bill you great to have you thank you scotland's forgotten football hero is the focus of the alex sullivan show next day it is a tale we're cheering as well it all begins and always stay with us. thank. you. welcome to the alex salmon show from richmond in london and to the 1st of 2 special programs marking black history month the concept of black history month can trace its roots back to 1920 s. in america when it was expanded engage official recognition in the 1970 s. it has been celebrated in the u.k. since 1907 and the month of october this year has been given additional impetus to

the search and support to the black life back to movement following the slaying of george floyd and minneapolis in may the focus this year as ever has been on key historical figures such as martin luther king and frederick douglass or don discussions an examination unthreaded current racial injustice however how about the forgotten heroes black men and women whose achievements have been all but written i took history today for a 1st year marking black history month will tell the story of one such man a footballer and captain of his country we consult the finder of the scottish football new zealand and one of england's greatest players john vines. here in richmond symmetry seems an unlikely last resting place for the most successful captain of scotland in football history for this is the grave of the man who led to his country 61 3rd acting of the old eddie of england on their home ground still

the heaviest total defeat in the history of the steel lions we tell a largely forgotten story of a footballer who was as influential in the 19th century as pelley was to the 20th the year was $80.00 to $81.00 and his name was on 2 boards and today we do our bit to rebalance history and to examine the remarkable tale of the world's 1st black international footballer for this man should knight take his rightful place in a scottish football poncy and alongside told me walker jim baxter denis law and kenny dalglish but 1st over to alex in the studio with your tweets maestas and emails. plenty of use in the last week sure an economy which featured professor david blanchflower and alec neal and robin mcculloch plain speaking about new economic thinking in scotland and donald giller says the highly experienced politically savvy people the nor the following the same model that failed scotland

today will not work for the future terry says fantastic to see common wheels robin macao but on the show a man brimming with innovative ideas and a real passion for a better scotland and michael kelly says economies need to be placed on a war footing joining world war one us chris government doesn't it was only when it came to the treasury and lloyd george of the ministry of missions combined that they got the job done douglas smith says competency by the new administration just talking about america sets the tone better test contact tracing willing mass bringing down infection we wait for the vaccine stimulus national renewable infrastructure jobs fix inequality part shop health care hope chaos by a mile and book says we can get up and running if we impose the correct conditions and make sure we close loopholes so that we can get back to work safely and the robertson right center says elliott neil of course knows a lot about effective training and employment glantz 1980 s.

he was a hugely successful and dynamic chief executive of the comelec and didn't violate enterprise trust he goes on to say that a member to the advair for that trust to robbie coltrane dressed up as rob spear telling employers to get that applications in before the cutoff date or the would be a revolution and the before the chop the colored takut and says give our young people hope and a decent wage abolish zeal our contracts and scotland and finally lead thompson says good to see robin mcalpine i think greed and disagreed with robin over the years particularly his views on bracks that interesting to hear his views on the economy post covered and go back to the here oval cricket load which was the scene of funder watson's creators footballing triumph. the oval best known as one of the homes of endless cricket but back in the each 180 s. when billy stadium was 40 years away from being boat from 870 this to start

a grind with the most common venue for anger in football internationals and indeed f.a. cup finals the only games against poland where then as now you mostly england victories but on the 12th of march 18th $81.00 something amazing happened scotland arrive with no interest in you captain but a new style of football the passing game i'm probably thrashed the hosts 61 fighting for the scottish football museum general brian takes up the story with alex. jed when you came across this figure of under what was it was he some of the you knew that much about before the you were looking at a museum in the foundation stones of of scottish football and what. well to my shame i knew absolutely nothing about him and i was working on the feasibility study in 1990 we brought me to the queen's parks archives at the

old hand and i was looking through a book of old photos of queen's park in scotland team 7880 s. and there was this photo of the scotland team in their blue and white hoops and there was a black man stood at the back now has what i thought i was a football historian i knew the author wharton of preston north end in the late 1980 s. was the 1st black footballer so i actually refused to believe my own ah yes there was this footballer now there were 3 or 4 more pictures of him playing for scotland against wales playing for queen's park who at the time of the greatest football team in the world but it took me 9 years to prove that andrew watson was the world's 1st black international football captain before i could go

to the press so let's get tickets for who this man was so is born in the 850 s. british guiana is followed as a sugar planter not not a slave for others sometimes said because slavery had been long since abolished by then is brought to school it was. a local gagne's women were as father and mother and his father brought him to school in england and then it seems to be the key point was the he started studies at glasgow university. but was this fair and watson and fast found his football well i think i'm fairly certain that will be true they returned to london at 1st and lived in very very stylish surroundings in chandos street where there were about 10000000 houses that watson lived in but his father died in 1969 leaving him the equivalent of 3 or 4000000 and he returned to glasgow where he spent 2 years

studying and amongst other people nor kelvin and this is when we 1st see him playing and he becomes a match secretary for what was then a very well known team groet. so he as i young man will have learnt the way of the scotch professor that intelligent logical scientific passing and running and of course he was a sporting genius and he took the scotch professor game to its highest level now let's turn to the scene of his greatest triumph sword march 8th in $81.00 under what's the rise with the scotland team at the oval then the whole of english football captains aside and leads the team to this extraordinary 5 of 61 now how did that come about the scotland team beat england 61 and then

a form of english football because scotland played a game that was entirely different to the english game the english game which was a game of the social eat in southern england was a tripling game that came out of public schools and each job was to show that you did not need anybody us individual and you are ready to run the empire it's amazing that this was the attitude now scotland being a different country with a different culture for at least 500 years is how it played a passing and running game every week in most of the churchyards in streets of scottish towns so the scotland team headed by watson had come down and were playing a game where they passed and moved the ball which required thought which required

practice which in england was tantamount to cheating if you practiced you were a cheat because the gentleman amateur turned up and deliberately show that they weren't much but that would of course 61 and the following in 51. it was such a vicious blow to england that i had to learn how to try and copy this game that watson was leading so what's this career and international terms it was sex one against england at the oval the next year 51 for scotland against england back back in scotland and also a match against wales which i also think was a 51 victory so it will help us make them because they only got 3 cups how can some of the plays in the team which wins the game 6151 and 51 only get 3 international caps what happened to unfortunately he moved to england in 1082 after the

51 game and anglo scots didn't get picked. so we've already established watson was was successful international captain scott of all time again the game against thing when it was the world's 1st black football administrator in queen's park and part of grove was the at the far what was 1st black professional football as he as he pursued his career in england well the evidence is starting to mount because. in the media 886 playing for london swifts pilgrims' brentwood london caledonians he then moves to liverpool and turns out for brutal in 1887 now an unknown anonymous person seen an objection to the english f.a. that watson is being paid because at that point they had accepted

professionalism but under strict rules like you had to live within 6 miles of the team you played for so they got away with it and i have a thought that they got away with it because watson was able to rely on his upper class pals in the english football establishment who would certainly not of wanted to embarrass andrew watson but i am going to say he was the world's 1st black professional footballer. under watson how would you put of in the world pantheon of football could just say that in the 19th century he was as influential as well let's say pele in the 20th century no disrespect to palin is it genius football. but that's where his influence sense i'm sure watson played at

a time when england in 1902 had to it to be that they came was wrong and they set out to copy andrew watson and the other scotch professors this game went through england and through scots and english people who followed them went around the world he is easily and by far the most important black sportsman of the 19th century and probably the greatest footballer of all time join us after the break where we continue the story of andy what's new and look at how the influence of black player says helped transform attitudes towards visit them among 5 china thing. let me. bring. my face

for. us losing rolaids we have part of the brain right here in the middle that's on the right side very high with assimilated. even healthy people one of the groups for sold out of body experience. welcome back at this famous grinded might 881 and he was the lead has got insights told of markable football victory alex is in discussion with g.i. joe bright and then joined binds of liverpool and england what happened to under watson after his footballing career we've been to is his grave side and richmond but what happened to anger was when to go after football. well after

football he operated out of liverpool as a marine engine in for 20 years that that was his job he eventually moved to kew probably a mile north pole 'd where he is buried and as happens he was forgotten if you can remember one great player per year for 50 years you're doing well so when he was buried it went entirely unnoticed because by the 1920 s. everybody just knew that england invented everything he had been forgotten now if we were to understand the truth of andrew watson we went and have to accept that andrew watson was one of the inventors of the modern game now seeing as he is an english that couldn't be allowed but jet of course as the work of yourself and others under what's as experiencing something of

a revival the mutal that you mentioned and glasgow tell us about how the importance of under watson is now being revived the whole of that his name will soon be on the lips of every scottish child knowing whether what a great football influence he was i'm hoping that in the next 5 years there isn't a child in scotland who isn't proud to venture watson but the road is long and hard because he has to be placed into the curricula hundreds of media reports need to be done on him and they need to be repeated year that's going to be a very very difficult thing it's going to take us i would say 20 years before people start accepting that there is an argument but obviously with my book in the work of what is becoming more and more people around the world we will eventually succeed in placing and you watson in the pantheon of world football. alas

they have a young black kids in scotland important might it be to them to know that the country was kept by this amazing player way back in 1008 is wouldn't that be an extraordinary thing to understand and to know of a skull absolutely i always tell the children that like them i'm on a jock terms and spans i've moved to glasgow 30 years ago i've been accepted and i'm able to say and look at andrew watson for those of you up a lack of a right in the last few years here's a man of whom you can be proud and he shows you that you can succeed because you will be accepted gentle brian thank you so much for telling us some of the remarkable story of underworlds thank you. now exactly 100

years after andrew watson became the world's 1st of a black professional footballer signed for the messiest idema bootle a young man called john bob sign for liverpool football club john welcome to the alex aman show thank you very much for the pleasure under what's a given have the figure of this extraordinary story of a black captain of scotland led his team into sex one flashing a final and that was lost from the the annals of football history why do you think that is i obviously was on your come on the show i did some research on it i did know about scotland's 61 section of england as all englishman do but to know that there was a black man takes a scotland of the time of course not why was last of the annals of history was because of course a lot of people you can go back to someone for example like tony collins who was the 1st manager back manager from rochdale who won the league cup that no one knows about we assume that that's what we're starting with the band isn't and that manager started with in the eighty's or ninety's whatever the 1st manager came up

so of course we don't know much about the historical aspect of so many blacks think it's in history and that's why it's very interesting to really delve into so 100 years after the brutal side and watson you became only that the 2nd black player to sign for liverpool football club how much of that racism the do you encounter in that period of the eighty's ninety's. well of course people remember me citing political of the iconic picture of me back even the been on off the pitch against everton when i don't even remember doing it because of course back then i've been out of the field was a regular occurrence so while it was a high profile game difficult r.c.m. it's on me to make a big deal about it i was in 1908. from $981.00 of us playing football that was a regular occurrence think it went to pay for what it raises and wasn't unique at that time it wasn't even discussed it was a part of everyday life not just in football but in society whereby people were racially abused and no one batted an eyelid so of course it will be a hot media attention very high profile people made

a big deal about how terrible it was but my thing even back then was about how racism in society is much worse in terms of what the average batsman goes through rather than me as a professional footballer earning the money i'm earning to the life i'm living who make it a race to be on a football field but silence racism and invisible when i was kids were thrown a black people every day of their lives just a society day late and yet that dominated that when they went to jobs the lack of opportunities and that's what i'm much more interested in and stepping out rather than complaining about a few races in bulgaria or some racist football fans and that's really what i'm now interested in doing a new watson and the 1880s was set of queen's park then the going to clubs in the world he was the 1st black football administrators so what does that tell us about the the lack of progress and 150 years speaks volumes as does tony collins the 1st black manager in england who managed rochdale not a big club the 6 years and won the league cup but he wasn't particularly successful

at rochdale however apart from the league cup however he stated it's off a 7 years so that tells you that although you're black and you are not necessarily being successful but they they judge you based on your ability because it paradoxically the letter when there weren't that many black people racism was less . the more black people that you have in any kind of street there is more racism because there's only a certain amount of elite people and if you have more people who want a slice of the pie to get into these positions that it then becomes of threats to the status quo so while you have one or 2 black people the racism doesn't have to be great because if there is they don't pose a threat to the status quo which is what 2 of them when there are hundreds of them they pose a threat so therefore a narrative has to be then be spoken about about the 2 groups but tensional 2 groups worth there was no discussion about answer what's its potential because it's there to be see or tony collins perception because that doesn't pose a threat to the axis the status quo that we don't want sets paradoxically there's

much more racism in countries where there are more black people rather than less and much more the lack of opportunity for those people because of that situation but i'm 1st have the story if i knew what's in just a few months ago. as something like most scots a mass than football as a child i felt really angry that i'd never have this guy. and was cheated that apart from the sex one freshening of england which i don't like to hear about but cheated that i had to have this great scottish plan to rebuild just a victory out of i mean you know you know that's of the later on that think that's rushing and he said that with such vigor and such meaning it was a 61 it was 61 beats and. those who are disallowed goals for scotland as well and for their benefit. but. how do you think it would have acted as an. inspiration role model for young black kids to know that the scottish captain and not triumph it was

a new watson would that in itself be an inspiration for youngsters very possibly of course black history month is about empowering black young young black kids to understand that their history is varied and you have excellent black people the possible intellectual point of the scientific point of view who have done great things but this is what would be good for a long while we've been trying to influence young black kids to see their heroes not just as boxers or football as a scene as intellectual seems a scientist so that's what we do more importantly black history month should be for black people should be for white people because white people have to understand the history of black excellence from intellectual and moral point of view we need white society to see if there's equal not for us to see ourselves as equal because i know are equal so the inspiration that i can give is fine but once again what we also have to do to have to say yes there was the most intelligent man in the world from a scientific or intellectual point to be was a black man i mean he wasn't but if you say that that's fine i was going to help young black kids now if they can get

a good indication if they're going to get stabbed by the time they're 40 because of the in a city that they live in whereby we have to solve that problem to give equality to underprivileged kids and how do you scotland as an example because when as you well know there was a huge night crime problem in glasgow many years ago 15 years ago whatever it was and it was seen as a in a city problem where i had to tackle the inequality in the cities for these young kids that was fine what is happening in london is not seen as an it's a problem seen as a black problem. and of course the more you have this narrative that it's back it's getting back it's well it was in scotland it was in the white problem and you weren't see white unworthiness or whites delinquents he was in a city problem and john you came as a lad from jamaica to england but if you could have played for scotland if the scottish football association had moved a bit quicker is that true would you would you consider of playing for scotland if they just go off the back saves and cited you up i could have played for scotland or the not at all wells because my dad was a diplomat he's

a colonel in the army what's a sad person as a possible stimulus was that he was his classmate so i'm a little tough to make in family my dad got a diplomatic posting for 4 years so we did a great we just came because he was a he was a military attache also for years i'm going to go back to jamaica i went that offered a scholarship to go to american american university and while i was playing in the pop what's that saudi playing up to be a concept that's why i stayed so i became a british citizen not in the citizen so i could a place ready for home old nations england was the 1st one to ask me when i was 18 years old i could have played yes and i in fact when i 1st came to england in 1976 . i remembering them playing scotland at wembley i think that case when i won ilam of course we were jumping on the goalposts and they did the i think it's important scotland then you know it wasn't an england fan and i like me on the dog and you know i like the attitude of the scots so i was quite happy scarlett's between them then so i would say yes they would have they would have a good chance had stopped and asked me i would've played for scott. and finally joined by arms they and they stay mia in watching england play the oval will you

you give a thought to under what's in the scotland team of so long ago i had a great time at the oval when i came in $176.00 i went to the oval but that's all west indies destroying the cricket which gave me a lot of joy but of course next i'm at the oval it will be difficult for me to even think about that only because the oval to me is a cricket ground so imagining in the play scotland at the oval and scott winning 6 well and of course because i'm an englishman now i've been for many years. i don't want to think about scotland ever beating england which you can appreciate. but you have a thought that under what's well now i'll think about agile watson obviously and i would want answered watson to have scored all 6 goals but i want them to score 7. john barnes what for liverpool adding with thank you very much indeed thank you very much you could have it was fitting that it was a little cooler scotland the only time peter. thanks very much. at this

famous grange in march 881 and you want to lay to scotland team into football history his career saw him play for the greatest club sides in the world queen's park and couldn't see him but his extraordinary talent didn't trailblazer for other black players it was to be almost a century before celtics paul wilson became the next black player kept for scotland and 130 years before if you might be a kid became the 1st black women to captain scotland scotland was not alone in being slow to see black players bricks through and the beautiful game before the 2nd world war international football was basically i know all white sport since then black players such as england's greats john barnes have transformed the game not least in the premier league gradually country by country this is helped change attitudes among the young as a battle against racism is carried forward generation by generation of great tension asked is why the unto was

a story has been lost to history that is until the work of people like james o'brien have now brought it back into the public gaze if past generations of scottish children had noone but one of the most influential figures in the foundation of the greatest game on earth with black and scotland's cuts and how would that have impacted on the battle to be endemic racism and what could it have done for the self-esteem of young white kids growing up in scotland indeed perhaps the over $881.00 it could have become as to attend it for scotland fans as when play in 166 is for anger and fun but it's not too late if a celebration of black history is to mean anything at all then it's a sticker such as andrew was sent to need to view this gift from the head bolts of the past and the stuart to their proper place as people whose contribution changed history changed for the better and inspired us all for the future and so for alex myself and all of the shoe is goodbye for now i stay safe and hope to see you all again next week.

seems wrong. to me. to stamp out just the attic. and engagement equals betrayal. when something you find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground .

new revelations emerge in the hunter amy old. former business partner columns forward directly linking presidential hopeful joe biden to his controversial dealings. the democratic nominee to face off against donald trump in the final debate before the u.s. election tonight there is stricter alteration this time a rodent with a mute button to prevent interrupt. the volunteer dies in a major 1000 faxing trial casting a stress zeneca job. on the conflict between. armenia rages all inspired to cease fire de.