hello and welcome across town where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle there is a saying in washington don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good this appropriately describes the political warfare over another stimulus package at the center of this standoff is who wins or loses just prior to the election in the meantime tens of millions are suffering with no end in sight. to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guests brad like unshipped in gothenburg he as i call them is ed c.g. t.n.i. freelance reporter for she and how as well as a r t contributor and in greenville we cross to hannah cox she is a newsmax insider contributor to the washington examiner as well as host of base a monthly vodcast all right cross talk rules in effect you can jump in anytime you

want and i always appreciate it ok let's go to hannah 1st and that is there's a big standoff going on in washington another planned stimulus package and both sides of the draw on their lines in the sand. do you think there's going to be one and maybe in your mind is it necessary go ahead. i don't think there's going to be you want to least not before the election and i think it depends on who wins the election in november we'll see if we have another one coming down the pipeline or not personally i don't think we need to have another one i think we need to reopen our economy and we have had a 4 shutdown for many months we had an exasperating result of the pandemic we've been hurting small business as we've been hurting people and industries across the spectrums of our country it's really dire we see that we already are experiencing shortages in a lot of areas we absolutely have to get people back to work americans are looking for handouts they want to do their jobs they want to go back to their businesses that they felt and the fact is that we can't continue to say in economy there's no amount of money that we can just throw people to make this go away the stimulus on

the 1st time around was probably needed for the individuals i don't think that we should have seen at the port in corporate welfare that went to the industries the 1st time around but certainly we don't need another go up and that's the democrats are pushing for a republican largely agree ron what about you i mean i agree in many ways with having here but well it is far is working people i mean the very rich actually got richer during all of this they got they got welfare of their welfare that they didn't meet here but if you look at the 1st round it was the middle class and working people who were largely ignored or just temporarily given an injection what is your thoughts on this i mean should i i'm not interested in bailing out local governments or bailing out states and be anything like i'm interested in helping you get back on their feet and i'm the type of person that i don't like giving cash to people you know there's a lot of ways to help people but this is an extraordinarily time ok and a lot of people been put on their backs i because no fault of their own so how do

you stand on this. why i think we have to we have to look at it 1st and understand that letting people go on employed that was a political choice by the united states better government there was other countries for example in europe and where i live in the czech republic they were doing a wage subsidy system so for example you know the. government will pay 70 percent of the furloughed employees wages so that was a way that we could have done it here in this country we could have paid a wage subsidy for people to keep their jobs instead the government chose to let people go on employed and course when we talk about this there's this republican talking about this and his you know nonexistent non incentive to work well it was their choice i'm sure people would rather work as we talked about people don't want to hand out they would rather have their jobs because of course it's more secure you know as far as whether we're going to happen on the stimulus i think nancy pelosi in the notion or posi told minutes when we have 48 hours so my tomorrow we

should see something and i don't think it's going to happen peter say the truth i think we got it we really should go back oh if we want to point blame and i don't think it's really appropriate to do that but i think that what you're seeing is mostly from the republican party because it was been it's been them that's been refusing to convene mitch mcconnell didn't convene the senate until now we have a supreme court justice and it looks like he's lucky in that when his election or to keep his senate majority because i think personally i think he thinks that trump isn't going to win and i think he thinks that the only way that he can keep his senate majority is by getting in green card justice you know red say interesting because i pretty much drawn the same conclusion we're going to hunt him down right now i think the thing i get that sense here is that i and this is very cynical and cruel politics in my opinion here because in there and i think among standard republicans and we can make it as we can make a separate program that. they don't see trump is winning this election and.

biden will inherit an economy that has deteriorated even more i'd like to point out to our viewers we have a situation some of this in 1032 going into night when franklin delano roosevelt was a knock you rated and that was from november to march this i mean it's going to be from november. january what do you think about that if it's true is it really cynical part of the republicans. i think it's a really cynical outlook and there might be a few that feel that way certainly i don't think you're going to see a lot of people eager to help joe biden bring in a great economy and so i think maybe you know there's a small amount of people that would be in that camp but i think most people that are in the republican camp recognize that we can't keep doing anything like this is not sustainable that it's not going to actually clogged the bleeding for very long and that we have to really move towards other solutions now it is important for now republicans were happy to move forward with another stimulus plan and the difference was that they were bigger and out the amount for the democrats the democrats wanted some

a trillion the republicans wanted like well less shy and they both are ok with any a vast amount of money and so i think that maybe they're playing politics with some extent i think certainly they they are preparing for trying to lose i think it's definitely biden's race to lose at this point it seems like it's trending in that trajectory so we'll see what happens as a whole i don't think that they're coming through alicia standpoint i think this comes back to free market limited government viewpoints and we know that any like this bailout like this don't work and again they always save for their cronies the people who are wealthy the few the connected the big businesses they don't go to the little businesses they don't go to the people it's a really screwed up way and i cannae well great it goes back to you know you've all heard it before i mean if we look at this year 2020 then the very rich got socialism in the the rest of the people got his i'm ok i mean there's something inherently unfair about that i mean you know it ideologically i'm probably closer to handling this year but at the same time you know you have these issues of people

losing their homes when you lose your job you lose your health care is one of those peculiarities of the united states here i mean there's a lot at stake right here because you know i look at how the europeans that if you keep people whole but that's the hope that's the goal keep old as we get out of this year and i think that you. there should be more of an effort on this by both political parties because you know the way i look at it is that you know it's who is going to win and lose the political edge going into the election and those tens of millions of people i mentioned in my introduction they don't really matter they're not part of the political calculation that they might being too cynical going after a. well i think that's right of course the whole o.c. i mean you know people on the left always say oh i see needs to be more hardcore she needs to be mark or to negotiations but it's not this is not a right she's not a very tactful politician of course she's just trying to tank the election for trump she knows if another stimulus gets out he's got to check going to people with

his name it's going to help him even just a few months and she doesn't want it you know it's of course it's petty but the real tragedy here is look if trump loses if this happens if she does not get this stimulus passed trump loses we're not going to have stimulus until january or february for individuals i mean that's just how it's going to be i mean there's no way like i can said republicans don't want to have joe biden a better economy i'm sure mitch mcconnell i mean what you know in kentucky where i live we call him the darth vader about i mean that's really his ideology he's just going to bring a reckoning for democrats we know that it's going to happen because you want so when the midterms i mean he's just only ideological i think trump is not committed you know to his job personally i mean i think that trump he's got committed to this job i think he doesn't want to get it back if he loses if he wins if he loses you know that he's he's out you know him and brad brings up such an excellent point here i mean you know what was it one of trump's last tweets i mean you know i mean he treats a lot so maybe it was a 24 hours ago you know you know go big or go home ok i don't understand why it

wasn't saying this weeks or even months ago ok i mean this is just. a negligent political negligence here right now and it gives too much leverage to nancy pelosi and and i think i don't see him going on twitter and this and staring down the g.o.p. in the senate saying you know if you don't do this i'm coming after you i'm coming after you on twitter and he never does he is actually very distant from these that gauche asians until the last the last inning is if i can use a baseball for him well i won't pretend to be able to psychoanalyze tromp i'm going to this can feel. it is most american sister he's coming from and what he's doing on this day so. i'll leave that to people with better degrees than me but i will say that certainly there it's kind of a rock and a hard spot there right i'd like to see polling on what percent of the republican party actually supports stimulus and wants to see another round of it i know speaking as someone who's kind of more of

a libertarian bent on republican party i don't want to see another round of stimulus i don't want to see more of my tax dollars going to united airlines or american airlines or or to boeing you know that's ridiculous and it's a lingering wonder well what about 2 workers to work there is that the 1st round you know and i think if anything i'm very rarely in favor of government spending programs but if anything if there is some sort of for shutdown as we experience and people are being forced out of war then i think it is appropriate to get people to know their tax dollars back that they have paid into the system as we saw happen with the call $100.00 checks that most americans got now that was not aware that the vast majority of those trillions of dollars in the 1st stimulus package never left right that was a very small percentage and i have no faith that this congress would in any way make sure a 2nd round was better about that we know who they're going to on in these things it's never the people they don't on the people that's not the way our system is rigged and so it is a really screwed up version and it's not capitalism it's not free market and the 1st place but certainly when we're looking at forcing people out of business we're

not i mean in a bailout people should be dealt out which again are the individuals and the small business owners but what is until you are both political parties i mean they're trying to garner their votes the people's votes when they can't be bothered to sit down and get get into the weeds because like i said of bailing out the airlines no i'm not for making sure people that work at the airlines get something that get them through i'm florida ok and because airlines were bailed out and then they go buy their own stock and then they fire people all against the rules that if a middle sized business in denver colorado breaks the rules you'll end up in court for a god's sake for you know defrauding the government ok go ahead brad before we go to the break. well you know as far as bailing out the companies i mean i think there's some argument to be made that it actually could be a good thing if it is tied to the condition that you don't lay off your employees and i for example i was there when they were it was the condition before they did.

well and they were there was the condition before and then some of them said oh you know we don't want the government money now like now magically don't need the government money when they say you can lay off your workers we had a similar situation over there we're going to do it with t.s.a. check airlines smart wings group in the czech republic the government was going to say ok hey will balance out but the government going to be a 90 percent shareholder so i personally would be in favor of that if the government actually took over the hill or solvent and then you know them back. so i'm back yeah i mean it's good work there's an argument seem to be made here if you let these companies go out and people are out of work obviously the economy has tanked i mean i think the government has to have a really central role and i think if you look at the economy all the only economy a major economy that's growing this year and the one that is now the largest economy in the world by purchasing power parity china and that's exactly what it does well that's what it's very interesting and i think you know this because people were forced to go on unemployment i think that we have to have a serious rethink and what government should do when we're going to do that after

a break we're going to jump in here we go to a short break about that i'm sure in your discussion on the stimulus package they. don't i mean maybe at their school i don't think about a lot of aspects i don't mean yes that i don't mean not me and our 4. i kind of but i want it on course if back and i think now i think it's have enough. members of the aisle to come mafias conway's them safe and quick passage to you it up but once they have i. believe they count speech you would or. would not some of the they be a mom and i couldn't you know if this unit can get it out to hand.

them by law can have a judge a to the chain quit me out of the they sold the board because she. can call out of the united. with the persona that i can't even use coubertin woman .

americans love by and. this was a fundamental part of how our political leadership and our country at large understood the bargain you get a hope and then you know rebel right as the things you don't revolt if you have a stake in the system. be really interesting. and think about the longer deeper history housings men in the united states not just that question of the american dream but the bigger question of who the dream is and for .

welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle remind you we're discussing a new stimulus package. ok let's go back to him here i mean you know one of the things i've been thinking about during this entire economic crisis is because it's a crisis depending on where you are i mean if you're unemployed you don't have health care it's a depression for you and if you have a squabbling politicians in washington jockeying for political advantage well you don't know what to do maybe you're going to lose your house are going to go into bankruptcy so many think there are so many of those stories going on here but i mean it i think this time to start rethinking what the economy should do for people here because as we've pointed out in this program the the the cronies and their friends say you know they're given money that they didn't even need so you know i

consider myself a conservative but i don't think of myself as a libertarian because i would like to use government and government money to get my agenda through and not just say let the market take care of it because the market isn't taking care of it ok it's not ok 2008 now we have to help when we have got the most additional week ready for your week going to be you have a growing number of people in america they just see the economy as a wreck for them the millennial i mean go even further back i don't respond well i think the notion that we had any kind of a free market in this country in my lifetime is kind of laughable we have it it's like people who want to tie up the market regulations and red tape and say look at family that's not saving you well it can't it's tied up it's bogged down what we've seen is an economy that has been racked by people doing what you said pushing care the agenda they want to say they want to pick winners and losers they want to do what they think is best manipulate. economy and it goes badly every time we see

that that has hurt people we've seen that that has enriched a lot of the few and continued to make the lower half of our society poor it doesn't work and that's why we do need a free market because this allows people to give money to the places that are actually producing something that makes their lives better and that's all that free markets mean instead we had these businesses propped up i would love to never fly american airlines or delta airlines again but because they're on that with the government they control the routes they control how many gates they get at the airports they control largely different cities that they go to i don't have a lot of options because these businesses are propped up by the government they fight they lobby they spend money to prevent new airlines from coming in and offering better service as offering cheaper services that's what happens when you see the government get in bed with this we always lose as the consumer we always loses the employees it's not a good deal and so i have to push back on the notion that the 2008 recession and all of these problems were the cause of the free market that's not true we know it was the cause of government getting

a bentley it only note ok fine then we can agree on the point to be the winners and losers are always picked and it's in the end it's because they have influence in washington again in 2008 barack obama had the chance to of a lifetime of to be a great president and to start pushing back on these big banks that destroyed the lives of so many people but he didn't ok and the people who are left behind i mean the number of people that experienced bankruptcies and being thrown other house but they're still feeling it today and 2020 and now we have this happening again i mean but i think we're maybe are going to sides of the same coin and let me go to brad here i mean i think you know when we have a situation like this and the government exists of its magnitude united states it's incumbent upon the government to go in interest and they don't agree with having here this is not something for ever ok not forever but to make sure people can get through this. because what we're seeing right now is a k.

recovery where the lower and lower leg of the case means you don't even matter you don't even really amount to the economy anymore so why should we help you they're just being left alone and forgotten because there's no political consequence for that's a dangerous situation had brought them well i mean though and though a crassness is totally because of deregulation i mean it's because the derivatives market all the stuff that was. the decriminalization of some of these really risky different things i mean look this is totally because of deregulation and the same thing we're saying now. what what we're seeing now in this country. well what we've always had in this country is actually as you mentioned is that we have the supremacy of capital over the government and because of that we have the system back we have that works when we talk about the total free market libertarian pure capitalist system i mean this is as academic as so my friends that are usually a cynical it's you know whatever i mean this is cool like you want to go live in

this kind of world that never existed i mean go right ahead but this is the real world there are systems which which the government is has to reign supreme over capital and then again as i mentioned before the break if china china has broken what i what i seen you know that we are living now in the great transition some people are calling you know from china the united states going 2nd china becoming the 1st world economy or major power in the world and. peter i'm sure you've read mark fisher's capitalist realize i'm we have now i think broken this realism in this capitalist realism where we are programmed to think that this is the only way that things can work which is the only way to be successful the only way to create economic growth it's just not true when you look at you see and in this country the i have family here that i'm with now the united states that's something else america is the greatest country in the world where you have so much economic growth and you look at the unemployment you look at how many millions of people are going unemployed. how many people are losing their homes how many people are struggling

to get food good banks who is it great for i mean and we also have the democrats are saying hold it be this election is going to destroy you know that the world is going to end if we don't like joe biden is like well you know for most people the world's already over. i had to rush back and letting them but i don't think you know i'm very successful about capitalism it was starving their people were starving and till we opened up trade with them until we started buying their products until we opened up capitalism for their people the only reason china surpassing us is because we've been spending money and time places we shouldn't spend money we've been involved in too many countries foreign policy we've been playing defense for too many people we've been taking the wrong end of the stick for decades and we're allowed other people who are your kind of pride in me i know a. hugo i would die i would have to finish go ahead with it ok well no i'm just i'm saying i think that there's this really weird thing that i see happening where people point to china and say look there are systems working better than ours their

system wasn't working better than ours are people are brutalized their people are still not given basic freedom of choice basic freedom of movement it's not any kind of place to point to and say look kind of better they're doing than us they're not and it's only by our openness that they in any way are feeding themself so i think that you have to point back to use it happens the excesses that it's so great that when we even get a little bit of a capital is going into the market in communist countries they're able to elevate themselves quite rapidly because of that buying power exchange which i mean i think the thing is that how things work market is not capitalism is not a market i mean you can have markets under a socialist system but i think if you actually look at those speeches that she shouldn't think gives or the communist party of china i would i would really challenge you to find anything that bet is talking about this premise sea of capital over the communist party. is ridiculous i think and the idea that there isn't some basic liberties in china let me say what i have a friend right i know somebody who works at c.c.t.v.

who is the biggest trump supporter in the world ever mcgregor you know i have another editor that i that i work with as he did jim it's a fan of connelly's or rice george bush and boris johnson they have more free speech and freedom of thought in china than you can even imagine in the american media and that is particularly part of what makes them so successful. they literally shut down t.v. channels when they show different trump rallies and statements they can't use different social media channels they have book burning and they go into hong kong and disappear people who in any way are running somewhere there's ioseph internet on everything what why is that here or there i mean what what what i think that you know the this whole exceptionalism ideology in the united states you know it's going around pointing fingers at everyone else but what about the livelihood of tens of millions of people in america i think we should focus our attention that ok and on top of it i've been to china you know capitalism exists in different forms everywhere there's certainly chinese characteristics of it ok but as we have tens

of millions of people struggling in the united states a half a 1000000000 people in 50 years old out of poverty ok so for me it's 2 civilizations that are very very difficult to compare though they both have similar economic systems and in china it's working for chinese a lot better see what time we have here and a response. well i just disagree that it's working for chinese people better either quality of life is nowhere close to what the quality of life is in this country and i do think we need to focus on workers we do need to get people pathways for and make sure that they are able to pursue their passions their dreams to work hard and see the results of that i think it's utterly ridiculous to say that our poor in america are living so much worse than poor in other countries we do see consistently that people in america have it better than other countries we do see that you still have better opportunity here and you have many other countries there's a lot wrong there's a lot being rigged the system is not free market is not capitalistic this point and that's wrong and we need to remove those barriers that actually hamstring people

what we need to rapidly running out of time and get we've had trump for 40 years ok and his supporters will say the economy was you know buoyant doing very very great until january february ok and they keep running on what happened the past nobody votes for the past nobody vote for the president how is joe biden if he's elected how different will the approach be better because it seems to me it doesn't really matter because they have the same donors and they still be making pandering to the same rich people you know this is all compute key theater what's going on right now because there are fundamental problems that are not being addressed and this doesn't look good go ahead year. well i think you're absolutely right i'm not a trump and i think it's laughable when people say he's a free market candidate or person like what the i haven't said what i want to get i don't know what i want yeah there's nothing to me that really symbolizes i think he's done a couple good things right like i think the regulating has been good i think we've

seen some good news from that i think the little bit tax cuts we got were good and yeah there was a good economy for a little bit there but you're right people will go back and vote on that there's also been some really bad things there was a trade war going on that was continuously going to have ruinous effects on our economy and i think some of that i swept under the rug due to the pandemic and so it was sort of a mixed bag economically for me all along as far as looking forward you know when i am comparing and trying to decide what i personally am going to do i don't see much of a difference i think you're exactly right i think both will continue to be bought and paid for i think that's the problem is systemic right the problem isn't the candidate people who say market we have better candidates why can't we have you know more options why can't we have x.y.z. well there isn't this because the system is flawed at its very core and we're not talking about addressing this or a problem here because system is lot ok you can't break into it ok i mean we have trust we have these monopoly tech companies that the cost of entry is just impossible right now and we have 2 political parties that doesn't allow different

you know i'm a conservative but i have nothing to do with the g.o.p. ok and i know a lot of i know a lot of left wing people that just find the democratic party to be a plague i mean there are millions and millions of people like us were shut out of the game ok because of the donor class and so many other things here i talk too much of my own program that's all the time we have you want to. read and turn up for joining us here in our so you next time remember. the single greatest most important aspect of any functioning society is price discovery accurate price a scary marsan than any moral or aesthetic or ethical. kind of set of rules because without sound money without sound prices coverage you don't have

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