but only a few and one of these was was sean connery though in times to come will get the opportunity to do a proper tribute to the show on but in the meantime for lady michelin and the family of condolences for the rest of us rode the world alight as dead and no universe but it will shine on and our memories and hopes for the future goodbye shot this week in a screeching u. turn and in an apparently chaotic manner the johnson government and a new month long national lockdown in england starting today but this is a lockdown with a difference schools universities and key workplaces remain open hospitality house parties and holidays are for bed. elsewhere across these islands things are

different wales is already a week into a much stricter to be cloaked and while northern ireland is half way through months long restrictionists scotland this week saw the introduction of a 5 regionally based system today we asked to public health experts whether these measures contain the virus across the u.k. while the world awaits a vaccine professor harvey burns a former chief medical officer of scotland is a new president of the british medical association he is in a unique position to assess and assesses whether the virus can be brought back under control through these tight or public health restrictions dr baird and coming out of extra medical school has over 20 years experience in communicable disease control and infectious disease controlling this he worked as a consultant and communicable disease control for local authorities aren't public health and the agency which is though being bullied inspired you kick up ministers for the failure of taste in trees alex will be in conversation with our 2 guests later but 1st your messages and e-mails on last week's show last week show on black

history martin's excited great interest and many responses we hear 1st time in patterson who says all history matters but i wouldn't pull down any statues i didn't like in marshall says the problem isn't history the problem is to the history is written by or presented on t.v. and all the sudden it's official it even says we never got taught scottish history when i was that skill donald says that is another amazing black lady me to see a cool jamaican scot that massively helped medicine to better hygiene getting the crimean war and every bit the equal to florence nightingale richard lindsey says excellent show joined by and always the voice of reason when talking about racism really put a lot of people in their place when liam neeson spoke of his experience i had my bind see a lot physical both on and off the field and finally nelson says jock thompson i mean that will forever of mind us that we are all of us and of whatever origins of

equal value common in the culture of scottish people now over to alex with professor heidi burns and dr by. so how did bob insert we now have a renewed lot of those sorts coming in england with a soft and political in wales and scotland has a a 5 tiered approach weiser so difficult to get there the key messages and public health across and get the pandemic under control i'm a bit see something that i would often say but i've got less sympathy for the politicians. and the damage that's done by a knock down is significant and that governments are going to are having to find a rebalancing and you know i think we own scotland northern ireland and so and have all adopted slightly different approaches i think scotland began harsh on lockdown

if you like it has that had the highest rates of transmission some time ago and we're no beginning to see now working and i think anyone has waited a bit and i think that had to stricter outcome so it's about trying to do the best you can and the circumstances you've caught but i just think that england of probably we had a bit too long to be honest what's happening in the north of england is really very significant. don't have one can you have said that intends a real epidemic control you have to minister that and the level that local level if what you mean by that the thing with a particular well what we need is local experts and we do have them so looking at storage is how all the consultants in public health there and then we also have the local public health england equivalent in the other nations experts in communicable

disease control these are the keep players they are the linchpin the commanders in chief and they should be leading their outbreaks locally because they have the network. and the network is with the hospitals the market casting the environmental health officers and they know if there is a rising tide if there is quiet if there is calm or if there are concerns and they can respond very dynamically on a day to day hour by hour basis and therefore they should be meeting every day and you know you have it as a command and control center for under locally rather than from far away reach a london or elsewhere. minus a meal so much difficulty and getting tested and trace operating across these islands i mean we've had this week that slovakia has tested hof the complete in 2 days this is november of the vita started spreading alyea media why isn't that sort

of thing possible in the u.k. you're absolutely right it's very frustrating you know if you equate to straight about it because i started talking about this way back in march and we're told that availability of the chain is limited we're told to the process that said vote of contesting in the end and then i see the stuff and then reporting and so on is difficult. not convinced that the management of the whole process has been effective and a lot of that management has been outsourced i agree absolutely the local public house is the way to go here right from the beginning and my own university we were offering opportunities for tests in the store but we were told no no the government wanted to do. particular way and i just don't think it's been reached i really don't see how i spoke just last week about proving tasting and up

here and i was told that the kind of test that i was suggesting where be a little slow and there's no reason why they shouldn't because other countries as you say are doing so. it's very interesting and it's the way out of this case to magic people i know who always symptomatic is carrying and potentially spreading the virus and recently that's the way to control this and get it from you know day quickly but of. the testing local level i mean what's wrong with the these big white house testing centers that the the government of a stylish them and violently capable of of doing the the job on a. scale that's necessary to meet this crisis well it's also scattergun approach the scattergun approach is we have said all floodgates open go and get a test well that's not the way to run a outbreak control give you an example of when we dealt with the swine flu pandemic

we met with a lot of our tree staff every day and we couldn't work out where the pinch points were and how we would run be operations whereas when you've got if far away at lighthouse labs it is doing it at scale but it is not responsive locally it can never be responsive locally and and then we introduced what you would call it failures of communication the energy of the labs and the touch of a button would have alerted the patient the g.p. the hospital and any other place it needed to inform about the test result of here we've had to set up and create new networks with new permissions to enable all this communications to happen so a number of things have gone wrong if only we had stayed with what we know what we know works best. so how to balance scotland and england for that matter we have originated public health control so often factions diseases so why if i can it be

that having that source of knowledge over the years we found this particular virus so difficult to get a get a hold off i think in part it's due to the fact that this virus is very very and infectious and spreading many whitely mean quitting when we manage to suppress the number of cases. in march i'm sure many pro and then we got sporadic outbreaks of local public health departments where anybody effective. and then we lifted to restraint she was wheeled to not hospitality and so on and it began to spread like wildfire and local public health departments became quite overwhelmed you know a lot of the guys i speak to are literally being run ragged by what's happening so we need more extensive controls but critically we need people to and she used

to those groups it's so frustrating to hear people say oh we didn't care you know this is terrible these rules we're just going to go oh we're going to have parties we're going to have christmas together and civil war in iraq if you meet with people and you do it you do it distance and you don't wear masks and storm you increase significantly in the spread of the virus and it's it is basically counts but me attention classes are remotely in the on line at the present moment. where your students presumably are in the while this is a tragic and serious a condition but presumably your students must of views this as a as a tremendous example of of a living real life example of what it really means to be an. in a pandemic situation are you talking to about the the cases you should go on at the present moment yes i am so i take liberty with deviating from my brief of

what subject i was covering to say i will cover that subject but let's cover this right now whilst the iron is hot and we've started doing even tutorials late at night it's kind of clock we meet we discuss and we move forward and it's really good for the students who are joining us so they are learning in real time and they will grow up to be experts they are also be willed it and concerned and not sure about why we've had so many i'm bill and messages so when i tell them that in an outbreak you need a commander in chief and the commander in chief does the following and this is how you do it you get all the people around the table would discuss the strategy and then we do it and then my students say how come england or united kingdom isn't doing it in that manner and i say well when politics and health interfere it

becomes difficult so one of us would think that there are the cases of a lot of talk about the students going back home for christmas those students have gone on to campus would that be an example of where you should have a test of all of these people to make sure you're not releasing back into the homes around the country do the right in the world if people who are asymptomatic but infected yeah i think and have basic. needs it to make a case to anything to is exchangeable to stop strange and continuing that winter and so on i mean it is not that difficult when it is things that we proposed and the order was casting we slaughter from hopes of precedents it was there is evidence that the want of the wood from any. building in storage if it's anywhere in that building is in fear. it was created by research. so why don't you know there's $400.00 students in a hall of residence just to waste water if you get close and you choose you do you

have to go into. the place. that was too difficult. join us after the break we will look at how the experience thus far can translate into perhaps better practice over the coming months to get this virus under control and we'll customize into lustily stock which countries have been more successful in tackling coronavirus join us a. little while away all of you are now with the white house. had quite. well. if the phone.

call up top that up. oh man. one of the. very. 6 6 welcome back out of continues this interview with dr pipe and cognac my professor heidi burns and asked the question will this really all be over by christmas dr pantani or from x. to university which is to the public a really understanding that the public health messages i mean there's been a lot of delivery of them but of the public really taking them to heart thus far. no and it is very disappointing we've had so many mixed messages and i feel now the public also have got messages fatigue and they are consciously or subconsciously switching off we need to have our act together and get simple clear

understandable messages not too many layers not too many tears just get the simple straightforward public health messages out there and repeat them reinforce that. holly bonds is generally said and i think accepted that communication at least of policy has been better in scotland the elsewhere certainly and then with perhaps communication be improved follow up to try and drive these messages whole i think so and i think part of the problem in england has been its change tracks so often you know we're not going to have lockdown or you know we better have a lot of this kind of saying so people become a bit confused and frustrated is scottish parliament is closer to the people the people of scotland have better access to their politicians and that's faith how awful people see their politicians the see the clinical director they see the chief medical officer and so on very regularly explaining things and our

national political director jason leach tree example you know he appears on sports programs that we can dog food in the store and taking people's questions this kind of thing still there is more excess ability in scotland it's difficult policy but as i stated beginning ministers are trying very hard to keep the economy growing as best as possible while suppressing the virus and i have to say that i think i'm probably right in trying to achieve our concern with are doing it class kind of on supply of so much be outsourced to private companies in terms of testing those many stories of retired health professionals volunteering the savva sister to help with their some even getting an answer it while the private company is given will shed loads of money to to do things perhaps not very well i think it's outrageous i

really do i think that we have an experiment that we have and you know if you save retired people we have volunteers who were. if you do test and trace insurance and yet it's going to these private organizations and i think we need to know how much is being spent on that sustain the poor has been spent on this in england and wales northern ireland scotland drought it's just fumes light and our lack of overall management to the to this very complex process it could be done more efficiently and more effectively i think is often station and they will adopt a county of that. privatisation of pest and faces happening while many local authorities as was seen from recent weeks feel themselves dreadfully under resourced and terms of the the local public health. it's

a disaster and it's outrageous and so i agree with what senator kerry burns just said because why why do you want to set up a private testing laboratory and a private contractor racing service which will never ever work as efficiently as if you had invested in your local n.h.s. services and systems in both the local authority in the n.h.s. and in public health england if we look at least staggering amount of money spent 12000000000 pounds that is the equivalent of the and tired budget of all the g.p.s. and public health combined now if we had used that money to instead set up systems contact tracing systems in local authorities in local public health england areas we would have a asset to the nation and a set that can be used 18 months 24 months from today because when we have sporadic

outbreaks we will need local of our tree capacity and local outbreak tracing services we won't have the centralized systems in existence then so we've lost an asset to the nation it is a big mistake to have made a dot dot com if you cast your eye worldwide for a 2nd or 2 which of the countries the you feel have had the best record of vast far in getting a grip of this pandemic south korea without a doubt and if you look at the south korean interventions it was early that's the key point early hard fast and strict so there when 1000 early with their control measures now when team hard meaning no half measures and ever strict about enforcement and them and making sure you wore your mask you took infection control seriously and now look they sorted out their health and as a result their economy is also sorted out so i i mirrored what harry burns was

saying. which is you sort out the howth and you will sort out the economy in tandem so to tell me as a healthy person they kaname is being trashed i disagree the economy is being trashed because you failed to sort out simple public health measures to make both economy and how to run condom to ghana and so honeybunch your. favorite example from round the world to presently that we could take real lessons from rome and present and have places like south korea and survive and japan and sort of have done very well but interesting places for me are places links to a new zealand where a lot of towns have been very successful interesting me in new zealand it's clear that people have been very trustful of their government so this you know in suppressing the virus through lockdowns and these kind of things is one thing

but the other thing is having public confidence in the process and places like new zealand definitely should not how high a medical doctor 5 carlia without this renewed locked out and then with we've got the 5 tier system of scotland alyea but in wales the pursuit of what the costs suck at but i. do think that mr clifford and wales are going to have success of 1st minister and getting a grip on the virus for that suck up there are going to have to continue that over the longer period to get the virus under control i think a longer period is also required because wales is not an island within a 9 and and therefore whatever happens in england will translate into wales as well and therefore i personally would like a unified public health approach across all the nations it is unfortunate that we have a swan worsham in scotland northern ireland. wales and then in england. because wales

is a very close neighbor of england and the population is in england there will be movements and when there are a movement whatever happens in england will also happen in wales therefore we need to synchronize the control measures in both the countries at the same time otherwise you are hurting one economy whilst the other economy creates all the cases which will then come and in fact your people that you were trying to prevent from getting infected or bombs as a call for a unified policy across england wales the scotland would would that work well and you're thinking at the moment but yet system in scotland and i know that some entity beyond would just suggest that he if he hears like lawyers for the central down route out of stricter rules doubt will control more effectively what's happening in new jersey as the chief one in 2 years will continue to see

problems and they will gradually grow up to the point where you're they will need stricter rules insurance so that is an argument if that if that actually is what happens that is an argument for consistency across the u.k. but what happens if the consistency is the wrong policy as perhaps a given the number of changes will seem from prime minister johnston that way it will be the case. couldn't consisted. of is what i'm suggesting we need we need to be quite strict about it yes so how to bombs have i can ask you to pick the hot on this president the but his medical association for a 2nd vs the global matters that your members are thinking about what are they so a mess than the a me to say of the crisis that they can't look forward to see what's to come i am working with royal colleges since ornge to begin to think i'm proud. how do we

prevent this happening again mark how he is much creature the lord of misrule shit so is he who makes skill you go and that it's just another argument for dealing with it it probably to no society is a sustainable development and who cry to me that works to provide well be for everyone and society is the long term can focus and we mustn't miss the opportunity to meet that argument about what the politicians seem to be focusing a lot of christmas us on the style of us a great family a patient a facility a virus doesn't recognize. we're all just festivals of n l a time of the doesn't know of course not and i'm concerned that we are already giving out mixed messages christmas 2020 can not be the same as all our christmases my advice is look advice people now that you need to have fewer human contacts for

christmas going to 20 in western yourself so that you are well able and in good spirits in 2021 that's the way to go i absolutely agree to get this virus to close contact with other human beings and they're far from the 1st time ever we are not going to have a family christmas party for sure we will have her zuko with the family and that will be what we do it's a safe isolated state with your mask and hand washing and so on and you will be safe to enjoy next year so hot yvonne's thought about it by kolya thank you so much for joining me on the alex aman chill thank you thank you. many countries have struggled with handling corbet and most western european countries asleep walked into a 2nd wave of the deadly virus what is most disappointing is that many of these

countries actually pioneered public health control in the days when infectious diseases were most often by that cure or effective treatment so why has it proven so difficult to implement disease control or an effective test interest system and the why is it so difficult to deliver a clear public health messages with all the advantages of martin communications and why has it not been possible to copy the success of the far east countries who hold their public health systems in response to sars vietnam china singapore and japan or australia or new zealand or the nordic countries in europe or canada and north a medical event as we'll and you decry and south america to a greater or lesser extent these countries have to quit so why not across the british isles across so you can island that i don't know less than 5 minute but separate policies of disease control until we and indeed and if weeks' time would

be looking at the success or otherwise of the measures in island north on face which are halfway through the implementation this at least well how they'd find it of giving an insight into what works and even more importantly what to see a lot on these lessons much depends but for now from alex myself and all that the shoe stacy i hope to see you again next to our thank god. people say. worthless but you see how difficult it is to blast

the money got guilty have to go to college coming and do it. if you can save someone if you buy the small and direct means save on the painting that you can then save your thousands of other lives well my response is that the way we should think about that is just is that just as there's a child in a store experiment full of you in this burning building you can say well also just thousands of children around the world millions of children and the world you could potentially state it weight it's light weight in the situation of being facing a burning building just all the time. sputnik 5 has the world. just like its namesake the original.

the 1st craft of all to leave. orbit the world. many questions remain unanswered as new vaccine the authorities are confident enough to go forward with mass production. very. pleased with. myself able. to receive. interest really mean the requests. for to see. this is happening. or go on the reaction has been exactly the same. the world reaction is made of green cheese.

but. it's. the strength of the 2020 u.s. presidential elections. which i. mean on the white house. they get to come away from the democrats on the republicans we discuss the lack of real alternative choices to the libertarians and the greens. i don't know if libertarians or other 3rd parties or it will ever consistently get high enough to win a national election we have.