public health and solidarity about fighting about endemic with internationalism, all of them all going on in today's going underground. a 1st of joe biden ever becomes us president. in january, he will preside over a country with the highest prison population in the world, 26 years after he supported a crime bill. the critics claim was responsible for a system of methink ulceration that imprisons more per capita than stalin or mao. joining me now is a criminal defense lawyer of over 25 years because cory 18 k. and us justice systems in his new book, justice on trial, radical solutions for a system at breaking point. chris dorky pres, welcome, do, going underground. a lot of people talking about britain, possibly breaking international law or over a break said, but your new book is so beautiful and eloquently written about britain's justice system. how difficult was it even to write a book at such a damning account of the judicial system here from the inside? to be honest with you, spend a bit of time last year just thinking about what

a mess we've made of our justice not just in the last few years, but the foot from the century. we spent time just, you know, looking people up for no reason trying to criminalize drugs with no good to be want and even put children in prison as you know from the police, just insane. so we have a completely dysfunctional system, and i spend all the, she's working on the side of the system. i just think it's about time that people on the outside notice like, you know, we covered the plight of julian assange, the world famous journalist, the un special rapporteur, meals meltzer has been on this program, alleging he was being tortured at belmarsh prison in london. you know, some people, i don't know, some mainstream media newspapers call it all in a camps these british presence. you begin the book in belmarsh. i do and it's a horrific place. it's terrible to be easy. as a visitor, as a lawyer, it takes a long time to get even as a visa, but to actually be an inmate there. so destroy,

you know, me not went to the special secure unit there. and i saw clients in there and, you know, describe the conditions in the book. it's a soulless, bleak, miserable place. designed to do nothing of the human spirit. and i genuinely see anyone has been any time to which of course, some people say that's what it should be like. but in the book you quote peter clarke lead 29 u.k. chief prison inspector, claiming comparisons with before the 18th twenty's. we are a situation where some of our prisons are no better in the way they treat people than 200 years ago, or even in some cases 2000 years ago. you know, we particularly at the moment, i mean, i suppose supply yesterday, i suppose or not on friday. they are being locked up for 23 hours a day in a small box. now if that isn't a full of psychological torture designed to do nothing but make people go crazy and actually come out of prison and commit more crimes that i don't know what it's all the, some of the defendants actually feel safer in prisons. i describe some of the really

deeply damaged individuals that act it for people who are, you know, with the care system. as many people in prison were who were abused as children about it. as children often end up streets and homeless and our prisons are full of people like that for whom actually, despite the terrible conditions, prison is somehow better than my family outside. and you mentioned, you know, why enjoy life past and go that he'd rather be in prison than furry, quick bit of practical advice before we get to the usa and russia, you trace jurisprudent trials, right? from mayan civilization. then talk about juries. if anyone's against jury trial in britain, you say, don't worry too much of judges interfere too much because juries they don't like it . no, that's true. but my experience of egoless chair is that anyone by not being told what to do by the judge. and if they feel the judge and given the defendant affect crack of the whip, the jury will side, you know,

stuff. you just weaken it. really going to decide the verdict that we like. and we're going to find the defendant not guilty, whatever you might think. and of course, that's right, because that's what the system requires. that requires the jury's rigs, a verdict, but i've seen it time and again, when judges try and kind of influence the jury and sight and see things about the defendant. i mean to rock defense counsel, including maybe when in the middle cross-examination did. i see the jury sit there and say, this isn't fair. and if the jury does think it's bad, they will say not guilty us the great thing about the english jury system. well, over in the united states, everyone is talking about president elect joe biden, and perhaps i mean that lots of disturbing things in your new book, but when it comes to mass incarceration the policy espoused by joe biden, you come up with something called the city of incarceration just explain how you see the u.s. justice system since joe biden's reforms. well also that joe biden has been a huge advocate of mass incarceration. i mean that at the for the truth is that

mass incarceration is a great end in the u.s. psyche. and in the u.s. criminal justice system for all sorts of reasons the, that it has prevailed on every single president, the prison population, as i say, are not true. so about a city of incarceration. 2350000 people in american prisons and it would be the 5th largest city in america. if it were a city that is quite staggering. i mean, when you think about the papers and population, she's over 80000, but that's the largest in western europe. but there are 2350000000 and the truth of it stays that they have this huge capitalist corporate structure, a private prison environment, which he says, massively, profits of gold ration. and vested interests, really there's no incentive to change and it cost them hundreds of billions of dollars

a year to keep sea with $35000000.00 in prison. and you don't want to have the highest rates of guarana murder on earth. well, i know you say all prisons should be closed. what you say if what you are alleging is true, that the reason things don't change is really because of the kind of corporate low being that goes on with judges. it's a mixture of things. the 1st is that there is a political attachment and it's an attachment that the general public often shares to really tough sentences. so locking people up for as long as possible. that's where you end up with hundreds or thousands of years sentences in some states because people voted for it and people like it. but the other thing is the criminal justice system, including the prison system and many other elements of the system, is a multi $1000000000.00 industry. and their own vested interests are made. they invest the lobby of politicians. they have many, many candidates who are supported by corporations which are profiting from the criminal justice process. and american politics often, you know,

depends heavily on the lobbying of private interests in order to see it in order to push policy along. and that, and that, that's a factor has been easily increasing factor not been to american prisons. i've seen the employers of the private sector and it's a really, really scary thing. well, of course we have private prisons here spearheaded by labor and tory government. you have no time for boris johnson's get tough platform in the election in december . just tell me the how of your peers treated this new book of yours because given that it wants to abolish prisons, given that it talks about this, these political pressures on justice and paints such a poor picture of justice. not only in britain in the united states, and i should say, other countries, russia, which will get on to what have you piers said about it. so i think many of my colleagues support the cruelty. yes. it's that the criminal justice system is completely broken. but when i was writing the book, i traveled all over the us in particular in the deep south with some of the, you know, the most draconian prison sentences or in those in some of the worst prison

conditions. and the irony of it was, i spoke to judges who are responsible for imposing these very long sentences, or even the death penalty. and to a man and woman, they all said, we know it doesn't work. we know these very long sentences, a ridiculous, we know this, an 18 year old to prison for the rest of his natural life. for drugs, crime is easy, a moral and counterproductive and ridiculously draining and expensive to the state and destroys whole communities. and my sense of, well, why do you do it then? they said, because if we didn't impose sentences like that, no one would vote for us and we wouldn't have a job. he's going back to democracy. i mean, joe biden was also playing as well as supporting the crime bill that the war on drugs must be fought central in your book. not only in the united states. you also talk about what happened in russia and russia came into crimea. tell me about why drugs are so important to the injustice that you document in the book. as i describe in the book, i think i managed to, i mean i had

a lot of research on the book. i managed to find examples of the early human 2000000 years ago, taking psychotropic drugs in the fall with psychotropic plots, and sort of co-evolved by using psychotropics as off the development of the human species. and the truth is that people have taken drugs of one kind or nama, since time began, and they always will. and so the problem with criminalizing something which is so fundamental to who we are, all we do is that it's never going to work. and when you criminalize it, all you do, if you create this, she blacked mock huge opportunities for profit, for all the nice criminals and sob sob, backbite by the government. so all corruption in the state, all this just operating is these massive, international, honest crime. it works better, you have an unregulated losses, organized crime market. what follows is types, what follows is violence, what follows is murder on the streets. but in all of these, i mean,

you talk about the london bridge attacks, you and i so many different elements of jurisprudence. you seem to be alleging by the end of the book that there's a kind of totalitarian conditioning amongst the public about what justice is. and that's why we have the crimes of the justice system to continue. i think i think it's a cultural rather than a totalitarian mindset and we in certainly the english speaking world in britain and the us in particular. yet there has been these very strong dry tools punishment as being the aim of the system, as opposed to what most people might think the point of the system is which he said reduce the amount of crime. and there's a conflict between those 2 things. if the morally punishing a reader, tony in way are there in the form of physical chastisement, the death penalty, all very loan for tony in prison sentences, the more crime you get, what the public thinks,

which is to quote unquote punish criminals. a crackdown is actually the feeling that results in more crime, in our society. you say prison does not work every single day of every single prison sentence makes a society poor. i'm going to just quickly briefly ask you about the effect of coronavirus on defendants. maybe a whole chambers of your colleagues chambers. how worried are you about coronavirus and british presence? it's a really serious problem on 2 fronts. one of coles is that the faction rates in prison, and that been these big outbreaks in certain institutions, but more widely. and as i say, our speech spoken supplier's just in the last couple of days who are via video conferencing in prison. and they are telling me of the, of the detroit or a mental health crisis that's developing because they are being locked up. they are there, the education process in prison is now being closed. they are not out any visitors . and can you imagine that sitting in a cell as they often often 22 or 23 hours

a day with nothing to do nowhere to go? no natural light and not even allowed to visit us because anybody from the outside world and i spoke to tom on friday. he said he'd been in this condition for now for since the beginning of march. so it's about 8 or 9 months, even i think steve solitary confinement and so you know, because he's having a massive impact on people in prison. do you think the public can say too bad? they deserve it, but those people in prison are going to come out and they could be on the streets either in a month or year or in 10 years. and the more you damage them on the inside, the more damage they do to us when they come out. crystal can you see thank you. after the break with new u.s. sanctions to come into force against cuba, what example is washington still so afraid of. and what lessons can you liberal countries like britain, which has transferred billions into private corporations to learn from a country with fewer than $200.00 dead?

and that spawns competition for cooperation in the fight against coronavirus. all this more coming up about 2 of going on the ground. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show. and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics, sports business, i'm show business. i'll see you then during the vietnam war, u.s. forces also bombed to neighboring laos. it was a secret war. and for years the american people did not know how much it is a case of coming back to the country per capita. human history, millions of unexploded bombs still in danger. lives in this small agricultural country. jordyn wieber thing going to concerts happening. even today, kids in laos,

full victim to bombs dropped decades ago. is the us making amends for their tragedy in laos? what help do the people need in that little land of mines? welcome back. britain has chosen a new name, a tory part of privatized city, consultancies to help fight coronavirus now has the worst death toll in europe. this while its close its military ally, the usa with nearly as high death for capita rate as the u.k. chooses to wage economic war on the island of cuba. what is washington afraid of that cuba has fewer than $200.00 dead from coated. joining me from glasgow was dr., helen, the f.a. who appears in the new documentary, cuba and cove in 1000 public health science and solidarity. helen, thanks so much for going back on to tell me how a documentary can even be made, let alone the fact that it's producing vaccines because everyone in britain is focused on the scandal hit pfizer company has our greatest hope. wow. when we were

doing ok and she at that point you have one or dot and trials are on it's time we showed the documentary that humans now have 3 times the back scenes are 0, and 2 of them already powerful is just incredible. oh, you think you know that this is a small island nation and that's has some jets to he is the science. i mean facts and terrible time of cause if you thought it was him, all right, own phosphor will see new patients sanctions are the trumpet. ministrations that is it, it's really incredible. we had the convention, he is, and it's firing to see, you know, why and yet still says, let's say all the bunch of really saving lives and livelihoods.

you know what americans watching? this will say, it's a dictatorship. all those brigades, the henry review brigades, we saw pictures of in italy trying to save the lives of italians. they're actually human trafficked doctors and nurses. hey, you kind of answer that in the documentary, tell me about how that may not be right now. well, we were really not he to be had was in one of the 50 free medical specialists who sued not only when he was the epicenter of the mobile pandemic back in late march. and he and he, and you know, he hung that accusation. he said, all right, i am slight, you know, i made my own decision that he explained his own journey in relation to and placed it on me every night and

the cuban medics while i and you know, i asked if they wanted to go on a system where literally sitting in the attic will someone pile 500 past, ready to record and you know, and i want to study these trials and you know, this was my opportunity to impress as they were night lights lives could be saved. president bush at that period. i don't just ignore you and you know, he, this is his burn patient and you many found that you really felt that he and i hadn't started to help patients. ok, well if you watch this documentary, maybe you'll learn different. but if you look at so-called, mainstream media, they're talking about fines or about hastert zeneca, both big pharma multinationals and covert and why do you think we don't hear about the drugs mentioned in the documentary and just fins? all these different treatments, let alone the fact that the revolution itself was,

was, was key. one of these can't ject is a biotech. they can run by and take set side is quite unique. the way it was founded very early on in the dependent of our state on a g. as a field. and it was found in $9081.00. so that was after. and he said, can i say it's a fab in the united states and the situation because this is the corner me the sessions i'm going to make is it 100 percent safe towns and all of the different institutions, the west side, and if it how, which is in harare now, walker, i don't compete, they don't seek to thank for it all that the best production and the whole industry set up to meet public health, all the population is a credible inspiration. mean,, the sector between the public health concepts hat and the education sector. so b.,

if that is the model that essentially undermines base as you think this mainstream . this also says only the free market, only in profit for competition. how we have efficient outcomes. now i would say that this response is that we've seen in countries around that much as candidates well use values and the principles on which each side is open eyes and it has gone by. it's us to question meaning of the fish. when you know you have a public health, how being backed by the speculative race or profits, because even if there is an absolute vaccines that was made many pressure to be asked, how will all countries have access as and at what cost? will it back up a ship to be able to accept the fact that they need to save lives for the cubans? closer to the us, but hey,

it's been 53. important. what all their own facts. i mean, we saw it with the announcement about the trials of a fire for charles, the share price is you know, immediately respond and you know, you have to wonder what i think is process that it is also a tribute to in the mobile side as a great deal more, right? and it is henry, really taking some of our thoughts. all that, you know, has been an event that took a credit line, see it and use it the more of a while. and i wouldn't expect them to rate be a great deal more racial after the human men are really showing some promise, as even at a new british joint venture that's up to the potential for preventing death in critically ill and seriously ill patients of private. and they have had,

their isn't he, in the documentary there's a u.c.l.,, lincoln university, college london. are these good colleges not afraid of u.s., 3rd party sanctions, if they cooperate on health care development with cuba? the issue of u.s. sanctions is a difficult one. there is and you can legislation that makes it illegal for the u.s. mckay to be in full state and, and individuals and companies interests. and i'm the same applies to your question . why that legislation is at risk also. that's the issue. the collaboration, my sweet you see out of the states, they may write one of the hack ventilates and how and why a copy they all said and used to create these sheets that was fundraise through receipts and vinyl set up. you can see the u.k. and, but you know, even for that as a fundraising campaign to save lives,

they have to be very careful about which plan they use. and how they said, can they share the information because money, right? or, you know, if you can examine the cultural events issues has a whole event. right. all right. and, well, i hate how and of all the u.s. . ok. but i want to get on in a moment. don't know why washington is so seemingly afraid of the cuban he examined, but i don't know whether you noticed, but independence age is a committee advising which is named after the committee advising bars on to the government. i don't know whether you think they sound like dr. che guevara, because in the documentary, it's clear that there are echoes of what independent sages saying here that it is localized n.h.s. health care that is the way forward to combating coronavirus as opposed to morris johnson's a 12000000000 pound commission. to dido are doing hand these big city

financial consultancies. what he, what do you make of this difference about why britain has 50000 dead and humor only 850 people has less than 150. i think the goal should be trying to make that the use sensual tool in a way that humans, you know, all contagion and is the family health care. and it's right. these are the family photos i desisted. every community here has the highest i share, not accustomed, pretty 6000 family doctors in my community. they live among my patients, even the docs, it's got that family or not. if i think so help is available and people are out that have a system where they have to cry, it's the house. they took all of that community. so they immediately know if a disease like hybrid comes along that affects the poor for spiritual problems.

they immediately might agree with the former patients and the most incredible and elements of their response to having 19 has being too heavy on any increase the process anyway, which is going to this every home in that community. and they've been assisted by 28000 medical students, the course can carry on their studies at the university. it's funny and i went to call to pull every tape. so they were entities, are they not 100 souls? and they are asked at every one in the house. how you know, how they were feeling, and they were basically tracking down when they had a suspected case, instead of leaving them in the community. they were ordered taken to a medical facility or an isolation center where they test supervised or n.t. indy's isolation sets to great. now they know their isolation is taking

place at home, but they were also doing contract tracing in a very secret state, not just text messages, turning out of people's souls being anyone who had been a contact made thanks have been tested really seriously. and this is the approach you can house has to, which is credential over at your and having this all the time he thought was how ironic that seems to be the system by any and by jon snow in london with color hundreds of years ago. what do you make then? finally of the allegations in the documentary that washington has weaponized coronavirus, a complete contravention to what you meant. 2nd general antonio terrorism said, and how many people do you think the united states defacto killed in bolivia by forcing them to remove cuba's international brigade? well, the residents say it is to the pressure that was pressed on the government site.

that french maid was brazil for libya, and crystal city who i am a spouse, cuba adults, as who, while acting in those countries. and that happened to full be coronavirus pandemic hit those countries. so that on trees had and you know, weak health, public health infrastructure as and without the the systems of the cuban medics. and when you're hit with that pandemic, highly, in the very high death rate, i mean that the result was the songstress and what happened was that the cubans have only met that in the context of a pandemic. they started to send these henry gates at countries. it was the response of the trump administration and in order to undermine press t.v. that this was, this was a compassionate, you know, it was, you know, literally it did of trying to help public health in other countries. it was almost

trying to ministration huge. you book human trafficking saying that these had not slaves and also incredible pressure on but recipient countries. so trying these crazy government, all except thing exists that designed to say lives their own country. well, believe me, as government is changing by the brazilian ecuadorian ambassadors on the ground, half a thank you, that's in the show. we'll be back on wednesday, 27 years in a day, so called u.s. president elect joe biden is to in the senate and argued for what he referred to as the biden crime bill. the bill, which critics say led to the united states having the highest incarceration rate in the world until then, you can join the underground. following up on you tube, twitter, facebook, instagram, and promptly

seizing probably his last battle as president who he tried over the generals and killed by his foreign policy. pick up where we were neo cons again, back in control, the or tactics that can be used to get innocent people to confess, to crimes. they didn't commit. i don't even think people in the us really get that the police are allowed to lie to the person who falsely confessed, actually came to believe the lie that they were told about their own behavior. once a false confession, a stake in the case is closed and nobody really can tell the difference between a good confession and then one that is a new gold rush is underway and gonna thousands of ill equipped workers are flocking to

the gold fields, hoping to strike it rich is a good as those that work, children are torn between gold. my family was very poor. i thought i was doing my best to get back to school. which side will have the strongest appeal? there's a lot on the bull, but the most rational big city bright like you, john, but you know, jesus and many dangers of the rest of the globe are that later. it's also a city where up to $300000.00 crimes are committed every year for the last. when you put it in your mosque, it's filled to the reserve least one police officer for every 200 residents in russia's capital lost on the list. i didn't use notes, we all put in that would make me think that we're not going to authorise. and

that's what i'm to most of this monday morning on r t international law school continues to send peacekeepers to the nagorno-karabakh region to monitor a cease fire. but the leaders of our media and as a by john, our correspondents, on his way to the city of supply kurds, where the russian mission will be based. and armenians in the area burned their homes rather than hand them to azerbaijan. as part of the peace deal, we had a good life here, but now we are tearing down the houses. we build ourselves. i know one thing for sure. i wouldn't even want my kidney me to find himself in a situation like this. it is very hard because we do not have any other choice

despite apparently being on the way out to the trump administration doubles.