alley the house says, how does seems like an absolutely sound well done to him, amazing career. and finally for dos had, i says, i heard of him before and saw his to photograph. and i see him speaking and shading his exit memories of the past. great man in detail. now over to alex with professor of how that university, i met martin, president of the phyllis schlafly equal society and author of the conservative case for trump. to come to you. professor, you must be pretty pleased when the jaws biden come along. hottest looking pretty presidential in the, in the podium there, think they're holding. they think they're going to, going to going into ministration. come january, are you celebrating there? when howard university? i have to admit, i am. i don't know how to express to you what it feels like to have a bi president of united states from howard university, the great black woman, the 1st woman of asian descent, and then the 1st is to include black college graduates being the vice president,

me the tremendous all of a tremendous field. the community of black i would graduate worldwide in all this and not the result you were looking for in the election. but as the president is looking, not very presidential, this reluctance to concede, defeat makes him look like a bit of a bad loser of this, that not. well alex, you know, we have this great system here in america that we have had for a couple 100 years. it works really well. and when it comes to our elections, we have a process that plays out. there's no that the word concession doesn't appear in the constitution or the rule of law. it's more, as you say, a tradition. there's major issues here and it's coming to a head in the next 3 or 4 weeks, because every mention we're celebrating, i'm celebrating at every level in america, the republican vision of positive america 1st one. so we'll get to the bottom of it if the rule of law and everything works out, then you'll be ushering in president biden. but i think we have

a long way to go and what we're seeing more and more is alex on a scale. we've never seen or at least seen interference in the election that we're going to get to the bottom of it. so it's going to be very important for america. and now we're looking forward to the bow out of gold and president bush as he became a contesting, the the hiding chads and florida. and me even managed to go through that with folks looking presidential and they were even in office of the type. do you think donald trump is looking, the stately unpresidential in the way that he's probably challenging the result in state after state? what seems well to flow. they haven't, i mean, maybe alex, but out where it's 20 years later in terms of the coverage, al gore was vice president should be said. and so he was hanging on and hang on, hang on for $37.00 days. and al gore only conceded when the supreme court of florida told him and the u.s. supreme court made a decision while the florida legislature was in session to choose electors because

al gore wouldn't concede. let me say this, i think you pointed to something alex, which i appreciate about r.t. and you, we in america have never seen the media do what they're doing right now. there is a full on effort to brainwash the american people to concede you're a bad person. if you don't concede, even though 73000000 americans voted for john trump. and they're wondering, why did philadelphia have, you know, joe biden had greater turnout in philadelphia than obama or clinton? that doesn't sound right. might be right, but let's get to the bottom of it. so how he looks is a function of the media in america. and the world not what the truth is and america doesn't. we don't play by the looks we play by the constitution and the rule of law . it's worked well for a couple 100 years. i think it will work well for a few more months and then a couple, 100 years after that 1st gun as in and right, some in president some just during that 20 years ago, fighting the case to the end,

he's entitled to, to fight the case to the end before he, he finally makes a concession, ave, a professor of a political studies, you know, these things says may just doing what's been done before. there's so many ways that that's not right, that it's hard for me to remember them to take them down for you, but let me try a little bit. so the 1st thing that's happening is that the situation in florida is to do with the fact that this election is close. and they have automatic recount in the same way that georgia has currently. and then there are questions about some problems in the way that the old elections were organized. and so this is absolutely not the same thing because there is no question about the way election was organized. there's no question about how the ballots were structured. there's been many changes since the year 2000. turnout is up across the united states in red states and blue states, a conservative rural areas, and democratic city that's up everywhere. joe biden got the most votes, so i'm happy to see this play out. i'm happy to see both count and recount because

at the end of the day, joe biden got the most votes, not just among individual americans, but he will have them in the electoral college no matter what happens in these places where people are arguing about the margins potentially being off by one or 200 both we're talking about a 1000000 or 4000000 vote difference between those and we're talking about does who to vote in the electoral college. so again, i say, if you want to count a recount, you know, added, i'm sure that joe biden will be the winner. and so let's try and rise above the legal arm, wrestling a look at some of the fundamentals here. it doesn't professor got to have a point if it was for both the publicans and the democrats, but the joe biden, the moves very clearly in the popular vote is not really a good thing for american politics. shows a much higher level of participation in an election, and people started by from less than a few months time. what to say? well, i actually went on to something here to have a messy,

but some of the election there was people wanted to, to get to the polls or to vote. the state was not a good thing for both sides. if the american people don't trust what they're seeing, i think you can give them some credit for saying, hey, make sure you count every legal vote, you know, elections and campaigns. alex in america, you have a certain trend that they go on and you may wish that you're a great candidate in the democrat party, but you are losing on election day down ballot. nancy pelosi lost an amazing number of seats. she promised she would win, and the polls said she would win. the senate was supposed to flip the polls said so schumer promised they lost the only place. there was a problem was the place where we see very irregular voting patterns from for joe biden. let's get to the bottom of it, but pardon me, if you say, if americans are a little skeptical of being told by the media or being told by academia to trust us, we know better. we'll stick to the document, the constitution and the rule of law, and when we get to the bottom of that,

we'll accept the results. so professor ground, how do you get fall and rise above these arguments in the us. they plea for you have and how do the family and trenched views that we see in the medicare? how do they start the ball for you in the lead of to kill it, communicate to us from your perspective and politics. but how do you reach out and get a sort of dialogue that can get through the political system and try to break through some of these entrenched battlements that we see the snow? you know, the sort of honest answers that i don't know we, on this show are having a conversation this world away from each other. we have different notions of truth . and i think that the notions of truth that i have are based on what i have learned from years of study of the entire history of the united states of america is based on our document. for example, voting is a thing that is managed at the state level, not managed in the constitution is something that is managed through the state legislature. and so if we continue to live in

a world where we have these very different notions of the world, we will continue to have a polarized nation. and i don't know what we can do in a polarized nation, where people are unwilling to deal with books and science and reason. and so i think that again is not a good way to be. and it's not a go away for our democracy to exist in a lonely again, as we had these media outlets. and these talking heads creating scenarios where people are arguing at each other instead of trying to find common ground, we're going to always have. and i, fred, you cough up the concept of case for trump. it's not my political inclination, let's put it that way. there was some very coherent argument for that, but i wonder if the arguments are somehow disconnected from the past and i was of donald trump. i mean, some same chalabi, but she can see the quality offer your dream for the country to come about

something come out of this will the conservative case can be separated from the cover incumbent president and present it perhaps in a way which will assess dial. yeah, look, i don't, i don't think that trump ism is a thing. i think it's, i call it america 1st america pro america movement. i grew too, but we embraced a different kind of, of movement when we took on china, it wasn't just because the corporate interests alex on wall street wanted it. they didn't. in fact, they want biden to win because they think biden will go back to trading with china . but we had a president that put people that were different from the a republican traditional party in there. when joe biden says, let's unite, we're going to unite, you know that in the last 2 weeks of the campaign, alex joe biden ran an ad that called donald trump and his supporters. nazis, do you know how hard it is alex to? i've been called dumb. i've been called, you know, not smart. i've been called incorrect when you call us nazis and then you try to unite us. i'm not against joe biden as

a man. i am against the leadership that refuses to make room for all of us. he's dividing us, he's not uniting us, and the american people feel it a lot less the professor ground, as you probably know, a football and past the run ins with president trump in the course and elsewhere. but as the something which indicates that despite what people might think about as style isn't qualified, may think of a style. he 70 has appealed to a new constituency full of the republican party. no, the democrats thinking long of temp, isn't that something they're going to have to understand them and respond to in future political contests? yeah, absolutely. right. i think that, for example, this uptick in the number of hispanic voters who supported donald trump, the uptick in the number of black voters who supported donald trump is going to be important for the democratic party to figure out the support for the democratic party is still well over 85 percent in the black community, so it still a simple majority. but i think that the democratic party organizes itself as one

that has more the net and so far, and we want to understand what happened. this conversation that we're having about feeling like people who are professors or otherwise educated is something that we have to talk about to. the person on the other side of this conversation has more books in his background than i do. and his is an author in the same way that i am. and so i suspect that he has lots of education. i don't think in any way that he's that he's ignorant or incorrect or any of these other things. i think that we have different ways of discussing the issues. there are many smart people in conservative circles. clearly they're smart because they have strategies. they went down ballot races. i think that we have many things to figure out on the democratic side. i think many of those things include the identity politics, like what's happening with hispanic voters and black voters. but i think that there is a whole fundamental disconnect about the role of information in our society and about these ideas that liberal elite run the world and look down and know that other people i'm a 1st generation college graduate. my mother did not go to college in no way would

i ever turn up my nose at a person who didn't go to school because i know what that's like. that's where i'm raised in the successes. i have come off the backs of people who sacrificed for me . and so again, i think that we need to get to a place in american politics where we can see each other as human and not a demon. and if we get to that place, we'll do better for our society and of the united states and for the entire global community successes on both very welcome to commit your respective viewpoints, malik's aman. jill, thank you so much for joining me. thank you. thank you. join us after the break when alex will be getting the latest lowdown on the u.s. election from leading world expert. i'm topologists, we do this. credo

trenchard simpson, excessive babying, and alarming everyone. mindlessly. actually what that means is we end up picking solutions that cost a lot, but actually drink very little. it's just a kind of fuel gets used instead of solutions that would fix global warming was always on the bull, but it was just a big city, bright lights, new job, but you know, jeans and many dangers of the wrist at the blatant it's all simplicity when up 230-0000 crimes are committed to happen before the last one, but it will get your mosque. it's filled to the reserve least one police officer think every 200 residents in russia's capital boston. now wish i didn't use notes, we all put the truth that they were not going to authorise knowing

that there would have to most welcome back such as the force of donald trump's personality. that politics in america revolved around his twitter feed. but the electoral map shows deep underlying changes behind the political divisions. alex is joined by meeting on topologist. we davis to explain what is going on. wade davis, welcome back to the alex salmond show. thanks for having me. alex again. in the 1st half of the program of to start a debate between professor grant of howard university and ed martin of the, the eagles of respected them. and rough particularly commentators from the left the right. it was pretty fiery stuff that deep part of the,

the divisions post-election in american society. you know, i think alex, you hit the nail on the head there. the thing that haunted me about the results was not who won or who didn't win, but how close the margins were. and the haunting thing for those of us who are outside of the united states and then clued so majority of the world lookin in askew hands at a man who has a record that we don't even need to. once again, articulate donald trump in terms of his violation of every norm i want to start. but, but the bottom line is that a guy like trump wouldn't have won 5 percent of the vote in a place like canada. and yet in the united states, you know, he came within 800000 votes, spread across the states from earning a 2nd term in office. and even now he is making threats to run in 2024. so, you know, you have this very haunting between realities and it's extension weighted by this

propensity of the democratization of opinion, you know, battered morning and one of the great american senators said you're in trouble to your own opinions, but not your own facts. woods almost. now people feel they are entitle to their own facts and they simply make them up. i don't know what the future holds at a critical time in american history. if this isn't between to do house of the american reality is not bridge in some way, but we have, well, let me try something which i find very difficult passively, but that unless i'm going to make an attempt and the fairness of president trump couldn't that be argued fosli of that he, however, he's done it as mallets to appeal to the republican party, didn't previously appeal to. and secondly, hasn't he? and these attitude, no kind of replicating what the democrats there than attempts of questioning the

legitimacy of his presidency. basically, right for the last 4 years and the famous off the donald doesn't the something in the argument that he must have something going for. well, i think you're right. he certainly has appeal, obviously, you know, i guess and get back to the numbers. but i think the most haunting thing about these results was that at the end of the day, alex, it really all came down to race. this is what's haunting 58 percent of whites voted for trump. the vast majority of people of color voted for the democrats. and what, at the base of all of this, is a certain part of the society saying stop the world we want to get off. you know, we want to go back to an america before our jobs are shipped overseas. we want to go back to america. when the family meant this, we want to go back to a time when, you know, we saw people that looked like us in the streets of our city. you know, never forget that race remains tragically. the story of america. you know, it,

we think of, say, the era of slavery as sort of a distant era when cotton was king. but no, you know, cotton was the 1900 century what? oil was the 20th century, american wealth and prosperity was built, this sort of closed civil war myth. that it was sort of a quaint but fading economic model that was in the end was going to fizzle way because it was inefficient. simply not the case. the wealth of america was built on african labor black labor. and this continues to this day. and i think that's what really haunted us as canadians, you know, if you think by contrast, certainly, alex, you well know. i mean, it was your people that filled our country of canada. i mean the scots see irish, the welsh, and so on. right? we were a little white society in the day, essentially in the, in the year that i was born to day, fully, half of the residents of our biggest city toronto, aren't just of

a nonwhite ethnicity. they were physically born outside of canada. and yet somehow we have managed to, in a very positive way, absorb the multitudes of the world, flourish in richer kaname, and create a much more interesting place to live without resistance. whereas in the united states, what you're seeing is the ongoing legacy of one of the other cardinal rules, which was in the american south. the one thing that to a great extent, the exploited core, white working class white trash as it used to be called the one thing they had going for themselves, is that they weren't black. and some of that is just lingering in this haunting divide of race. that is the underbelly of these electoral results. if touched on to a very fundamental things, let's take a moment of a fuss, the divisions within american society. and then 2nd, they mannequins position us there. what else?

preeminent power will fund the challenge. so that the faces of the medic in society, if a particular lot of them haven't caught anything really be done at to bridge the presidential town and then this job by them going to be able to make significant moves to, to reconcile these polar offices. i think that's the big question, isn't it? i mean, we all know the presidents for all their power and resume and authority can only do so much. i mean, i think there's some very practical things you could do in america to cool down the rhetoric to cool down the entire organism, you know, bring back the fairness doctrine was demanded on public and on communication channels, radio in particular events, knowledge. and you had to have some kind of balance of opinion and create some kind of nationals service that would bring young men and women from all parts back to connection with each other in some doing something bigger than themselves. you know, eliminate the war on drugs. you realize because of the war on drugs,

there are more americans with arrest records, then there are with college degrees. you know, here's an interesting statistic in the last 20 years that there were the use of the word in all published literature has gone up 80 percent. i don't quote me on that, but the trend is that and it's reflective of this world back to morning hans comment if i believe it, it's true. you know, people, are it feeling free to reinvent their own realities? and that's a very dangerous situation when the truth itself becomes relative. and the position of the individual is, if i believe it, it's true that an old professor,, some tallish of s., they would have a time out all i believe in an essay score that out of the wall of hope. everything unless s.e.'s what you believe. but look at america as its possession as the preeminent. what'll much of the tensions we see in the medic and political system of jews to that position of preeminence?

perhaps the american as you put it, coming to a close. the bottom line is that a country that has been served by a certain myth. the, remember, myths are not just old stories are kind of moral shards, you know, they're aspirational, you know, no country lives up to its mythology, but we sort of aspire to see our selves in that. and america has had in the 20th century myth of zone exceptionalism. but all of that is frankly falling apart . people steal it on the ground when their jobs are disappearing. one of the things that was interesting, alex, in that rolling stone piece, you mentioned the reaction that i had was you know, it or complete nerve, 362, social media, millions. the media. there was national tsunami of reaction and the reaction was twofold. it was either kind of deep sadness that what i was suggesting might be the state of merica and kind of quiet,

earnest desire to do something about it. but the other reaction right there was preston hearing was vicious massage and vicious comments against women. and the article, of course, is nothing one way or another about when the night i found that bewildering. i mean, truly awful language and then i suddenly thought, well, you know, maybe what's going on in part is that for a certain cohort, at least. and i'm not saying that everybody in the trumped amp or voters is in this cohort. but there was certainly a cohort of working men who with limited education, could get a job, buy a house, buy a car, support, a family, and so on. and that world over, and those factory jobs are long gone and they watched them go. they saw it. globalization meant in their lives and that the years of that transformation economically also corresponded the years in which women were breaking the glass ceiling and gays moving from the closet to the altar. people of color from the

woodshed literally to the white house. and i, and i just had the sense that all of those trends are sort of conflated by a certain cohort of the american public. so that there's sort of, you know, they took my jobs, it was a women who did it. i mean literally that, that is the only way i can account for being called things like menstrual discharge in some of these e-mails which were so ad hominum, so personal, so vicious, so angry. and so irrational in some sense. let's send a hopeful note wait watching, they almost said the acceptance speech of the vice president. i mean, it could have a month not to be a little faster that she described that as a woman of color from a variety of, assessed and coming forth. and with joe biden, against the baclofen, has been a pretty disruptive period as a lot of china,

thief of the resilience of america to shine through and stuff prize to solve if the extent of progress that could be made. absolutely, and look, i mean, in my opinion, now it's all these trends at the store and some people are signs of progress. imagine the 1950 rebel golden era. if you are a woman, if you are black, if you're gay person or, or if you're any kind of person outside of a certain cool park, we've made huge progress and i watched those beads and with tears in my are is not because i'm our and our democrat, because i saw the return of decency i saw my father on stage. i saw my father in law senator charles percy, republican, all of his life on stage. i saw the decency of gerald ford who came into a moment of enormous crisis after watergate and put his whole political career. not just in jeopardy, but in new it was over the minute he pardoned nixon. and i thought as a young student, the time it was a horrible thing to do. i now as an adult,

you know, look back and think it was a wisest thing he possibly could have done we and to move on. and america has been able to do that. it's found the better angels of its nature. you know, there were, there were dark periods in american past both historically in terms of the civil war, the depression, the crisis of world war 2, but also a dark period. joseph mccarthy and it all it took was one good man in that critical and famous moment to say, in public on camera, have you no shame? and the question really for us, is to ask ourselves, does the very notion of shame still exist in america? are there lingering elements of decorum, of decency, of honor, one praise for the sake, both of american, the world that there are. and i think with joe biden, we have the best chance of seeing that revealed in the presidency. exceptional insight. thank you so much for joining me once again on the alex on until. thanks

so much alex, i love to be with you. and i don't majority in america and a rather large one around the world. well, well satisfied with the idea of donald trump as a one term president, yet it may be that they've all breathed a sigh of relief too soon. they don't, may be on his way out for now. but trump isn't as a political force looks for multiple still. indeed, the don't as a bookies favorite to lead the republican ticket himself in 4 years time, was importantly, the election laid bare the underlying changes in american society, which will dictate the political future. the new team of joe biden, kamel, a harness will attempt to bind up the wounds of the election and indeed of the nation. however, the task will be by no means easy, no short for nag, hammadi fess up and all that the shoe is good by 50, i mean hope to see you all again next week.

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