continues to claim fraud and has coronavirus debts in the usa approach $250000.00. could it be time for the country to consider another way of going forward, larry sanders is the brother of democratic socialist, senator, and former 2020 us presidential candidate, bernie sanders, and the green party spokesman here on health and social care. he joins me now from oxford. larry, thanks for coming on. so how far do you think any result whoever wins of the election was more a case of who the u.s. public didn't want to occupy the white house rather than did want to occupy that house in pennsylvania avenue where the very 1st thing i want to see not what, who it's president, and he's got lots of limitations to do feed your mass to true democracy. i'd much rather everybody is. i mean everybody close attention and all is aware of what a person the years, both politically and personally,

but what not everybody is paying attention to. this is an attempt to take over the military in terms of putting them on the street against american protesters. that's a turn to the democrats for a 2nd go, at least presumably this time around. you said you don't support biden, you didn't detect the kind of d.n.c. dirty tricks against your brother. that wiki leaks revealed to the world in 2016, as they showed they deliberately attempted to sabotage your brother. well, they're dead, that's their job. there are the other side. they have a set of issues and a set of alterations to what i never thought of them as dirty tricks. that is what you do in a political campaign against somebody who basically your post, you invite only. basically, you posted them both campaigns and they did a lot of things. biden is on the placement, probably a little bit less aggressively nasty than, than clinton. but the crucial thing you stop those campaign trail oppositions.

the crucial thing is that a lot stronger the democratic party is a very right wing and in opportunity well, you know, putting your green party hat on, aside from, you know, talk of the militarism of trump, your, your seem to be kind of well welcoming biden. and we know that biden supports fracking, which presumably you believe is a, is an existential threat to the entire planet. absolutely, you don't know. look, what i'm saying is that we have by a whisker, avoided the most powerful men in the world, having direct control of military forces to be used on the streets whose country that would have been an incredible step back. it may happen yet. this is no, nothing at all. so when i'm saying things that i am pleased, i am the odd one. it is not because i have great expectations of him in policy. the

policy here, his people, when they have dished out or is brilliant, it is actually very good. it's as good as our euro and in some areas, probably more comprehensive. so if biden does a bite and there is some pressure on him, he's got a lot of leeway in this regard. burn or you can disregard all that you can disregard reach to some extent, but there is probably there that means that siege and calling not just the whole science and our own opinions and to burn on civilians. but she grew corn 200 we signed up. so are you seeing you've seen who stamped and it's certainly not your brother. and one person being talked about is michelle flournoy. famously of the center for a new security which is funded by weapons manufacturers to congress people. barbara,

lead them across from california and mark corn for a democrat from wisconsin. have written to biden seemingly begging the neo cons. are not promoted to biden's cabinet. and you know, by his record on, from, i don't know, grenada and panama to the death squads of central america right to libya. why this survey belief that he can be persuaded to be progressive? biden is a conventional politician. yet we hold him to big money for years rolled into the defense industry and he has it isn't. there is no reason to think of him as a certain sure, green president. on the other hand, he has got to pay some of time. neither you or i know how much the term free will, nor what will do well. but there is a problem on the side of the green movement in america. well, you know,

i don't know whether you've talked to your brother meant how many people around the world think he might very well begin bombing syria, or is this 1st a military escapade in january given the people he appears to be appointing. and the fact that those around hillary clinton appeared to be in the shadows. yes. what do you, what do you tell you that it would be better to have a different president? no one up with you would be better. i would different pressure that we don't know is the president we know who the president is. there are some people who pretended they don't know. that's a different role. and it's a real problem. you have, trump is a very powerful figure in american politics, even though he's a lawyer. well, let's just move over to britain. now, of course, i should just say we want to talk about health, but germy corbin's being in the news here. an ally and supporter of your brother in the united states. what do you make of his attempts to get back into the british labor party on the sakia starmer?

he's a cause to been accused of anti-semitism here. similar to your brother being accused of anti semitism, arguably in the united states for wishing to support a resolution is on palestine. they didn't get away with it as it was raised his stomach to suspend fowle at every point. and probably politically, we made a mistake in 03, around at the 70 hour. why don't we do it before the support of the strong, liberal party and certainly very important to the country. and colbert is an essential element. and i don't understand, marc farmer took shots are. 'd risky, politically, much less morally wrong. but this is star oversea, you know,

is he has anything to do with the suspension of jeremy coleman from the labor party and that it was old to do with the process. but one thing is, for sure. corbin detested the privatisation outsourcing of health care as a health care spokesperson for the england and wales green party. tell me how you think britain has dealt with the covert death toll worse by capita than trumps usa . well, i think you are wrong. i think the us is catching up, the index are 1000000 people and so on. but i think britain is still ahead and the worst large country in the world, i think in terms of capital from coal. and you mentioned about the whole testing in tracing truck kind of thing and its connection with privatisation the what, what is tory going to story is actually are, and i didn't quite believe what they had here. we had a damage public health system damaged essentially by the 2012 leslie health bill

was brokered in 2 different pieces in how are actually a very good, very old what leading to your original group in the, in the world. and instead building back on those people, fragmented will, a service was flushed, the local energetics, and the priests who know their new community or slow government, we could have had a record low going very struck in-tray system. i mean that the birth through edith marston's health secretary, matt called after this 12000000000 of taxpayers' money, was handed out to a diner. harding's test and trace, absolutely, i call it says only constantly improving our response to bring the confidence that high quality testing can provide. we've already built the largest coronavirus testing capacity in europe, but testing is diving here into it sucked through. the testing system is most of it is inferior to anybody to the to reality. but the crucial thing is that you are

testing trace. it is the center of how you deal with. 'd the time you have separate people out and there are 2 ways to do it, you could have a full blown shutdown and everybody stays home and not fun with stopping the spread, but is very destructive as well. but what you, your main needs are to get remote to getting it back to square one once you're back to keep things from escalating because they could have very rapidly as we, as we've seen. you have to find ways of finding the people who have to see. secondly, because a lot of people are not symptomatic. you have to have testing to find those people . when you find those people who have the disease using truck out, all the people they've been in contact with is the merits of the operation tendon. tens of thousands of people. you have to have people who know how to talk to people

and get their agreement. and then you have to have ways of supporting those. ok, well i mean, took over. he says it's doing that. the private outsourcing company and the c.e.o. and winston churchill, relative sums ribosomes says what we and our partners have done is nothing short of extraordinary. do you detect corruption in the procurement and all that? but at every level, yes, of course is corruption. you know, there's hardly a day goes by that there isn't a new company. private companies circles is those famous or most disastrous of them . but there's loads and they all have contacts them in the tory party. they're all either friends or relatives, cronies or what, whatever. well, we're investigating 10, only one of the of the william is the well only one and off 1000000000 pounds is alleged to have been given to tory link companies according to one investigation here. how much one and a half 1000000 pounds to one little fracture? yes, is the 10s i cut i have and that is the most. there are many tens of billions. 'd

the 12000000000 or one goal on the, on the track and trace is probably there too, and they're working on this 200000000001 testing everybody in the country. but as i may try to make clear testing is a part of your system, but it's not the whole part. you just test, you don't do anything, but the point is to find out who's got it, who's in contact and get them out of circulation. that's what drives the dumbass, the people suffering from the epidemic down. and they haven't done that. they set up this enormously expensive, totally centralized system which has on train people on telephones, talking people hundreds of miles away. they have no idea who that they don't follow them up. no, they wasted all that money. more important than the money is a waste of all those. so i was, we are back in the hole now with more people dying and having to go into it, shut down, which because people will begin adequately compensated for. this is going to cause

enormous misery. and probably just as well, so the use of the, the failure to use the public system that existed and to build on that and that knowledge in that expertise. and to institute a, an entirely new massively expensive massively in the pension system is cost us the body does well. so that is proud of the record. larry sanders, thank you. after the break, what is the fighting in the horn of africa? catalyzing? tens of thousands of refugees got to do with joe biden foreign policy, the world health organization coronavirus. we investigate the fake news context of to graham attacks on eritrea and ethiopia. all this of all coming up in part 2 of going on the ground.

a new gold rush is underway in ghana. thousands of ill equipped workers are flocking to the gold fields, hoping to strike it. rich. as children are torn between gold from me was very poor. i thought i was doing my best to get

back to school. which side will have the strongest appeal greater trenchard to say? simpson, exacerbating an alarming everyone mindlessly. actually what that means is we end up picking solutions that cost a lot, but actually do very little. it's just a kind of instead of actual solutions that want to join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics or business. i'm show business, i'll see of and welcome

back. tens of thousands of refugees are reportedly fleeing ethiopia for sudan after 2 grand militants. bankrolled on the obama biden administration, exactly globally strategic nations of eritrea and ethiopia. earlier i was joined from washington d.c. by former long time ethiopian opposition leader. namin welcome to going on the ground a lot of talk around the world about who joe biden might put in his cabinet when it comes to foreign affairs at the state department. and so on. should he become president of the united states? what propaganda? a huge detecting from the current conflict between the grey and people's liberation front and ethiopia, and eritrea in the most strategic place on earth, given where all the world's shipping goes through. as regards this conflict, they're not being spain turned out in the international community. a

totally false glossing over so many incidents where sabotaging and prodding to destabilize for the past 2 years since the reformist government of came to 2000. this is in fact, a condemnation of destabilising measures by russians of low order in terms inches and belligerence carried out by the left leaders because they lost the dominance and the lost power. they lost the lion's share of both on the political and economic life. or if you have a special song about the timing, just as it looks like it could be possible, that biden may return to the government along with a bomb or hair or officials who might have to explain how the thing gray people's

liberation front were defacto funded by the obama biden government, when the p.l.f. were in power in addis ababa, arguably, there's a grain of truth in that line of reasoning because some of the people now president elect biden, who were very much working with the leaders, specifically the late prime minister and the p.l.f. strongmen. now we worry about the continuation of this property p.l.f. policy by biden's, president elect biden's for a foreign policy team. but why on earth this, as you allege, susan rice support a government in ethiopia, accused by so many n.g.o.s of war crimes. and why would anyone be interested in

catalyzing? tens of thousands reported refugees fleeing right now to sudan from this conflict. well, continuation of a cynical attitude in practice because on one hand, as you know, they tout democracy and liberty. on the other hand, they support dictatorship like that he'd be left to take their shoes for 27 years, plus personal relationship. was this people developed by the likes of rise and others was in the previous obama administration, but is not limited to the obama administration officials, but other friends of the left both in europe and usa are now going to go up to mit, you know, to, to to give this horse narrative that the current conflict was

started by the federal government, britain and the united states both said they're helping. ethiopia, the tsunami government, and the haile mariam desa land government with aid money to help the poor of these countries. you say this money did not go to those people of the former chairman of that u.p.a. left who has kept their execution here as though they are senior military commander . now, you know, just some of our in one interview, martin clarke, i believe off the b.b.c. . he has to say that they are used back then. the t.p.a. left in the eighty's used a 2 to finance their aid, kelly. that was their mark for the firman and the refugees to enrich themselves and later even claimed that they killed the seed money that made

them you know, that enabled them to build an empire economic empire under the name effort in dominance. really for rehabilitation of a multibillion dollar conglomerate that dominated the japan economy during their tenure for 27 years. there you have to see that it is all the laws of your state. there are total domination of the top 10 economy in politics for the past 27 years until 2018 then reform ayers, which was launched by the pm rb, who came to the in 2018 means that they will lose all the privilege and the monopoly and edge of money they exercise throughout, ethiopian, in every domain of national life, from economy politics, security to defense establishment. they had the lion's share. so this conflict has to be seen in the context of what the tea p.l.f.

is and mind you. they also from the very beginning, they can't rule it. you as a minority group that represents only 6 percent of the population. if they can rule ethiopia under their domination, hedge many as fine. if they cannot, then they will discover the g.o.p. and a greater take, right? separate other prospects of a grey in separatist state being created some kind of shades of south sudan when obama was in power. right now it doesn't seem to create a separate decries state would much area less because they don't tell the majority of support among the ground people. i very much doubt and they are militarily they have been losing ground about in the turner was done

from this point. they are encircled from many directions, doesn't mean that the operation that the federal government is conducting to, to enforce the rule of roll in ethiopia. and bring this criminal struggle leaders of the to p.l.f. to test justice will be over within a day or 2. now, that's not likely, but i think the odds are against them except some of their international supporters on the ground are losing any ground war. either the concern of the federal government and most just as is that with men and civilian casualties as much as possible, we have to avoid civilian casualties and to grant people must not suffer. so end of this operation as soon as possible. but you know, war is unpredictable. these people have been fighting for 40 years and they

have, you know, 2 years. they are prepared for 2 years and raising 250000 special forces and militia, what country in the world that original government would raise this number of force quarter of a 1000000 fighters. so that poses a challenge going forward, but i think they are overwhelmed right now, and they're losing ground in many fronts of interest to marriage. i want to get on to the world health organization in a 2nd because obviously some accusations about the head of the w.h.o. been very, very briefly. infamous thing sanctions by the european union in the united states against eritrea. do you think that what the to gray in the people's liberation front may do, may exacerbate any tension between asmara in eritrea and hadassah?

or is that peace locked in? does a variable question jest suit is a hole the strike us tomorrow with 3 or 4 rockets, missiles. but fortunately it's landed in areas it was not you know, better by civilians and they didn't hit that target. they intend to do it and intention, the objective is to drive after they are into this conflict. saw original eyes of conflict. make it right, cartwright, so on and so that the international pressure, international community will be mounted on the federal government for a cease fire. and negotiation that will really strengthen their arm to once again come and dominate the political space. that's their agenda. so after adam fall for destruct, it responded by saying not so not so great was bizarre rockets, they're not going to even, you know, respond with

a statement from a threat. well, there's certainly no signs of a divestment by the big funders from the global south. let alone china, eritrea of course, famous for being the fastest growing economy in the world a while back. just finally, what are you going to tell us about ted ross? what he, because he is the head of the world health organization does go anywhere, all having coronavirus. we have 50000 dead here in britain there quarter a 1000000 and rising dead in the united states. and the w.h.o. boss, you believe is implicated in this, in this long going history, a long running history. very good question or a good question because the statements and some information emerging, it implicates search of girls are down on to be working on behalf of the t.p.a., left lobbying regional governments,

also the international community. and this gives credence to his role that he was using as many out there are working in many international organizations to, to use his offices to lobby and benefit if ideas and destructive agenda pretty, p.l.f. where you as a senior member member of the exotic committee of was the p.l.f. and the ruling a pediatrician, or saw 1000 miles minister and the foreign minister of europe. so through than 17 years, you know what he has been doing. on behalf of the t.p.a. left and their agenda. during his tenure as official and senior party member, well, we can't verify any of the claims we have invited. the w.h.o. directed rahsaan. we invite him on again. and of course, there is a news blackout into gray at the moment in amman's,

and i can thank you and them in the like as we need to be earlier. and that to finish here will be back on saturday, 20 years to the day, the florida supreme court granted us democratic presidential candidate al gore's request to keep the presidential recounts going after the votes were contested in the 2000 u.s. election. despite the recounts later being dubbed unconstitutional paving, the way for iraq war architect george w. bush to take the white house until then you can join the underground by following up on you tube, twitter. facebook, instagram, a sample results of the u.s. election cycle. that surprised many, there was no blue wave in the g.o.p. winning is gains for all across the board. both parties have deep internal divisions, and the court is in both parties based populist challenges. this is the perfect recipe for a political deal like it was always in the boom,

but most actually like big city bright lights, huge opportunities and many dangers because they were used to cook to blow the lid to it's also a city where up to $300000.00 crimes are committed every year goes for the full nationally, but in the new most, it's filled to the reserve least one police officer for every 200 residents in russia's capital lost on the english. i think you missed most. we all put them out of my tree that i will not go with the wind up boy soon. or the truth is i'm going to mostly seemed wrong. but all roles just don't call me old yet to say

proud these days. because as a kid and engaged because betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. during the vietnam war, u.s. forces also bombs neighboring laos. it was a secret war. and for years, the american people did not know how much it is officially announced. heavily bombed country per capita. human history, millions of unexploded bombs still in danger lives in this small agricultural country. jordyn wieber went on to another topic that even today, kids in laos full victims of bombs dropped decades ago. is the u.s. making amends for the tragedy and help to the people need in that little land on

german police fire water cannon. this protest movements refused to back down in the capital at this pos as a new deal to increase its slow down crowds. violence on the streets of paris today was france debates, a bill to ban publishing images to police with intent to harm the correspondent was caught up in the trouble. we all cells quote, forcibly shocked out by the police,

my cameraman grabbed by offices. while he was filming.