hello and welcome to cross town where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle the media environment is bleak if you disagree with the official narrative you're called a conspiracy theorist never mind many official narratives actually are conspiracy theories and is big tech at war with populists. to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest george samueli in budapest he's an author and a you tuber at the gaggle and in moscow we're joined by dmitri bobbitt she is a political analyst and editor at interest me internet media project our gentlemen crossed out rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate all they want to be me here in moscow as i said in my introduction if you disagree with the official narrative somehow you're

a conspiracy theorist but over the last few years and particularly i have in mind russia gate ukraine gate even go further with saddam and weapons of mass destruction being the there's plenty of official conspiracy theories that have been thoroughly debunked but a many of the conspiracy theories that i consider conspiracy theories in the official discourse are there's no even attempt to acknowledge that they can be debunked. oh well you are absolutely right 2 because look just started from. facebook. even to you to be shut down hundreds of thousands on a cost of people connected to what these companies declared to be conspiracy theories organizations you know i won't name them not to you and to them but.

everyone knows these names you know the mainstream media reports about them every day and if you look at the theories for which these groups were paralyzed are biased basically every one of them has some. kind of shared though in reality i like ok it's a conspiracy theory that the western rule or world is ruled by paedophiles who are iranian you know child safety child sex trade yes that's a conspiracy theory but geoffrey epstein exist that and he is circle exist and is the circle included people from there for what we can call high society so why can't people just you know make their own conclusions and go further that's absolute in nature oh. and the problem with the conspiracy conspiracy theorists spread by the mainstream media is that they're not based in reality at

all they're based on ideology for example. you know saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction he was a maniac who wanted to destroy the world that was a huge conspiracy theory but no one shoves down new york times twitter accounts no one says you i to us how many times did new york times report that saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction and so for hours and sometimes tens of thousands of women they got those say it's not a conspiracy theory and mr trump is a liar you should be labeled and then you advance would continue business as usual right i don't need to find peace and they compute surprises and they got promotions and they and they were just kicked up the ladder 1st reading their poll narratives here you know this is the image george i mean. in this is all the media's fault i mean that lets us look at cove it i mean you can look at it one. hour one hour of

primetime and go to every single major cable station and they have their with their panel of medical experts but they all say different things ok i mean what are people supposed to believe and because they can't believe the official narratives they're going to try to make conclusions themselves that's only natural and let the over the last couple of days the way social media platforms of behave no wonder people start thinking unthinkable and sometimes unreasonable things because they feel they're being lied to go ahead. that's absolutely right because there is the there is 2 basic purpose which is use the media your opponents as they is of conspiracy theory and say say oh these people put forward ridiculous conspiracy theories that joe biden was involved with rolling ukraine the influence peddling and trying to get applause. because what the project it's on

there isn't there. when you say that barack obama was spying on the trunk campaign that's the thing there is the theory but the one that i. on hussein had weapons of mass destruction and even more seriously that he was involved in the 911 terrorist attack that apparently is not a conspiracy there this is the claim that martin may have. fixed the 2016 election for 'd donald trump which the media have been claiming i think i do it to this day that's not a conspiracy theory. the claim that a hunter biden lab or the e-mails that have just recently emerged. a product of a russian this information that's not a conspiracy if so so that where you are you are allowed to put forward your conspiracy theories was me airing your opponent as being

a conspiracy theory. if you look at the new york times how many times use the word conspiracy theory all day every day innumerable stories used to it is there is it there about whom about the people that make a politically donald trump is a puppet or a conspiracy but no no we've been your tribe not to where we say that but i'm a potent controls every single thing in the well that's not a conspiracy very good you know demon you can compare this is come controversy surrounding joe biden's son hunter and then we can compare it to to rush again so rush again is based on anonymous sources exclusively with them and sources and. a flimsy and even fabricated dossier ok that were paid for for and they all had that and the dossier had a political aim ok to discredit and that's called opposite position research and happens all the time. but opposition research that isn't usually used to impeach

someone ok but in the case of the the main the bike family i mean there are calendars there are people in admitted that they met my. he transfers and you know i mean there's a lot of you know me you know those bones the dark about what russian gate was all up in the clouds built you know i counsel floating in miraculously in the clouds here but you know one conspiracy theory and the other one is debunked but i mean you know and then where the journalist in the whole of the not i mean it was a pretty ugly car so in the quads that's quite a spade a spade i think people should be named and shamed in this case i mean christopher a steals dorsey a clean that russian 1 prostitutes or any of them sounds on drums had when he was in moscow and that was completely below him and there was nothing behind it. but you know these dossier is still mentioned and the mainstream media not only in the

united states by you know. media outlets like dish spiegel magazine in it in germany all i know more and in france they continue saying that russians stole their american election by placing ads on facebook for them out of $100000.00 or less you know so these are just absolutely incredible lies i mean allies had said simply don't match but as i told you you know the so-called popular conspiracy theorists you know there are many conspiracy theories about coronavirus well because the theme who looks absurd specious that's why you have these yes nice sometimes about corona mafia or corona craziness corona grease in nature all that people create such theories that conspiracy theories of the mainstream media are based on. ideology like hotel poison not only

i don't think so because no one else was interested in poisoning hume well i mean there were several very strange deaths or. western politicians you put it your sense in the last few years like i'm just a leper who was called polish jew going off home to god so depressed that he hanged himself in his own office and i want to ask him questions you know your kaido who was who was the black sheep of european politics you know the you convened wise men's meetings to see how his influence would be contained and then he just drove his car barely out of work into an excellent and i. was interested in this of course no one will buy it will not bother me yes all the pushing was interested in that well you know if you could do it so this is all based on a do or would you this is all based on demonizing certain people like you say a lot of bad things about some foreign leader and then something happens and then

you say oh well. well you know i mean but this is laziness as well ok i mean if there is that it's open to the many of these people does have a default position that they're not really interested in facts ok they they're interested in how you can perpetuate their political agenda here in georgia it's like you know another one that keeps circulating around even though him to be debunked is the bounty hunters. in afghanistan where you had the highest serving general american general and you had gone public and guess now it's about 3 or 4 weeks ago saying that he has heard nothing up there is there is he has no knowledge of this but but still in the u.s. a political campaign the presidential campaign it's still being circulated i mean so even if you go to the very source ok it's soldiers being killed by how a band that are being paid by the russians of and they whittled it down to someone

a soldier a former soldier or someone someone associated with the iraqi government that is one other percent depended on the united states and trump wants to get out and so all of a sudden this story gets circulated and then it gets down to well maybe you shouldn't leave afghanistan when the american public overwhelmingly wants that to happen but see that conspiracy continued to supply it to flow because it has political advantages for some. yeah that's exactly right and and you notice that even the in last week's the town hall debate biden again came up with this comes about the the bounty and of course the moderator george stephanopoulos did nothing to correct him none of the fact checkers did anything to correct their senate the tammy duckworth just about every day tweets out something about our how many days of pasta the 1st heard about the the bounties on the u.s.

soldiers and still donald trump hasn't said anything about it so it just has momentum of its own it doesn't it doesn't matter that it's been debunked apparently it's perfectly reasonable to peddle this sort of number of and in fact the whole russia gate thing is still people still peddling this thing about how russia interfered in the 2016 election and beyond with donald trump and then you know and that somehow the 26000 election result was tainted by russia no evidence has ever been presented i mean every single thing that we have learned since when you 16. that there really there was no russian intervention except for it what it did prove though we're going to go to a break will break what it did prove is that this was a conspiracy ok but they didn't prove it ok so instead of coal when we debunk it where conspiracy there is when when they were refused to rebut us you know that they they believe that their narrative how's about you because they won't they

won't debate around that jump in here gentlemen we're going to short break it now let's your break we'll continue our discussion on some real estate with marquee. leonella so it seems wrong. why don't we all just don't hold. any world yet to see how does the. to come out to it and engage with equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart. just to look for common ground. secret prisons are not usually what comes to mind when thinking about europe however he even the most prosperous can be deceived we've been busy rows on the work to view houses were. a prison were located on the only.

access to the story investigators uncovered the darkest dealings of the secret services but i mean. you great ignore. me for. saying for justice. welcome back to crossfire we're all things are considered on purell a bell to remind you we're discussing some real news. ok let's go back to the mayor here in moscow you know in looking at what the. what's happening to the internet in these platforms critically of facebook and twitter and then we can throw in google here we have seen particularly in the last

weeks last few days last week where they have very very stridently interfered into the political process and we're talking about the growing scandal and allegations around the vice president former vice president's son. and we have seen facebook and twitter actually acknowledge their involvement in this and they've kind of pulled back a little bit but i mean what's really quite amazing to me is then again we've talked about russia gave in the 1st part of this program all of that was based was not based on any verifiable public sourcing and they let it go on and on and on and on and then when they have a case here and we're all 3 of us are saying allegations i'm not i'm. lawyer i'm not looking at the direct evidence myself i'm looking at reporting on it and i will judge for myself but even that they don't want you to do that's what makes this

very very serious and very very dangerous and if people don't say something and be heard it will become a trend go ahead jim well basically if you look at some what they use agents against the so-called conspiracy theorists they're just very strange almost laughable i mean i'm quoting look you go here the conspiracy theory school aim that there is a criminal organization involved in the clintons a bomber and they use vestment banker george soros who are doing something bad to the world well everyone who has access to newspapers can see that maybe there is no secret organization but they share the same ideology the clintons obama and soros they supported the same eagle coos in georgia in yugoslavia in ukraine you know and they all the support them in the same words in the same

ways for the same reasons and it's public knowledge $38.00 policemen were killed in 2014 during the so-called peaceful my done before the legally elected president was toppled and instead of apologizing these people say the cross invaded ukraine out of nothing. without any pretext so. when they. accuse someone they excuse either their opponents or the messenger you know there was no one of a little bit of that you do tremendous i mean it is bad but you know for example the s.p.o. magazine. called saroj a monk name me one of the facebook phoned us saying that something i called something should be done because social networks now operate in like. chemical industry in the 1950 s. and their poison in everything they're all in themselves they grab huge profits and down lot and they're refusing to have any control over them well just recently we

heard from facebook and from from american politicians that nobody mitigations on the internet should be imposed in china in russia you know the congress well basically in russia there are almost no he needs a chance you know you can read foreign press you can read people queen and the boys and one of our own age not preheat it up it's not labeled we don't know what's actually in us or you know even something it's just i haven't seen it in russia i've seen it hundreds of times in the american internet so it's a very strange story clearly it. does not strange it's very easy to explain i think you're george i mean is that you know the interesting thing is that if we look again at the controversy surrounding the former vice president's ok with these major social networks are doing they're putting up. barriers on all

sides ok and what they want to do it's an instrument to maintain the status quo this is what this is all about humane change the people in power ok in anyone that it's rennes that status quo of the ruling and leads will be challenged and because of then the nature of the technology you can beat disappear i mean you've just gone from the ether ok and it's ideologically driven but it's also you know in a sense class driven to ok to protect. people's. assets and properties and things like is where they want to do it this ruling class wants to reproduce itself ok based on their ideas of merit and they don't want anybody else coming in and. you know what these internet companies are perfect for these people to maintain their power and position ok the fascinating thing is that we always think about technology is evolution in changing the next revolution all

that's right now nobody's people are stuck on status quo people go ahead george yes that's right and he goes back to 2016 i mean 2016 was a profound shock to the globally trumps shock victory in the united states the brics a referendum in the u.k. and from that moment own oppression a group only internet companies i mean because up until then the internet companies were basically you know they left but i had a pretty much a laissez faire attitude. because it seemed like most of the obama isn't would go on forever and from that moment on there's something the politicians the media saw that doesn't mean it is your fault you did it you allowed hootin to manipulate you you allow trump and only because there is this interest around trying to manipulate you you allow the bricks that is to manipulate you you better get to shape up or

you will be in trouble and the internet companies who are more powerful than any company that has ever been in the history of the world i mean found it all boils 80 and see where nothing of powerful is google facebook and twitter i mean they control the flow of information throughout the world. that thick power and once they decide who gets on the platform and who and how we can manipulate the algorithm so that no one can actually find you on google and of course you know they went abbott and so when he saw that oh it will just deny space to the holocaust deniers oh well we'll just deny do the neo nazis and willow just deny to alex jones it was step by step because they knew that oh it was fine you know that's a good idea what we're. we don't want to give space to the nobs it but then of course it started expanding well we deny the people who are opposed to vaccines well we'll deny platform to the people who express skepticism about the coronavirus

will deny now space the people who transmit information about hunter biden and stone and now we got a point when even the president of the united states this campaign. is closed down the presidents of press secretaries close down so they are totally involved in this election campaign and that there's a this is a and it will it only on one organization what they're doing what they're doing to email which is very very interesting is that they are these social media networks they are in a position to choose winners and choose losers ok they will choose who the public can have access to or what happened to the new york post is a very good example i like to remind our viewers alexander hamilton established that publication in some one of the longest running publications in america

and and of course you know it has it's very salacious it's a murdoch operation right now but it still has real journalists there the article that they presented the evidence they found on hunter but what's what what what really terrifies me is that if they'd have taken it upon themselves to pick winners and losers and what do you need to mock receive for they they decide to go ahead well you are right though for some conspiracy theorists is the double impunity for all the conspiracy thoughts i mean of the. you know the whole impeachment thing was based on an exam go balance in my the so-called facts you know a whole called presentation you know is facts being sat there. and force placed on a military base and his family was protected that's how democracy works you know. and somehow it was all to bunked i mean trungpa still in power and i think i'm the

women did not is not facing any questions you know how close you may go these allegations that i am quoting of the 60. there are many claims in the internet that any corny borrowed will be calling in the vatican and all those days before she makes any judicial decisions well below 20 but even you are punished for this bone and they can use the continuation oh and rush is behind everything everything you know everywhere you have russians well basically if you want if you want to know why nato became weaker it's not because trump is crazy is because after trump's election the european union had a summit meeting where they pronounced the american president and the russian president to be quote threats to european security so this huge conspiracy theory which is basically breaking the law and says this conspiracy

theory about some secret link between putin and trump it is this conspiracy theory that is key to nato alliance because how can trump trust these people who basically have a consensus declaring the president all the latest stage for the 1st day when history and threat to european security all the heat was said something like they have of course rules of was a threat to see of right but otherwise i don't remember any cases but european politicians will say and you can president you know he's dangerous he's a tough as boss and trump is an ideological threat because we criticize him a lot and i think you deserve scree just as much he's not part of that ideology was anything cannot just come down 1 at the except that you know they are using every weapon. against him bad as he's you know george you know we talked about the power of these of these companies and unprecedented power but you know it seems to me

that they're timid they're very timid people ok they're afraid of people thinking they're afraid of people drawing their own conclusions i mean you know people who criticise you know different experiments of socialism is the nanny state ok this is really what it is it's it's the the nanny internet it's the mini information's fear where it will all be controlled for you you'll be in a spoon fed ok or it is nancy pelosi say we feed the people don't get them believe that she said that but that's the mentality of these elites we feed the people go ahead yes yes and it was if you look at the people who stop these companies there was always. democratic operatives members of the obama administration or at senior positions within the d.n.c. and these are the people who then decide what we can see and i mean that. because they're afraid of the politician i mean they've they had was beautiful

caught out of complete impunity which you know it is so many who have been claiming to be this. they are not only neutral and of course they're right but this is not going to be taken away from them and that's our right that the government is going to come after them way dance. for a few years anyway against microsoft so you are basically a monopoly it seems to me and again i go back to might be says that you know these companies are in the service of status for their own wealth and influence for example and the politicians that will do their bidding here so it seems to me that you know obviously these companies are monopolies and should be broken up but the throwing his favorite word i'd. ologies long as they're in the ideological service of these people i don't think they're going to go down the power of anti-trust gentlemen will run out of time on a big i guess in budapest and most want to take our viewers for watching us here

are to see a next time remember. the world is driven by shaped. thinks. we fear him to ask. you know what i'm going to get there so i don't think about it i don't mean a grown man not me and our power. i kind of but i wonder. if

he now i think it's higher than the. members of the african mafia. safe and quick passage to europe but once they. leave the cult speech util. will not some of them leave be a mom and i couldn't you know if this unit were going to doubt it i mean. they sold the. lead. core of the important. because the persona that i can't even describe it in woman.

making a stand against radicalism thousands rally across france in the wake of friday's brutal slaying of a history teacher with a report reportedly killed for showing his class controversial cartoons of the prophet mohammed testing the tree shelves continue to fall in the ongoing territorial dispute between armenia and azerbaijan despite both sides agreeing a 2nd ceasefire we hear from locals on either side of the conflict what can i say about people who have no idea of humanity it is a pity that we are dealing with barbarians and terrorists medians also proclaim ceasefires but never observed them and occupied new territories. and go to health official how do we set up.