in the last 30 days that includes a nighttime curfew and i attest to speak about budapest plans to chip in this, but make the job with hungary's foreign minister himself in quarantine after getting the virus any time. international cooperation that based on mutual respect is in pour, that it is not. and i think the book received political correctness, judging each other during each other should be left behind. and instead of the moment that king go out, their country is on the political basis, we should think about how to cooperate. that's why i think international cooperation would be extremely important when it comes to the vaccine for example. so sometimes i have the feeling that the short of vaccines is becoming politicized, which i think should be again, we are crossing fingers for all companies and countries which are moving forward with developing the vaccine regardless who they are. so we are interested in india,

american, in the european, in their russian, in the chinese, in these really vaccine development and research to be successful. because the more scenes we will have is the better, you know, shooting with everybody, including russia, of course. so it's any time political aspects should be left behind and this is the fight. we understand. it is realistic that indeed some are a small scale all of the various be launched in order to make the national national necessary clinical trials on their suspect in hungary. and as all for the 2nd part of january, it might be realistic that food by quality from russia. but we are not going to negotiate and go about simply buying vaccine for russia. we are not all shooting localise ation, what the production or at least the part of the production to hungary. there is a company operating here in a hungry, which has been producing for other or viruses and diseases. of course,

they seem to be able to transform their capacity in a way that they would be able to be involved in the production cycle. but then use our squeeze it all and now join me for a dyson alpha. now god you are these 10 for one. also, i think you are talking about her because you're really into you leave that up. i just sat there watching 5 minutes. you're not going home. i can guarantee they won't come back to wrongful conviction. when jason, today we're going to be doing a deep dive into an issue as fascinating exhibits to our finding,

which is the phenomenon of false confessions. and my guest today is going to be jane fisher. are you also currently working on more cases involving false confessions and each is fascinating its own way. so jane, while some confession happened to me, and jane is an attorney who is an expert on false confessions. and so jane, how did you get into this work? i was a public defender in manhattan here in new york city for about 3 years. and we saw a lot of police misconduct, you know, we were doing arraignments up until 1 am in the morning and you see people beat up or, you know, people whose cases get dismissed, who get no compensation. so my husband and i left the legal aid society with the hopes of doing civil rights work. my name is old castle. i'm a distinguished professor of psychology at john jay college of criminal justice. once a false confession is taken, the case was closed and nobody really can tell the difference between

a good confession and one that is a problem with all of this is that your tactics that can be used to get innocent people and i don't just mean vulnerable innocent people, i mean people who are sitting around in this room to confess to crimes. they didn't commit. anytime you do an exoneration case where there's been a false confession, it's like trying to write a trice. everybody's already against you. the person's been convicted by a jury. the judge thinks he's guilty. the jury thinks he's guilty. now you have to

convince everybody that they're wrong. so a case that you're deeply rested and is a case of an alien ship who has been in prison for 20 years. renee lynch was a case we took about 2 and a half now maybe 3 years ago now. and she was accused and convicted of killing her landlord in buffalo, new york in 1995. and it's also obvious if confession cases, the police are going crazy and they can't solve it 18 months go by. and bernie's connection to the victim was that it was her landlord. and so they are start looking into renee, who at the time was heavily addicted to drugs crack cocaine. and because she gets arrested for something else and they start interrogating her. and she confesses to

killing her landlord with this guy karim. so she says, kareem, and i went to my landlord's house, we were going to rob her. the robbery goes bad, and karim stabs her. so if she's a good century, it can make it a felony, murder being present during the commission of crime, somebody gets killed. we started sort of doing, you know, just regular google searches on the players' names and detectives and everything in this t.v. show. women behind bars comes up and they've done an episode on days case where they got in the, in the prison and interviewed her. and then interviewed this joseph was the cop on the case, the way her body when she decided to go, you just saw. we're starting to told the truth. i believe her confession is kind of nonsense. there's inconsistency between the physical evidence and what she says. and during the show, he says, well,

i mean we knew that corinne walker was in florida at the time of our crime and toward karim was of the crime. i guess they knew kareem walker was in florida at the time the crime then rene's confession can't possibly be true because she's confessing to going to rob the landlord with kareem and the defense been able to put that on her confession would have made no sense that the defense was never told the whole thing is so full of holes and so bogus. i can't put my finger out and say like, you know, this is the thing. but i think if we dug in it, we could find that thing that could get her out because it's all it's just all of it. so it's messed up. how do they record this confession? and didn't know, i mean, did they make, you know, they typed it up and then read it to her and made her so. and so there is a type of confession is the only version of the confession. there's no like

original notes. they have or something that we have to wonder about. she says, details about the crime scene because they showed her photos of it. how does she know how the body was lying? there shown her those photos of some kind of new evidence didn't exist at the time of the trial or didn't, didn't exist at the time a tro, but it wasn't known right. and it wasn't presented during the trial. and then we have to show that it could have been could have been a different outcome which i think we can, but it's going to be hard. our goal is of course to get renee out of prison. but it can take a really long time. sometimes many years and one of the 1st things we do in cases like this is to comb through the confession and find all that in consistencies. to clearly show that the confessions there's

a cream walker drove me to the plan was i was going to go into the front door and cream was going to come up the back door. he was going to tie her up with a piece of white extension cord that he brought with him at babson time, kareem hit louise in the side of the face, and louise fell to the floor and kind of went out. if that happened, he would be standing punching her here, right. on cream head here in the face, he knocked the wig away, landed on the floor in the kitchen kitchen. he tried to tie louise up with the plastic or he had. then carry comes from behind. louise, he stabbed her at least twice. however, we know it's 8 times louise fell to the floor again. it was

a large amount of blood on the floor next to her body. so the only thing she gets right is that the witness knocked off. that there's a plastic cord involved in this case. that's correct. and the phone cord is where the extra d.n.a. is. i miss phyllis, jeanne fisher, barry elson, rene lynch's attorney. i have a call with her this morning. oh, good things. oh i 000000000 i quite i i i i oh oh, i know it's hard. she

testified been very incoherent lee, she was high during the trial. was she was not a good witness for her. so she recanted right away afterwards and her confession is that is it was a coerced when i would never say contests when people say i've been talking about this for 30 years, and that's the 1st thing. everybody says, but it wouldn't happen today. it's not one time the person that gives a false confession. we are all under the circumstance of interrogation. we are all trained detectives. i've spoken to who say i can get anybody to press today. and

many of them will boast that they have a 95 percent confession rate and see a lesser of a less perfect identifying the perpetrator. that is, every suspect you identify is the perpetrator, right? if you've got a confession, you're producing a whole lot of false confessions. when i talk to her about it, she explains. i was so shocked that they convicted me. she said because there was no evidence of a confession so powerful it can stand alone. so here's the jury. on the one hand, they've got the confessions of the one, they'll go to confession strip, the d.n.a. changes everything. and sometimes i've likened the final product of a confession to a hollywood production is scripted by the police theory of the case is rehearsed and action camera ready to go. and that's what the jury sees. they don't see the whole production, they just see the final. i don't see how the judge or jury can look past the false

confession. is that also the presence and we have a number of documented cases in which the person who falsely confessed actually came to believe the lie that they were told about their own behavior. which is a whole nother level of insanity and some of them believe it for a long time afterwards. you can see here in the melted thompson case we had he was a danish inturn who came he was a danish,

he was a college student studying to become, a teacher and he came and interned at i.p.s.,, which is really, you know, like a 20 $1000.00, a year preschool, up by the u.n., and it was a code teacher who accuses me of molesting all the kids in the class. and he's on the cover of the daily news. they take his focus, his facebook profile pictures, him with his niece on his shoulders. so they put that on the cover of the daily news and write sex monster. and they go arrest him in the morning and bring him into the station and they have a female cop interrogate him. she tells him, while, you know, we have video of you molesting these kids, which they had videos, but he's not molesting anybody. so they had this woman who accused him, had taken videos of him in the classroom, interacting normally with children. and so either the cops had watched it or they

had watched it and were blatantly lying to him, but there was no video of him molesting kids, but he hears that right. and he thinks holy, well, if i'm on video, i must have done it right. they let him continue to believe this lie that he's caught red handed on tape molesting these kids. and i think that, that, you know, he started, you could tell through the hole when they finally are recording him. he's doubting himself. you know, he's, he's wondering, did i do this? this is a story of women and women with troubled histories and complex court cases. you know, some out there where nat is the person that if she's innocent, they are considered the most dangerous of criminals. she's in

a still probably off 23 hours of the day. tell me that is not enough punishment. world of women on death row, teamed. mr . thompson. can you tell me why i'm here because in order for inappropriate behavior, it was ok. so why don't you tell me the ending, how this started, what happened?

you know, what you know? well, you know what i can remember just had to go down just a few moments about it. and then i had taken its place and playing around to the story of my shorts and you know, short of going forward in that or question what you would call it. and so what, when you say gave him pleasure at one time without a central mind, her resume of it would have to be i don't know,

you know, a member of it and it's like, is this not just you read out the statement? i did. that's your handwriting, and if i am just waiting over briefly because it looks like it's been changed in any way. and that's your signature. because you're at this hour earlier today, you're going to show the camera. i don't even think people in the u.s. really get that the police are allowed to lie to you. i think most people would think that if i am speaking to a police officer, he's telling me the truth. but now times i mean in denmark, it's illegal for the police to lie to you. so he really, i think, was, was, you know, really says extra susceptible to something like that. it took us filing the civil rights suit to even get access to these tapes. the district attorney wouldn't give it to us when the criminal case was pending. we asked the court, we moved for

a court order to get it. the judge just wouldn't give it to us. but they sat on these tapes for 8 months. he had this case hanging over his head and they knew that there was nothing in the tapes. right. there was the only evidence there was yes, luckily mel to never got convicted right. we were able to stop it before that happened. but it took, i mean, it almost killed him sexual abuse involving very young children were brought to the attention of the district attorney's office to thoroughly investigate and involved in the children, particularly in this instance for peaceful nations. and one of the things in just this case, after carol and gather in our tents,

we have to have you know, have you ever seen anybody use like a piece of a phone cord to prop up to put it on just the way forward to i don't know if i have a case where there is

a piece of foam cord found inside of why would you have to use it later on your head to give the league a little for a little weeks if they're flat. because if there is some koofi in the hair, like it's just like a 3 to 4 inches of phone cord attached we're trying to get permission to test all the old evidence for d.n.a. . but to do that, we have to collect as much information about her innocence as we possibly can. and

go back and interview all the witnesses documents, go back to the crime scene. i keep coming back to this thing that the cops knew. he was in florida and kept going with the story that they did together. like if they know he's in florida, why don't they like your life? you're lying to us because he's in, we know he's in florida. why don't they are confronted by hearsay? that how can they be permitted to go forward with a serious of a case that they know is not true. name made the trial basically match or as you say, that's why the trickery. and the only way to convict somebody of this was to do it that way. yes, it just makes me so jaded and really disgusted with the district attorney's

offices. and i feel like, you know, the, you know, they're supposed to be at the top of the chain right there is supposed to be the ones making sure the cops made mistakes or people below the cops made mistakes. then they're the ones who are responsible for fixing it. why not do d.n.a. testing? think why not me? we're all, we're not infallible. we can all make mistakes. why not check? i mean, her name is going to be in prison for the rest of her life. why not just check? you know, they can never answer that question. so you just end up in court with,, you know, them opposing your motions for d.n.a., testing and unending ability gaining instead of working together. in rene's cases, especially frustrating because, i mean, they certainly believe that this was done. not the stabbing was not done by her. so there is a set the, i mean, they're basically admitting that they have a cold case and there's a murder out there. and they still don't want to do it. you know, it's did 2 people either 2 people or somebody other than renee, committed that crime. and that person is out and about, and d.n.a.

contesting could show who they are, but they're still posing as am you know, the central park jogger case was my 1st interaction with false confessions our firm represented corey wise on his civil rights case way to start i mean, you're diving right into the bed there. you know, the circumstances that play in that case were huge amount of pressure on the police and the authorities to make arrests and make them step

forward. having years in prison with one of the most notorious crimes in the history of new york city, it was a crime in which a woman who was a wealthy upper east side investment banker was out jogging at dusk and was dragged into the woods in central park and almost beaten to death and there was front page news every day, everywhere. and they are out to get arrests. and they got him. when you get to the false confessions, in that case, it was a classic, you know, mismatch. they were totally overmatched,

underrepresented if represented at all. i don't know what you could do, corey, even have anyone in the room without his consent is 16. so he was considered an adult, sadly. and so his mom was not allowed in there. and they, you know, had given them lawyers, they all waived their, their miranda rights rights . chris says that it is very, very serious in this neighborhood. we don't know if this is their way to use an example. we do say and exactly what

you're seeing. those pictures, i'm sure if you can see where it is, why it is a way it is hard for people to understand how this can help produce a confession, something they didn't too. and there really is a complicated set of stories is there is no one reason you know why he's confessed to get out of this bad situation. he was under pressure from many, many hours. he was likely be told that others were giving stories and that to, to cooperate in order to go home. and it is very telling in the central park 5 case that every one of them, every one of the boys and every one of the parents who were present were surprised . the boys were arrested after their statements. every one of them i was going home,

right? well, you know what, that sounds crazy right here. thought you were gone or confess to a rape and go home. right. but you know that one false confessors were interviewed afterward and they've been exonerated. and the 1st question, everybody wants those, i don't understand why don't you confront the most typical response? because i want to go back in this and people often say afterwards, you know, i was so was so stressed, i figured let's sign this confession,, do all work itself out in the end to soften say, you know, we have d.n.a., we're going to some of these things that claiming they have d.n.a. is a way to scare the criminal into submission. it may be right, but if the person you're talking to is not the criminal but an innocent person, then the law becomes a promise of future exoneration. makes it easier to contrast. really say

we're going to do some tests. we're going to take blood samples from a lot of the i just want to know that if we do that, we will probably get an order to take a sample from you. and then we'll compare it to tests because you're in this issue now where if you know that there's going to be a match date, you better off. tell us about it now or the stairs instead of saying something that's natural or this is the state. one of the things i think they made you say was that you cut her on the legs. how did you come up with that? i don't know. came from no, i don't know. i don't know. i don't know. welcome to maximize or financial survival.

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