for sure that was sasha committee u.k. mitterrand special projects coordinator up people for the ethical treatment of animals peta. wants national entreating broca thank you both so much for your time . and that's all for the moment i'll be back at the top we've got plenty more for you so do check. your. own welcome jewels apart while all eyes are still on counting and recounting

develops in the 2020 u.s. presidential elections have already tabulated what's been known all along that the united states it is one of the most politically polarized countries on the planet with little agrement on its history that path forward and above all what it means to be an american today how is this schism going to influence the next 4 years for america regardless of who becomes its next president well to discuss that i'm now joined by david grady professor of political science letisha values that staffer at the university and senior fellow at the hoover institution professor radians great to talk to you thank you very much for taking time to talk to us your. now i know you've been predicting and perhaps personally a wishing for a joe biden when perhaps it's a bit too early still to i'm courting the champagne but have you at least put the bottle into the fridge. you know i think it looks pretty good for surviving.

is the as many hats to 270 electoral votes and the president really only has one yes winner they got slapped and that seems a bit unlikely given that he's behind in arizona and nevada and the votes left in no bother to be counted are currently from. our status in reno which are big democratic areas and then survey has gotten quite close and most of the votes out in pennsylvania are senate absentee which are generally down about 7520 in better and by georgia's not down to 16000 votes with many votes in fulton county and the atlanta area to be counted so it looks pretty good for the democrats and their republican cemented upset the trump campaign is calling for some recounts and i know many that democrats are whined quite offended by. these

calls goodson they insist that count that black things and hope that all the disagreements they within billygoat feel isn't that a safer way to proceed the rather than i mean the e.u. know there are some worrisome predictions going into this elections with you know the stores boarding up their windows and you know weapon sales going through there oh so it isn't that it's you go the recount way rather than anything else yeah the well there's the so yes the lesson was amazingly. enough predictions of violence that we did not happen there's 2 kinds of recounts that your listeners should know 1st concrete efforts to recount when it's mandated by law so it's a wisconsin version bill. the election biden wins by less than one percent then there's an automatic recount in the state based or if. there is no

triggering for an automatic recount you get in or trust the recount but if you request a recount and you lose then you pay for the recount which is no use of dollars you know they have enough money to do that but in general in the last i think the study on familiar of the last 10 or 12 recounts. the total low change was average $380.00 so vote recounts never really changed. yet but on the other hand this is also a pretty unusual election. especially considering a big a number of mail in ballots i mean over a 100000000 people voted early isn't that actually i mean putting trump aside isn't that actually a pretty healthy prudent thing when you have such a major procedural change just to go back and revisit what have or not has and i'm not disagreeing with you that certainly it's better to recount them than to go out

in the streets and protest i was just pointing out there's 2 kinds and generally or you can go back and do them there overwhelming evidence is they don't really change anything. because they're out by machines and ballots are their own and so it's very hard and electoral process they have both republicans and democrats there when they feed them in an hour or so you switch which is a good thing meaning when you do recount it doesn't change things very often going to shoot. now i come from a country of a low level of social trust and it's a pretty rich history of electoral manipulation saw forgive me in my skepticism but i wouldn't while want to be mayor both you take on such proportions here in russia but given that the united states considers itself a translator of democratic practices for the rest of the well what do you actually like other countries to follow suit and to use the mail in both inside

huge numbers i mean the main concerns that i have about privacy and integrity of the vote not my job to. how anybody else votes i think the male vote system idea in the united states where turnout is 5565 percent the idea was if you said. not mail balance and made it easier on people that you and increased turnout that turned out not to be sometimes true but it does what you want you do as in california washington and oregon send everybody your mailbox you can go back on it because it makes voting so much easier now we get it there was a study by a colleague of mine at stanford and haul it looked at 2 elections in the state of washington which is all mail in and because a new sandy technologies you can do this 40000000 ballots mailed them

they found maybe 14 that could have been dead people and they couldn't even be sure about those because of same names etc but only 40 so i think. they probably mailed in voting in the united states does not really dramatically affect anything i do think in the long run that as computer technology and face recognition thumbprint we will go to more electronic forms of. work we're not there yet because they're too easy to act well i don't hear i disagree with that but this is what i get from american media that the mail in vote seems to have favorite joe biden for the time being at least who has already amassed 17 saturday go into that because democrats by far feared coronavirus and were much more likely to wear face masks etc so if there is a beginning going on and you got a male ballot and you don't want to go outside and be around other people you mail

it into the republican strategy why those 2 in fact had their people go to the polls on election day then at the end of the day i should choose a election over 30 then the vote would look is over republican because you can count that vote for hastert and the way mail votes are counted in the united states differs dramatically say florida could start. processing in crimea on october 14th north carolina can start processing them earlier pennsylvania because they are even starting process until election day so it was part of the republican strategy to how to lead election night as it turns out to him they do not have a lead so that didn't work and now you're getting a little drift which has been true over the past 4 elections i.e. as the mail ballots come in they're more democrat because more democrats vote from home well joe biden is clearly leading so far but i think we can also see that

trump's base has increased he has a stronger showing that he had that back in 2016 and why the that gets you 2nd athlete minorities hispanics i heard that. the black well it is higher for him than it wasn't just 1016 even the jewish vote is higher how do you explain that why is 1st of all it's too early too early to know because when people are going on are going to exit polls that were brought in that are out on the internet now in either of those polls better after because as you might expect coming out of her own virus as you walk out of the voting booth you might not want to stop and ask somebody for questions well he'll wait for a couple of hours in line it's just to get your you know anything that you find and answering a few questions i've got exit polls. for example in 2000 when florida

was declared on the basis of the exit polls 1st or noise denver go or and what happened was they there are 2 way too many women stop to talk and too many men want by so don't give incomplete can just take whoever it is you have to have a sample and if you take too many of women are joining and so in terms of the air. exit polls are coronavirus we have no previous record on there and so those exit polls are under question. under there under question like the polls work well in any case and i think we will have to wait and see but i am very interested in the issue of race here because going into this election the democrats i guess that main charge against donald trump was that either he is racist or he's lying abetting racist even though the democrats themselves acting in their electoral

politics will make any secret of. claiming certain athlete groups or certain racial groups as their own in fact that racial or ethnic sensibilities have been instrumental ised and exploited and american politics for quite some time by both parties what does racism even mean in what in day amharic especially when it comes to politics well clear i mean you said well 1st of all you said trump is based there quite a bit better i mean there are more votes turned out but there's going to going to be crowded embers are you going to 16 and 20 tony jump one and ronnie 60 who looks very much like he's not going to win so so whatever the turnout was he may have got more turnout but he is losing this time so 2820 is a replay of 2016 is unfolding this i'm still best seen effect better 1000000 people voted for him so that conference i'm going through but it latches are about

winning or losing and so he not it's name from iran and women that's a great thing but if i want to lose and you want to call out a victory right but from a politician's perspective you run and you lose i do trust people are are happier now than they were 26 i'm not did i know his vote is there but if he lost this time that's different and the same thing is in regard to race i don't think we know yet but last. overwhelmingly voted for democrats it may have been 2 or 3 points higher among black males for strong and it had been young and 2016 but we don't know for sure because there's lots that we haven't counted all about and the 2nd thing in regard to the hispanic vote it does learn why they like to you know hispanic vote are issues it does look like is more pro trump good jewish vote may may have i don't know where you're getting those numbers that's an exit poll and the number of jewish voters is as 34 percent the united states it's hard to

pull down polls yours are so accurately unless you're overseas i think there are some indications and i guess we have i'll have to kind friend then later that. some known wides don't consider donald trump a racist in fact you know i once used to be a student in the united states i started in kansas which overwhelmingly voted for trump i think with a 15 percent margin and you know i talked to a lot of my friends there are a lot of dissent hardworking people who had to hide that political preferences specifically because of that fears of being outed as racist as ands in a folks and i know for a fact that they are not you know because i'm a foreigner myself and i had the interactions but do you think that's going to change in the next 4 years do your job we are taught to use a state for years your job the republicans republicans or jesus

are fruit not democrats where there's about 30 democrats and i don't doubt our belief well i think there are many many studies supporting my claim that many people who voted for some or other reason for don't trump celt. secretive about that in fact i mean there is a great effort on the part of polling agencies to gab those so-called shy voters out specifically because they are stigmatized. the problem for a lot of we asked you know there's stated cases it goes both ways that you go we asked the following procedure we said we are your neighbors be surprised you are going to vote. and we did find some john 11 percent. said their neighbors would be scrubs but we found. voters their neighbors would be surprised and guess what it was related to you lived in a rural area and you are abiding by water your neighbor would be surprised if you

live in the urban area you are trying your neighbors should be. so i've done it cuts both ways well professor brady we have to take a short break right now but maybe i'll be back in just a few moments they chant. l look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. must obey the orders given by human beings except when such orders to conflict with the 1st law show your identification we should be very careful about artificial intelligence and the point of use the is to create trust in fear. played a very thin with artificial intelligence will some of the demons. must

protect its own existence as. welcome back to worlds apart david brady professor of political science or literature valley said stanford university adds senior fellow at the hobart institution professor brady just before the break ever asking. questions about racism and how it's been instrumental lies and politics and then the reason why i focus on that so much is because i think that it's become a convenient way for some american politicians especially over a globalist leaning to avoid an important conversation about the economy and be the

purpose of the state because in most countries around the world putting your country 1st is not a controversial proposition that's in fact considered to be didn't main purpose of the government do you think trump would have ever reason to such prominence if a prawn national anti globalist sentiments were given fair in presentation in american politics during the previous election cycles that's it's way beyond my pay grade i don't there's no evidence other than anecdotal evidence that you might cite here and there i know of no studies. that went either corroborate that or disprove it if trump leaves the white house come 2821 do you think he strand of politics not in style but in substance representing the concerns ofa row rural

or suburban voters do you think that kind of politics that's trend of politics will have to remain a do or would you think will represent it ok now or not it's a great question so. i think it's probably the most important question to ask about the election. there is a problem with race the united states obviously but is true knows there are 7 voters in the midwest and other places. who have due to trade international trade and globalization have lost their jobs and they have moved from the democratic party because they feel the democratic party abandoned many of them voted for obama trice because he said he was going to change things and they didn't change they moved to and so that's that's like my hometown my own counsel one of those kankakee illinois a town that you know how a lot of industrial work and father good job in a factory and support a stanley and those jobs are gone so that is

a problem and i agree with you sorry if i misunderstood your question i agree with you that donald trump donald trump much of downtime support comes from that white males where high school or less education so if he'd leave the white house down what happens to the republican party which has now changed well i think that republicans will try. they will some republicans tom cotton of arkansas be some people try to come up and take translates i think that will be exceedingly difficult because trump is sui generous way and he struck me very it's very hard to duplicate him so there's going to be that element in american politics floating around there and if the democrats get in and push too hard to politics of the left and neglect those people the ones you were just talking about and don't deal with

them then that's a very bad thing you have the democrats can't talk about those people as clinton did the corals or as barack obama now why they believe in guns and god they can't be treated that way otherwise they're a session of the vote is going to be very upset unhappy and floating around election election so i think what happens to them is absolutely crucial and there will be a fight among republicans 1st place in the melee or democrats to see who can pick them up and. drop trump but was uniquely able to do that he did 8 years ago described as unique but i want a few days that big of a genius because you know as i was preparing for this conversation i came across every cent gallup hall which essentially suggested that while the majority of respondents find joe biden more appealing on that personal level they're far more

in tune with all when it comes to economic policy and i have an impression that the democrats all the way through are sort of puzzling why people of voting for trump given his moral transgressions they put so much emphasis on his moral. character rather than understanding that you know they damn merican electorate is behaving as if all. place has been behaving that is voting on the economy and that's actually the clinton's message it's all about the economists if it hasn't done a lot trying to crack that i think i think you're right that analysis when we looked at the when we ran sophisticated algorithms and evidence on this data we found that it was 3 out of the coronavirus did hurt from obviously but over time people's concerns grew about the economy and the

economy and trump was seen as better for the economy than biden was and that it did in fact make the election closer and not the blue wave that was predicted and i think in large part it was it was because of the economy and by the way the same gallup poll found that despite call it 19 and all the losses associated with it in the jury day of respondents believe that they are now so better off than 4 years ago this is pretty amazing given that you know the poll that was taken after the and the last downs you know he retires i was astounded by the good economist hugo coal which i have a deal where. we found the same thing it was i found a surge that there was 40150 percent said they're better off now than they were 4 years ago so same same basic point. i haven't had time to go back and look at that

it was the case that it was more republicans that said that but i haven't i haven't been able to go back and look but my guess is if i express hard on that. you know it will be those former democrats or trump republicans in midwestern states would be my guess and that's something we're going to look at. in the sun as. much in the last 2 days were several letters so i think you're probably are you're right on that the economy of the and the economy is an issue came up in drone virus struck down and that's also why the election so much closer now joe biden positioned himself as the back to normality kind of candidate but when you look at his social and economic problems program he's quite bold if not to say radical but at least by the american standards not by the standards of let's say euro but what he proposes is pretty. pretty golf on many americans and i mean closing oil and gas

industry by $1035.00 you're a college education for low income kids extending it for the full care act do you think you can deliver on all those points if you're really back to the same all kind of candidate or is he actually proposing something that america has never yet seen before. no other good question i think he can deliver on that you know the reason he can't one of the reasons he is so appealing one night he had a democratic senate and the market was quite worried because the bush policies too far left and and my view is if they push those things too far out of our tree to asian medicare for all. then what happened is 2022 would have been like 2010 where obama lost 67 seats in the house all or 2022 would have been worse for the democrats but with a republican senate is not going to be able to do those things so i think that.

maybe they can get some stuff going on the infrastructure middle have to be a deal there will be some sort of a stimulus package but it will be lower than what it i don't think that even if the democrats sent out a majority in the senate that they would have come in and anybody who thinks that because it's by and islam the election we are problems are over that that's simply not true the problems were there before 'd president trump they're not going away you have problems for the economy in a one room you're going to have huge debt to pay for the things you're going to do there are we still have a problem in the united states with racism we have too many young african-american and hispanic men in jail for drug possessions etc so those problems are there or trump and simply electing a democrat is not does not solve them. now. i heard you say in one of your lectures

that the current level. within the united states has structural reasons and despite all the calls for unity it's extremely difficult to bring people together because you know to bring them together they have to at least agree on one thing and it's amazing for me to observe from russia now that the united them erica is no longer agree on that past that america is a land of opportunity is that treats everybody fairly i mean president obama was delivering all those speeches in 2013 about how everybody has an equal shot i think nowadays he won't be able to be to read his own speeches and in fact the only person who can subscribe to that vision of america is trump and his supporters that's what i find extremely ironic but given that there is no agreement on the past on the path forward and a bible on what america stands for how do you think this divide would be overcome and can it ever be overcome how do you envision the next or our 8 years going

forward. so i think that's again you make a very good point so the i say said one point did have did at some yesterday. some agreement on just area that ok we have problems with african-americans we've made progress and broader areas this idea of continual progress which is in contrast to france right which has street different interpretations of the french revolution and that's a fact and that about whether the french political system i i think there is some reason to believe that the united states as now you know position where we have 2 or 3 different understandings one as elite universities and then there's the interpretation conservatives who believe they hold you know that things are but i think probably the real truth is somewhere in between but over the next 48 years.

the way the american economy has always struck people in right now. is that they bring them and they make money so if you look at people who came from our land or italy they've been absorbed or they've been not absorbed into the culture there are cultures are part of it now you can get all sorts of the value or so on chinese but question as it has to be economically successful and in the globalized we're allowed the united states still has a very successful economy. is that economy going to be successful over the next 20 years in the same way that it has that's a crucial question and it's going to have to be done at the economy go in you're going to have a hard time because you've got global warming and you've got globalization now where 85 percent of the world is in competition and those questions are i think you rightly pointed out upper graps i don't think anybody has. sure if the economy

doesn't do well. then you know while the next president has few challenges that come for him i'm not sure that that's such and i am default position after all at this point of time going to american history anyway professor brady it's been great pleasure talking to you thank you very much for your time and for your candor thank you good questions and thank you for watching us hope to see her again next week on the walls of our. bar.

join me every thursday on the alex i'm unsure when i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics this list i'm showbusiness i'll see you then. this is the time to hear on america. after 4 anxious days of wait joe biden claims victory to become the 42nd us president todd's projections in the boat take him over the world press. twice said tons and i had that i was a defiant donald trump brown's election fraud you about the republican counterparts also going to pull through so for a late surge in place to buy that's the fight and. by tribes which action of the results his supporters rally all across america to my .