we'll see what happens who knows those and who knows what we'll see on the field will be 6 with. the national guard has been deployed in philadelphia as the city braces for a 2nd night of on rest following the killing of a black man by police. while donald trump accuses u.s. presidential rival joe biden of making millions in a legit dodgy deals we look at nepotism claims involving both families. france warns its citizens in muslim countries to be vigilant that's in response to rising anger and protests after france defended the right to show controversial cartoons of the prophet muhammad following the beheading of a teacher who used them as a discussion tool in class. and fatigue is felt across europe as

restrictions begin to bite once again italians have been ignoring an overnight curfew choosing to vent their anger on the streets. as you can see italy is rebelling this government has decided to suppress the italian people to starve them to death. those are world news headlines for this hour for more on those stories and others give us a follow on your favorite social media platforms i'll be back with you just in about 60 minutes with more headlights see that. lou and welcome to your all things are considered competing about. nominally

speaking the role of the media is to inform the public this mission is now on hold large parts of the media landscape particularly big tagg actively intervened to determine what the public can know and from whom has controlled speech replaced freedom of speach. discuss the media and more i'm joined by my guest in los angeles kim iverson she is the host of the kim iverson show and in nashville we cross to roger simon he's an award winning novelist and academy award nominated screenwriter who is now the senior political analyst for the big times all right crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate the oh ok let's go to los angeles they always go to the guess they got a earliest for this recording that you'd be sheeted can you know something i've noticed and that's happening over a number of years but equally well since the advent of the trump presidency we're

of facts going in journalism may seem to an operator and or maybe i'm missing something here because if we don't have fact based journalism i understand the difference between back based journalism and opinion journalism and both are acceptable but fact based journalism seems to been suspended let's put it that way go ahead yeah i mean it's really difficult to figure out where we can find the actual fact based journalism these days and you know it's really interesting to me that so much of the journalists that are out there right now or the news organizations are in the entertainment news organizations are so against and so obviously biased again for byte and you know one of the interesting things about that is that they make so much money off of the trump and ministration being in the white house and so it's interesting that they blatantly they overlook facts or they don't even they don't report on them they don't give the full story and it's all

it's just head scratching to me that they would be this way when it seems beneficial for them actually that trump is in the white house yet you know roger is going to be something called the trump hangover in media if he loses on the 3rd because they're going to just they will miss him dearly they're going to miss him for his spot for their bottom line you think i mean people that have tuned in to find out what joe biden had to say go ahead ron. i think you're actually right to be a financial disaster. if fact is kind of funny to think about it because if they're fools they should now suddenly back up by you know 8 days before the election and try to get trouble like they did for their own benefit of course they'll never do it but if. we think you've got you're in trouble who is actually and so to be is i'm someone who woke up one morning and had 15000 twitter followers abducted from iraqi. i don't know could i complain i do you know i

thought about it for about a minute and a half and i said. first of all you feel like idiot oh the loss of all the student followers as if they're already shit works the as if it is real you can play to twitter. even a little bit bigger even then but that's the point here you know kim why should a woman what universe are we living in we're facebook and twitter to determine what newsweek can consume and where we can consume it here i don't know i mean i'm not a shareholder in these companies i i don't know if anybody elected them where they elected to anything except maybe boards from the shareholders i mean this is an unconscionable situation in an unprecedented one why should these private individuals be able to determine the the media landscape and and we're basically as citizens we we were told we're given the right to determine our political destiny

but we're not we're being interrupted we're being punished go ahead jim yeah i mean these are these media giants these tech giants are social media they are controlling the narrative and one thing that we really need to pay attention to is that yes they are private and yes they have the right to do it i suppose because they are private companies and people always point that out but they are being pressured by congress we have to remember that since 2016 and since russia gate and the democrats just blaming everything on russia russia russia that they went after the social media companies and saying you are to blame for russia and so they went after them they pressured them and a lot of this censorship that's going on with the big media companies social media companies is actually directly coming from congress and that is something that i think people shouldn't overlook that where does that fall when it comes to infringing on our freedoms and frank you know infringing on that 1st amendment with that government pressure it seems to me that that is an absolute and friend. you

know because roger the way things are going the people you know the powers that be you know the the professional manager real class that looks down on everyone here they're on their own he's complaining about conspiracy theories but the way they manipulate the media what do you get is result you get people thinking conspiratorial like why is this happening why. can't we i'm just no ok think the whole with the whole scandal or a leg scandal i'm always careful with my language surrounding the biden family you know i mean there i have been presented it meant something by some news outlets facts what they determine to be facts ok and fine let them go where they were when russia game was just allegations and and leaks and anonymous sources that were never proven ever but when you have a case you know there's a hard drive there are witnesses there or there are wire orders for money that these are real things that you know that we have a right to consider ok and particularly if they act accusation of political

malfeasance is in play go ahead roger well you know twitter gets away with it suppressing a lot of us because there's something called section 2 services the legislation which is now under review actively in the national homare no 2 senator and friend marsha blackburn who's in the forefront of getting a sort of revised where section 230 does he listen. is it sort of gives 2 or facebook etc a firewall gets to be sued for show us material or suppressing it serial which of course they do and if it causes it to its reach them is as if they were not publishers but of course they are publishers in fact in the country increasingly publishers so they begin to getting away with murder and in fact there's they're smarter publishers new little published it is no use this

release from losers so. in that way if i think that people should support this sort of revising up to 30 because that's really going to hopefully help i think it's going to go much further than that telling them to get them i mean you are the product coming these are private companies because when i think that all of us were under. we seem to understand censorship as the state censoring people hear it and i think that's kind of a more pure traditional definition you know but we don't live in that world anymore of day spoken twitter arse essentially utilities now they function is utilities right now and so i think the censorship the willows we have about censorship should be applied to them because they act like utilities and they don't act like monopolies they are virtual monopolies so these last shouldn't apply to them as well so we have to amend and do 30 isn't going to be enough ok we're going to have

to do more because if we don't do it pretty soon that we won't know what we're losing we don't know what we don't know him yeah absolutely these social media companies are in fact utilities we are not you know if they're publishers the way that they're sort of behaving at this point then every single one of us that's using the platform is essentially what some kind of contract or of their publishing service where we're where they're editorializing us and are we being hired i mean if it becomes this kind of interesting where do they really fall and they haven't been able to to really define their business model and for the user it's obvious what the business model is we're using it to connect in the same way we use telephones to connect the same way we use or any other sort of service to connect with other people and they're saying well no but you might be able to to blast out your opinions and your fake news conspiracy theories to thousands of people all

those thousands of people had to actively choose to follow you they had to actively choose to friend you or watch you or subscribe to your whatever it is 'd the platform so really the definition for these companies does need to be nailed down and then after it is completely defined what they are then they do need to be regulated in a way that is appropriate for their business model but in my opinion they're absolutely utilities and they should not be getting in the way of my communication with you. you know kim brings up such an excellent point because all 3 of us we create content what about what about our rights ok as creators of content here because you know roger the same thing happened to me on process i mean you know you i notice that you know the number of hits for a program is gone down steadily but the number of comments remain the same it's really quite remarkable i wonder i wish they could explain that to me and of course other programs and then just for our you tube page subscriptions and wobble up and

down and there's no rhyme or reason to it and when we ask there's never an answer go ahead right there in syria they control the algorithms and internet rees's you and i asked him are all too seriously at their prey whenever we write say on t.v. are all letter is is under their control and we have no idea what it was really. and they changed all the time us so receiving worse and i think this then google's more dangerous even eventually replaced. so. i mean going back to a chemists saying we're trying to curry entirely. the fact that we have fact that these companies are global. usually influences nucky history has even remotely. i mean these are sort of did ish there you know i did in the country where you can even see them like you know rand or someplace they haven't worked out or lead any.

new never beyond is there to be a control with global information global this is really scary actually i mean it can but it makes it more scary is that there's no accountability i mean if you look at how we have a politician you can you know you know bring out your broom and you know just say you know sweep them away and the next election year there's no accountability i mean you know for example the way they're treating the that the story surrounding hunter buy up i don't mean they don't give us any explanation why you're doing what you're doing when you went after the president of the united states for almost 4 years. without any facts that were discernible and provable but in this case there's a lot of interesting things but there is one so it's one sided it's hypocritical but they still don't say you think they might i know that they're being told in front of congress to explain themselves i will eagerly listen to what they have to say because there is no explanation reasonable honest explanation for what they're

doing. yeah there really isn't i mean they it it and it is interesting it's kind of what you said earlier where this they're controlling the narrative leads us all into feeling even more conspiratorial i mean they say oh we got to stop the fake news of the conspiracy theories but then the rest of us sit back away and we see them doing as we see them controlling the narrative censoring information choosing what we can and cannot say i mean even groups of doctors researchers politicians journalists everybody gets censored on their platform it doesn't seem to be just tear your basement dwelling conspiracy theorist it seems to be anybody and everybody that they just don't agree with or a narrative that they don't like to hear and it is something that it is very scary that that it's a formal. mind control i mean it sounds conspiratorial right but it's a it's a form of mind control it's a form of brainwashing the public into believing one narrative and one narrative only and they aren't held accountable they got away on hard braking that's not hard

anymore discussion on media and journalism and. the maternity town the slums go in and you may never get out. of. my teenage gang rules here because i never want to. let the my neighborhood. but. the navy will be very. nice. and now it's looking for

the yeah. and melanie when. the monkey. communes all i see. welcome back to cross talk were all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you what conking about the media. ok rogers go back to you in nashville i mean one of the things that's very curious for me and maybe you both of you have a different experience but you know because i do watch the media and i do try to watch a wide array of media even though i really it's really cringe the most of the time

for me i don't really have a very difficult time understanding what they've been penned demick is all about and what you should do because it's been so intensely politicized and it's very very confusing and i wonder sometimes if that's just being done intentional just used the word mind control which of course i think would be much more controlling people's behaviors ok and i'm not asking you to take a side on this debate about the pandemic but i think it's very damaging for the public when you get such conflicting because everybody seems to own science and except for one scientists are censored ok i mean that really scares me ok i don't have any background in this kind of stuff i don't understand i look to authorities of legitimate authority is but then they say well he's a legitimate doctor he's not he's a doctor but he's not legitimate he's political and they start pointing fingers at each other i think that that's a really huge disservice that we have right now and and and facebook and other

platforms they weigh in on it you know i get this all the time on facebook about coping in coverage and news and fake news and it's as i find it really bewildering and it really damages the confidence the public house in the authorities. well you know we're a show here and everybody seems to be agreed because i get to we agree with you. know to share it is my fault or was a radiologist and they. are the manhattan project so you. rock up and what does it say she taught me as a lawyer where there's no system to settle science. and. it was right. and it was a way yet in a way your apply of course is all these people are telling you what settles and hence it is and every meeting facebook at musically is very top of all of that and

. we have things like the great barrington statement that just came out from the doctors wrong why did that through example masks are of little detail of the etc and these are real serious people and skip noted you know conspiracies it is series of people in their basements smoking crack never really in the real deal but it may be later although i don't know if you know me or we don't know we are not given the opportunity to think for ourselves. potentially that's exactly what's going on here they don't want people to think for themselves and they want to look not to look to these people but the problem with that is that i have a fundamental ideological difference with most of their the way they see the world ok and i refuse to submit i have my own views i will make up my own mind and i will go to the people that i think are authoritative that's our role i believe our

right to do but. i'm only so you know like when i put up a a video in the you know in the end do you monetise why is it the money times ok and then you know you have to write to them and a good number of times they say oh ok fine but sometimes they never do and they never give you an answer or go or you know it's just like you know it might be a writer's agent you know it's a xerox copy of something in that it's big xerox so many times it's built into the side and it's all faded you know it's like they don't care about you they don't care what you thinking ok i mean the i don't think people understand how ideologically driven these people are kim yeah i mean it's really a shame and regarding this pandemic the government's role really should be to give us information and as much information as there is and then we should be left to do what we want to with that information they should tell us look there spikes going on in your area this is where the spikes are occurring or this is what we're

finding with mask or this is what were you thinking with this or that just giving us the information and that is the that's the tool that we the people would use to make up our own minds and that goes for our previous discussion about social media and the censorship we need information we need as much information as we can get from a variety of sources with a variety of opinions and then we the people get to make up our minds based on all of that information now they say well we might get also information but that's up to us and snake oil salesmen have been. there is all this time we need to determine what we think is truth and what we think is false that's absolutely true but the consumer has the ultimate sovereignty here and they and they forget that you know roger you know when i look at how much has really trying to change the media environment because it's really been quite dramatic and i don't i don't think you have to be a really keen follower of politics is that the media has kneejerk response to be

against everything he says and does and sometimes he actually has some good ideas and you can see does some good things here but when you have this kind of blanket thing against him if you end up being irrational you end up being against good ideas and follow ups and things like that because i don't know how the media recovers from this because they have conditioned themselves to be so ideologically driven ideologically correct i mean it's going to it's hard for me to fathom how they're going to react in a biting era if the times that becomes president ok i think it just you know like they did with barack obama never criticized him here well if that happens i'd like to remind all of these media people and detect why do you think donald trump got elected in 2016 ok if you're just going to fall on over the ideal not the person that you are i have some kind of ideological affinity with that's how the media has abandoned the good up with the for the good of the people ok people made up their

own mind in 2016 and that was the people's biggest mistake and they're going to be they have been punished for it and i think they're going to be punished even more even if joe wins next week go ahead roger well i agree with that there's a price i will name the right side it is a. big loons and there are always media day and the wake of the public to be suspicious and maybe i mean it which is good. thing because this truth about me as always is always believed by. and is written by humans ad and yet this year maybe you have. but there's no i'm biased humans watching this program i didn't see that it must be circulated area. but anyway i think. frankly. that's

a group that. solely what is it is so the whole of media may be horrible and the readers are the jurors who leave here are smarter than that that suits and we're trying to think through that a bit yeah you know kim. rushing game never seems to die if this is this amazing organism it's like this intergalactic by risks that it can survive under any circumstances ok and it can be employed i mean if you're it but if you're angry with the weather it must be russians fault ok or you know if you if you miss a meal it's because the russians made you do it ok i mean what's being you know adam ship you know i mean when he dines he needs to go to some medical institute where they examine his brain because of what happened to his brain how can everything go back to one thing ok it's extraordinary how this this ridiculous hoax has

a life of its own and it seems it's going to be quite convenient in the future oh and by the way in the modest of the dealing with the bible family have to do with china so i guess the russians did that true amazing go ahead and well if it ain't broke don't fix that that's a democratic strategy so they know that this works this gets people riled up this gets people to hate trump even more and to be more suspicious of hammond so relatives can go on and that's been the strategy all along and it really is unfortunate that. you know even with this latest rook at his taxes where they were oh gosh he only paid $750.00 what was interesting about that was where was russia remember they wanted to see his taxes so that they could figure out his connection to russia and they never found that instead it was a different scandal that they made up but they continue to harp on this russia narrative this russia conspiracy even without continually without gaining any evidence of it except they bought some ads on facebook ok kim. they been saying

something very of few years now and you still free to use it as much as you want in russian game there are there is there are there isn't much russia and there are many russians in russia. but we have learned here ok you know roger and you know how was it you know it it seems one of the things they don't ask you everything has been debunked ok but there is no reckoning no one in the media says yeah we got it wrong and i think they're going to pay very very dearly for that ok because you know we so much air time so much ink and so much has been wasted on this year and and it showed it unfortunately for me i'll show my pessimism here it shows that a grand conspiracy theory can work to your advantage if you get enough people on board. well you know i always like to think of a show make it as great comedy when somebody says it's not about the it is about

that. and you know if this is your example so much money has to be made out of shape. that it had a show to play to the rushes of people who look at china. but the. destitute as it goes to the media to like c.n.n. if they didn't complain about russia even fewer people are watching. you see it is not to be a part of the leg i think it's that if that applies to emphasize b.c. even more i mean it's amazing i mean rachel maddow is made an entire career out of it so she she's the media version adam schiff is the political version here and there's no downside to being wrong there you see that the power we have as individuals and as citizens is the shame of these people that's the power that we have and i constantly do it and i don't do it in a cruel way but i use their own words and their own suppositions against them ok

and that's how you win these arguments with these people but we're going full circle the last 30 seconds goes the kim if we don't know what we don't know that is the greatest danger moving forward 30 seconds but it you know we absolutely need to have freedom of information and that is the most important thing and when these big media companies and when our congressional leaders are pressuring the media companies to censor information they're not just censoring a person's ability to speak they're censoring my ability to hear it and that to me is even more of horrendous that they're censoring me from receiving any information or that they're forcing me to receive only certain information and that is something that we the people need to really be guarding against and saying it's not just about somebody's ability to say whatever they want it's my ability and my right to hear it so that then i can assess whether or not i want to believe it or what direction i want to go with that but all in all you know we really need to be

fighting back as the people we really need to be rising up and saying we will not tolerate this perfect way to end the program here i want to thank my guests in los angeles and in nashville and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here r q c x i remember. look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. i robot must obey the orders given by human beings except when such orders would conflict with the 1st law. or should be very careful about official intelligence and the point home p.c. is to create trust. on theories chimes in with artificial intelligence will summon the demon.

must protect its own existence as. you know we've broken a lot of stories over the years the hoax that is the fracking industry we broke the global structure against banker occupation and a bunch of other ones that we were in the lead covered it nobody else did i think now we've got a tiger by the tail here i think we're in the midst now of handing up the torch from the us to china the 1st to do strap is upon us. it just gets more and more evidence coming in.