really nice lead rockley in travel. i'm with you, michael rather than a dad and suggest that they would provide an almost full bipartisan our nation or child's policies. because if you look at joe biden's least promises, especially in the domestic front, they really look like we style the paste role charms label and the worst of what he needed last michigan's national drape. what sherron you for all that have repudiated an optimist. carrots have the democrats really rejected because that's, that's our policy. yeah. if you would like to disagree, i think you go say see a real shift. i mean, the problem is donald trump was of course and still is that he's not a real democrat if keely authoritarian tendencies. we see that in his refusal to leave the white house to concede the election to joe biden, though it's pretty clear that the u.s.

lost the election. even republican senator. now isn't there an indian style of behavior asking, you know, absent of policy? yeah, exactly. and so joe biden has announced he will convene a summit for democracy, so he wants to rally americans and us round table again to really make them more coherent to improve the relationship, particularly the c.e.o. of p. and ls suno and the relations resume made to relations was in the e.u. back if straight he had a very hostile, almost relationship to international fox. so biden will have a totally different policy if he appreciates the value of the island. and in the whole, he seems to realize that the united states is a lot stronger to get its allies rather than to go it alone. and under and the trump, we saw a more unilateral america going it alone policy. and i think that will change

fundamentally in one of your recent analysis of foreign policy. you single out its 3 primary strands disengaging the us from local politics, does deigning allies, you just retreated. that point right now. and the friend didn't autocratic leader, he's now naturally as a russian, as perhaps in your view as a shill for one sex arc radical leader. i want to ask you specifically, what does it mean defragging autocratic leaders? well, we have a very disconcerting color system under trumps. that for example, trump became very close to saudi arabian crown prince. and you know that the crown prince was at least implicated in the murder, also generalists. and by everybody. then trump did not say a word about it instead of that he continued having very good relations, also personal relations with members of this administration. saying also it did not criticize what was going on in europe regarding hungry and poland and the presently,

or to credit policies of these 2 countries. cus, you know, it's condemned. it is trying to do something about it. but trump has kept quiet though, saying that he would see that and that i read that proposal. r.c. said to be equating public statements rhetoric to policy and has studied them foreign policy in the united states. and our start as, i'm sure you teach your students that words are not the same as actions. absolutely . bob like statements don't make up a policy, in fact, and those that you will be diametrically opposed to one another. so again, let's not look at public statements. i read there is a major difference in style in persona and character, but those are personal things and asking you about the substantive change in the course of the united states. and again, in policy terms, because at least in the liberal circles, they don't love using this befriending. autocratic leader is cliche, but what does it mean in adelaide? people terms big, all of that policy demeans,

of that policy and the possible outcomes of that policy in that is give up on, you know, for example, as i mentioned, the summit off democracy, of course, people where the wind is blowing in the united states. and he built her in order to sell your bill supports the e.u. regarding the policy towards poland in hungary, while trump has indirectly, but be keeping quiet by expressing syntheses as expressed support for these people . and that of course involved. and you don't, you won't see that still in bold meant and of having set of course also realize the strategic relationship, the united states has to sortie arabia. it will not true saudi arabia into an enemy and no one would expect that. and the other hand, you know, not let the crown prince get away with the sort of character something about these women was present that it was in office together with president obama. they tell

him that allowed saudi arabia to launch one of the most murderous, bloodiest wars there is, has still continuing right now. and i understand that, that there is a certain that resonance about the absolute horrific nature of that one killing. but under biden and obama, hundreds of thousands of such killings have been taking place. can you really put down this? so your ministry of their coverage of the wall of a human conducted for saudi arabia and of those who start to do it while obama was in power. and it's certainly this one. it's a black, the obama administration, the only one. i don't know, not saying that that's one of them, and i find that they didn't do anything about it. but biden was, of course, vice president. he did have an influence obama could if i say in the end he did possum's a guy who took the decisions that clearly was president different now. and of course also in the last few years. so you merican statements have to look good for

what's going on in that part of the world. how to start troy has become how terrible it is. the human cost has been so i would expect to reverse that course and not too soon for saudi arabia or yes said so, and of course us mil got to see their quality issues and they say things during combat. it's therefore up when these statements, but i would expect to abide introduced so it clearly is more in favor of human rights. for example, in general. then for example, president trump would never even use a term of human rights. well, you didn't hear my next question, and i think it's partially ties with that. my questions about your choice of vocabulary that is befriending the autocratic leader, is because it's true that donald trump had a more pragmatic, last moralistic approach to foreign policy. and i think it's high time where the will to debate how we define morality in international relations. what is good and

what is bad? what are the limits? the legitimate uses of military power, so that we don't see the carnage, like we saw in yemen in libya, in iraq, all of which were born out of good moralistic intentions. repeat again. and my question to you is don't you think that by using these liberal catchphrases befriending, which is essentially an attack by association, you're out in a way, col flashing the need for the world to have that conversation. and if you, if you look around the world is really crying out for it because all the major problems we have right now, refugees, internally displaced pandemics immigration, the riser for a populist. they can all be tied to the war. it's a band louis. i know, and i think, i think you can agree that human rights are something to do was killing people and killing people is always a bad idea. and that applies to all countries be. it's the united states or russia, or china or other great. you know, geyer,

getting involved or stopping was pushing was annexing. countries that are trying to develop incursions in countries is a bad thing. and biden is a case here, the 1st time in years, in proportion rather an example of the public because i feel the only sense you russians are, as i'm always there early, or a lot have now to signal i was lost there. you cannot compare something like that. so you look, let's say an operation in libya and which again is the same manner of analysis. you can't compare, compare the killing of croissants. you have the bloody war in vietnam, and that the obama administration has oversaw. so the question is, who is really moral and these in a row? no, i mean, saudi arabia has not just gilchrist showed you that of course, very active in yemen and in other conflicts around the world. you now do a final round of the ministries and yeah, we might get the money horse and united states needs to do something about that.

and biden has that he would do so whether belief in whether he will follow up. we don't know costs you will not be a perfect president. he will not fulfill all of our human rights expectations. and they are not, of course, strategic considerations. also, oil considerations that any president and it pretty should as to take into regatta . however, the president trump was a very ruthless politician who only looked at strategic. it's just, he did not consider human rights at all. and i think this will change. definitely, that doesn't mean that the united states now will pursue a policy that is exclusively oriented along human rights. like this might be nice, this might be a perfect scenario, is unlikely to have. professor lars eller is for all his recklessness. donald trump has launched a single war sucks. sometimes i mean, when you can be a cunt pierre, you know how many human lives are lost out of concern for human rights. sometimes

you may think that perhaps it's safer for the world to the american since you put that aside. but those are the voters. i'm not defending in. i'm actually, i'm not buying into this american habit of looking at their parents as i think this is, there's a strong strand in the russian foreign policy of actually looking at the results, not what they call you, but what they do at the end of the day and whether it is because if you come to my country and kill my child out of good intentions, i don't care what your intentions were. i can i care about my son being lost, or you can have a brief look at on the trumps policies. and we haven't launched this war, that's the end of it isn't true. i don't disapprove said, of course he hasn't, but still the world is a no mess. you know, we have relations with russia and become better. you have relations with china, very tense, very constituents, u.s. relations with iran, very conceptual, even last week,

a few days ago the dollar tranter pound really consider you have 2 transatlantic alliance, which go to interest in a mess that all happened under donald trump. this, these are not good developments. i drunk to that that he did not launch a major war. that's another lie. there's been because there is a huge difference between the water ports which he was waging and the real war the claims lives. anyway, professor lars, we have to take a very short break right now we will go back to the spirited conversation after a few moments that you join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics or business i'm show business,

i'll see you there. i was always on the ball, but the statue was a big city. bright like you jump, but you know, many dangers of the risk that the video is going to blow the lid to. it's also a city where up 230-0000 crimes are committed every other building the last one, but it will be the new mosque. it's filled to the reserve least one police officer for every $200.00 residents in russia's capital cost on the list. i didn't think it will make me think i will not go to a toy single because it was a big deal with him to most

welcome back to worlds apart with plows lara's professor at the university of north carolina at chapel hill professor, just before the break we were discussing the aremu, the commitment of the united states to human rights and democracy, and you, joe biden, spread it out when that mentioned that he was one of the very few people within the obama administration who was against the whole endeavor. and he actually, you know, we repurpose trumps all the rhetoric for and in the endless wars in biden's terms. it's there for our wars which have cost the united states untold blood and treasure

you forgot to mention though, that many of those wars were either launched directly or indirectly through by the night if they did. but anyway, do you think the biden administration will be ready for some kind of like, why and alice is of how this american leadership is supposed to be if they reinstituted on to their walls, because as i'm sure you wouldn't remember me there, well in 2021 is very different from the world, even in 2016. you know, most american administrations spent that come into office. they consider all their foreign policy relations or as a world. 'd that is usually an exercise at ministration dust, and i'm sure joe biden ministration bill do that as well. what you will see, and that is perhaps the major difference of the trumpet. ministration is a more predictable and more reliable, foreign policy, elyse and froze. know what to expect from the white house policy. it won't change

every 2 days. so something like that bill actually, i think also be predicted by those countries who comes and sells a so-so of america, including perhaps russia and china and saudi arabia who will be in the middle. it will not be regarded as a foe. it will not be regarded as a close friend, for example. so read new book. we can expect a new approach. and i think that maybe a new approach should try it sour relations in a girls away from that heated every day media circus, a tree soul, and a president trump. in the end, as i said before, opt for a president by bill not to be a perfect president, no president can be evil, have strategic considerations to consider from his point. a few. from an american point of view, we juma, priest, china, russia, all other countries to some extent. but i think they will also, he will also make an attempt and that is probably what he has learned in over 50

years and policy. if that isn't a good idea to find common ground was countries you may, no, it has a best relationship, was talking about russia, the renewal of the human stocks. treaty, i think would be a great stock for having something like a reset with russia, interest, china, they'll sell other considerations like cooperation on climate change, for example, cooperation, maybe on afghanistan on the middle east. so that the areas you can find countries who are not necessarily friendly was each other, can cooperate for a later candidate. not all circumstances. you can find that unless you are every bit as german idlewild and meet your receipt from the statements of the, by the n.s.a. mission and that, you know, a lot of the abstract language about human rights and democracy. and there are lots and lots of practical issues in the walls that i want all the names and lot of warmings migrates. and robert mind what charity or that dumps and all

about the american use of democracy. but the cooperation around those issues get more active by one side's ideologic wash, actuary. do you think the biden administration or am up for that sound? engage those countries. glen's all respect, especially when it, sooner than one base that over the last 20 years about russia, about exams, i don't know how they can do that. serious. i mean, that goes both ways. no politicians tend to say a lot about each other. and when that, then you're going to marry that enemy, act it out, right? that are let some if they don't talk in a similar way. and of course, you know, byron is well known for having countless set to applaud him. if to do that, he looked into his soul and their duty to his eyes and didn't find a soul. that is, i'm sure, a room, i can smell it,

going its own repeating it drier. let me just remind our viewers that elsa came was great, you 1000 allowed that counts as against running for president. he began speaking about interference in a country's electoral nady. each year happened to get very little history and very much trouble is. i mean, you can't cross talk about that into funes in each of those countries. and each of us domestic policy, russian descent from nation come paints 2016 to result in 20 a kind of way and have been concerned. but i don't want to go into that. what i want to say is replications actually meet privately in a room or at a summit, then election campaigns off to rooms full of the media rigid. they also have to take into consideration for that message or, you know, it says on both sides. they usually kind of say not the remarks, all unpleasant red mosque, they usually go quickly out of the window. and i would be very surprised if clinton

and joe biden didn't have a good conversation. the 3 of that say i'm pleasant, right, to rape. and if they wouldn't try to find common ground, like for example, extending the new start treaty. and that could be the basis of perhaps, you know, a reset. but for reset, as the saying goes, it needs 2 to tango, all the americans are left to give something. but the russians are going to have to give something at a concessions. and you know, that would be nice if something like that happened a professional, or as i have no doubt in my mind that the russians have long been writing for to have it all out. but i have grave doubts that the biden administration is evil of that, especially if you are blocking action before and how can you post based on it of democracies on washington to reach your commitment to america is that al democracy and human rights are one camp. and whole region and dictator app and if you were a journalist and deal bit here. on the other hand, i mean all that all politicians,

especially on their liberal living at rates, but not 0. might well insolvent database of their boat under grievous that it is quite possible to try to attempt to have a reset with dictators and the world autocrats and the world be the cold boot to know if he should bring all of it to press even with the most korean leader, without accepting all of their policies, all the methods that is excellent to the skillfulness of to promise and politics that you try to fit to really do create the areas you can agree on and can decide the areas you define. and i think joe biden is probably intending to do that just for the sake of american foreign policy, clearly is an american president, but also for the sake of having the most the greatest stability in the world. well, here he really intends to do that and that, you know, the democrats are nasty,

like you resample. and as, as a candidate or as the president will change the still not national conversation. i think he has to keep that the whole in mind when dealing with other country leaders, because i think if he were a national problems, but now going to be treated as morally inferior. is that our great but you look at america, the best of politics, right? now i think the tone has already changed when you see how biden really acts to what is going on in the white house with this president trump right now, he doesn't condemn him. you know, of course the to criticism, but he doesn't sway opinion. he doesn't become unreasonable, it doesn't become imaging, i mean the other day without me, or maybe sometimes, i know that i did some credit for the way he talks about it. so it's a very difficult situation right now for him. it is a very measured approach, but whatever you may think privately, i don't know, he has told how he comes across this measure. i would expect such a measure,

at least rhetorically, to also find him to do express when he talks to foreign leaders. be it france, opiates, of autocrats, of the world. and i think that's a good basis for stopping a conversation. i'm not promising, and i don't know that that conversation will always be successful, but it would be very surprised if a biden administration wouldn't at least try to. you also have to remember that it was the obama administration who tried to reset this russia at the beginning, or they have termed in the end, it didn't succeed. we all know that. but i think that at least strike at the beginning. and i would say that biden will probably try to even hard up and hopefully also more successfully that you mentioned this summit of democracy. is it or what do you mean is the matter with the big dollars at the gathering? well, getting shared. yeah, i mean even lied to that body of being here. i mean, i got to see the putin book get it invited,

a concept that the chinese president will get it in, but i would assume, and i really don't know, it has been left fairly debate. it has been mentioned several times in this opticals and his election platform, but it hasn't been filled with much concrete substance that is going to be done. i'm sure the next few months. but i would imagine that all nato members that all e.u. members and crass, you know, the countries in between, you know, clear who have france, presse a certain western simple safe. but i'm not, let's say a member of the west attempt, such as india for example. i can see india, however, it's is just speculation. i've no inside information. i won't bite into thinking about such a, it's going to be there. i'm asking you about is and which you and i live, that policy logic because as you, i'm sure, you know, maybe the u.s. allies, most allies. i'm not democracies, be tricky. be it. saudi arabia, even poland are hungry. speaking about the e.u.

members. i mean, that's a good media look like a good idea. i'll set out tractor not. i think that's one of your allies while conspicuously ostracizing the advice is that really such a wise character had no idea. no, i don't. i'm not, i'm not here. i'm going to defend by and so invite is there not a spokesperson from us in atlanta, i'm saying what he has intended to do, and his policy or his idea probably behind it is that he wants to create great coherence in the west on pro-democratic camp and that as i said, of the beginning of a conversation has been betty freight relations and the drums as nature members and busy e.u. members, if you really deteriorated a lot so i can see by them wanting to give it a new push to make that coherence bring it about again of greater stability in transatlantic relations, in some of friendly relationships, whether that's will be successful. whether i even bill be a substantive

a summit or whether it will be just small, a symbolic summit. and i have no idea. i assume they want to make it a substantive summit, but do i know you used the words, bradley for the 2nd time, and i mean at, again, it's not a word out of their reality or at all this year or international relations. here are 2 dozen others we can use, which perhaps comes close up to what is a term like from might that nation? well, exactly, because actually, you know, when it comes to, let's say, some of the nato members, turkey, the united states and turkey. i'm not like minded at all. sure that night and evening, alexandra, he's one of the most in france or geopolitical layer in north africa. and i have no idea whether live will be invited now. but my point is that rather might rush years, trying to you visit the united states dealing with psychs deprancol partners lights right here it was, human rights record is beyond the pale,

but who has big leagues that washington really needs an american that ultimately. and that's those, they're out what the demo kristie and human rights record is all about. if you can are raspberries bally's, you know, all supposedly our lives. what's, what should be your ballot bowl? there are 1000000 arts and you wouldn't go, i wouldn't know, i wouldn't talk about it in terms of principle, so it has nothing to do with the use of democracy when you have difficulty as was turkey. but the relationship the server. no, it's not actually not allies used, but like a friendly like minded in the way certain that the relationship with turkey, if very difficult and apparently was very disappointed at the trunk wasn't reelected. this will make things hot. awful biden, of course, as you rightly say, is a very important, politically, strategically very important country, or it's a nato member. and the e.u.

countries also have the difficulties because turkey is a close neighbor also the has to get on with it. the same applies to the united states. that, of course, personally, i would hope that biden will be successful in talking to all the gum and also trying to clamp down on the trip to tone down, make him tone down. is anti human rights policies. it is so recent that you tauriel policies that will be successful. i wonder. i wonder, you know, it will be very difficult and the moment i don't know what the bike was that we know about has a last and you both know the answer. it's a good questions, means very good questions be disposed, but we out just fine. i appreciate your answer and just get you going. well, it's a promise that thank you very much for being here that no, thank you. was a pleasure and thank you for watching. i want to see you again next week on worlds apart.

during the vietnam war, u.s. forces also neighboring laos. there was a secret war. and for years the american people did not know how much it is officially. can rebound a country per capita? human history, millions of unexploded bombs still in danger lives in this small agricultural country. jordyn wieber went on to another topic. even today kids in los full victims of bombs dropped decades ago. is the u.s. making amends for the tragedy and help to the people need in that little land of

mine? or yours will pull you out of the mountains in what about and i did india. it will always be good if it off the shelf home i think keep it or don't automatically come up with a group of them have a death them and the minimum number is a number. but only a bit. if i say, what about nanami?

and it is about heresies, a new wave of civil unrest. as the french government pushes for a law, making it a criminal offense to publish. images of police was caught up in the chaos. we all cells full simply shocked out by the police, my cameraman, who robbed by offices while he was filming, while we were trying to do an interview. australian military inquiry uncovers a series of killings by the countries of forces.