that's our news wrap up for this hour thanks for tuning in a maybe. hello and welcome across town where all things are considered i'm peter well even after russia gave was defunct as a hoax this conspiracy theory lives on in fact it appears to become part and parcel of our political discourse if you oppose someone or an idea all you have to do is blame in russia no facts necessary slurs and in fact was claims now suffice.

to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest patrick lawrence in norfolk he is a foreign affairs commentator who's columns appear in consortium news and other publications and in lake jackson we have daniel mcadams he is the executive director of the ron paul institute for peace and prosperity all right gentlemen across the polls and i think that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was appreciated well it's going to patrick in norfolk i read your article the damage russia gate has done with great pleasure because you numerate very clearly in a very well written article the damage this is done to our political discourse as i said in my introduction it seems to be part and parcel of our political discourse now because if you're angry with someone or against an idea you certainly know what to invoke the russians did it even though the hoax was shown to be actually

a conspiracy to overthrow. and democratically rightfully elected president but here we are here we are. i mean. look the idea for the piece came up when i started thinking about this we've talked about russia gate in terms of the damage it's done to. american russian relations dreadful danger it lands us in so forth already. we've talked about it in terms of. it's it's use. as a hammer to attack president trump but it started to occur to me with this new election coming this thing this this thing has poisoned our society in ways that nobody's quite reckoned up with the i'm a practitioner my entire professional life but that doesn't matter the to me the

oem the most consequential. outcomes of this is the self destruction of the american press i mean it's we're living without a proper press except for independent media and i don't remember whether i mentioned it in the piece this is the moment for independent media great. use of brilliant phrase how liberals have become so illiberal in the in the media hype danio let me let me go to you i mean you and i have known each other for many many years and we've discussed of course regime change the united states has backed all around the world but who would have thought that they would have done try to do it in the united states and that's exactly what's happened because you have all these centers of power there in this disgraceful dangerous and brace with the intelligence services it's quite amazing if we can pare the baseless there's of

russia gate the allegations surrounding the biden family which there are it's there's forensic evidence to discuss ok i'm not making any claims here but i mean look how how different they approach one set of it independent are they would call an event a bit actually a mansion facts and then facts that are in front of you that you can actually read i mean there are polar opposites daniel. if i can start by saying i've been a lifetime journalist and i would have to say that africa lawrence in my opinion is the finest journalist writing today it doesn't matter if you agree with his opinion or not his writing style is brilliant it's so fresh and to read so i don't want to make this a love fest but it's just a delight to read anything patrick writes but asked a question you know and i know i've said this before but it's not the ninety's trudging around central and eastern europe watching the pre color revolution that the precursor of color revolution slovakia 98 albania 996 croatia in 97

over and over again with the british i think of in the one thing that we always said when we watched all of the players lining up we watched the u.s. government partnering with groups like the soros organizations in these countries and the liberal n.g.o.s in these countries we said if we don't expose this now if we don't write about what's happening now this kind of blueprint will come to our shores we always said it over and over i know it sounds like a self-congratulatory but we said it over and over if we don't write about this and expose it it will come to our shores a low and behold 20172016 has come to our shores and that's if i go away you know we've now got we've now got not to be missed among your among your viewers peter we've now got the cia in in contravention of this joe charter operating on domestic soil we know the cia operating. in a covert alliance with

a major political party and not to be missed with law enforcement can you a little about all this stuff any goes on and on and own i want your viewers to understand this is a country this is a country and something close to 3 fold my way of our our most basic institutions russia gate seeing as we can those 2 are very foundation and i don't know i mean. just this morning daniel will know. we've got we've now got one of the people involved in the biden. in the biden's influence peddling in china. a guy named anthony but wilensky he's right there a need anything are in it senator cetera. and the press it's what they're trying to bury a bloody mountain it's getting to be rather too high to bury right they're not coming

back from this you know and it will roll on and on and on this guy get an interview with chuck or carlson i hope your viewers can see it i stream or however we're absolutely actually it will tell a lot of the story daniel and i are talking about it's all coming back home just as daniel said. it but when it says daniel is that it will bury it we should even be talking about you know a free press because it's no longer free i mean it's all being done in broad daylight i mean you have all of these big tech companies censoring or one of the most well known along igs along the existing publications the new york post and everybody knows about it and no one really says no one protests you know who doesn't protest journalists don't protest this is what's really terrifying you know i was a little boy when i was a little boy in a train my age right now it was journalists that told the american people about

what was going on in vietnam it was journalists the talked about the corruption of the nixon administration but now it's journalists when they're my primary function now is to slam other journalists for getting out of line mainstream journalists or anything that the place of independent journalism in this country is growing more significant by the day and let's let's broaden that definition that includes programs such as your own peter wright. this is this is this is not going to work out well for the mainstream media they're they're continuing influence is perfectly well and really should i show him i'm going to daniel here again you know if it works for that turn the people that you know or you know howard they're celebrities i mean it works for them ok but it doesn't work for anyone else and it really tells us in a very dangerous way we don't need democracy because if you just tell us what to

think anyway that's what's happening right now very soon short circuiting the system of representative government and i'm going to end it and if you are one we're conspiracy minded which of course none of us are if you look at the development of journalism in the past 10 or 15 years it's pretty interesting because if you think in the quote good old days journalists were almost treated as professors the almost had tenure when they were established a newspaper you know they had the freedom the intellectual freedom to pursue stories and with the destruction of print media which i guess is inevitable because of technology advancing all of a sudden that rug pulled out a journalist and i'm not making any excuses for them but all of a sudden there patronage shifts are there's no longer a physical newspaper from the right for there's no longer a platform for them to write for and so it seems like that's sort of undermine journalism as an institution and has left a huge gap into which special interests and things can and can jump in and i and i wish i had i wish i felt more confidence about patrick's view that

independent media is the future and i think ultimately that's true for right now and i know that places like consortium news that patrick writes for and certainly for us and many many others the attempt to put the squeeze on independent media by social media which is also owned by tech news illian errors is incredible it's basically they want to make sure that tree falls in the woods nobody better damn well hear it and so well. well well said we've now got i mean that as a measure of the hay wire and that's my sleeve this morning right this country is completely off the rails as of right we're now got silicon valley cherokees walking around in blue jeans and flip flops etching the american press and this is with the new york post. and in the mainstream is

not saying anything about it. they're silent about it you know if anything they're they're cheering it home this is going to bite them on the backside with you we've got a bunch of no nothing peaks. who have no notion of the 1st amendment or anything else effectively the american public and shit but don't you think patrick and it went bothers me is that this is ideology in service of power seen i mean they need truly think they're doing the right thing because people that think differently than them are obviously morally inferior not intellectually morally ok they're of value judgement on our morality and they do it in the end in the service of an ideology and that's what makes it so scary because you know i'm always very wary of a true believer is a means to any thing. we're looking at. we're to spout this

190 years ago this is soft yes because i'm right this is the despotism of. a privileged minority. volume to your viewers can find it all right and i've argued for years i don't care for trump in many ways although i applaud a couple of those foreign policy positions. are here for years donald trump is going to come and go in a liberal liberals are here to stay and they're the more dangerous force i wonder daniel agrees with me about the bit i absolutely have to think of the money and the power that's being spent on keeping those voices like us down but i do like my last segment with a bit of a downer well let me say that you know i believe all commonly what happens is that people's attention allegiances shift as in as and i hate to bring always bring this back up a bill be any what happened the system collapsed the newspapers were lies or what

have. we saw the rise of the psalmist we saw the rise of the intellectual dissidents and actually people like you mentioned earlier on like an errant that this didn't see we're going against the tyranny that was a couple things so there is a model that we can follow as well even though tech tried to strangle us you know the the the truth ultimately you know if you stop by an army we have to have that kind of optimism gentlemen we're going to go to a short break and after that show discussion on russia gave in its everlasting effect on american political discourse state authority. the one about the way they look even if the white house.

so. i don't think it's the fault of the colostomy. top that come. oh my. moment of one of. the stars they. 6 joined me every thursday on the alec simon show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. welcome back to crossed up were all things are considered i'm peter lavelle true mind you were talking about a russia gate seems to never disappear. all

right let's go back to patrick i mean we are deeper and brought up the gentleman's name anthony but i mean ski it was on time and show and he claims with. evidence. verifiable evidence that he was a go between for the biting family's business affairs around the world and he has been called in the mainstream media a sensually a traitor to his own country a man that served in the military in a very sensitive position he is a very successful businessman that's reason why he was tapped and he. saw things going on in the biden world that he felt very uncomfortable with and when he spoke out about it the mainstream came down viciously including congressman schiff from california us calling him

a tool patrick and this is where where we have arrived is that if you disagree with the powers that be if you disagree with the status quo you're a traitor you're you're not in a treasonous way that is a very toxic place to be in public discourse go ahead yeah yeah i mean. carlson is there a hurry on the wall there are you where he comes through trying to get anyone you should particularly interesting or interested at all in matters such as that right liberal i'm sure which is. the important part about that carlson interviewers he surfaced in it in a media context that enjoys millions of viewers ok this is not something that's bumbling around. on websites that means you're not threat move there. primacy of the mainstream media he's got it his punch through here and this is going to be

a case that has been for some time. where the press and the broadcasters are trying to highlight something that is simply too large to holiday let's take that phrase from homo aren't the immensity of factually they're trying to throw a blanket over something out they don't make blanket snap big and this is why i think the mainstream media is is digging itself into a hole 'd they're not you know any out what this does is in and i want to say with the treason issue with that daniel is that you know what this does is that people don't believe the mainstream media and because they don't believe the mainstream media there are those individuals that go into the woods see great conspiracy theories i mean this is a reaction of of a closed information sphere ok they have themselves to blame for that but i want to stay with the tree something to say i think it's really important and as americans

here questioning one's patriotism is it's a pretty i or thing to go to because i mean it's the last straw that's a last card you can play and destroying someone's character go ahead and like what patrick wrote in his piece he called it you know the gang that couldn't shoot straight the people that initiated the initial rush the gate and that's the case they can't shoot straight but when they miss shooting they basically popup the whole country so they're getting something but they're not shooting the right thing and that's the case with this you know they basically pissed off someone who had all the dirt on them and because of their arrogance relief that they were the masters of the universe made with hunter that was brought on by some narcotics but whatever the case the belief that nobody can produce them as has now the hubris the pride has caused them to perhaps have a down fall because what's in it for this bubble and he's wealthy. enough is that everything he needs he's a democrat donor he's a democrat voter by its own admission so here he gets slammed in slime as putin's

tool by the idiot adam schiff who we know was saying one thing in public about russia gate but when he got under oath said something very very different well no i didn't have any. you know so so they they play with fire and it looks like he might be getting burned well you know it's really interesting because it seems to me in that package that this is him in a very weird way and with the pandemic also harm top of it and the economic catastrophe for tens of millions of people is a very interesting template then in controlling messages and controlling how people think about things and i find that very very scary because people are cowed people are terrified there's a lot of scaremongering out here and you know and of course the the the the rule of russia and the american mind you know goes back to the cold war and so it's a very easy caricature for them but it's also

a very interesting tool because as i've said many times when you cross that there are not there's not much russia or russians in russia gate itself but it is a template i'm controlling the public sphere and what people talk about and what people know and don't know ahead of. you use you use the word scary and scared or couple times pyramids. and are our moment is is is one where we're ordinary procedures institutional practices and so forth are collapsing one gets at the the degree of uncertainty with which we have americans live unprecedented these term journalists used to avoid because what some president if you can't be careful but it's truly rare. right going back a very long way in the 1000 century. but you know. who

you know the only thing we have to fear is fear itself maybe i think there's a lot out front of us jan you'll spoil your independent media but i think there's a lot for us to look forward to and you have to accept that this kind of transformation social political institutional is gradual it's not it's not what we're not in but it's just my thought yeah but it seems to me that you know i'm going to get anyone right now these people are playing for broke they're playing for keeps ok i mean once they get all of the power then they're going to do what they want to do because they couldn't get it. through the elections in that sense you know they will push things to the supreme court now they're going to have a barrier there will pack the court so this is about power and it's not about ideas ok and that's what i worry about it's about power ok danny also the issue here when

i think of you know we talk about institutional geisha and that's going on and i think it's profound right now all of that disintegration is because freedom of speech is compromised and controlled with out freedom of speech we are all of our institutions start to crumble because it's creepy a speech is the cement that keeps it all together and this is what scares me i'm scared about this ok because let me let me be no because you can't have a decent conversation anymore i mean i'd love to disagree with people i learn from it but now even disagreeing that you're beyond the pale you're look like this anthony guy i mean it seems like a pretty good guy to me and he's destroying i mean plummeted in public. well you know the 1st thing a fear fear is like oh it's like a powerful stimulant tearing. me and the reaction to the corona virus in the united states is something that i've written and talked about for

a long time and you can see it now very very clearly defined a long flat ical lines you saw the blue states where the blue said governors were the most tyrannical and treated the people the most in the most horrible manner and now you see very clearly the political lines are drawn to joe biden saying on the candidate of last down and force mass and president from saying i'm the candidate of freedom reopening so you're seeing the fear motivates people to give up their liberties and it has worked very well in the u.s. so without this fear i'm not denying a virus but i am definitely sense that the reaction to the virus has led to fear which is undercut people who would normally think for themselves you know and i think that's very important and the other point i would make your 2nd point is about tribalism and tribalism is so important it trumps truth at this point in our society if you present someone like with the bubble linsky interview with the or like with the texts from the from the laptop or even the photos and i've talked to somebody recently who is a mainstream media addict and i said hey but look what about this laptop and what

about all of this stuff and the only response could be but what about that giuliani that is a bad guy you know i don't trust him so is this sort of tribalism you know in the 3 of us a very skeptical about a lot that trump has has to offer and is and the way he's governed in the past 3 years however we i think are almost unique it seems to me at least in that we've been able to step back from tribalism in jumping into a campaign jumping on a theme and that is what's rare in the united states. you know it presented one of the in daniel brings up such a good point you know this is almost an interesting repeat of the protest the e-mails and the d.n.c. e-mails that everybody was talking about how they got to meet the leagues but nobody in the mainstream want to talk about what's in the e-mail. i mean i don't care about the laptop i couldn't download something with. but i can read text messages and i can read documents to see if they did this based treatment yeah ok

they think they know all they're worried more about. custody of ownership than they are about possible wrongdoing in il and alex he by a very prominent or someone is very close to a very prominent politician who may be president of the united states in january i mean they you know that one of the things that really it really bothers me is that i sense when you mention tocqueville i see a return to serfdom because and this is when it's in because we have this professional manager ariel klaus that has no use for the plaids or working people and this resent this miss b. procession shows that they're getting richer and more powerful and the poor are getting more and they don't care that's why there wasn't a stimulus and i'm blaming both parties and the president on that last 20 seconds go to you have. you know are just are are you reminded me of something sartre said late in his life the uniter if you don't understand the world in terms of class

warfare you don't understand the world the democratic party had abandoned the 'd american war in may and a long long time ago or were were were a universal way from the from the thirty's and f.d.r. right right in this invoking f.d.r. what nonsense. we. will have to wait and see what the significance of this email thing with the hunters messages and so forth right is that anything is inconvenient drop the russians seem in there and it will be all right i worry that. i worry that this is there is no end to this conclude with one little remark way truck with the way the democrats use rough. sure russia russia to hammer on trying to the last 3 years 'd i think this i'm sure

business ukraine china and so on that the republicans if they have any brains will use it to hammer by monday when the at this point it's going to be progress that is that will hammer biden with this debate and get what they want arkady gentlemen that's all the time we have here i want to thank my guest now for and like jackson and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are you see you next time remember us with. it. is sort of amazing country with so many friends in russia and i'm very excited to be here. i love that idea i think i can do that. every night i make

a lot of money with them but they make millions and hundreds of me. and. he has a nice well there's a nice job a great wall and nobody builds a lot better than me believe and i'll build a very inexpensive like a great great wall. 'd and just in case you're worried about who's going to pay for it mexico will pay for . it we'll see what happens who knows i always say who knows what will seattle feel will be success. in the 1920 s. and thirty's several 100 african-americans moved to the soviet union and many of their descendants still live in russia. or going at the coast because they know no

rush for us though i put a stop yes it got chose for ways to contain some us at the dock national scale back home but i can merican suffered from racism and a complete lack of prospects. now as there is i cannot pass month that will not be a losing show one by elsa store on her by doing. so they decided to leave everything behind and start a new life in a country about which they knew almost nothing at all some of the american reared who were to sylvia during the night. found great crowds. to moulay a good few. you know belong to both of you and now almost a 100 years later history is repeating itself my great grandfather george time went to russia. probably the worst time to go anywhere why not me. what am i come here.

the french interior minister told the country to brace for more attacks after a night man a. nice living 3 dead and several. fronts as it bore we were told with an enemy from within and from without us we are not at war with any religion we are war with islam ist ideology. protest group in muslim countries over a manual mccraw in defense of the right to parody from legend and his previous remarks on islam. insulting the messenger of god prophet muhammad under the pretext of democracy is not considered democracy we demand the matter drop.