's all about him it will never be about it's always about him something about him and the 2nd seeing his face indicative so anybody who's not raise him is against him or do anything to crush the prince yes to with it is of course going to be interesting because of this election because he can't lose his mind so he has to find all different ways to find excuses not to so that's it but coming back to executives you know the 1st thing i tried to do in my going back to your question about emotional intelligence is the question of no dice. and to understand their strengths and weaknesses so many executives don't know him self they don't know right to do more to do the sentencing is that very often and rossi is a very good example actually given the power of this. riches kind of remarkable if you think of our community and seems like that's in the past but there's an enormous amount of our being used to authority so or this great tendency for

another greek word going to a breeze people become too full of themselves and nobody can push them back because . case of course also on talk. so death and and that is also the road to self-destruction so it's always my surprise that now people many people have a tendency to self-destruct in leadership position unless you have a tree in the corporate culture where people have a healthy disrespect for their bulls but it's not so easy and particularly the r.c. i've done quite some work there is organizations and organ but our this and the 2nd sing would always surprises me or the source of that many executives don't get the best of their people it's really again they have no and then there's who is emotion tell it is and what i found very noticeable after the 1st week in my program it was 4 weeks over a year and the 1st thing you don't know that people never had a serious conversation is that they have never listened to them so that's what they do is start to have some conversation is that the other thing has to do is as i

said the other ship is a team sport and since you can do everything you should focus on the since you're good at it and you should find people who can compensate through since you're not good at it and so i was they give me a somewhat neurotic to make something out of the short time and just be in my work at n.c.r. i've been trying to buy them yet indeed coach so are 2 really and it's always surprises me when you look at exec a leadership in organizations that people spend millions bence of millions of dollars or whatever yours whatever on ivy systems things like that but they are able to aligned. and that cost more money because you get terrified better than me is all this going and seems people are multi-line matter of that take a sharp break right now when we're back we'll continue talking to a man fred katz the framers unless a political thinkers on the psychology of leadership talking about what kind of leaders as the world needs today stay with us. or.

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the confirmation process. is in full swing.

legally. this is. simply says the supreme court has been politicized. maybe the record impact there is a real incident. and we're back with matt fred katz to freer and prolific thinker on a psychology of leadership correct me if i'm wrong but what i see the real life is that the vast majority of leaders whether it's c.e.o.'s of corporations whether it's hads of states whether it's you know just had a little small companies doesn't matter they have the traits. that good guys don't have you know because good guys always finish last i mean we talk about

trumping. narcissism but a lot of people who actually get to power are of power hungry are narcissistic are pushy they do lakes sort of go over other people's heads to get where they want and that's why their leaders and other good guys with compassion and emotional intelligence always stay behind i want peace in the article about we should have leaders for life and then you know bitch once and for a cynical article because leaders for white house are not it doesn't make make for stability of the country and that's and also in the tredegar organization so. in the short term those people might come up but i think one should do everything to have some checks and balances to prevent those people to come to the fore destination for example i have developed many kinds of c 60 christian mirrors that you basically tease out the narcissist i mean the doctor lawyer the commercial narcissus is part of the deal better rate what is the question of accessible rates

you need to be narcissistic was a need for self as the excess that people can push back they can tell a person you for shit. you know stopping this doesn't go anywhere but i think when you have too much obedience to authority people are in luck to you and many of the leaders who talk about me from the echo chamber i mean they know what they think they want the right want are the interest of other people think that's i think important to me you learn you don't live in boston you suffer the same saying so this day in age you can have some to class or take adventurous you can also say maybe we should have somewhat of a different view of a you have to be somewhat result of hope and that's partially it was of the younger generation i mean i i i'm not going to are in sync about global warming i'm too old to really come here not too old and i don't feel at all but i mean i'm not i don't know going to necessarily affect be affected so much by that but it's think about my children and grandchildren they are and so you can see that you know that the

younger generation may be the company isn't it and is actually the invention of the jungle generation because the younger generation was so affected my age and more of them because it's affected but he had maybe that's what it is to find and get all those people out of the way who have certain racial looking at sayings but let's say you leave a couple of thank your is a girl and you tater i don't know it's a prince of orange and he has led the revolt yet now. what do you have to change one of the essential leadership qualities you will try to grow in him. now i guess one thing we talk about certain qualities one has to have certain amount of self-confidence i had one executive who was who runs a large media company who told me thank you thank you for being in the seminar because i had the courage but she doesn't have before it was a very good person to make some tough decisions non-singing i'm not going to fight anybody that was actually it's a tough decision course record it's much easier to in bring in panic to fight i

said i'm he said i'm not going to fight anybody and i'm going to really hope the hospitals also where have i i have i take a salary cut there's the whole top executives at that state are so courage to have courage to do certain seeing and to stand up and say this is about it and you know it everybody who's crazy also feel awful but you can this is such ngs of courage muscle to say this this cannot stand now so you have self-confidence i mean when you look at the wrong person is basically a child who are so insecure or needs all the time to be enforcement so to be to be more aware what you can do and can do coming back to strength and weaknesses it also going back to your comment about the care that you have a sense of compassion now you have to do it it was in moderation because if you had to do and bess if you don't bet anymore everything is you can that he or she can understand everything but that might be paralyzed what about cold blooded ness is

something a good leader should also balancing himself. now that has to do with the balance of compassion. your menu i mean i'll go away what i mean because when you see big leaders they need to take big decisions and even though it's for the good of the people in the long run it doesn't necessarily come across that way to the people right then and there and people sometimes have to suffer for big reforms for a certain period of time 5 years 10 years that's a big chunk of time for one person's life so these people are faced with assad to be compassionate no go with the reforms and you know let the people be happy now or be cold blooded go on with the reform whether it's a big c.e.o. of a company or president of a country but in the longer on even though people are unhappy now with the reforms it will be better off for the country or for the company i see it not as. a blogger this is he this cribbing created sometimes you know you have to make difficult

decision because they the right decision as far as you can see in that cities and supposedly are elected but when you're elect people who just cater to division to believe like you see in brazil missing mean there is this kind of discount of person or i mean coming back to america they don't have the competence to make those decisions if they really realized. they would say they are not stupid people don't realize that they would surround himself with people who would advise a look at a populist like come back to america is a tribute example of what we're creating he was nectar and he also knew then he was out of his debts so he made you know he had pretty decent advice that's not the case when you look at the present situation america so bloodedness is the business and billeted i seem to take some distance and be able to explain what you're saying just in the better investment nation and there was

a man called out in our who was the german. you're there in german consular he said a thick skin is a gift of growth unfortunately as only that at times you have need to have a 6 again because you can never please everybody if you want to please everybody you so i scream that's my advice is there like a natural the wide and people between leaders and followers and some people are destined to lead and others follow or anyone really can grow a leader in himself if he wants to that's a very interesting question and it's not easy to answer because some people feel much better i mean in case of crisis we have a tendency to go back to what's called the dependency assumption be looking for someone who can lead us you know this as paul is already from brotherly ticks times you know we talk about our it from lucian bute for somebody. that's in general to and this is we also have this fight flight was the same time and some people

depending on their background to mean i mean i have to say qur'an was you look at some developmental you know at the well actually for you to use to. talk about mine the gold in the sea if you as a man this and many of the if if if you had been the favorite ocean mother you can't lose that's what he said so you are you get a lot of self you have this freedom with for concrete can do anything and actually consider similar you look at margaret thatcher at the kind of show she was interestingly your hate her autobiography there is no mother there. there's only a father which was interest then because in the in this male chauvinists it will be lived in her father wanted a son so does the book it was bought as a tomboy so you have different but of course the best scenario i sink is that it's not just honey i'm home you know the chance of men coming home what you have to honey is coming home so you have role models in the family and those make it different if you have a fairy competition woman if you have a competent mother it's really sets and sets of the role model in philly depends

how what kind of relationship develops in the family it's a little bit like also. you know they're coming back to security dino to the parable of the hatch wrong no that's all schopenhauer imagine your head short is caught in the with and you want to get warmer so some of the head shorts and you try to get closer but as a hedge or how close can you get before used bad things happen to you is distinct so you have different kinds of heads will have to find proper distance so according to you come back to child development darcy started usually one is secure attachment that you feel comfortable with a certain distance some people don't want to get close they're always avoidant because everything ends badly and they have to people are very needy so coming back to your question if people are fed is. probably the better from a verse you're anxious intention they don't look for someone it's also interesting

to me because this head to a pair of metaphor sets the stage of. ships and the relationships you have in organizations so i knew it so if you are for example very avoidant and your partner is faint needy is bad news you know you've done parties on and off the only other one was a disgusting i. come of coming back to where you asked me about leadership certainly given your particular the attention to be a few have fairly early in life which has to do is what kind of care you have some people will be much better for various other people who are more secure in their skin build many much better than the others do you think. they demands of what a good leader or traits of a good leader should be change according to the times will even or a good leader is a good leader anywhere any time now that i mean of course the difference things we have now believe in information society or you need such different skills but i

mean i wrote not skills traits now i mean coming back to the press as a christian it should be honest before. i was and some journalist before he said you know leadership skills of work something great genghis khan and. shaka zulu. and you know some face simile you need know now to f.l. this a flippant remark to a journalist so and yet i wrote a book on aleck some of the day i wrote a book of shockers it is the leader of southern f. southern africa and his comment the problem is that because of there's not much hate in the botching disgruntlement and it in society but i think many of the qualities are still the same which has to do no really look at. all exxon the great in our news of symbolism in this particular way of operating was vacant and also the way before the bethel you know you would be informed by the way which

is to pretty sure to lead off the talks because you can be killed and you will see shortly it was no stranger to many rooms also before the bethel talking to people singling people out and seeing who act that the people felt special to death i mean they're really usually create a community of people and still the case like you have any the fish the famous bottle ashen coeur there's the famous speech there and he and he sings are all this media people so if you don't feel committed they will fight till the end they will do anything if there is someone that you think is a great model of a great leader that corresponds today's reality in today's times who would it be can you name a president or a c.e.o. of a company that you think fits perfectly the times and challenges of today i felt that mrs america has done a pretty good job. i think she has done a very good job is not an easy country to manage and she has she made some mistakes

. underestimate for example the influx of immigrants and the impact it helped. me. if you have a woman a storm really i think when you look at some of the women i mean. there are so we should get some discount in a few countries men i am i am i am more and more a lot more so on that optimistic note that era of the women leaders that is actually coming. i would like to thank you man fred it's been really a treat talking to you and i hope we get to do this again and maybe i can actually connect with you when i'm in paris and we can talk more about this because. this is a really interesting topic that has come more than ever in focus right now so thanks a lot for your tips and for your thoughts and insights. thank you for having me

thank you. dog industry comes to life in los angeles every night. dozens of women sells the bodies on the streets many of them under-age. los angeles police reveal a taste of their daily challenge if you're going to exploit for a trial here in los angeles they were going to come out you see officers going undercover as 6 workers and customers to fight 6 trades. join me every 1st week on the all excitement and i'll be speaking to us of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then.

curfews and new restrictions are imposed across europe spirals with infection rates topping those seen in the spring. with a 2020 u.s. presidential vote just weeks away republicans crying foul or alleging election into fields twitter and facebook. on democrat hopeful joe biden. by. they take the negative posts down almost before they even go up there trying to protect him trying to protect by this is election interfering.