bombs still in danger lives in this small agricultural country. we don't think it's happening even today, kids in laos, fall victim to bombs dropped decades ago. is the us making amends for the tragedy and help to the people need in that little land on same joe biden, to be president elect come one group. that's not always make that determination. we aren't there yet. was the election free and fair? and what is the possibility of the country played the election? gather your least one with all sides instead of talking about her because you're really into it,

you leave that up. i just sat here watching 5 minutes. you're not going home tonight. i can guarantee they won't come back to wrongful conviction with you some today we're going to be doing a deep dive into an issue. you know, is fascinating exhibits to our founding, which is the phenomenon of false confessions. and my guest today is going to be jane fisher. are you also currently working on more cases involving false confessions and each is fascinating its own way. so jane, while some confession and jane is an attorney who is an expert on false confessions . and so jane, how did you get into this work? i was a public defender in manhattan here in new york city for about 3 years. and we saw

a lot of police misconduct. you know, we were doing arraignments up until 1 am in the morning and you see people beat up or, you know, people whose cases get dismissed, who get no compensation. so my husband and i left the legal aid society with the hopes of doing civil rights work. my name is old castle. i'm a distinguished professor of psychology at john jay college of criminal justice. once a false confession is taken, the case was closed and nobody really can tell the difference between a good confession and one that is a problem with all of this is that your tactics that can be used to get innocent people and i don't just mean vulnerable innocent people, i mean people who are sitting around in this room to confess to crimes. they didn't commit.

anytime you do an exoneration case where there's been a false confession, it's like trying to write a trice. everybody's already against you. the person's been convicted by a jury. the judge thinks he's guilty. the jury thinks he's guilty. now you have to convince everybody that they're wrong. so a case that you're deeply invested in is a case of an alien ship who has been in prison for 20 years. renee lynch was a case we took about 2 and a half now maybe 3 years ago now. and she was accused and convicted of killing her landlord in buffalo, new york in 1905. and it's also obviously

a false confession cases. the police are going crazy and they can't solve it 18 months go by. and renee's connection to the victim was that it was her landlord. and so they are start looking into renee, who at the time was heavily addicted to drugs crack cocaine. and because she gets arrested for something else and they start interrogating her. and she confesses to killing her landlord with this guy karim. so she says kareem, and i went to my landlord's house. we were going to rob her. the robbery goes bad, and kareem stabs her. she's a good century can make it a felony, murder being present during the commission, a crime, and somebody gets killed. we started sort of doing, you know, just regular google searches on the players' names and detectives and everything in this t.v. show. women behind bars comes up and they've done an episode or news case where

they got in the, in the prison and interviewed her and then interviewed this joseph court was the cop on the case. the way her body, when she decided to go, you just saw, we're starting to told the truth. i believe her confession is kind of nonsense. there's inconsistency between the physical evidence and what she says. and during the show, he says, well, i mean we knew that corinne walker was in florida. at the time of our crime karim was of the crime of our i guess they knew kareem walker was in florida at the time the crime. then rene's confession can't possibly be true because she's confessing to going to rob the landlord with kareem and the defense been able to put that on her confession would have made no sense. but the defense was never told the whole thing is so full of holes and so bogus. i can't put my finger out and say

like, you know, this is the thing. but i think if we dug in it, we could find that thing that could get her out because it's all it's just all of it. so it's messed up. how do they record this confession? and didn't know, i mean, did they make, you know, they typed it up and then read it to her and made her sign it. so there is a type of confession is the only version of the confession. there's no like original notes. they have or something that we have to wonder about. she says, details about the crime scene because they showed her photos of it that she, you know how the body was lying and being shown her those photos. you have to find some kind of new evidence. didn't exist at the time of the trial or didn't, didn't exist at the time a tro, but it wasn't known right. and it wasn't presented during the trial. and then we have to show that it could have been

a different outcome and i think we can, but it's going to be hard. our goal is of course to get renee out of prison, but it can take a really long time. sometimes many years. and one of the 1st things we do in cases like this is to comb through the confession and find all that in consistencies. to clearly show that the confessions there's a cream walker drove me to 90 longmeadow m. hearse. the plan was, i was going to go into the front door and karim was going to come up the back door . he was going to tie her up with a piece of white extension cord that he brought with him at babson time, kareem hit louise in the side of the face, fell to the floor and kind of went out. if that happened, he would be standing punching her here, right. on cream head here in the face,

he knocked the wig off. a wig landed on the floor in the kitchen kitchen. he tried to tie louise up with the plastic or he had. then carry comes from behind louise. he stabbed her at least twice. however, we know it's 8 times louise fell to the floor again. it was a large amount of blood on the floor next to her body. so the only thing she gets right is that the way it was knocked off that there's a plastic cord involved in this case is correct, and the phone cord is where the extra d.n.a. is. i miss phyllis, jeanne fisher, byron nelson, rene lynch's attorney. i have a call with her this morning. oh good things. i

oh, i 000000000 why? oh, why? i. i i i oh, i know it's hard. she testified very incoherent way. she was high during the trial. was she was not a good witness for her. so she recanted right away afterwards. and her confession is that it was a coerced. when i talked about this, they're like, well,

i would never confess when people say i've been talking about this for 30 years and that's the 1st thing. but it wouldn't happen today. it's not one time the person that gives a false confession. we are all under the circumstance of interrogation. we are all trained detectives. i've spoken to who say i can get anybody to press today. and many of them will boast that they have a 95 percent confession rate and see a lesser of a lesser near perfect identifying the perpetrator. that is, every suspect you identify is the perpetrator, right? if you've got a confession, you're producing a whole lot of false confessions. when i talk to her about it, she explains to me, i was so shocked that they convicted me. she said because there was no evidence of a confession so powerful. it can stand alone. so here's the jury. on the one hand, they've got the confessions on the one and they've got the confessions, trump,

the d.n.a. changes. everything is sometimes not like in the final product of a confession. hollywood production is scripted by the police theory of the case. it is rehearsed and action camera ready to go and that's what the jury sees. they don't see the whole production, they just see the final. i don't see how the judge or jury can look past a false confession. if they don't see the presence, and we have a number of documented cases in which the person who falsely confessed actually came to believe the lie that they were told about their own behavior. which is a whole nother level of insanity. and some of those believe it for a long time afterwards.

you can see it there. you see here in the melted thompson case we had, he was a danish inturn. who came he was a danish, he was a college student studying to become, a teacher. and he came and interned at i.p.s., which is really, you know, like a $20000.00, a year preschool up by the u.n. . and it was a code teacher who accuses him of molesting all the kids in the class. and he's on the cover of the daily news. they take his focus, his facebook profile pictures, him with his niece on his shoulders. so they put that on the cover of the daily news and write sex monster. and they go arrest him in the morning and bring him

into the station and they have a female cop interrogate him. she tells him, while, you know, we have video of you molesting these kids, which they had videos, but he's not molesting anybody. so they had this woman who accused him, had taken videos of him in the classroom, interacting normally with children. and so either the cops had watched it or they had watched it and were blatantly lying to him, but there was no video of him molesting kids, but he hears that right. and he thinks holy, well, if i'm on video, i must have done it right. they let him continue to believe this lie that he's caught red handed on tape molesting these kids. and i think that, that, you know, he started, you could tell through the hole when they finally are recording him. he's doubting himself. you know, he's, he's wondering, did i do this?

l. look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people must obey the orders given it by human beings, except we're such orders that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. at the point, all of you seem to crave trust. our government shia areas there with artificial intelligence. will somebody be a robot must protect its own existence with

mr. thompson. can you tell me why i'm here because for my colleagues and for inappropriate behavior, it was ok. so why don't you tell me how they're reacting, how this started, what happened? you know what i you know, well if i can feel what i can remember, just had to go down just a few moments about it and then proceed in the present. and i had taken its

place and going around to a story on my shorts and you know, short of going forward in that or question where we were going. and so what, when you think of your pleasure at one time that the central of it would have to be i don't know, you know, i'm a member of a dislike of it. and if you read out the statement i did, that's your handwriting. and it just like an older, briefly doesn't look like it's been changed in any way. and that's your signature at the bottom of page. if you read those that are here today, they're going to show you the camera. i

don't even think people in the us really get that the police are allowed to lie to you. i think most people would think that if i am speaking to a police officer, he's telling me the truth. but now the times, i mean in denmark, it's illegal for the police to lie to you. so he really, i think, was, you know, really says extra susceptible to something like that. it took us filing the civil rights to teach even get access to these tapes. the district attorney wouldn't give it to us when the criminal case was pending. we asked the court, we moved for a court order to get it. the judge just wouldn't give it to us. but they sat on these tapes for 8 months. he had this case hanging over his head and they knew that there was nothing in the tapes. right. there was the only evidence. there was yes, luckily, melted never got convicted right. we were able to stop it before that happened. but it took, i mean, it almost killed him. sexual

abuse involving very young children were brought to the attention district attorney's office. to thoroughly investigate and involved in 2 children, particularly in this instance preschool ages. and one just missed this case after all, and gather in our extensive investigation. we have to have

you know, have you ever seen anybody use like a piece of a foam court to prop up the waves or put it just all the way forward to? i don't know if i have a case where there is a piece of foam cord found inside of why would you have a phone cord and use it later on your head to give the league a little for a little breaks if they're for that. because if there is some koofi in the hair, it's not like it's just like

a 3 to 4 inches of phone cord or nays case, we're trying to get permission to test all the old evidence for d.n.a. . but to do that, we have to collect as much information about her innocence as we possibly can. go back and interview all the witnesses, documents, go back to the crime scene. i keep coming back to this thing that the cops knew. he was in florida and kept going with the story that they did together like wife, if they know he's in florida, why don't they like your life?

you're lying to us because he's in, we know he's in florida. why don't they are confronted by hearsay? that how can they be permitted to go forward with a serious of a case that they know is not true. name a trial basically match or as you say, that's why the trickery. and the only way to convict somebody of this was to do it that way. yes, it just makes me so jaded and really disgusted with the district attorney's offices. and i feel like, you know, the, you know, they're supposed to be at the top of the chain right there. it's supposed to be the ones making sure the cops made mistakes, or people below the cops made mistakes, then they're the ones who are responsible for fixing it. why not do d.n.a. testing? think why not me? we're all, we're not infallible. we can all make mistakes. why not check? i mean, her name's going to be in prison for the rest of her life. why not just check?

you know, they can never answer that question. so you just end up in court with, you know, them opposing your motions for d.n.a. testing and unending ability gating instead of working together in rene's case, it's especially frustrating because, i mean, they certainly believe that this was done. not the stabbing was not done by her, right. so there is a set of the, i mean, they're basically admitting that they have a cold case and there's a murder out there, and they still don't want to do it. you know, it's did 2 people either 2 people or somebody other than renee, committed that crime. and that person is out and about, and d.n.a. contesting to show who they are, but they're still posing as am

you know, the central park jogger case was my 1st interaction with false confessions our firm represented corey wise on his civil rights case way to start i mean, you're diving right into the bed there. you know, the circumstances that play in that case were huge amount of pressure on the police and the authorities to make arrests and make them step forward. 7 years in prison was one of the most notorious crimes in the history of new york city. it was a crime in which a woman who was a wealthy upper east side investment banker,

was out jogging, and was dragged into the woods in central park and almost beaten to death. and there was front page news every day, everywhere. and they are out to get arrests and i got him. ringback when you get to the false confessions, in that case, it was a classic, you know, mismatch. they were totally overmatched, underrepresented if represented at all. i don't know what they could pick or even have anyone in the room without his consent is 16. so he was considered an adult, sadly, and so his mom was not allowed in there and they, you know, had, given the lawyers, they all waived their, their miranda rights rights

. chris says that it's this is very, very serious in this neighborhood. we don't know at this point a way to use an example. we do say you're seeing those pictures. i'm sure you can see where this point is to play. it is hard for people to understand how this can help, how the could produce a confession, something they didn't to it. and there really is

a complicated set of stories. there is no one reason you know why is confessed to get out of this bad situation. he was under pressure from many, many hours away. he was likely be told that others were giving stories and that to cooperate in order to go home. and it is very telling in the central park 5 case that every one of them, every one of the boys and every one of the parents who were present were surprised . the boys were arrested after their statements. every one of them i was going home, right? well, you know what, it sounds crazy right here. thought you were going or confess to a rape and go home. right. but you know that one false confessors were interviewed afterward and they've been exonerated. and the 1st question, everybody wants those, i don't understand why don't you confirm the most typical response? because i want to go back in this and people often say afterwards, you know,

i was so i figured let me sign this confession. do all work itself out in the, time to soften say, you know, we have d.n.a., we're going to send these things that claiming they have d.n.a. is a way to scare the criminal into submission demand. the right, the person you're talking to is not the criminal, but an innocent person that becomes a promise of future exoneration. makes it easier to control. we're going to do some tests. we're going to take blood samples from a lot of people. the. i just want to know that if we do that, we will probably get an order to take a sample from you. and then we'll compare the 2 tests. very because your new position now where you know that there's going to be a match. you better off, tell us about it now. instead of saying something that's not true or is this

one of the things i think they made you say was that you cut her on the legs? how did you come up with that? i don't know. i don't know, i don't know what you people look for to see whether what we're saying is actually playing out in the real world. and sort of thing to look at would be the u.s. dollar versus the chinese there. that's going to tell you what's happening in the global economy. if this all this debt is going to trigger all this money printing, the dollar will start to flow, and it's already, you know, looking very weak. and i think the last 4 years under they've been able to keep them propped up. but i think now i'm going to see

a serious decline of the dollar. chinese currency start to really outperform the dollar. which will impose will suit we were sleeves. so sure. what to do w. clubbable was you are sure to keep borders that doesn't actually emerge. that would have been a promotion by you to go with us because all of these new used to those told me game we will see in the movie. confused with the we've seen the movies used by his emotions to be some of what is in your speech, come home and use the of the 20th century. was thing in or of revolution. the great depression and world war, the 21st century of mental illness. those aren't my words, that's what surfaced some psychiatry's to tell us. the only question is,

except it is a fact use in today's headlines, several arrests are made in the armenian capital, where people gathered for an anti-government protests as they're unhappy about the terms of the new truce, signed by armenia and azerbaijan. also this hour out for blood just a week after the us presidential election, which could be contested in court. democrats declare, open season on anyone who's ever supported double trump, some even demanding the destruction of their rivals. we have to collectively, yes, burn out the republican party. we have to level up and the latest study suggests that russia's cry.