go anywhere why not mean. when i come here. in just under 24 hours france will be the 1st european nation to go into a 2nd full lockdown the country will batter down the hatches on friday in its fight against spiralling cold with 19 infections and deaths. with less than a week before america goes to the polls twitter facebook and google face a grilling by republican senators and congress over their alleged anti conservative bias. and you can deny their platform to answer ship to the rest of us if we haven't some truth to you as president i guess you have. pandemonium and a surging pandemic just days before the u.s.

election philadelphia is rocked by widespread rioting in response to the fatal police shooting of a black man that has the city prepares to go into curfew. those are world news headlines for this hour for more details make sure to check out our website r.t. dot com and follow us on twitter on behalf of the international team thank you very much for watching and hope you have a great day. hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm putin about normally speaking the role of the media is to inform the public this mission is now on hold large parts of the media landscape particularly big tent actively intervene to

determine what the public can know and from whom has controlled speech replaced freedom of speach. discuss the media and more i'm joined by my guest in los angeles kim iverson she is the host of the kim iverson show and in nashville we cross to roger simon he's an award winning novelist and academy award nominated screenwriter who is now the senior political analyst for the big times all right cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate the oh ok let's go to los angeles they always go to the guess they got a earliest for this recording that you'd be sheeted can you know something i've noticed and that's happening over a number of years but equally well since the advent of the trump presidency we're a fax going in journalism they seem to have got the operated or maybe i'm missing

something here because if we don't have fact based journalism i understand the difference between back based journalism in opinion journalism and both are acceptable but fact based journalism seems to been suspended let's put it that way go ahead yeah i mean it's really difficult to figure out where we can find the actual fact based journalism these days and you know it's really interesting to me that so much of the journalists that are out there right now are the news organizations or in the entertainment news organizations are so against and so obviously biased again for byte and you know one of the interesting things about that is that they make so much money off of the trump and ministration being in the white house and so it's interesting that they blatantly they overlook facts or they don't even they don't report on them they don't give the full story and it's all it's just head scratching to me that they would be this way when it seems beneficial for them actually that trump is in the white house yet you know roger is

going to be something called the trump hangover in media if he loses on the 3rd because they're going to just they will miss him dearly they're going to miss him for his spot for their bottom line do you think i mean people that have tuned in to find out what joe biden had to say go ahead ron. i think you're actually right to be a financier. the fact is kind of funny to think about it because if they're fools they should now suddenly back up by you know 8 days before the election and try to get trouble likely to get through their own benefit of course they'll never do it but if. we think you've got you're in trouble who is actually and so to be is i'm someone who woke up one morning and had 15000 twitter followers deducted from my actual. i don't know could i complain i do you know i thought about it for about a minute and a half and i said. the source of all if you like idiot oh

gee last of all these 2 new followers as if they're already shit works the as if it is real you can play to twitter. in a little bit. but that's the point here you know kim why should a woman what universe are we living in we're facebook and twitter to determine what newsweek can consume and where we can consume it here i don't know i mean i'm not a shareholder in these companies i i don't know if anybody elected them were they elected to anything except maybe boards from the shareholders i mean this is an unconscionable situation an unprecedented one why should these private individuals be able to determine the the media landscape and and we're basically as citizens we we were told we're given the right to determine our political destiny but we're not we're being interrupted we're being punished go ahead jim yeah i mean these are

these media giants these tech giants are social media they are controlling the narrative and one thing that we really need to pay attention to is that yes they are private and yes they have the right to do it i suppose because they are private companies and people always point that out but they are being pressured by congress we have to remember that since 2016 and since russia gate and the democrats just blaming everything on russia russia russia that they went after the social media companies and saying you are to blame for russia and so they went after them they pressured them and a lot of this censorship that's going on with the big media companies social media companies is actually directly coming from congress and that is something that i think people shouldn't overlook that where does that fall when it comes to infringing on our freedoms and frank you know infringing on that 1st amendment with that government pressure it seems to me that that is an absolute infringement you know because roger the way things are going the people you know the powers that be

you know the the professional manager real class that looks down on everyone here they're on their own he's complaining about conspiracy theories but the way they they manipulate the media what do you get is result you get people thinking conspiratorial like why is this happening why. can't we understand no ok think the whole that the whole scandal or a leg scandal i'm always careful with my language surrounding the biden family you know i mean there i have been presented in something by some news outlets facts what they determine to be facts ok and fine let them go where they were when russia game was just allegations and and leaks and anonymous sources that were never proven ever but when you have a case you know there's a hard drive there are witnesses there or there are wire orders for money that these are real things that you know that we have a right to consider ok and particularly if they act accusation of political malfeasance is in play go ahead roger well you know rich winner gets away with it

suppressing a lot of us because there's something called section 2 services no legislation which is now under review actively in the national homare no to the senator and friend marsha blackburn who's in the forefront of your sort of revised where section 230 does free listening. is it sort of gives the tweet or facebook etc a fire wall gets to be sued for shorts material or suppressing a serial which of course they do it causes it to its reach them is as if they were not publishers well of course they are publishers in fact in the country new york recently publishes so. if you're getting away with murder and in fact there's there are smarter publishers new little published it is new year's is a release from those years so. in that way it i think that people should support

this revising of 230 because that's really going to hopefully help but i think it's going to go much further than that. i mean you are the product upcoming these are private companies because when i think that all of us were under. we seem to understand censorship as the state censoring people hear it and i think that's kind of a more pure and traditional definition you know but we don't live in that world anymore of day spoken twitter arse essentially utilities now they function is utilities right now and so i think the censorship the willows we have about censorship should be applied to them because they act like utilities and they don't act like monopolies they are virtual monopolies so these last shouldn't apply to them as well so we have to amend then to 30 isn't going to be enough ok we're going to have to do more because if we don't do it pretty soon that we won't know what we're losing we won't know what we don't know him yeah absolutely these social media

companies are in fact utilities we are not you know if they're publishers the way that they're sort of behaving at this point then every single one of us that's using the platform is essentially what some kind of contract or of their publishing service where we're where they're editorializing us and are we being hired i mean it becomes this kind of interesting where do they really fall and they haven't been able to to really define their business model and for the user it's obvious what the business model is we're using it to connect in the same way we use telephones to connect the same way we use or any other sort of service to connect with other people and they're saying well no but you might be able to to blast out your opinions and your fake news conspiracy theories to thousands of people well those thousands of people had to actively choose to follow you they had to actively choose to friend you or watch you or subscribe to or whatever it is 'd the platform

so really the definition for these companies does need to be nailed down and then after it is completely defined what they are then they do need to be regulated in a way that is appropriate for their business model but in my opinion they're absolutely utilities and they should not be getting in the way of my communication with you. you know kim brings up such an excellent point because all 3 of us we create content what about what about our rights ok as creators of content here because you know roger the same thing happened to me on process i mean you know you i notice that you know the number of hits for a program is gone down steadily but the number of comments remain the same it's really quite remarkable i wonder i wish they could explain that to me and of course other programs and then just for our you tube page subscriptions and wobble up and down and there's no rhyme or reason to it and when we ask there's never an answer

go ahead right there in syria they control the algorithms for that reason you and i asked him are all too seriously at their prey or whatever we write say on t.v. are all letter is is under their control and we have no idea where the real. and they changed and all the time us so we see who are saying i think this is dead google's more dangerous even then she replaced nokia so. i mean going back to a can was saying we're trying to curry entirely the the fact that we have fact that these companies are global. usually infamous is nothing if history has even remotely. i mean these are sort of did ish there you know i did in the country where you can't even see them like you know rand or someplace they haven't worked out or lead any. new never beyond is there to be

a control with global information global this is really scary actually i mean it can but it makes it more scary is that there's no accountability i mean if you look at how we have a politician you can you know you know bring out your broom and you know just say you know sweep them away and the next election year there's no accountability i mean you know for example the way they're treating the that the story surrounding hunter buy up i don't mean they don't give us any explanation why you're doing what you're doing when you went after the president of the united states for almost 4 years. without any facts that were discernible and provable but in this case there's a lot of interesting things but there is one so it's one sided it's hypocritical but they still don't say you think they might i know that they're being told in front of congress to explain themselves i will eagerly listen to what they have to say because there is no explanation reasonable honest explanation for what they're doing. yeah there really isn't i mean they it it and it is interesting it's kind of

what you said earlier where this they're controlling the narrative leads us all into feeling even more conspiratorial i mean they say oh we got to stop the fake news of the conspiracy theories but then the rest of us sit back away and we see them doing as we see them controlling the narrative censoring information choosing what we can and cannot say i mean even rips of doctors researchers politicians journalists everybody gets censored on their platform it doesn't seem to be just tear your basement dwelling conspiracy theorist it seems to be anybody and everybody that they just don't agree with or a narrative that they don't like to hear and it is something that it is very scary that that it's a formal. mind control i mean it sounds conspiratorial right but it's not it's a form of mind control it's a form of brainwashing the public into believing one narrative and one narrative only and they aren't held accountable they got away on hard braking that's not hard for discussion and media and journalism and.

seems wrong. just don't all. get to see how to stay. active. and engaged because the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground.

welcome back to cross talk were all things we considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you what conking about the media. ok rogers go back to you in nashville i mean one of the things that's very curious for me and maybe you both of you have a different experience but you know because i do watch the media and i do try to watch a wide array of media even though i really it's really cringe the most of the time for me i don't really have a very difficult time understanding what they've been penned demick is all about and what you should do because it's been so intensely politicized and it's very very confusing and i wonder sometimes if that's just being done intentional just used the word mind control which of course i think would be much more controlling people's behaviors ok and i'm not asking you to take a side on this debate about the pandemic but i think it's very damaging for the

public when you get such conflicting because everybody seems to own science and except for one scientists are censored ok i mean that really scares me ok i don't have any background in this kind of stuff i don't understand i look to authorities of legitimate authority is but then they say well he's a legitimate doctor he's not he's a doctor but he's not legitimate he's political and they start pointing fingers at each other i think that that's a really huge disservice that we have right now and and and facebook and other platforms they weigh in on it you know i get this all the time on facebook about coping in coverage and news and fake news and it's as if i find it really bewildering and it really damages the confidence the public has in the authorities . well you know we're a show here and everybody seems to be agree because i get to we agree with you. notice shit is my fault or was a radiologist and they. are the manhattan project so you know.

what it is a she taught me. well there's no such thing as settled science. and. it was right. and when you weigh and weigh your apply forces all these people are telling you what settles hence it is and every meeting facebook at particularly is very comparable of that and. we have things like the great barrington statement that just came out from his doctors in rome why the exact example national are of blue to lety etc and these are real serious people that and skip you know conspiracies it is serious people in their basements smoking crack never really in the real deal you later although i don't know you do we don't know we're not given the opportunity you think for ourselves but

a potential victim that's exactly what's going on here they don't want people to think for themselves and they want to look not to look to these people for guidance but the problem with that is that i have a fundamental ideological difference with most of their the way they see the world ok and i refuse to submit i have my own views i will make up my own mind and i will go to people that i think are authoritative that's our role i believe our right to do but i think if i'm always you know like when i could have a a video in the know in the end do you monetize why is it demonic times ok and then you know you have to write to them and a good number of times i think they said oh ok fine but sometimes they never do and they never give you an answer or can't or it's just like you know me and my day and rogers agent you know it's a xerox copy of something and that it's been xerox so many times it's built into the side and it's all faded you know it's like they don't care about you they don't

care what you thinking ok i mean that that the see i don't think people understand how ideologically driven these people are kim yeah i mean it's really a salmon regarding that's the pandemic the government's role. all really should be to give us information and as much information as there as and then we should be left to do what we want with that information and they should tell us look there spikes going on in your area this is where the spikes are occurring or this is what we're finding with mask or this is what were you thinking with this or that just giving us the information and that is the that's the tool that we the people would use to make up our own minds and that goes for our previous discussion about social media and the censorship we need the information we need as much information as we can get from a variety of sources with a variety of opinions and then we the people get to make up our minds based on all of that information now they say well we like it also information but that's up to

us and snake oil salesmen have been there is all this time we need to determine what we think is truth and what we think is false and to the consumer to you know has the ultimate sovereignty here and they and they forget. you know roger you know when i look at what she was really trying to change the media environment because it's really been quite dramatic and i don't i don't think you have to be a really keen follower of politics is that the media has kneejerk response to be against everything he says and does and sometimes he actually has some good ideas and he actually does some good things here but when you have just kind of a blanket thing against him if you end up being irrational you end up being against good ideas and follow ups and things like that because i don't know how the media recovers from this because they don't condition themselves to be so ideologically driven ideologically correct i mean it's going to it's hard for me to fathom how

they're going to react to it by new era if he comes that becomes president ok i think it just you know like they did with barack obama never criticized him here well if that happens i'd like to remind all of these media people and greta. why do you think donald trump got elected in 2016 ok if you're just going to fall on over the idea lot of the person that you are i have some kind of ideological affinity with that's how the media has abandoned the good up with the for the good of the people ok people made up their own mind in 2016 and that was the people's biggest mistake and they're going to be have been punished for it and i think they're going to be punished even more even if joe wins next we've got him roger well i drew that there's a bright side next the right side of it is a. big cesspool swoons and there are ways media they have the wake of the public to be suspicious and we need to meet it which is

a good thing because this truth about media as always is always been biased. and is written by humans ad and yet that unbiased you maybe you have. put it. but there's no i'm biased humans watching this program i didn't see that closely circulated area lot of us stock but either way things. really. deaths include this. so the quote is that if you saw the whole of media maybe horrible in the reviews or jurors of media are smarter than that that's just that's and we have truth to that a bit yeah you know kim. russia game never seems to die if this is this amazing organism it's like this intergalactic biarritz that it can survive under any circumstances ok and it can be employed i mean if you're it but if you're

angry with the weather it must be russians fault ok or you know if you if you miss a meal it's because the russians made you do it ok i mean what's being you know adam shipped you know i mean when he dines he. needs to go to some medical institute where they examine his grain because what happened to his brain how can every thing go back to one thing ok it's extraordinary how this this ridiculous hoax has a life of its own and it seems it's going to be quite convenient in the future oh and by the way the modest of dealing with the bind family have to do with china so i guess the russians did that true amazing go ahead well if it ain't broke don't fix that the democratic strategy so they know that this works this gets people riled up this gets people to hate trump even more and to be more suspicious of him and so let's just keep going and that's been the strategy all along and it really

is unfortunate that. you know even with this latest look at his taxes and where oh gosh he only paid $750.00 what was interesting about that was where was russia remember they wanted to see his taxes so that they could figure out his connection to russia and they never found that instead it was a different scandal that they made up but they continue to harp on this russia narrative this russia conspiracy even without continually without gaining any evidence of it except they bought some ads on facebook. ok kim. that may have been saying something for a of a few years now and you still free to use it as much as you want in russia again there are there are there are there isn't much russia and there are many russians in russia. but we have learned here ok you know roger you know how was it you know it it seems one of the things they don't get out of everything is been debunked ok but there's no reckoning no one in the media says yeah we got

it wrong and i think they're going to pay very very dearly for that ok because you know we so much airtime so much ink and so much has been wasted on this year and and it shows it unfortunately for me also my pessimism here it shows that a grand conspiracy theory can work to your advantage if you get enough people on board. well you know i always like to think of a show make a comment when somebody says it's not about that but is. and you know if this is for example so much money has be made out of shape. that it had to complain about russia or some people who look at china. but he. goes to the media too like c.n.n. if they didn't complain about russia even if you were people in washington. d.c.

and it is not to be popular left i think it's a better place to m.s.n. b.c. even more i mean it's amazing i mean rachel maddow is made an entire career out of it so she she's the media person adam schiff is a political person here and there's no downside for being wrong there see that the the power we have as individuals and as citizens is the shame these people that's the power that we have and i constantly do it and i don't do it in a cruel way but i. use their own words and their own suppositions against them ok and that's how you win these arguments with these people but we're going to full circle last 30 seconds goes the kim if we don't know what we don't know that is the greatest danger moving forward 30 seconds but it you know we absolutely need to have freedom of information that is the most important thing and when these big media companies and when our congressional leaders are pressuring the media companies to censor information they're not just censoring a person's ability to speak they're censoring my ability to hear it and that to me

is even more of horror and that they're censoring me from receiving any information or that they're forcing me to receive only certain information and that is something that we the people need to really be guarding against and saying it's not just about somebody's ability to say whatever they want it's my ability and my right to hear it so that then i can assess whether or not i want to believe it or what direction i want to go with that but all in all you know we really need to be fighting back as the people we really need to be rising up and saying we will not tolerate this perfect way to end the program you're one of the my guest in los angeles and national and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here argue cx i remember.

the maternity town the slums go in and you may never get out some sort of the most of. my teenage gang rules here. are one of you to move then none of the mind. but. maybe will. come out. minus a murder. and now it's looking for the yeah. and melanie might not be in. the mccain group police all i see.

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